Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Let's see what Josh L, Gettis, Hurt, and Compton can do. Next man up.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927650]Let's see what Josh L, Gettis, Hurt, and Compton can do. Next man up.[/quote]

You know who no one is talking about at all anymore is Eric Cook. It's like he's fallen off the face of the earth.

I'll admit to being wrong about Jammal Brown, prognosis does not look good

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927641]Lorenzo Alexander is more likely to play TE on offense now than OL[/quote]

I think he's finally sticking with defense. I did hear he is the 3rd string CB behind Wilson & Hall.

[quote=HailGreen28;927647]Ahhhh. the swiss army knife of the nfl.[/quote]

LOL ... F'ing brilliant - perfect description of him.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Another way to look at it:

Pass protection is made up of 3 elements
1)WR/TE their ability to get open run correct routes
2) QB play able to make quick decisions/scramble
3) Blocking (OL, TE, RB's shoot even WR's on some plays)

IMO the Redskins have upgraded 2 of 3 elements listed above those alone should improve our over all pass protection. To just say OL most improve only is actually very short sighted.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Why is anyone concerned about the O-line at this point. Lichtensteiger is always talked about as if he's a 3 time pro bowler. He's a journeyman that picked up the system, that's all. Hurt can step in and the left side is fine. Lichtensteiger didn't play the majority of last year and the left side was good until Wms was suspended. On the right side play, they are good with the people that played last year, Polumbus and the kid from East Carolina. No problem unless Montgomery or Wms gets hurt, the rest are kind of interchangeable. With Lerebus there now, Montgomery may be more expendable.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927652][B]You know who no one is talking about at all anymore is Eric Cook. It's like he's fallen off the face of the earth.[/B]

I'll admit to being wrong about Jammal Brown, prognosis does not look good[/quote]

He certainly didn't help himself last year when he got a shot to play. He's gotta be a longshot to make the team this year I would think.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927638]Problem is he lost about 25 lbs this offseason to play LB. He's now at 244.[/quote]

LaRon Landry's essentially out of football now. We're hire him as a PT.

Bulk up fast!

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;927654]I think he's finally sticking with defense. I did hear he is the 3rd string CB behind Wilson & Hall.



LOL ... F'ing brilliant - perfect description of him.[/quote]

He's actually competing with Gano and Rackers

Seriously though, he has been working with the TEs

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=mredskins;927655]Another way to look at it:

Pass protection is made up of 3 elements
1)WR/TE their ability to get open run correct routes
2) QB play able to make quick decisions/scramble
3) Blocking (OL, TE, RB's shoot even WR's on some plays)

IMO the Redskins have upgraded 2 of 3 elements listed above those alone should improve our over all pass protection. To just say OL most improve only is actually very short sighted.[/quote]

Yes. This. True. Word. Preach

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

:laughing2[quote=Monkeydad;927659]LaRon Landry's essentially out of football now. We're hire him as a PT.

Bulk up fast![/quote]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Lets make a list of all rostered linemen. I'm thinking we're actually deeper than we're giving ourselves credit for.


Tackles:
77 Brown, Jammal
60 Black, Jordan
74 Polumbus, Tyler
69 Smith, Willie
71 Williams, Trent
68 Compton, Tom
75 Lee, James


Guards:
66 Chester, Chris
73 Gettis, Adam
79 Hurt, Maurice
67 LeRibeus, Josh
62 Martinez, Nick
78 Lichtensteiger, Kory (G/C)


Centers:
61 Garner, Grant
58 Cook, Erik (C/G)
63 Montgomery, Will (C/G)

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;927673]Lets make a list of all rostered linemen. I'm thinking we're actually deeper than we're giving ourselves credit for.


Tackles:
77 Brown, Jammal
60 Black, Jordan
74 Polumbus, Tyler
69 Smith, Willie
71 Williams, Trent
68 Compton, Tom
75 Lee, James


Guards:
66 Chester, Chris
73 Gettis, Adam
79 Hurt, Maurice
67 LeRibeus, Josh
62 Martinez, Nick
78 Lichtensteiger, Kory (G/C)


Centers:
61 Garner, Grant
58 Cook, Erik (C/G)
63 Montgomery, Will (C/G)[/quote]

You may be correct. What is worrying, though, is how genuine that tackle depth is. SS reported above that Willie Smith has been struggling. Graziano reports here that Polumbus has been struggling. This leaves the question open regarding what kind of RT play we will get.
[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/41258/impressions-from-monday-redskins-practice]Impressions from Redskins practice - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Personally I'm not joining the sky-is-falling chorus but I am concerned a bit.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927652]You know who no one is talking about at all anymore is Eric Cook. It's like he's fallen off the face of the earth.

I'll admit to being wrong about Jammal Brown, [B]prognosis does not look good[/B][/quote]

What you hearing? Im putting the over/under at Week 6.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;927673]Lets make a list of all rostered linemen. I'm thinking we're actually deeper than we're giving ourselves credit for.


Tackles:
77 Brown, Jammal [B]Always hurt[/B]
60 Black, Jordan [B]Who?[/B]
74 Polumbus, Tyler [B]Decent Backup[/B]
69 Smith, Willie [B]Regressing and hurt [/B]
71 Williams, Trent [B]Solid starter[/B]
68 Compton, Tom [B]Unknown[/B]
75 Lee, James [B]Pu-leeze![/B]


Guards:
66 Chester, Chris [B]Average[/B]
73 Gettis, Adam [B]Unknown[/B]
79 Hurt, Maurice [B]Showed promise[/B]
67 LeRibeus, Josh [B]Unknown[/B]
62 Martinez, Nick [B]Huh?[/B]
78 Lichtensteiger, Kory (G/C) [B]Good player[/B]

Centers:
61 Garner, Grant [B]No[/B]
58 Cook, Erik (C/G) [B]Failed to impress[/B]
63 Montgomery, Will (C/G) [B]Average[/B][/quote]

Depth has never been the key to a great OL. It's 5 talented starters who can stay healthy and play together as a smooth functioning unit. We don't have that.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

The thread title reminded me of this:

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROG11XAMwcb3gFFbh9VEp8P9qzWJrIFm4DA5LBbPqSv3cJLUd8[/IMG]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927650]Let's see what Josh L, Gettis, Hurt, and Compton can do. Next man up.[/quote]

Yup. I think that's the plan and I am good with that. It's how depth is developed. Look around the league - how many solid O-Lines are built with mid to low level draft picks. Just look at those in our own division:

[B][U]DALLAS[/U][/B]:
LT: T. Smith, 1st Round*
LG: Dockery, 3rd Round (Skins)
C: Phil Costa, Undrafted.
RG: Kosier, 7th Round (San Fran)
RT: D. Free, 4th Round

[B][U]NEW YORK:[/U][/B]
LT: Dave Diehl, 5th Round
LG: Kevin Booth, 6th Round (Oakland)
C: David Baas, 2nd Round (San Fran)
RG: Chris Snee, 2nd Round
RT: Kareem McKenzie, 3rd Round (Jets)

[B][U]PHILADELPHIA:[/U][/B]
LT: Demtrius Bell, 7th Round (Buffalo)
LG: Evan Mathis, 3rd Round (Carolina)
C: Jason Kelce, 6th Round
RG: Danny Watkins, 1st Round
RT: Todd Herremans, 4th Round

*If no team indicated, player was picked by current team.

[I]Caveat - Got the starters from ESPN Depth charts with certain changges I was aware of but not reflected (D. Bell for example).[/I]

Lots of guys who have bounced around, were low picks, etc. No one in our division has more than one guy that [I]they themselves picked [/I]in the 3rd round or higher.

O-Lines come together in different ways and from different places. Just b/c we don't know who's the starter today doesn't mean someone isn't going to step up. We have lots of young bodies and Shanny has a long history of making lineman out of mid to low round picks.

Am I concerned? Sure. Do I think the sky is falling? Nope. I firmly believe that the line, while it could always improve, will be fine and that RGIII is not being guarded by a bunch of turnstiles (or even by one for that matter).

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

^^ I think the problem is depth at the tackle position and quality of starter at RT, especially depending on Smith's status.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;927632]Guys, guys, we don't need an OL, we have RGIII. His line was "terrible" at Baylor (LOL).[/quote]

He was LITERALLY blocking for himself.

[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=107997&draftyear=2012&genpos=OG]Robert T. Griffin | Baylor, OG : 2012 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/url]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Chico23231;927676]What you hearing? Im putting the over/under at Week 6.[/quote]

Reportedly working on a "waived-injured" injury settlement

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Well, that sucks. I hear what everyone is saying about the lack of talent and depth at tackle - particularly since it sounds as if the guys we were counting on to step up have actually stepped back and Brown is done.

Time for Compton to show us what a steal he was. <sigh>

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927688]Reportedly working on a "waived-injured" injury settlement[/quote]

oh. wow. ummmmm wow

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Bring back Rabach.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927693]Bring back Rabach.[/quote]

[IMG]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1063867_o.gif[/IMG]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927641]Lorenzo Alexander is more likely to play TE on offense now than OL[/quote]


If Goff handt gotten hurt i actually think we would have seen some of this.

Right now you have Cooley, Davis, Paul. We dont really know what Paul can do blocking from the bookend position, when we need help out on the line, or when we are running jumbo/goal line packages. Zo could have played a big role in some of that stuff.

Maybe part of the reason they didnt release Cooley over the weekend was that they relaized we might be asking our TE's to help out the oline early/thoughout the year a lot more than we all would like. Not tryin to rehash Cooley vs Davis blocking debate but i think the coaches view Cooley as the better blocker.

Keeping RGIII upright, healthy and confident is the most important thing this year, regardless of the cap cost.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=mlmpetert;927700]If Goff handt gotten hurt i actually think we would have seen some of this.

Right now you have Cooley, Davis, Paul. We dont really know what Paul can do blocking from the bookend position, when we need help out on the line, or when we are running jumbo/goal line packages. Zo could have played a big role in some of that stuff.

Maybe part of the reason they didnt release Cooley over the weekend was that they relaized we might be asking our TE's to help out the oline early/thoughout the year a lot more than we all would like. Not tryin to rehash Cooley vs Davis blocking debate but i think the coaches view Cooley as the better blocker.

Keeping RGIII upright, healthy and confident is the most important thing this year, regardless of the cap cost.[/quote]

I don't think so. Goff was a long shot to begin with and Zo is learning TE only for absolute emergencies

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I also thought Cooley was going to be in more of a FB/H-Back role than TE. He dropped some weight, so O-line won't work for him.

I think we're likely to see him restructure his contract to stay than being traded. Of course, there's always outright release but I'd really hate to see that.

He could have a good year, his salary vs. injury history is just hurting him.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927688]Reportedly working on a "waived-injured" injury settlement[/quote]

MRI must not be good eh

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927693]Bring back Rabach.[/quote]Surely you can't be serious.
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Nva_FLbXkbQ/TPPRq05deTI/AAAAAAAAAvw/NfXyF_St-Sc/s1600/airplane.jpg[/IMG]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;927707]Surely you can't be serious.
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Nva_FLbXkbQ/TPPRq05deTI/AAAAAAAAAvw/NfXyF_St-Sc/s1600/airplane.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Why would he joke about such a thing? Rabach is available and we do need linemen.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927688]Reportedly working on a "waived-injured" injury settlement[/quote]Thank you for the info.

Well, that stinks. Loved the idea of having Williams and Brown as "bookends" on our OL. Like Samuels and Jansen.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=mooby;927708]Why would he joke about such a thing? Rabach is available and we do need linemen.[/quote]You could pay *me* a lot less to be picked up and launched into the backfield every play. (Of course I'd have to be taught how to make protection calls on the line. And I wouldn't survive the first three downs...)

Bringing Rabach back would be worse than bringing Stephon Heyer back to fill our vacancy at RT. Casey hasn't played since we cut him. He failed a physical with the Ravens last season. He was good, but all good things...

edit: And I think Monty outplayed Rabach as a sub, against who the Titans?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927706]MRI must not be good eh[/quote]

Guess not, but it could also be a contingency plan that's being put in place for worst case scenario.

Hoping to hear something soon

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927693]Bring back Rabach.[/quote]

LOL, heck might as well suit up George Starke, his a$$ is a Redskins park more than the Shanahans.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Will be interesting to see what they can do now to bring in a player. I bet Bruce Allen and the rest of the FO would have liked to use whatever money they can recoup from JB's contract in FA this year.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Bruce and Mike have been trying to find o-linemen, we need to see what our draft picks can do, including the still developing rookies from last year. I am not hitting the panic button or indicting the Shannahans for this situation. They took a calculated gamble on Brown and Kory is still recovering. Beck's tenure as starting QB scewed the o-lines sack numbers. They were not as bad as the sack total suggests.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Personally I'm not sure what Brown would cost the team at this point but I'd cut him. He's simply taking up a roster spot and not providing enough in return. He'll never be a 16 game player.

Kory L. I thought they just gave him a night off....so what did he do come in the next day and injur himself? and Smith? I'm not in panic mode since its the beginning of camp but the team needs to look for quality back ups/starters vs. bringing in players like Black who have traveled around the league quite a lot. If he was any good someone by now would have kept him. Especially Houston and they cut him while running a similar scheme we do.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;927623]You have drugs on your mind way too much.

Anyway, Alexander HAS played O-line, so in an extreme emergency...why not? He's our 4th QB and 3rd punter too.[/quote]

No... just no. He weighs 244 now. He wouldn't have been a starter at 300.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;927725]No... just no. He weighs 244 now. He wouldn't have been a starter at 300.[/quote]

Speak no ill of Mr. Alexander. At 300 lbs., he would be starting at OG, DT and FB [I]all on the same play!![/I] (While pulling to block for himself, he would stop by the sideline to meet with the DL position coach to prep for the next defensive series).

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=mredskins;927655]Another way to look at it:

Pass protection is made up of 3 elements
1)WR/TE their ability to get open run correct routes
2) QB play able to make quick decisions/scramble
3) Blocking (OL, TE, RB's shoot even WR's on some plays)

IMO the Redskins have upgraded 2 of 3 elements listed above those alone should improve our over all pass protection. To just say OL most improve only is actually very short sighted.[/quote]Valid points.
I think you can reasonably add: scheme/play design/playcalling, blitz pick-up/coaching, pocket presence/poisepass protection, throwing motion/release time (ihow fast can the QB set-up and throw a quick pass?) are all elements of pass protection.

However the simplest and most directly impactful aspect of pass protection will always begin and end with the OL.

Sure, you can scheme and use various factors to compensate for a lack of physical ability at the point of attack.
For example *(hypothetical follows) if an OL cannot hold up in pass protection to execute 5 and 7 step drops you have to rely on 3 step drop passing game to move the ball and keep your fingers crossed and hope play-action can create time to throw deeper stuff.
Your gonna be heavily dependent upon: quick release, decision making, blitz-pick/reading coverage (coaching), scheme playcalling to create effective play-action chances and to get WRs open in the short passing game etc.
But, those 5 and 7 step drop pass plays have effectively been removed from your playbook by the OL and there is literally nothing you can do about it unless you get new OL.

Does that mean a team can't work around it and find a way to win? No.
But, it certainly makes the job more difficult because it limits [I][B]how[/B][/I] they can win.
It would be much easier if that team had adequate pass protection to use 5 and 7 step drop passing game.

So while Griff and Garcon co. indirectly improve the pass protection.
It won't matter if the pass protection doesn't hold up.
At the end of the day the best way and most impactful way to improve pass protection is to actually have players that can win at the point of attack.
Hopefully we have some OL that will be equal to the task.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;927693]Bring back Rabach.[/quote]

Might as well put a shaggy carpet in the o-line...at least with the carpet, there's a chance that a player might trip.