Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903116]It doesn't sound like it. But then again all I have to go by is statments like:


To hear shit like the above is very troubling...and people pretending this has nothing to do with race and ignoring police conduct is even more troubling. The truth is self-evident and race is written all over this case whether you want to see it or not.[/quote]

Re-read both of your examples, if you don't mind, and highlight the part where it mentions race. Both mention age.

Police conduct notwithstanding, where are you seeing people 'pretending' that it's not about race? We are addressing the race issue not ignoring it.

I think you have issues.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;903121]Re-read both of your examples, if you don't mind, and highlight the part where it mentions race. Both mention age.

Police conduct notwithstanding, where are you seeing people 'pretending' that it's not about race? We are addressing the race issue not ignoring it.

I think you have issues.[/quote]


You damn right I have issues and why shouldn't? Police conduct notwithstanding? Are we side stepping race as an issue when it comes to police conduct?


All you do is stick your head in the sand and say race isn't an issue but you never once mentioned why it isn't.

[QUOTE=los panda;903095]"see a black man coolin' with a mexican
we can all have peace on the sets again"

*edit
2 high fives to anyone who can identify that quote/song without research[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, I may be wrong. But I'm thinking Kam - Peace Treaty


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=itvnetop;903129]Hmmm, I may be wrong. But I'm thinking Kam - Peace Treaty


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD[/quote]one high five for a good guess

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903128]You damn right I have issues and why shouldn't? Police conduct notwithstanding? Are we side stepping race as an issue when it comes to police conduct? [/quote]

I'm not even getting to the Police conduct in this, I was just commenting on the initial Vigilante Vs. Kid scenario.

[quote=saden1;903128]All you do is stick your head in the sand and say race isn't an issue but you never once mentioned why it isn't.[/quote]

Because I think the shooter would have used another unpleasant descriptive for any color kid he thought was up to no good.

So just to confirm: You didn't find a reference to race in either quotes you posted, did you?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=itvnetop;903129]Hmmm, I may be wrong. But I'm thinking Kam - Peace Treaty


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD[/quote]

Don't slip...or you'll trip and you'll fall

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;903145]I'm not even getting to the Police conduct in this, I was just commenting on the initial Vigilante Vs. Kid scenario.



Because I think the shooter would have used another unpleasant descriptive for any color kid he thought was up to no good.

So just to confirm: You didn't find a reference to race in either quotes you posted, did you?[/quote]

Do you not understand the implications of saying "drop the race angle" after calling Trayvon a "mouthy teenager."

You are beyond odious...you can't possibly believe you can mask your stench. What you said is uncalled for and doesn't jive with the facts.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903159]Do you not understand the implications of saying "drop the race angle" after calling Trayvon a "mouthy teenager."[/quote]

Please join the dots for me. Is Trayvon incapable of being a mouthy teenager for some reason I'm not aware of?

[quote=saden1;903159]You are beyond odious...you can't possibly believe you can mask your stench. What you said is uncalled for and doesn't jive with the facts.[/quote]

Keep the insults coming, it's amusing that you have so little control that you can't hold a conversation without getting excited.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903128]You damn right I have issues and why shouldn't? [B]Police conduct notwithstanding[/B]? Are we side stepping race as an issue when it comes to police conduct?


All you do is stick your head in the sand and say race isn't an issue but you never once mentioned why it isn't.[/quote]

You don't know what evidence the cops do or don't have so your assuming alot with what your saying about the cops. That's not different then someone assuming the kid was mouthy teen.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Isn't calling this 17 year old a "mouthy teenager" the same type of profiling that Zimmerman was doing? (sketchy/on drugs)


Sounds like to me that the kid was minding his own business, not bothering anybody. Some mouth breather guy "wanna be cop" decided to take action after he was told to stand down and to not pursue. I don't know about you, but if I'm rolling down the street or through a neighborhood and somebody rolls up on me like Zimmerman did this kid, chances are I would be defending myself.

The fact Zimmerman is claiming "self defense" is a farce. If anything, the kid was defending himself from a vigilante. No way this guy should be walking the street today. That said, I'm not surprised seeing how shitty Florida's judicial system is.


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-stallworth052109]Stallworth may escape manslaughter charge - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[url=http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-06-04/news/fl-ryan-levin-change-plea-20110603-30_1_kirsty-watkinson-house-arrest-oceanfront-condo]Ryan LeVin: Porsche hit-and-run killer avoids prison time - Sun Sentinel[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501368_162-57403478/foxs-rivera-fla-teens-hoodie-had-role-in-death/]Fox's Rivera: Fla. teen's hoodie had role in death - CBS News[/url]

Can someone please take Geraldo out of the gene pool. So I have 3-4 hoodies, Im I seriously menacing? Hoodies are like top wear for hipster and emo kids, too blame the hoodie is seriously missing the point completely. The only thing menacing in a hoodie is Darth Hoodie.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=NC_Skins;903197]Isn't calling this 17 year old a "mouthy teenager" the same type of profiling that Zimmerman was doing?[URL="http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-06-04/news/fl-ryan-levin-change-plea-20110603-30_1_kirsty-watkinson-house-arrest-oceanfront-condo"][/URL][/quote]

Yes. I stated earlier that most kids that age that I know or come into contact with are yappy as all get out. Unlike Zimmerman I refrain from shooting them though.

I may just be [I]'lucky'[/I] that I live in an area that is renowned for spoilt brats, wannabe gang bangers and actual, very dangerous, nothing to lose, real gang bangers. All yappy.

The nice, well-spoken teenager is a rarity.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;903208][URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501368_162-57403478/foxs-rivera-fla-teens-hoodie-had-role-in-death/"]Fox's Rivera: Fla. teen's hoodie had role in death - CBS News[/URL]

Can someone please take Geraldo out of the gene pool. So I have 3-4 hoodies, Im I seriously menacing? Hoodies are like top wear for hipster and emo kids, too blame the hoodie is seriously missing the point completely. The only thing menacing in a hoodie is Darth Hoodie.[/quote]

Geraldo has less credibility than I do.

I'm wearing a black 5/48 hoodie as I post, not even kidding.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=NC_Skins;903197]Isn't calling this 17 year old a "mouthy teenager" the same type of profiling that Zimmerman was doing? (sketchy/on drugs)


Sounds like to me that the kid was minding his own business, not bothering anybody. Some mouth breather guy "wanna be cop" decided to take action after he was told to stand down and to not pursue. I don't know about you, but if I'm rolling down the street or through a neighborhood and somebody rolls up on me like Zimmerman did this kid, chances are I would be defending myself.

The fact Zimmerman is claiming "self defense" is a farce. If anything, the kid was defending himself from a vigilante. No way this guy should be walking the street today. That said, I'm not surprised seeing how shitty Florida's judicial system is.


[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-stallworth052109"]Stallworth may escape manslaughter charge - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL]

[URL="http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-06-04/news/fl-ryan-levin-change-plea-20110603-30_1_kirsty-watkinson-house-arrest-oceanfront-condo"]Ryan LeVin: Porsche hit-and-run killer avoids prison time - Sun Sentinel[/URL][/quote]
I agree that Zimmerman should not be walking the street but thinking something and proving it are two different stories.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;903210]Yes. I stated earlier that most kids that age that I know or come into contact with are yappy as all get out. Unlike Zimmerman I refrain from shooting them though.

I may just be [I]'lucky'[/I] that I live in an area that is renowned for spoilt brats, wannabe gang bangers and actual, very dangerous, nothing to lose, real gang bangers. All yappy.

[B]The nice, well-spoken teenager is a rarity[/B].[/quote]

You need to move. The teens I meet are nice, well spoken its a rarity they are somting else.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;903172]Please join the dots for me. Is Trayvon incapable of being a mouthy teenager for some reason I'm not aware of?



Keep the insults coming, it's amusing that you have so little control that you can't hold a conversation without getting excited.[/quote]

Since you are incapable let me break it down for you:

[quote][B]Over zealous curtain-twitcher meets mouthy teenager[/B].

Drop the race angle. [/quote]This is a classic case of False Equivalence fallacy.

[quote]False Equivalence is a logical fallacy which describes a situation where there is a logical and apparent equivalence, but when in fact there is none.[/quote]Your statement regarding Zimmerman and Trayvon implicitly implies that they were both to blame for this tragedy when in fact the only person to blame is Zimmerman. With your stupid remark what you are really saying is "if only Trayvon wasn't a loud mouth maybe he could have survived this assailant."

Let's also not forget the fact that you purposefully downplayed race as a possible factor by staying we should drop it without a single justification as to why we should. You've also managed to wiggle your way out having to talk about what is clearly police misconduct in this case. I would love to hear you justified and explained their conduct without race being a factor.

With every shitty post you put together so far all you have manage to say is "shit happens." Your cowardice won't even allow you to bring yourself to say that "race" may have been a factor and justice has not been served.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=firstdown;903183]You don't know what evidence the cops do or don't have so your assuming alot with what your saying about the cops. That's not different then someone assuming the kid was mouthy teen.[/quote]


The evidence is out there.

[quote][I]Man stalks "suspcious" looking little black boy that that doesn't seem to fit in the neighborhood.

Man calls 911 to report it.

911 dispatcher tells man to stay away from the boy until police get there.

Man follows little black boy despite being told to stay away.

Scuffle ensues and little black boy end up getting shot and dies.

Police arrive and make no arrest and side with the assailant.

There was no attempt to find out who the boy was.

Police take Trayvon Martin's body and stored it in a morgue for three days and label him as John Doe.

When the family asked why Zimmerman had not been arrested, the police responded that he had a "squeaky-clean record" and they respected his educational background in criminal justice.

Zimmerman had a previous charge in 2005 of battery on a police officer while interfering with the arrest of a friend.

[/I][/quote]If you're telling me I don't have enough evidence to form a judgment about this case then on what grounds can you the vile shit that you said about Trayvon? I just hope what happen to Trayvon doesn't happen to your little girl. I know very well if it was her that was murdered you wouldn't appreciate me coming out and saying "she isn't as innocent as they are making her out to be."

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903220]Since you are incapable let me break it down for you:

This is a classic case of False Equivalence fallacy.[/quote]

M'kay.....I think we haven't heard all the facts yet.

[quote=saden1;903220] Your statement regarding Zimmerman and Trayvon implicitly implies that they were both to blame for this tragedy when in fact the only person to blame is Zimmerman.[/quote]

That's YOUR interpretation of MY statement.

[quote=saden1;903220]With your stupid remark what you are really saying is "if only Trayvon wasn't a loud mouth maybe he could have survived this assailant."[/quote]

Again, YOUR interpretation of MY statement, clouded by your rabid need for 'justice'. I'll repeat: I have as a personal example a majority of yappy teens, that's my experience, that's what I have to go on.

[quote=saden1;903220]Let's also not forget the fact that you purposefully downplayed race as a possible factor by staying we should drop it without a single justification as to why it was not.[/quote]

Putting aside the race factor, which is currently being worked by interested parties for all it's worth, would allow the basic facts to be seen. Then you can explore the race aspect.


[quote=saden1;903220]You've also managed to wiggle your way out having to talk about what is clearly police misconduct this case that can't be justified or explained without attributing race to it.[/quote]

I said it put it aside as it's another confusion to the case. Including it at the beginning of the Vigilante Vs. Kid doesn't help clarify anything.

[quote=saden1;903220]With every shitty post you put together so far all you have manage to say is "shit happens." Your cowardice won't even allow you to bring yourself to say that "race" may have been a factor and justice has not been served.[/quote]

That's YOUR interpretation, basically because you're too riled up to think straight. I mentioned before that you should calm down before you post, you just make yourself look really childish.

'[I]Coward[/I]'......<rolls_eyes>

Keep it coming.:laughing2

Wasn't one man Hispanic and the other black?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;903235]Wasn't one man Hispanic and the other black?[/quote]

According to all the reports, yes. Why?

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;903238]According to all the reports, yes. Why?[/QUOTE]

Well because I've seen people on Facebook and other sites say it was white and black

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;903227]The evidence is out there.

If you're telling me I don't have enough evidence to form a judgment about this case then on what grounds can you the vile shit that you said about Trayvon? I just hope what happen to Trayvon doesn't happen to your little girl. I know very well if it was her that was murdered you wouldn't appreciate me coming out and saying "she isn't as innocent as they are making her out to be."[/quote]

So saying someone might not be as innocent[B] little boy[/B] they make him out to be is now vile shit? I also said I think the guy had also murdered him in the same post.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=firstdown;903240]So saying someone might not be as innocent as they make him out to be is now vile shit?[/quote]

Yes, especially in this instance. What is Trayvon guilty of if he isn't innocent? Walking at night? Wearing a a hoodie? Being black? Being in the wrong neighborhood? What exactly gives you the impression that he is guilty?


You guys disgust me. I'm done talking about this case.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=firstdown;903240]So saying someone might not be as innocent[B] little boy[/B] they make him out to be is now vile shit? I also said I think the guy had also murdered him in the same post.[/quote]

Once someone gets as incoherent as saden1 has it'll be a few days before we'll get any sense out of him.

I don't think anyone has said that the shooter was right but there should be a process, not just a bunch of angry villagers carry pitchforks and baying for blood.

I'm listening to 2 Live Crew and signing along, that probably makes me a racist.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;903239]Well because I've seen people on Facebook and other sites say it was white and black[/quote]

I've heard "white hispanic". Apparently he's bi-racial, (obvious by the last name Zimmerman) half white, half hispanic. Which basically means, consider how our society works.... He's Hispanic.

As I've read more into the case since I made the thread, the whole thing reeks of racial profiling. And I'm kind of happy that the family went over the head of the police department, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I especially feel awful for the kid's girlfriend, who he was on the phone with seconds before he died. That's gotta be some kinda traumatizing.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=firstdown;903240]So saying someone might not be as innocent[B] little boy[/B] they make him out to be is now vile shit? I also said I think the guy had also murdered him in the same post.[/quote]

Until information comes out saying he was doing otherwise, he's innocent in my mind. I can understand if he had some awful upbringing or if people said he was some gang banging, gun-toting, thug. But by all accounts so far, he seemed to be a kid minding his own business, never provoked Zimmerman in any way and who actually was trying to go somewhere in life.

Though contrary to popular belief, not all 16-21 year old young men are some mouthy hoodlums. I dunno man, its like some of you all wanted the kid to be a heathen.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I've listened to the call, read through a bunch of accounts of the kids' character and also the shooter and I'd say that given the additional information the shooter had an issue with what he perceived (as I far as it's been reported) as a troublemaker kid.

First and foremost it's clearly murder, second, what the police did is reprehensible beyond belief, thirdly the lack of immediate response from the locals (aside from one lady witness who made repeated attempts to clarify the situation to law enforcement and was spurned) is disgusting.

Still not sold on the race aspect, possibly because I don't want race to be an issue. I'm not racist, never have been. Can't understand why anyone is.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I have to weigh in here. I've read just about everything i can on this issue, watched it all on TV, etc.. A couple of things stand out to me...

George Zimmerman was well respected and very liked by his neighborhood. Neighbors that were going out of town for a few days would ask Zimmerman to watch out for their place, etc..

He was a good neighbor and people felt safe from his actions to lead their neighborhood watch. He called police dozens upon dozens of times over the years, leading to the police making some arrests, etc.. He would call and alert them about all kinds of things, cars driving slow and stopping in front of houses, people on foot looking in windows, etc...

I think the media has turned this into a race issue when it was apparant that the incident was not motivated by race. Zimmerman himself is hispanic.

It will be tough to prove anything in court one way or the other because witness statements contradict each other. Some say they saw Zimmerman being attacked, others say they only saw Zimmeran standing over Martin's body, offering no help, etc...

Zimmerman was injured at the time of the shooting, suffering a broken nose and a gash on the back of his head. He was injured some how, and I do not believe some of the stories where they say he injured himself.

No winner in this case, regardless of decision. Martin sadly will remain dead, either way. If Zimmerman is convicted, you'll have many people say that Florida's "Stand your ground" law doesn't protect you, etc...

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;903260]Until information comes out saying he was doing otherwise, [I]he's innocent in my mind[/I].[/quote]

Lest we forget, under the law and until proven otherwise, so is Zimmerman.

[quote=DynamiteRave;903260]I can understand if he had some awful upbringing or if people said he was some gang banging, gun-toting, thug. But [B]by all accounts so far, he seemed to be a kid minding his own business, never provoked Zimmerman in any way[/B] and who actually was trying to go somewhere in life.

Though contrary to popular belief, not all 16-21 year old young men are some mouthy hoodlums. I dunno man, its like some of you all wanted the kid to be a heathen.[/quote]

See, from every thing I have read there is absolutely no evidence to indicate whether Zimmerman or Martin initiated the physical confrontation. Lots of speculation and conjecture, but no proof one way or the other.

The owner of the property where Martin was shot said he saw the two men in an physical altercation. You can believe Martin was minding his own business, but, to [I]convict Zimmerman of murder[/I], you need proof that he initiated the physical confrontation [I]or[/I] shot an immobilized Martin. If there is only evidence that they were in a physical confrontation, and lacking evidence that Zimmerman disabled Martin and [I]then[/I] shot him, I don't see evidence of murder.

It's bad all around but, unless pitchforks and mob rule are to replace due process, I don't see how you can convict, or even indict, Zimmerman for murder at this point.

People can believe what they want, race was an issue, Martin was a good kid minding his own business, but based on the facts that have actually come to light, I don't think enough evidence exists to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;903260]Until information comes out saying he was doing otherwise, [I]he's innocent in my mind[/I].[/quote]

Lest we forget, under the law and until proven otherwise, so is Zimmerman.

[quote=DynamiteRave;903260]I can understand if he had some awful upbringing or if people said he was some gang banging, gun-toting, thug. But [B]by all accounts so far, he seemed to be a kid minding his own business, never provoked Zimmerman in any way[/B] and who actually was trying to go somewhere in life.

Though contrary to popular belief, not all 16-21 year old young men are some mouthy hoodlums. I dunno man, its like some of you all wanted the kid to be a heathen.[/quote]

See, from every thing I have read there is absolutely no evidence to indicate whether Zimmerman or Martin initiated the physical confrontation. Lots of speculation and conjecture, but no proof one way or the other.

The owner of the property where Martin was shot said he saw the two men in an physical altercation. You can believe Martin was minding his own business, but, to [I]convict Zimmerman of murder[/I], you need proof that he initiated the physical confrontation [I]or[/I] shot an immobilized Martin. If there is only evidence that they were in a physical confrontation, and lacking evidence that Zimmerman disabled Martin and [I]then[/I] shot him, I don't see evidence of murder.

It's bad all around but, unless pitchforks and mob rule are to replace due process, I don't see how you can convict, or even indict, Zimmerman for murder at this point.

People can believe what they want, race was an issue, Martin was a good kid minding his own business, but based on the facts that have actually come to light, I don't think enough evidence exists to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

You posted the same thing twice 15 minutes apart? How does that happen? Usually a double post like that is unintentional.

Also, as much as I believe Zimmerman should be convicted of murder, if not manslaughter at the least, if there's no evidence or witness accounts proving anything than JR is right and Zimmerman will be free. It's not right but evidence is paramount, and I don't think they have any in this case.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I was editing the remark and got called away. I came back (15 mins. later) and hit submit and, rather than editing the prior remark, it double posted. I probably did something wrong.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

has anyone seen a photo of martin at age 17? just curious. i think the most popular one w the media, w the hollister shirt, is several years old

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326,0,2228143,full.story]Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=los panda;903949]has anyone seen a photo of martin at age 17? just curious. i think the most popular one w the media, w the hollister shirt, is several years old[/quote]

Yes if the pics I saw were him he had gold teeth and a few tats. There was one floating around which was not real. I have to believe there is a reason there are no currents pics of him.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I'm wondering how long it takes for this to become a push for CCTV like we have in Europe.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=los panda;903949]has anyone seen a photo of martin at age 17? just curious. i think the most popular one w the media, w the hollister shirt, is several years old[/quote]

heres some pics:

[url=http://a12iggymom.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer/]Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer? | a12iggymom's Blog[/url]

Also ive heard the photo of Martin in the hoodie was airbrushed to make him look "softer".

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=mlmpetert;903996]heres some pics:

[url=http://a12iggymom.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer/]Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer? | a12iggymom's Blog[/url]

Also ive heard the photo of Martin in the hoodie was airbrushed to make him look "softer".[/quote]

This is indeed fact. Just read it today. The photo of him that is on all the billboards and signs is the photoshopped one.

Current photos of him portray a vastly different looking individual. Tattoos, gold teeth. One web site said he had some kind of tattoo on his cheek that the airbrushing removed...

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;903998]This is indeed fact. Just read it today. The photo of him that is on all the billboards and signs is the photoshopped one.

Current photos of him portray a vastly different looking individual. Tattoos, gold teeth. One web site said he had some kind of tattoo on his cheek that the airbrushing removed...[/quote]

I have to say that doesn't make him a bad kid nor Zimmerman a racist.

There is now a hint of cynical exploitation to this event that, should it prove to be true, would set race relations back a few decades.

I'm also not a big fan of happy capering during a solemn (I would guess) event like a walk [I]in memoriam, [/I]although I could have posted this in 'Grind my gears'

So a kid with tattoos and gold teeth is a gangster? Or a drugdealer? I'm pretty sure if this dude was a true gangster he wouldn't have had just iced tea and skittles on him right? I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong in this case but in all fairness most 18 year old s want to act hard that's just the way it is in today's world.