Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;895434]If A Robinson WR makes the squad he will be the burner we need IMO.[/quote]Aldrick Robinson is a good pick as a deep sleeper to make an impact this year.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Paintrain;895427]Now that we've solved the QB issue, our #1 priority is at WR.[/quote]

I think it would be nice to upgrade the WR spot but I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see it as a [I][B]need[/B][/I]?

Gaffney had one of, if not, his most productive seasons.
I haven't heard too much about Hankerson's injury but I'm gonna assume he's coming back 100% healthy.
There are a finite number of targets and I don't want to hinder/stall the development of Hankerson by burrying him on the depth chart where he'll struggle to get 1st/2nd team practice reps much less game targets.

If you agree that injuries and a long ball challenged QB had a negative effect on the production of Moss and Armstong then its not unreasonable to view them as players talented enough put up these numbers:

Armstrong: 44 rec 871 yards 19.8 YPC

Moss: 93 catches for 1115 yards (both top 10)

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;895332]Maybe Indy picks RGIII and we end up with Luck, you never know. I say trade the 3rd, one of the 4th rounders and add Hall to move into the 2nd round and pick a CB, S, OL or WR whatever looks best in that round.[/quote]

After all that we gave up to move 4 spots in the 1st and you are sitting here suggesting we trade yet more picks to move up in the second? You should be kicked in the nuts for even thinking such a thought.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;895352]I'd like to see them approach it aggressively. Not reckless.

I would sign these players to relatively large money deals:

S LaRon Landry[/quote]

The irony in this is overwhelming. You don't want them to approach it recklessly, but you want them to give LL a large money deal? :doh:

NOTHING. I mean NOTHING that LL has done in the course of his career deserves any sort of big money. As lame as the Pro-Bowl is, the guy couldn't even get voted into one of those...lol

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;895442]After all that we gave up to move 4 spots in the 1st and you are sitting here suggesting we trade yet more picks to move up in the second?[B] You should be kicked in the nuts for even thinking such a thought.[/B][/quote]


Classic, I can't stop laughing. :laughing2

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;895442]After all that we gave up to move 4 spots in the 1st and you are sitting here suggesting we trade yet more picks to move up in the second? You should be kicked in the nuts for even thinking such a thought.[/quote]

If you want an impact player such as a S or CB or G, then you should. i would much rather have a 2nd rounder talent than 3rd and it would be our second 4th rounder, plus Hall who is shit. So don't get your panties bunched up on your nuticles!!

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

One person 1st round talent is another person's 3rd talent. There's diamonds in the ruff out there we just need to find them.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

have to agree, trying to move into the 2nd for no real reason (who are you targetting? from what i gather the whole trade up seemed pretty vague) seems like a waste... and then you'd have to replace hall too, so even at best its a lateral move.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=That Guy;895448]have to agree, trying to move into the 2nd for no real reason (who are you targetting? from what i gather the whole trade up seemed pretty vague) seems like a waste... and then you'd have to replace hall too, so even at best its a lateral move.[/quote]

There could be a starting caliber S or CB if there isn't then you don't. As for Hall, he gets replaced with say a Brandon carr or Terrell Thomas and draft a young CB.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Lotus;895373]Draft:
3rd Brian Quick WR App. St.
4th Nate Potter OT Boise St.
4th Brandon Taylor SS LSU
5th BPA
6th BPA
7th BPA[/quote]

I like this scenario.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Sign VJ
Sign Brandon Carr

3rd round Markelle Martin FS OkSt
4th Nate Potter OT Boise St.
4th Ryan Broyles WR OU
5th Vontaze Burfict Headcase ILB ASU
7th Gannaway RB Baylor
7th Joe Looney OG Wake Forest

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

The priority now for the redskins should be on offense and to give RGIII an environment where he can succeed. There was a big investment to attain the rights to him- there needs to be more invested in trying to get a playmaking wr to make sure the redskins dont waste what they gave up for RGIII. An nfl offense and qb is limited without a playmaking wideout.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

My FA Wishlist..

1. Grubbs
2. Vjax and Garcon
3. Finnegan or Griffin.. I don't see Carr coming
4. Re sign Fletch

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36854/timing-was-a-key-to-redskins-big-deal]Timing was a key to Redskins' big deal - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;895459]My FA Wishlist..

1. Grubbs
2. Vjax and Garcon
3. Finnegan or Griffin.. I don't see Carr coming
4. Re sign Fletch[/quote]

i wouldve liked Griffin or Branch at safety but both are tagged. I dont see an option in FA for safety im hoping we draft one in the 3rd

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;895442]After all that we gave up to move 4 spots in the 1st and you are sitting here suggesting we trade yet more picks to move up in the second? You should be kicked in the nuts for even thinking such a thought.[/quote]

Pretty much.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;895468]i wouldve liked Griffin or Branch at safety but both are tagged. I dont see an option in FA for safety im hoping we draft one in the 3rd[/quote]

sorry meant CB Griffin

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Z-Gaffney

TE-Davis

LT-Williams
LG-Lichtenstieger
C-Monty
RG-Chester/Hurt
RT- [B][COLOR="olive"]Demetrius Bell[/COLOR][/B]/edit:Reggie Smith to Willie Smith (thanks NYC)

Y-Moss

Z-Hankerson

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=30gut;895474]Z-Gaffney

TE-Davis

LT-Williams
LG-Lichtenstieger
C-Monty
RG-Chester/Hurt
RT- [B][COLOR="olive"]Demetrius Bell[/COLOR][/B[B]]/Reggie Smith[/B]

Y-Moss

Z-Hankerson[/quote]

Who's Reggie Smith.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;895490]Who's Reggie Smith.[/quote]

former Boomer Sooner of course.... Actually he's AVG at best in the NFL

Oh... Nm IDK that one lol

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Anyone think dejon gomes will start

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Drewsky27;895496]Anyone think dejon gomes will start[/quote]

There's a good chance IMO. He didn't play badly last year - he just needed more seasoning. Even more, a better guy will be hard to come by, since safeties are not growing on trees either in FA or the draft.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

I just watched channel 8 news , and they said that a redskin source said the team is working on another trade and hopes to finalize it in the next day or two ..... anybody have any insight ? I looked on the news8 and wjla7 web page/s and found nothing more ?

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tyM7HviJXEYE7RwHaKd8kFZtO4Mkpirmn2pbBVciEXQg8bFG[/IMG]

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=dmek25;895509][IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tyM7HviJXEYE7RwHaKd8kFZtO4Mkpirmn2pbBVciEXQg8bFG[/IMG][/quote]
Nice to see RG111 is already a redskins Park working out :)

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=budw38;895512]Nice to see RG111 is already a redskins Park working out :)[/quote]

Hopefully he's taking snaps from under center to get that down pat.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=budw38;895507]I just watched channel 8 news , and they said that a redskin source said the team is working on another trade and hopes to finalize it in the next day or two ..... anybody have any insight ? I looked on the news8 and wjla7 web page/s and found nothing more ?[/quote]

Moving back into the second round?

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Im all for picking Vincent Jackson. with moss/gaffney/Hankerson behind him we should be fine. We just need to find a starting right tackle somehow and improve overall depth on the line and this offense could be great.

if we bring fletcher back than we have a top 10 defense to pair it with.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=bigm29;895519]Im all for picking Vincent Jackson. with moss/gaffney/Hankerson behind him we should be fine. We just need to find a starting right tackle somehow and improve overall depth on the line and this offense could be great.

if we bring fletcher back than we have a top 10 defense to pair it with.[/quote]i'm so excited about jarvis jenkins. if we bring our defensive fas back, i really view safety as the only area in need of an upgrade

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=30gut;895441]I think it would be nice to upgrade the WR spot but I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see it as a [I][B]need[/B][/I]?

Gaffney had one of, if not, his most productive seasons.
I haven't heard too much about Hankerson's injury but I'm gonna assume he's coming back 100% healthy.
There are a finite number of targets and I don't want to hinder/stall the development of Hankerson by burrying him on the depth chart where he'll struggle to get 1st/2nd team practice reps much less game targets.

[B]If you agree that injuries and a long ball challenged QB had a negative effect on the production of Moss and Armstong then its not unreasonable to view them as players talented enough put up these numbers:[/B]

Armstrong: 44 rec 871 yards 19.8 YPC

Moss: 93 catches for 1115 yards (both top 10)[/quote]
Well maybe that's where we differ. I don't think injuries and Grossman made a huge impact on our WR production last year, I just think we didn't have much talent there. You mentioned Gaffney who had a career season, you're right..at 31 years old. There's very limited upside there. I don't think he will match those numbers and really doubt he will ever exceed them.

Moss's numbers were impacted by his injuries, true, but when he was healthy he wasn't explosive, didn't threaten defenses and dropped way too many passes. I just think he's pretty much done. He had a great 2010 but for what we are paying him, he needs to replicate those numbers and I don't think he's still capable to do so.

I don't think Armstrong, Banks, Austin, Paul, Stallworth or Robinson are anything special. I'd like to keep Paul around because he may develop into a James Thrash type and Robinson for depth and maybe he develops into a deep threat. If we only returned Gaffney, Hankerson & Paul I would be perfectly ok with that.

In the red zone we have no targets from our WR corp. Hankerson is 'big' by our standards but he's barely 6'2, not a huge target and he's unproven. I think he will be a good player, perhaps very good but he will develop better with more threats around him.

I don't think we need a 'splash' player here.. I'd be thrilled with Garcon & Royal or Meachem. We've got enough other holes to fill we don't need to go crazy at this position but it does need significant focus.

I'll be happy if opening day features:
Garcon/Meachem
Hankerson
Royal
Gaffney
Paul
Draft pick or Robinson

I'd also be fine if we signed Jackson, but I don't think it would be our best use of the money..

Since this is already long, might as well tack on a few more thoughts:
-Forget Nicks and Grubbs.. They are not good scheme fits nor is it like Shanny to pay big money to interior linemen. More than likely is someone from Houston (Myers or Briesel) who knows the scheme and can solidify the middle with Steiger and Chester..
-Don't be surprised to see us add a feature type back in FA or in the 3rd round. What about Helu?? Shanny has called him on a few occassions a nice change of pace back and he wasn't really drafted to be a 250-300 carry guy. He's not built for that..
-After WR is taken care of, RT is the next big fill.. Anthony Collins or Levi Brown could be a big play here.. If they fix this spot, our offense could take a big leap..
-Don't be shocked if Fletcher doesn't return. He's looking to get PAID and we may be able to get close to his production and save about 10 years. It would suck to lose him but if the defense can get younger for the same price without a huge dropoff it's the smart thing to do.
-While I'd love Terrell Thomas, it's more likely we're looking for nickel type backs than a starter. Just spent big on Wilson last year and Hall will be tough to release. They will probably go with the logic if the offense is better, the secondary will improve because teams will have to throw more and create turnover opportunities.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Lotus;895500]There's a good chance IMO. He didn't play badly last year - he just needed more seasoning. Even more, a better guy will be hard to come by, since safeties are not growing on trees either in FA or the draft.[/quote]

there's tons in FA. they're all just average players though:

Atari Bigby - 35 starts - last good year - 2007/2009
Erik Coleman - 81 starts - last good year -2004-2006, 2008-2009
Sean Considine - 28 starts - 2006
Deon Grant - 161 starts - 2011ish - consistant
Chris Hope - 109 starts - 2010
Jim Leonhard - 60 starts - 2010
Brandon Meriweather - 44 starts - 2010
Reggie Nelson - 64 starts - 2011
Brodney Pool - 67 starts - 2009
Bob Sanders - 48 starts - 2007 - WOW on the injuries... never there
Madieu Williams - 86 starts - 2010
Gibril Wilson - 81 starts - 2010


I believe all those guys have multiple years as a starter.
I'd try out merriweather, nelson, maybe grant, hope, or wilson. grab 2-3 and hope one works out. most of them will be stupid cheap.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

levi brown is an oaf (not athletic enough) and he'll be too expensive. i think harris is the better option.

i agree that meachem and robinson (well, laurent robinson) would be great guys to have on opening day (and CHEAP compared to VJ).

don't get me wrong, VJ would be great if his production doesn't fall off a cliff during his next contract AND if his contract isn't so big that it precludes us from fixing our RT/CB holes which i think are bigger issues.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=That Guy;895525]there's tons in FA. they're all just average players though:

Atari Bigby - 35 starts - last good year - 2007/2009
Erik Coleman - 81 starts - last good year -2004-2006, 2008-2009
Sean Considine - 28 starts - 2006
Deon Grant - 161 starts - 2011ish - consistant
Chris Hope - 109 starts - 2010
Jim Leonhard - 60 starts - 2010
Brandon Meriweather - 44 starts - 2010
Reggie Nelson - 64 starts - 2011
Brodney Pool - 67 starts - 2009
Bob Sanders - 48 starts - 2007 - WOW on the injuries... never there
Madieu Williams - 86 starts - 2010
Gibril Wilson - 81 starts - 2010


I believe all those guys have multiple years as a starter.
I'd try out merriweather, nelson, maybe grant, hope, or wilson. grab 2-3 and hope one works out. most of them will be stupid cheap.[/quote]

I agree that there is a bunch of safeties. But the issue I mentioned concerned whether they really were all that good. The list you gave is an impressive list of "just a guy."

It may be that Shanny sees Gomes as potentially more than "just a guy."

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Ryan Harris has come up several times in this and other threads, but he isn't a Free Agent.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;895425]we need a burner for RG3's bombs. and a safety, we are in a bad spot there when laron leaves, i dont trust gomes, and theres not many good safetys on the market. i think we need to draft one in the 3rd.[/quote]

This draft has been noted by alot of people to be the weakest Safety draft in 10 years.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=44Deezel;895516]Moving back into the second round?[/quote]

Uh oh....someone is going to get kicked in the nuts.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;895579]Uh oh....someone is going to get kicked in the nuts.[/quote]

[YT]hGd48K1WByc[/YT]

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

BTW-Good post, I agree with a lot of what you wrote and understand and agree with many of your points.
But forgive how unseemly this post looks.
I though I should respond to the separate points you made to prevent them from being all jumbled together.

[quote=Paintrain;895523]Well maybe that's where we differ. I don't think injuries and Grossman made a huge impact on our WR production last year, I just think we didn't have much talent there. You mentioned Gaffney who had a career season, you're right..at 31 years old. There's very limited upside there. I don't think he will match those numbers and really doubt he will ever exceed them.[/quote]Grossman was dead last in the NFL throwing past 20 yards with a passer rating of 25.8.
Undoubted Rex had a negative effective on the production of the WRs.
Armstrong went from 19.8 YPC for close to 800 yards to virtually nothing.

I agree that there is limited upside to Gaffney, didn't imply that there was upside nor that he would match or exceed his numbers.
But, the fact remains that he was productive in this offense.


[quote]Moss's numbers were impacted by his injuries, true, but when he was healthy he wasn't explosive, didn't threaten defenses and dropped way too many passes. I just think he's pretty much done. He had a great 2010 but for what we are paying him, he needs to replicate those numbers and I don't think he's still capable to do so.[/quote]Explosive is subjective, Moss has been used a lot in the slot therefore his deep chances have gone down.
Tana's 'drops' have always been overstated.

Just 2 years ago Tana was top 10 in catches then he breaks his [I][B]hand[/B][/I] and he's done? I just don't follow that logic.

Wouldn't you agree that breaking a hand is a major injury that has an adverse effect when your job is based on catching a ball?

[quote]I don't think Armstrong, Banks, Austin, Paul, Stallworth or Robinson are anything special. I'd like to keep Paul around because he may develop into a James Thrash type and Robinson for depth and maybe he develops into a deep threat. If we only returned Gaffney, Hankerson & Paul I would be perfectly ok with that.[/quote]I'm not sure what you mean by special?
Armstrong proved that when healthy and playing with a QB that has a good deep ball can be a deep threat to the tune of 19.8 YPC I don't know but to me that's something.
19.8 YPC isn't a fluke.

I don't see how losing Moss improves the WR corps, especially for a team that uses and will likely use even more 3 and 4 wide sets.
Building a solid WR corps is essential in those packages.
Look at the Packers for example they still have Donald Driver as part of their WRs corps and I'm sure we can agree that Moss is currently better then Driver?
I don't see how losing Moss would do anything to improve the WRs as a unit.

[quote]In the red zone we have no targets from our WR corp.[/quote]I disagree with this.
I think a more accurate statement is we don't target our WR much in the RZ.
But I clearly recall Armstrong catching a fade in the Giants game #1.
And I've seen Moss catch a quick slant or fadestop/comeback for TDs.

[quote]Hankerson is 'big' by our standards but he's barely 6'2, not a huge target and he's unproven. I think he will be a good player, perhaps very good but he will develop better with more threats around him.[/quote]Hankerson just needs to develop, we don't know what he'll become and I think the team needs to find out.
And pushing him down the depth chart only makes his development more difficult.

[quote]I don't think we need a 'splash' player here.. I'd be thrilled with Garcon & Royal or Meachem. We've got enough other holes to fill we don't need to go crazy at this position but it does need significant focus.[/quote]
Garcon had the benefit of being a 2nd or 3rd option in already potent passing offense and yet his production has yet to match Tana who's played in rather difficult circumstances by comparison.
I agree that Royal would be a nice addition to the WRs group.

[quote]I'd also be fine if we signed Jackson, but I don't think it would be our best use of the money.[/quote]I would love it if we signed Jackson but not at the expense of significantly upgrading the RT spot.

[quote]-Don't be surprised to see us add a feature type back in FA or in the 3rd round. What about Helu?? Shanny has called him on a few occassions a nice change of pace back and he wasn't really drafted to be a 250-300 carry guy. He's not built for that..[/quote]I think there is almost zero chance they go after a FA RB that seems completely counter to Mike/Bobby Turner's RB MO.
I do agree that at some point they will draft a RB as a value pick.
But I don't think it will mean anything negative about Helu or Royster; they just like to draft RBs.
I think Hightower, Helu and Royster can all run effectively in Bobby Turner's system.


[quote]-Don't be shocked if Fletcher doesn't return. He's looking to get PAID and we may be able to get close to his production and save about 10 years. It would suck to lose him but if the defense can get younger for the same price without a huge dropoff it's the smart thing to do.[/quote]Oh, I'll be shocked if London doesn't return and I disagree he's looking to get paid.
He's a savvy player that understands his market value, he'll be looking for a fair deal.
I completely disagree that we'll be able to get close to Fletcher's production because 1 he's a beast and equally as important he's one of the few true leaders on the team and he's the leader of the teams best unit.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

[quote=bigm29;895519]Im all for picking Vincent Jackson. with moss/gaffney/Hankerson behind him we should be fine. We just need to find a starting right tackle somehow and improve overall depth on the line and this offense could be great.

if we bring fletcher back than we have a top 10 defense to pair it with.[/quote]Good post, tipping my cap.
You managed to sum up my points in 4 sentences.
I gotta stop drinking wine at dinner.

Re: Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft
 

Are you sure wasn't he signed by the shegles then released.