Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884130]I don't remember saying signing big name FAs. I make the trade for the guy who I think will be the face of my franchise for the next 15 seasons. Fill my holes with smart FA signings like we have been doing. Y[B]ou can stockpile all the picks you want but without a QB you'll be drafting in the top 10 every year. Eventually you got to pull the trigger.[/B][/quote]

Can I get an amen?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884132]And I still think RGIII will be there at #6 but if we want to trade up for him, I'm not against it.[/quote]

No way he is there at 6 pick even if the browns don't want him someone else below will trade up to get him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

It could be the proverbial smokescreen again, but Kyle Shanahans interview with Sheehan on the radio makes me think that as of right now - the redskins don't think that RGIII is not worth giving up several high draft picks for. Still early though ... and there's a lot of mind games to be played so I don't know.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

To me it's a no brainer. You take Peyton Manning and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

You get one of the very best quarterbacks in NFL history. You don't have to give up anything but money, so you still get to make all your picks and continue building the team through the draft in a sane fashion. And signing Manning buys you three years to find the QB of the long term future.

With Griffin, yes you get a very talented player who can make plays on the ground and in the air. But you sacrifice a ton of (high) picks to do so. This team still needs talent, we're not one player away, even if that single player is a potential franchise QB.

And in the end, Griffin is an unknown commodity. Sure he seems like he'll translate to the NFL, but so did Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell and Tim Couch and Cade McNown and Ryan Leaf and on and on and on. To me, Manning's recovery is less of a question mark than whether Griffin will pan out. The stats don't lie, half of the QBs drafted in Round 1 become flops. So don't be so quick to dismiss that possibility with Griffin, I guarantee you the Bengals thought they had a good thing with Akili Smith, as did the Raiders with Russell.

If you want a precedent for this, look at Montana in Kansas City, they went to an AFC title game. Sometimes football is not that complicated. If the best player in NFL history (in my humble opinion) becomes available, you get him.

And think of it this way: if we miss on Griffin we're set back SIGNIFICANTLY in our efforts to return the team to the playoffs. If we miss on Manning and his neck doesn't pan out, at least we still will have filled our squad out with high picks. In the end, the downside with Manning is much less.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Can we all agree to a rule that no one is allowed to say, "Manning will get killed behind our O line"?

He was sacked 16 times in 2010. The Same O line gave up 35 last year.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884130]I don't remember saying signing big name FAs. I make the trade for the guy who I think will be the face of my franchise for the next 15 seasons. Fill my holes with smart FA signings like we have been doing. [B][U]You can stockpile all the picks you want but without a QB you'll be drafting in the top 10 every year[/U][/B]. Eventually you got to pull the trigger.[/quote]

I"m sorry. I missed the 49ers being in the top 10 in the draft this year.


Insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results. I figured you guys would have "gotten it" over this past decade but apparently you long for the Cerrato era back again. *sighs*

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884119]If RGIII is that franchise QB, I don't care about Riley Reiff, Manti Te'o, Alfonzo Denard, or Andersen "The Spider" Silva. A franchise QB makes all those holes disappear so I send my 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 3rd this year and a 4th next year for my QB and we are still left with:

2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 7th plus FA. You mean to tell me we can't fill holes with that? I don't want Manning.[/quote]To be clear though, it's not the quarterback that makes all those holes disappear, its the winning. And the holes are always going to be there. Doubly so if you don't do much winning.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884143]To me it's a no brainer. You take Peyton Manning and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

You get one of the very best quarterbacks in NFL history. You don't have to give up anything but money, so you still get to make all your picks and continue building the team through the draft in a sane fashion. And signing Manning buys you three years to find the QB of the long term future.

With Griffin, yes you get a very talented player who can make plays on the ground and in the air. But you sacrifice a ton of (high) picks to do so. This team still needs talent, we're not one player away, even if that single player is a potential franchise QB.

And in the end, Griffin is an unknown commodity. Sure he seems like he'll translate to the NFL, but so did Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell and Tim Couch and Cade McNown and Ryan Leaf and on and on and on. To me, Manning's recovery is less of a question mark than whether Griffin will pan out. The stats don't lie, half of the QBs drafted in Round 1 become flops. So don't be so quick to dismiss that possibility with Griffin, I guarantee you the Bengals thought they had a good thing with Akili Smith, as did the Raiders with Russell.

If you want a precedent for this, look at Montana in Kansas City, they went to an AFC title game. Sometimes football is not that complicated. If the best player in NFL history (in my humble opinion) becomes available, you get him.

And think of it this way: if we miss on Griffin we're set back SIGNIFICANTLY in our efforts to return the team to the playoffs. If we miss on Manning and his neck doesn't pan out, at least we still will have filled our squad out with high picks. In the end, the downside with Manning is much less.[/quote]



Good case, but the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;884146]I"m sorry. I missed the 49ers being in the top 10 in the draft this year.





Insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results. I figured you guys would have "gotten it" over this past decade but apparently you long for the Cerrato era back again. *sighs*[/QUOTE]

Where did the 49ers pick in 2011? That's right 7th. Alex Smith had his best year as a pro, showed why he was drafted number 1 overall. All he needed was to have a coach believe in him. 49ers is a terrible example.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884092]It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


[B][U]Package A:[/U][/B]

1) RGIII


[B][U]Package B:[/U][/B]
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)
[/quote]

Oh, in that case...package A, thank you.

Apart from the fact that you are guessing very high at the trade up cost, being overly optimistic in where Denard and Te'o will be drafted (won't we be picking later in the 1st with Peyton?) and ignoring where that 3rd would go if we didn't need Cousins (unless you are also suggesting [I]that[/I] goes in this colossal trade up). You are also conveniently leaving out the salary cap costs of Manning that could be spent elsewhere without him.

All that said, you are talking about a very narrow window in this pie-in-the-sky vision people have of Manning being healthy and unaffected by surgery, layoff or change of venue and somehow re-becoming the QB he was a few years ago (not to mention him apparently being able to make a mediocrity like Cousins into someone to build a future around thru some kind of osmosis). Even at that, someone has to draw the line at any level of optimism that has us putting a Super Bowl team around him in one offseason. So now we're looking at a window of opportunity that begins at a 37 year old and goes forward from there, for ...what? 2 years?

No thanks. I'll take my chances at a decade and a half of greatness leading our team. A all the way.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

If the Browns don't get Manning or Flynn, they're mos definitely going to draft RGIII if he falls to them. Publicly the browns have said that they're not committed to McCoy as their quarterback. They're looking at the best qb option possible, so there's no way RGIII falls past pick 4 without the browns getting their hopeful franchise qb in free agency. Even then theres still a good chance they draft RGIII anyway.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

... So if the redskins want RGIII then they better have hops cuz they're going to need to jump up to get him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Lotus, biffle just gave you your amen.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'll look at everyone elses after I offer my decision that way I'm not influenced.

Peyton is better then RGIII on any given Sun. Now the big question... will he be healthy enough to start come Sept.? To me doesn't matter. He's healthy he starts, he's not.... see if he is getting any better if not see if he would like to stay in the NFL and help out my son Kyle Shanahan.

Meanwhile I'm able to keep all my draft picks, get some weapons to put around whoever is at QB.

Next year with a full compliment of draft picks if PM was unable to play and whoever the backup was failed to get the job done..... I go all in to get to the first pick or second pick in 2013. Next year we will be in a better position to go all in sense we would have basically built up an OL, added some weapons, and only have a real need for QB on offense. Defense is almost set as long as we take a FS, ILB, and CB in this years draft then there shouldn't be a major need for any one spot other then QB next year.

Besides the coaching staff really liked Barkely anyway.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884148]Good case, but [B]the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents[/B] that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.[/quote]
As far as I have seen. The latest number puts us at a projected 50m under the cap to sign our guys, acquire new FA's and sign draft picks.
To my knowledge from what has been reported in the media, Peyton is prepared to negotiate a Very Cap friendly deal. HEAVY in incentives. He is reportedly less concerned about the money than the situation into which he will play.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884148]Good case, but the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.[/quote]

Legitimate concern, sure. But the probability of preventing him from playing like himself is no greater than the probability of Robert Griffin flopping.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884150]Where did the 49ers pick in 2011? That's right 7th. Alex Smith had his best year as a pro, showed why he was drafted number 1 overall. All he needed was to have a coach believe in him. 49ers is a terrible example.[/quote]

The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. They didn't sell the farm for one guy. They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Manning's contract would not be a concern from a cap standpoint given this team's recent commitment under Shanahan & Allen to rely on the draft moreso than free agency. Signing Manning to an incentive-laden deal would result in the team filling its needs through the draft, the way it should be done.

And even if the deal was an issue (which it wouldn't be), if Manning precludes us from going on a free agency spending splurge, isn't that a good thing? Did you guys just become Redskins fans last year or need I remind you of the lost decade of the 2000s?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884158]The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. [B]They didn't sell the farm for one guy. [/B]They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.[/quote]

They didn't have to sell the farm for one guy because they had the #1 overall pick to nab their QB.

I'm with Quake, the 49ers make a poor example of the point that you are trying to make.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;884158]The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. They didn't sell the farm for one guy. They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.[/QUOTE]

They have their QB. You gonna tell me they would get there with Rex Grossman? I know the strength of their team is defense and rushing attack, to say Alex Smith had nothing to do with it is crazy. They didn't have to sell the farm they were the worst team that year. We don't have that "luxury" of being the worst team so we need to take a risk and I feel RGIII is a risk worth taking. You don't, so we will just agree to disagree.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884151]Oh, in that case...package A, thank you.

Apart from the fact that you are guessing very high at the trade up cost, being overly optimistic in where Denard and Te'o will be drafted (won't we be picking later in the 1st with Peyton?) and ignoring where that 3rd would go if we didn't need Cousins (unless you are also suggesting [I]that[/I] goes in this colossal trade up). You are also conveniently leaving out the salary cap costs of Manning that could be spent elsewhere without him.

All that said, you are talking about a very narrow window in this pie-in-the-sky vision people have of Manning being healthy and unaffected by surgery, layoff or change of venue and somehow re-becoming the QB he was a few years ago (not to mention him apparently being able to make a mediocrity like Cousins into someone to build a future around thru some kind of osmosis). Even at that, someone has to draw the line at any level of optimism that has us putting a Super Bowl team around him in one offseason. So now we're looking at a window of opportunity that begins at a 37 year old and goes forward from there, for ...what? 2 years?

No thanks. I'll take my chances at a decade and a half of greatness leading our team. A all the way.[/quote]

I'm not guess at the costs to move up, that's about what it's going to take. I refer you to other trades and the NFL draft chart for evidence.

We are 40 million (and soon to be more after cuts) under the cap, and you worried about Manning's salary? Really? Do you realize how we got so far under? By cutting bloated contracts we spent to free agents, and have cheaper, younger, and better talented guys on the squad from the draft.

Yet, you sit up here and are willing to piss the team's future....just for the mere "CHANCE" of a franchise QB. If he busts, you have set the team back a minimum of five years. That's another five years of dreadful football, with other people getting our picks because we pissed them away for the "savior".

Choosing Package A:
Best Case: RGIII blooms, but the team is set back from contending due to the missed talent that would have came from draft picks used on him.

Wost case: RGIII is a bust, and the team is drafting in the top 5 for the next 4 years due to lack of talent.


Choosing Package B:

Best Case: Manning is healthy and returns to form. We use those draft picks to solidify the team's holes and contend almost immediately.

Wost Case: Manning isn't healthy, and we rely on Cousins or Orton at QB. We use those draft picks to further solidify the team make it a playoff caliber team.



At least with option B, the team could still be a playoff caliber team without a "franchise" QB. With option A, the team may still not be a playoff caliber team even with the "franchise" QB. You guys are willing to gamble too much for too little. I'm sooooo glad you aren't running this team. I would have stopped watching football by now if you were.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884119]If RGIII is that franchise QB, I don't care about Riley Reiff, Manti Te'o, Alfonzo Denard, or Andersen "The Spider" Silva. A franchise QB makes all those holes disappear so I send my 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 3rd this year and a 4th next year for my QB and we are still left with:

2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 7th plus FA. You mean to tell me we can't fill holes with that? I don't want Manning.[/quote]

Nice, except it's being reported it would be more like 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 3rd rounder in 2013.

Now add to that the Browns, and Miami and whoever else would like to have him deciding to add a pick or two here and there just to take it out from under the Skins trying to move up.

No thanks. I'd prefer to have the picks, hope PM gets healthy enough to play, and if not use Tannehill, Wilson, Weeden or whoever.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Hog1;884156]As far as I have seen. The latest number puts us at a projected 50m under the cap to sign our guys, acquire new FA's and sign draft picks.
To my knowledge from what has been reported in the media, Peyton is prepared to negotiate a Very Cap friendly deal. HEAVY in incentives. He is reportedly less concerned about the money than the situation into which he will play.[/quote]

However accurate the 50 mil number is, it will go quicker than most realize. But that's beside the point. Cap room is cap room. If you don't spend it on one player, you can spend it on another (or multiple). There's no magical amount available at which point a huge contract to one player couldn't have gone elsewhere and is thus irrelevant in terms of team building.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884161]They didn't have to sell the farm for one guy because they had the #1 overall pick to nab their QB.

I'm with Quake, the 49ers make a poor example of the point that you are trying to make.[/quote]


Alex SMith isn't a franchise QB. Which is my point that the team can still contend even with a busted guy at QB. The Chicago Bears made it to the Super Bowl with Rex "i'm going deep" Grossman. Why did they make it that far? Because they had a solid team beyond a QB.

My point is, I rather have a solid team and keep trying at the QB, than to keep rolling the dice and pissing away draft picks just for the mere chance that one day we land on the jackpot. Even if you do manage to land that jackpot one day, you won't have any talent on the team to go beyond because you have been pissing the picks away this whole time after your chase for the golden goose.

Pittsburgh, New England, Green Bay do it the right way. Look at our record and playoff wins the past decade, and look at theirs. Looks like they are doing something right. That is, being patient, building the team smart, and finally finding that QB.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884166]I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd[/quote]

Ok Vinny. I'm glad you don't run this team anymore either. How's the job search coming along?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884166]I'd still make the trade if they wanted 2012 and 2013 1st, 2012 2nd or 3rd and 2013 3rd[/quote]

Yeah but you're not always the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

Don't you think you could find the next QB of the future sometime in the next 3-5 years or however long Manning is around for? You'd be able to acquire a guy at some point without trading up like a Cerrato style moron.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884163]They have their QB. You gonna tell me they would get there with Rex Grossman? I know the strength of their team is defense and rushing attack, to say Alex Smith had nothing to do with it is crazy. They didn't have to sell the farm they were the worst team that year. We don't have that "luxury" of being the worst team so we need to take a risk and I feel RGIII is a risk worth taking. You don't, so we will just agree to disagree.[/quote]

The Bears got to the Super Bowl WITH Rex Grossman and they had less talent than the 49ers. Your point is now null and void.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Aaron Rodgers fell into Green Bay's laps and this past season and the Saints game in the playoffs played like a franchise qb. But let's move on I'm not gonna convince you that we should trade for him and I'm not trying to and you won't convince me that we shouldn't.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884144]Can we all agree to a rule that no one is allowed to say, "Manning will get killed behind our O line"?

He was sacked 16 times in 2010. The Same O line gave up 35 last year.[/quote]
[code]Pressure
| \
| \
| \
Sacks Pass attempt
| \
| \
| \
Incomplete Complete


Hits and knockdowns come on pass attempts.
[/code]
Sacks do not measure actual time or the [change in] the physical position of the rushers with respect to Manning. Manning might avoid sacks because he often releases the ball within 1 second, but that doesn't mean that Dlinemen weren't a split second from legally hitting him after the pass/incompletion.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884122]
Most smart teams build their team via draft and supplement via FA. We have been doing the opposite up until this past year.[B] I like the new way[/B].[/quote]

Yeah, me too. I'm tired of being the SB champs of the offseason.

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]"Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results". [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]The Skins have repeated the same mistake for 11yrs. They shift one year and do something different with good results and everyone gets withdrawls and wants to return to the Skins of old.
[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884172]Aaron Rodgers fell into Green Bay's laps and this past season and the Saints game in the playoffs played like a franchise qb. But let's move on I'm not gonna convince you that we should trade for him and I'm not trying to and you won't convince me that we shouldn't.[/quote]

If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Franchise quarterbacks are fun. Until 2012 happens, Alex Smith both is and is not a franchise quarterback, depending on the argument you are trying to make. And even better, you don't have to believe one or the other. You can just use the term or reject the term as it suits you.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884164]I'm not guess at the costs to move up, that's about what it's going to take. I refer you to other trades and the NFL draft chart for evidence.

We are 40 million (and soon to be more after cuts) under the cap, and you worried about Manning's salary? Really? Do you realize how we got so far under? By cutting bloated contracts we spent to free agents, and have cheaper, younger, and better talented guys on the squad from the draft.

Yet, you sit up here and are willing to piss the team's future....just for the mere "CHANCE" of a franchise QB. If he busts, you have set the team back a minimum of five years. That's another five years of dreadful football, with other people getting our picks because we pissed them away for the "savior".

Choosing Package A:
Best Case: RGIII blooms, but the team is set back from contending due to the missed talent that would have came from draft picks used on him.

Wost case: RGIII is a bust, and the team is drafting in the top 5 for the next 4 years due to lack of talent.


Choosing Package B:

Best Case: Manning is healthy and returns to form. We use those draft picks to solidify the team's holes and contend almost immediately.

Wost Case: Manning isn't healthy, and we rely on Cousins or Orton at QB. We use those draft picks to further solidify the team make it a playoff caliber team.



At least with option B, the team could still be a playoff caliber team without a "franchise" QB. With option A, the team may still not be a playoff caliber team even with the "franchise" QB. You guys are willing to gamble too much for too little. I'm sooooo glad you aren't running this team. I would have stopped watching football by now if you were.[/quote]

1. There is no recent trade nor example from the value chart that makes your trade likely.

2. Cap room is cap room. If you give 15 mil to Peyton Manning, that is 15 mil that can't be spent esewhere. Just brushing that aside to try to make your argument stronger is pretty weak.

3. I don't believe every drafted QB is the same and that it amounts to a coin flip whether they bust or not. Griffin is one of the best QB prospects in recent years, and that's why I want to draft him. It's not because I just want some kind of randomized chance at a good QB.

4. If a chance at greatness is staring you in the face and all you can do is worry about what the worst case scenario is, then you'll never have the guts necessary to succeed. Big accomplishments never come by avoiding any risk.

5. I couldn't care less if the Redskins become "playoff contenders". I want them to become "Super Bowl contenders". There's a difference. And teams that don't set their sights on titles never win them.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;884175]If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.[/QUOTE]

I gotta better idea. If you don't like what I post put me on your ignore list that way you don't have to read it and I don't have to see your pathetic attempt to be an asshole. So everybody wins.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I am really on the fence with both because- going by history- picking up a free agent franchise quarterback is really a longshot. I know the circumstances with Manning is different but whatever the reason the colts feel that their team and organization is better off without Manning (and his contract) which is just like any other player that gets cut.

But really this thread shouldn't be an either-or choice. I think whether or not the redskins are able to get Manning through free agency- they should really invest a high draft pick (preferably a 1st rounder) in a qb. Because- going by history again- a majority of the "franchise" qbs are obtained through the draft or get on a team very early on in their career and they develop as the team gets better too. Bottom line: it would seem to be a better option to try to find a franchise qb in the draft rather than pick up an aging franchise qb that was thrown or given away by another team.

What I'm really on the fence about though- is whether RGIII is worth giving up something like 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders for. If he's definitely a franchise qb then hell yeah but we all know that the draft is one big crapshoot. And giving up those draft picks is like losing 4 potential playmakers - like 2 Ryan Kerrigans and 2 Jarvis Jenkins on the team.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884175]If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.[/quote]The case for trading up to 2 for Griffin is as follows:

Griffin would be a first overall pick in any other year. He can't be a first overall pick this year because Andrew Luck is in this draft. The Rams would be foolish to not draft Griffin, but if they are willing to trade that pick, better you be the team to get it than someone else.

If all that is true, then yeah, you'd go get Griffin because he's a once in every few years prospect.

I personally am rejecting that his pre-draft value is that high...that you can't get him with the 3rd or 4th pick. I think the world of him as a prospect, but I wouldn't even take him at 6th if I had a healthy Peyton Manning on my roster.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;884169]Ok Vinny. I'm glad you don't run this team anymore either. How's the job search coming along?[/QUOTE]

Pretty good. I'm a manager at a Gamestop now, doesn't pay as much as Genreal Manager does but I still get the bills paid.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

..and for the record, I'm a huge fan of RGIII and would love him to be in the B&G. That said, it's not the best move for the future of this team to sell the farm to get him. Nobody wants a franchise QB more than me. I've had to watch guys like Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning, Brady all come in this league and tear it up while our team struggled year after year for the past 20 years. It sucks, but we have to stop doing business the fools way. The reason Vinny was so shitty at his job wasn't because he didn't know football or personnel, it was because he took too many chances. He gambled the OL's health would stay up. He gambled those big time FA would make a impact. He gambled trading those picks would pan out with veteran acquisitions. He gambled on high risk draft picks. Our fans seriously need a detoxing of this poisonous culture that jerkoff created. We long to have a guy like Bill Belicheck here, but we shun the method he uses to build a team. Ironic to say the least.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GTripp0012;884176]Franchise quarterbacks are fun. Until 2012 happens, Alex Smith both is and is not a franchise quarterback, depending on the argument you are trying to make. And even better, you don't have to believe one or the other. You can just use the term or reject the term as it suits you.[/quote]
All you have done is highlighted yet another example of the equivocation fallacy.