Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SBXVII;866290]McNabbs was worse... he had Mommy complaining. lol.[/quote]

When McNabb's Mom threatens a lifetime campbell's soup ban, you listen.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SBXVII;866285]The bigger question is ...

When will Daddy allow his kids to grow up and be men for themselves? Archie needs to STFU and stay out of the way. Unless I'm completely wrong and Daddy is their manager?[/quote]

Hey, It worked before...

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;866280]First, I was really asking about your experience to see if you had a different, and better, perspective than me and, if so, I would be more willing to accept your conclusions. If it came across differently, it was not meant to be so.

Secondly, and more to the point, I don't really disagree with your assertion that these guys come out wanting to play and are hard wired that way. At the same time, it has been my observation that [I]some[/I] are mature enough to put their long term interests over their short term interests without losing that competitive burn. Sure he may be chomping at the bit to play, but maybe, just maybe, Luck sees the long term benefit of playing behind Manning for a year or two as opposed to coming into a poor situation where he is condemned to losing, possibly for the long term.

Really, I agree with your premise - these guys come out wanting, burning even, to play. AND, if we were talking about playing behind Grossman for a year or two, I would not expect Luck to be peachy with that. I am suggesting, however, that a Manning/Luck QB situation would be something special in and of itself and comparable to Montana/Young. Maybe Luck recognizes that and says - "Okay, I can deal with being behind Manning. I don't particularly like it, but I can deal with it." As I said, Rivers came in behind Brees and was a team player while still, clearly, burning to play.[/quote]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a dick but was just answering the questions since you asked.

I don't think Luck would be a malcontent or a problem if he were to it behind Manning but the situation would be extremely awkward. Manning is much like Favre apparently, wanting to dominate all practice reps, not serve as a true 'mentor' to his backups, really 100% focused on the team and his performance. As a #1 overall pick, I'd think that's a bad situation to be walking into, especially when I'm 'game ready' to most scouts and coaches.

Since you referenced Montana/Young, both of them acknowledge how difficult that was for both of them to deal with and how unhappy they both were. Back to the premise of the original post, if you are Oliver Luck, is that what you want for your kid or do you want him to go somewhere to create his own legacy?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;866275]How about...the Saints fail to sign Drew Brees this off-season...and Peyton Manning goes to New Orleans[/quote]

Would the Saints really let the actual mayor of New Orleans get away? Brees is just one small notch below Jesus down here.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=Paintrain;866298]Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a dick but was just answering the questions since you asked.

I don't think Luck would be a malcontent or a problem if he were to it behind Manning but the situation would be extremely awkward. Manning is much like Favre apparently, wanting to dominate all practice reps, not serve as a true 'mentor' to his backups, really 100% focused on the team and his performance. As a #1 overall pick, I'd think that's a bad situation to be walking into, especially when I'm 'game ready' to most scouts and coaches.

Since you referenced Montana/Young, both of them acknowledge how difficult that was for both of them to deal with and how unhappy they both were. [B]Back to the premise of the original post, if you are Oliver Luck, is that what you want for your kid or do you want him to go somewhere to create his own legacy[/B]?[/quote]

He will create his own legacy wherever he goes - Is Rogers success tied to Farve's? Was Young's tied to Monatana? Is Manning's somehow tied to Unitas' just b/c they played for the Colts? No. Each is seen as a success in their own right.

If your asking me what I would want and do if Luck were my son, I would want him in a place that would let him succeed for the long term and I think Indi is such a place. I would counsel him to go to Indi, tough it out for a couple years, learn what he could and be ready to start at any moment. As saden1 said, Manning is one tackle away from retirement.

I would also suggest he buy me a new car, a new house, and all the cool new tech gadgets my heart desires.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=Lotus;866301]Would the Saints really let the actual mayor of New Orleans get away? Brees is just one small notch below Jesus down here.[/quote]

They're far apart...but both sides want an agreement so I suspect an agreement will be reached.

But maybe, just maybe, they won't be able to keep Brees and their back-up. What's his name?

^ Yeah it's that Charlie Daniel guy right?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;866308]They're far apart...but both sides want an agreement so I suspect an agreement will be reached.

But maybe, just maybe, they won't be able to keep Brees and their back-up. What's his name?[/quote]

On a side note (from the D. Brees talk): Smoot, what is your take on the colts situation? Do you see some power plays coming and do you have any sense on where A. Luck will finally land?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=mbedner3420;866311]On a side note (from the D. Brees talk): Smoot, what is your take on the colts situation? Do you see some power plays coming and do you have any sense on where A. Luck will finally land?[/quote]

I couldn't even begin to guess. I think whoever finishes the worst record, and I think it will be the Colts (barring something unforeseen), will draft and keep Luck.

I don't think even the Colts thought they'd be in this situation

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;866308]They're far apart...but both sides want an agreement so I suspect an agreement will be reached.

But maybe, just maybe, they won't be able to keep Brees and their back-up. What's his name?[/quote]

If the Aints let Brees go, the rioting in NOLA will be ugly...the fans' feelings of betrayal will be deep.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

Doesn't matter. Who ever has the top pick in the draft holds all the cards. If Luck pulls an Eli and does not sign with the team that drafted him, in all likelihood he will leave MILLIONS on the table.

When a player decides not to sign with the team that drafted him, he has to sign a contract by a specified date (sometime in October I think). If unsigned by that date, then his only recourse is that he re-enters the following years draft. Even after the signing deadline, the drafting team still owns the rights to him.

And when he re-enters the following years draft, he is almost assuredly going to be drafted in a later round. That means a loss of a lot of money.

Teams will not "gamble" a first or second round draft pick on a guy who already has proven that if he does not want to play for you, he won't. Best to pick him in the later rounds.

And I believe that when the player is selected in that second draft, the original drafting team gets their draft pick back.

So If the Colts select him in the first round of 2012. Luck does not sign. Enters the 2013 draft. And if he is selected by another team in the 2013 draft, the Colts get their original first round draft pick back in 2014 draft.

The only caveat being that if Luck re-enters the 2013 draft, the original drafting team in 2012 (Colts for example) are forbidden from drafting him a second time.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

Brees isn't leaving the Saints...the man is elite and has at least 2 great years and 2 solid years left in the tank. The Saints will pay him what he wants for sure.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;866321]Doesn't matter. Who ever has the top pick in the draft holds all the cards. If Luck pulls an Eli and does not sign with the team that drafted him, in all likelihood he will leave MILLIONS on the table.

When a player decides not to sign with the team that drafted him, he has to sign a contract by a specified date (sometime in October I think). If unsigned by that date, then his only recourse is that he re-enters the following years draft. Even after the signing deadline, the drafting team still owns the rights to him.

And when he re-enters the following years draft, he is almost assuredly going to be drafted in a later round. That means a loss of a lot of money.

Teams will not "gamble" a first or second round draft pick on a guy who already has proven that if he does not want to play for you, he won't. Best to pick him in the later rounds.

And I believe that when the player is selected in that second draft, the original drafting team gets their draft pick back.

So If the Colts select him in the first round of 2012. Luck does not sign. Enters the 2013 draft. And if he is selected by another team in the 2013 draft, the Colts get their original first round draft pick back in 2014 draft.

T[B]he only caveat being that if Luck re-enters the 2013 draft, the original drafting team in 2012 (Colts for example) are forbidden from drafting him a second time.[/B][/quote]

Is this true? Can someone confirm?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/archie-manning-says-son-andrew-luck-could-coexist-as-quarterbacks-in-indianapolis/2011/12/07/gIQAcYTtcO_story.html]Archie Manning says son, Andrew Luck could coexist as quarterbacks in Indianapolis - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=mooby;866326]Is this true? Can someone confirm?[/quote]

True

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

Saints won't let Brees go and Colts won't let 18 go.. Why would they??

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

Well it seems as though the Colts would get Luck if they get the #1 draft choice of 2012. As it looks like they are going to get that. But IMHO, Peyton M wouldn't allow that. And would try to prevent that from happening. Still hurt or not, Manning is the face of the Colts.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

I hope not. I never liked Elway for pulling that shit on the Baltimore Colts and Eli on SD. As much as I love Luck I would dislike him if he pulled that crap too.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;866341]I hope not. I never liked Elway for pulling that shit on the Baltimore Colts and Eli on SD. As much as I love Luck I would dislike him if he pulled that crap too.[/quote]

If I said to you that you can be picked first overall by the Cleveland Browns and make 3 million or you can go to the dolphins in Miami for the second overall pick and make 2.5 million, where would you rather go?

Not appealing to be going to Cleveland when you could be in beautiful sunny Miami. Thats one of the reasons why these guys don't want to go to certain places.

Also keep in mind most the time it is the parents that want whats best for the kids.

Where would you rather go? San Diego with AJ Smith who doesn't let players go and makes them all play by his rules, or Giants which is a stable franchise with a winning past, but in a city with critical fans? Thats what Eli faced, But it was Archie who said I don't want Eli going there because AJ Smith is the Lord of No Rings. My son has a better chance of getting and doing what he wants in New York, than he does in Sunny San Diego.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;866321]Doesn't matter. Who ever has the top pick in the draft holds all the cards. If Luck pulls an Eli and does not sign with the team that drafted him, in all likelihood he will leave MILLIONS on the table.

When a player decides not to sign with the team that drafted him, he has to sign a contract by a specified date [B](sometime in October I think)[/B]. If unsigned by that date, then his only recourse is that he re-enters the following years draft. Even after the signing deadline, the drafting team still owns the rights to him.

And when he re-enters the following years draft, he is almost assuredly going to be drafted in a later round. That means a loss of a lot of money.

Teams will not "gamble" a first or second round draft pick on a guy who already has proven that if he does not want to play for you, he won't. Best to pick him in the later rounds.

And I believe that when the player is selected in that second draft, the original drafting team gets their draft pick back.

So If the Colts select him in the first round of 2012. Luck does not sign. Enters the 2013 draft. And if he is selected by another team in the 2013 draft, the Colts get their original first round draft pick back in 2014 draft.

The only caveat being that if Luck re-enters the 2013 draft, the original drafting team in 2012 (Colts for example) are forbidden from drafting him a second time.[/quote]
Okay, I looked it up on the NFLPA web site that has the 2011 CBA in it's entirety on there.

The contract sign date is actually the tenth week of the regular season. If the draftee does not sign by week 10, then he can re-enter the next years draft. Unless, before the next draft he agrees to a deal with the club that drafted him, that deal is for the NEXT season and he is ineligible to play after week 10 even if he signs a contract. He would actually start playing the next league year.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;866370]Okay, I looked it up on the NFLPA web site that has the 2011 CBA in it's entirety on there.

The contract sign date is actually the tenth week of the regular season. If the draftee does not sign by week 10, then he can re-enter the next years draft. Unless, before the next draft he agrees to a deal with the club that drafted him, that deal is for the NEXT season and he is ineligible to play after week 10 even if he signs a contract. He would actually start playing the next league year.[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Luck isn't feeling the draft this year, he can return to Stanford for another season. But here's the real deal: [B]LUCK WILL BE DRAFTED BY INDY[/B]. He will sit behind Manning for 2-3 years, or possibly earlier depending on Manning's health. [B]BREES WILL BE RETAINED BY THE SAINTS. [/B]
Not to be rude, but move on people, all of the speculation of the Skins getting [B]ANY OF THESE THREE QB's IS PURLY DELUSIONAL[/B]. So, lets move on from fantasy land and evaluate who we would like to get out of the remaining attainable QB's... :soapbox:

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

There's a decent chance the Colts aren't going to take Luck. Based on the assumption that they feel pretty confident PM is healthy here's my take.

PM is 35, he's got a good 4 years left most likely. He doesn't get hit like most QB's.
The return:
2012 1st round, 2nd round
2013 1st round
2014 high pick
With free agency adding to the roster, I believe they'd have a great shot at another SB.

Publically they'll offer some smoke screens but I think there's a chance they won't draft him.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=redsk1;866383]There's a decent chance the Colts aren't going to take Luck. Based on the assumption that they feel pretty confident PM is healthy here's my take.

PM is 35, he's got a good 4 years left most likely. He doesn't get hit like most QB's.
The return:
2012 1st round, 2nd round
2013 1st round
2014 high pick
With free agency adding to the roster, I believe they'd have a great shot at another SB.

Publically they'll offer some smoke screens but I think there's a chance they won't draft him.[/quote]
The only way I see Indy not taking him is, if he doesn't enter the draft. The only other possibility I see him not being a Colt is, if they trade him or the #1 pick away for beaucoup compensation.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

PM has a really tricky situation with his injury. It might be several more months before they are sure he can play or not, even then it's going to be dicey. I think the Colts have to think long term and Luck is someone that they simply cannot afford to pass over.

Odds are Luck goes to Indy.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;866384]The only way I see Indy not taking him is, if he doesn't enter the draft. The only other possibility I see him not being a Colt is, if they trade him or the #1 pick away for beaucoup compensation.[/quote]
Wow, is that how you spell BooCoo. Never ssen it before.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;866390]Wow, is that how you spell BooCoo. Never ssen it before.[/quote]

Yes, Sir.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

The only way Indy DOES NOT take Luck is if.....Vinnie is now calling the shots in the Hoosier state....

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=Mattyk;866386]PM has a really tricky situation with his injury. It might be several more months before they are sure he can play or not, even then it's going to be dicey. I think the Colts have to think long term and Luck is someone that they simply cannot afford to pass over.

Odds are Luck goes to Indy.[/quote]

I think the Colts are in the best situation to move on from P. Manning right now. Manning's health is a true concern and I really don't think they should risk by staying with Manning. Plus they have an opportunity to once again get a franchise QB in the draft.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

The way I see it no one will know anything for sure until next April but we will have a better idea of what may happen one month before the draft. I'm not 100% on the exact date and amount but Manning is due to receive a giant roster bonus, some thing over 20 mil I believe, in mid march. If he takes that bonus that will more likely than not mean he will be returning to the colts and they will be trading the first pick away, unless he pulls a Haynesworth that is.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

I guess the question is: how does the bonus work if Manning gets traded to another team? Because if another team has to pick up the bonus, the Colts won't have any trading partners.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/07/colts-cant-pay-and-trade-peyton/]Colts can’t pay and trade Peyton | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

It looks like that if the Colts are going to move on without Manning, they will most likely need to trade him to whatever team Manning wants (and maybe lessening the compensation) so Manning agrees to move the bonus payment date. Unless they keep him and sit Luck for the first season.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/feature/video/_/id/7303334/ultimate-scouting-report]It's All About Luck: Ultimate Scouting Report - ESPN[/url]

Nice breakdown on Luck.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=redsk1;866574][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/feature/video/_/id/7303334/ultimate-scouting-report]It's All About Luck: Ultimate Scouting Report - ESPN[/url]

Nice breakdown on Luck.[/quote]

I read it. Great break down. However most of it is through McShay's POV. I'm not a McShay kind of guy. I prefer a Mayock over him and Kiper any day of the week. I know Kiper gives some opinion in this article, and he has a solid opinion.

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;866603]I read it. Great break down. However most of it is through McShay's POV. I'm not a McShay kind of guy. I prefer a Mayock over him and Kiper any day of the week. I know Kiper gives some opinion in this article, and he has a solid opinion.[/quote]

McShay's on my list. He knows what he did...

I'm gonna miss Mel :(

Anyhow, I've heard good things about this report. I'll have to check it out later

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;866615]McShay's on my list. He knows what he did...

[B]I'm gonna miss Mel[/B] :(

Anyhow, I've heard good things about this report. I'll have to check it out later[/quote]

is he leaving?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

Is Mel going to NFLN?

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;866390]Wow, is that how you spell BooCoo. Never ssen it before.[/quote]Dude he's from New Orleans, the French Quarters.

What? I know nothing of him going anywhere. I just meant I, having left, will miss working with him. Though we only really interacted via phone he's one of the nicest on air talents I worked with. Probably my favorite NFL guy for sure

Re: Should Oliver Luck pull a power play on the Colts?
 

[quote=Mattyk;866428][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/07/colts-cant-pay-and-trade-peyton/]Colts can’t pay and trade Peyton | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

That's what always puzzled me. To re-sign a guy to a major contract who was headed to IR. IND doesn't deserve any Luck.