Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;843639]This thread is redic. We r 3-1. One pick was on him. I hate fans like you.[/quote]

you're redic

If we were a super bowl team or A playoff main stay I'd say stay with Grossman. But we're not, I'd say it's time to make the switch. There is no more up side to Beck. We won't get any more yards, we won't score any more points, but he won't do his Brett Favre with down syndrome impression like Grossman often does. Just manage the game for christ sake. Run and Defense, no turn overs, and less 3 and outs and the skin win every time.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;843523]So if we're 3-1, then what's the justification for bringing in Beck?[/quote]

The justification is his bone headed plays, and the team winning in spite of him doing everything possible to ensure that we lose the game. The guy is also getting very lucky, as in having numerous picks dropped in both the Arizona game and this one.

The guy just doesnt have it. Not what it takes to be a week in, week out winner in this league. Just imagine what this team would be capable of if the squad had a sound decision maker at quarterback...... I'm not even saying an all-pro!!! Just someone who doesnt fumble, throw directly to the other team, make boneheaded decisions.....etc...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

3-1 is really good but the only time we've looked completely in control was the second half against the Giants and kind of in the first half against the Rams. It's not like we've dominated this season.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;843636]Dumb idea, and who cares about the media.

I think it was Bill Parcells who said[B] if you think you have two quarterbacks, you don't even have one[/B]...something like that. You don't switch QBs unless there is a reason. 3-1 going into they bye leading your division with a QB that has decent but not outstanding stats is a move that will lose the team and probably more games than not in the future.

Rex is our guy unless he gets hurt.[/quote]

That's a cliche and has little to do with our actual situation. Right now we're committing turnovers and we're not moving the ball through the air. I never understood why QB's are virtually immune from benching. Redskins were 2-0 with Doughty starting, and 1-1 with Landry starting. Should we bench Landry? I'm tired of hearing about QB records, all to often it's used as a justification for poor play.

Just look at the Titans without Vince Young. QB records only mean so much.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843649]you're redic[/quote]

Awww thanks :)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mechanix544;843651]
[B]The guy just doesnt have it.[/B] Not what it takes to be a week in, week out winner in this league. Just imagine what this team would be capable of if the squad had a sound decision maker at quarterback...... I'm not even saying an all-pro!!! Just someone who doesnt fumble, throw directly to the other team, make boneheaded decisions.....etc...[/quote]

Exactly -- every week its the same old BS quotes. "Yeah, I need to just go out and play" or something to that effect. Dude, if this is you just going out and playing, STOP!!! and think before you throw the ball. You can't hang on to the ball when you get hit, make really bad decisions in pivotal moments, and putting the ball in your hands in 3rd down is a guaranteed turnover (on downs or of the ball).

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I wouldn't make a change until it costs us the game. At that point, I'd make the switch.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

When a coach benches an all pro quarterback in a game where he just wasnt very effective, or he "wasnt in good enough shape to run the 2 minute offense" (Yeah, and grossman is the epitome of physical strength and conditioning, gimme a fvckin break), then I would say after the past two games we have seen from rex grossman, it certainly is well within the realm of possibility that he sits Grossman and gives beck his shot. Who knows, he could break out and be an above average quarterback for us. One thing I know for certain is that we will not keep winning games like this with the subpar qb play we have witnessed the past 2 weeks. We should count ourselves EXTREMELY lucky to be 3-1 at this point. Our record in NO WAY justifies that Rex Grossmans job is safe, for the fact that none of the wins can be attributed to his stellar play, and all of them save for the giants game COULD have EASILY been lost due to the mistakes he is so prone to making, like he is on cue. Those thinking that Shanahan will not bench Rex based solely on the fact that we have won 3 games at this point of the season is fooling themselves. Rex's play is SCREAMING "Bench Me", and I hope and believe that Shanahan will make the correct call, and put in John Beck over the bye week.

As for this season, you will not find a better time to install a new quarterback with your offense. We know that Rex Grossman cannot be counted on, but John Beck has yet to show that he is as mistake prone as Rex. If we can cut out the INTs, fumbles and idiot throws to the other team that they miraculously fail to catch, then we might just see a little more productivity from our offensive group.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;843639]This thread is redic. We r 3-1. One pick was on him. I hate fans like you.[/quote]

I hate QBs who are stupid idoits dummies. :tongue

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

To say it another way, you guys are pining for John Beck like he's the next coming of Bart Starr. He's not. From what I've seen, Beck is just as ordinary as Grossman. Marginally more athletic, mechanics are different but I'm not seeing a huge upgrade, if at all.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Rex Grossman is beyond being benched or even criticized. I believe wholeheartedly that every Skins fans understands Rex has his shortcomings that are liabilities, especially late in the game. So far though, those liabilities haven't cost us wins.

You chop off the top 5 or 6 QBs in this league and a lot of these guys fall squarely into Rex Grossman territory on most Sundays. I think the Skins should stand pat, not because Rex deserves it so much but because the team is playing well and there's no reason to see just for the sake of seeing. Let Rex study the film, sit down with Shanny and Kyle over the bye and reboot.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Well I look at it like this .. Moss was responsible for 1 pick .. Hightower dropped crucial 3rd down play that would have kept momentum going .. yes he played ugly today but he also made some nice throws and we won the game .. perhaps you haven't seen the "BONEHEAD" plays Tony Romo made and/or makes ? Relax people, yes that game was a game that should have been slammed home 35-0 ... I would say playcalling was responsible for 75% of those turnovers .. why the F would we be throwing in that last situation anyways ? We have a 3 headed RB monster approaching our team and good rex bad rex is GOOD enough to get us at 3-1 heading into bye week in 1st Place. BTW we would be 4-0 if we would have played a little 'safe' defense like we did today when we needed to stop a 20+ yds play for 1st down ... Beck be ready, only if Rex gets injured otherwise we roll with our homey .. yeah he's a little chunky and a maniac and gives us all heart attacks but for whatever reason ... i'm feeling him .. Hail to the Sex Grossmans

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Im hung on this...you see had kyle not made shitty calls on 3rd down we'd have a Rex Resurection thread

On the otherhand we know Beck can get out the pocket and run that play action WAY better than rex

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Wow. Just wow. Okay, Rex isn't great - but he is good enough. We have a team that is focused and, 3 times in 4, has found a way to get the job done. But, yeah, let's f*** with what's got us here just 'cause. If Beck were a definite upgrade, sure. But he's not.

When Rex loses a game or two, then, okay, yank him.

But, when you're winning, don't mess with success. Duh.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;843670]I wouldn't make a change until it costs us the game. At that point, I'd make the switch.[/quote]

Isn't that kind of reactive? I mean, if the warning signs are all there saying get rid of this guy, shouldn't the move be made [B]before[/B] he costs us a game?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;843654]That's a cliche and has little to do with our actual situation. Right now we're committing turnovers and we're not moving the ball through the air. I never understood why QB's are virtually immune from benching. [B]Redskins were 2-0 with Doughty starting, and 1-1 with Landry starting. Should we bench Landry?[/B] I'm tired of hearing about QB records, all to often it's used as a justification for poor play.

Just look at the Titans without Vince Young. QB records only mean so much.[/quote]


No, it just means that this game is about more than one player. We'll probably never find out for sure, but IMHO Beck isn't going to give this team more wins than Grossman will.

Should close this thread, it is comical that we are even talking about this.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;843678]I hate QBs who are stupid idoits dummies. :tongue[/quote]

Not sure what that means but im assuming your're unhappy with Grossmans play.......3-1 dude. One pick his own fault the other was Santana's. Not a great but solid game for Rex

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Ok Im watching the replays....u know what...I don't think Rex is to blame...

1. Recievers aren't getting separation we are really missing Armstrong

2. Stop passing on 3rd and 3 Kyle

4. I'm seeing a ton of illegal touching on the guys covering fred davis thats going uncalled.

Don't blame Rex cept for that 1 int

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;843489]Pretty hard to bench your QB when you're 3-1, that's all I'm saying.[/quote]

i think you should have let someone who thinks beck should get the start to start the thread.

they could have laid out more of a foundation, stats, reasons to start the discussion off instead of having this one sentence thread starter with no substance that seems to have killed any real evolution of a worthy thread imo.

i dont think we should start beck, i dont see us being any better off with either beck or rex but still . . . i think ya jump the gun purposely to kill possibly the most relevant discussion we could have for the next 13 days or so.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

12th if this thread has anything going for it, it's that it's madness.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mechanix544;843676]When a coach benches an all pro quarterback in a game where he just wasnt very effective, or he "wasnt in good enough shape to run the 2 minute offense" (Yeah, and grossman is the epitome of physical strength and conditioning, gimme a fvckin break), then I would say after the past two games we have seen from rex grossman, it certainly is well within the realm of possibility that he sits Grossman and gives beck his shot. Who knows, he could break out and be an above average quarterback for us. One thing I know for certain is that we will not keep winning games like this with the subpar qb play we have witnessed the past 2 weeks. We should count ourselves EXTREMELY lucky to be 3-1 at this point. Our record in NO WAY justifies that Rex Grossmans job is safe, for the fact that none of the wins can be attributed to his stellar play, and all of them save for the giants game COULD have EASILY been lost due to the mistakes he is so prone to making, like he is on cue. Those thinking that Shanahan will not bench Rex based solely on the fact that we have won 3 games at this point of the season is fooling themselves. Rex's play is SCREAMING "Bench Me", and I hope and believe that Shanahan will make the correct call, and put in John Beck over the bye week.

As for this season, you will not find a better time to install a new quarterback with your offense. We know that Rex Grossman cannot be counted on, but John Beck has yet to show that he is as mistake prone as Rex. If we can cut out the INTs, fumbles and idiot throws to the other team that they miraculously fail to catch, then we might just see a little more productivity from our offensive group.[/quote]

So what happens if you put Beck in and he fumbles twice and throws three pics against Philly? Do you go back to Rex? I mean when does the carousel stop?

You bench Rex now and you can't go back to him in my opinion. That is why he won't be benched until he gets hurt or this team is out of contention.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=pg86;843698]Ok Im watching the replays....u know what...I don't think Rex is to blame...

1. Recievers aren't getting separation we are really missing Armstrong

2. Stop passing on 3rd and 3 Kyle

4. I'm seeing a ton of illegal touching on the guys covering fred davis thats going uncalled.

[B]Don't blame Rex cept for that 1 int[/B][/quote]

I totally agree with 90% of what you say -- it seems like Davis is getting mauled on offense and Rak/Kerrigan are getting mauled on defense with the refs choosing to ignore it. Kyle really has to improve the playcalling, that's two weeks now where it's been suspect.

That being said -- the Lauranitis INT was an awful decision at a pivotal point in the game. Also, Rex was super lucky, there were two picks where he hit the defender between the numbers and they didn't bring the picks in that could have been INTs.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

They have a RB carousel at 3-1 why not have a QB carousel spinning too?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843706]I totally agree with 90% of what you say -- it seems like Davis is getting mauled on offense and Rak/Kerrigan are getting mauled on defense with the refs choosing to ignore it. Kyle really has to improve the playcalling, that's two weeks now where it's been suspect.

That being said -- [B]the Lauranitis INT was an awful decision at a pivotal point in the game[/B]. Also, Rex was super lucky, there were two picks where he hit the defender between the numbers and they didn't bring the picks in that could have been INTs.[/quote]

If this team wants to be a contender, the QB can't throw the game away late in the game, period.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843706]I totally agree with 90% of what you say -- it seems like Davis is getting mauled on offense and Rak/Kerrigan are getting mauled on defense with the refs choosing to ignore it. Kyle really has to improve the playcalling, that's two weeks now where it's been suspect.

That being said -- the Lauranitis INT was an awful decision at a pivotal point in the game. Also, Rex was super lucky, there were two picks where he hit the defender between the numbers and they didn't bring the picks in that could have been INTs.[/quote]

You could also argue that he was super unlucky. Hightower drops an easy catch. Moss drops an easy catch. A great throw to (I believe) Gaffney on 3rd down is negated because of a questionable false start on Jammal Brown.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;843489]Pretty hard to bench your QB when you're 3-1, that's all I'm saying.[/quote]No it's not......and I'm only 3 min into the 2nd qtr on the review.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I'm ok with the RB carousel.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Shanahan bench Plummer for Cutler when I think the Broncos were 7-4 and atop the division...so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I wouldn't make the move and Beck isn't a rookie

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;843702]So what happens if you put Beck in and he fumbles twice and throws three pics against Philly? Do you go back to Rex? I mean when does the carousel stop?

You bench Rex now and you can't go back to him in my opinion. That is why he won't be benched until he gets hurt or this team is out of contention.[/quote]

Same thing that happens if you keep in Rex and he fumbles twice and throws 3 picks? But if Beck does it then fine you put back in Rex. Still Rex doesn't have the production to justify not considering Beck going into the bye.

I mean why do we keep on saying that the Redskins need to recreate the Hogs but God forbid we consider a QB switch, the type of coaching move that was seen relatively frequently during Gibbs I. By the way Shanahan isn't scared to bench a QB either. He benched Plummer in favor of a rookie Cutler when Plummer was a year removed from the Pro Bowl.

The bottom line is whats best for the team.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843687]Isn't that kind of reactive? I mean, if the warning signs are all there saying get rid of this guy, shouldn't the move be made [B]before[/B] he costs us a game?[/quote]

No. What happens if you replace him and Beck comes in and plays worse? Go back to Rex? Hell no. You don't pull Rex until it starts costing us games, at that point, you put in Beck and roll with him the rest of the way.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;843723]Shanahan bench Plummer for Cutler when I think the Broncos were 7-4 and atop the division...so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I wouldn't make the move and Beck isn't a rookie[/quote]

Besides, I think too many other things are clicking for the team overall.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;843718]You could also argue that he was super unlucky. Hightower drops an easy catch. Moss drops an easy catch. A great throw to (I believe) Gaffney on 3rd down is negated because of a questionable false start on Jammal Brown.[/quote]

Rex throws an awful ball on 3rd and 3 causing the skins to have to punt late in the game, underthrows Davis on another passing attempt -- we can go back and forth all day, he even had a play where he was flushed out of the pocket and didn't get it back to the line of scrimmage - a grounding penalty which the refs missed.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;843725]No. What happens if you replace him and Beck comes in and plays worse? Go back to Rex? Hell no. You don't pull Rex until it starts costing us games, at that point, you put in Beck and roll with him the rest of the way.[/quote]

What happens if Rex costs us a game or two and Beck comes in and plays really well?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843728]Rex throws an awful ball on 3rd and 3 causing the skins to have to punt late in the game, underthrows Davis on another passing attempt -- we can go back and forth all day, he even had a play where he was flushed out of the pocket and didn't get it back to the line of scrimmage - a grounding penalty which the refs missed.[/quote]

Exactly we can go back and forth that's why I don't tend to pay attention to the "well he could have an interception there" argument because it's easy to counter one "he could have" with another.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;843723]Shanahan bench Plummer for Cutler when I think the Broncos were 7-4 and atop the division...so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I wouldn't make the move[B] and Beck isn't a rookie[/B][/quote]

Bingo.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;843725]No. What happens if you replace him and Beck comes in and plays worse? Go back to Rex? Hell no. You don't pull Rex until it starts costing us games, at that point, you put in Beck and roll with him the rest of the way.[/quote]

I'll throw in my own cliche. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure :D

My main reason for considering Beck in the first place is a downward trend the last two games. And the usual excuses for poor QB play weren't in place for this game. The running game was excellent as was the protection (0 sacks on the day with only 4 QB hits). If you can get the Rex you got in week 1 then awesome, you don't replace that guy. However the guy we've seen the last two weeks at QB isn't that hard to replace. Also don't forget this is our bye week. If you're going to attempt a switch this is the ideal time.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843731]What happens if Rex costs us a game or two and Beck comes in and plays really well?[/quote]

the defense and running game carried us?

either way it doesnt matter to me. personally i never thought rex had a super strong arm but i thought we'd be seeing more of a PA long ball than we have seen so far. i dont remember may passes over the top so far this year. we've had a good bit of 20+ pass plays but nothing over the top which i thought our running game then PA roll out would set up.

ps dirt i meant to mention that. from the surface a what? 15 for 31, 149pass yds, 1 td 2 int stat line is piss poor for a qb who got sacked zero times. is that possibly they worst stat line, qb rating for a qb who got sacked zero times? elias sports bureau? i think his qb rating was 49 or something

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;843741]the defense and running game carried us?

either way it doesnt matter to me. personally[B] i never thought rex had a super strong arm[/B] but i thought we'd be seeing more of a PA long ball than we have seen so far. i dont remember may passes over the top so far this year. we've had a good bit of 20+ pass plays but nothing over the top which i thought our running game then PA roll out would set up.[/quote]

That part has confused me this year. Where did the "f**k it I'm going deep" "chicks dig the long ball" jokes start? And it's ironic to, in the offseason Beck was the guy with the pop gun arm and Grossman was the guy that could push the ball downfield.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;843736]Exactly we can go back and forth that's why I don't tend to pay attention to the "well he could have an interception there" argument because it's easy to counter one "he could have" with another.[/quote]

True, except with Rex, when it's late in the game, he makes mistake after mistake and it's been the knock on him his whole career.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;843724]Same thing that happens if you keep in Rex and he fumbles twice and throws 3 picks? But if Beck does it then fine you put back in Rex. Still [B]Rex doesn't have the production to justify not considering Beck going into the bye. [/B]

I mean why do we keep on saying that the Redskins need to recreate the Hogs but God forbid we consider a QB switch, the type of coaching move that was seen relatively frequently during Gibbs I. By the way Shanahan isn't scared to bench a QB either. He benched Plummer in favor of a rookie Cutler when Plummer was a year removed from the Pro Bowl.

The bottom line is whats best for the team.[/quote]


I would say that Rex doesn't have the lack of production to consider Beck. I would agree, however, that Beck doesn't have the production to consider Beck.lol

You go to Beck now you have to stick with him - barring an injury. That is the main reason I don't think it will happen. Shanny is not willing to make that gamble and potentially tank the season with the team sitting where it is. He would look like a fool if Beck came in and struggled - losing games single-handedly.