Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805373]Apparently you missed the draft threads, or the threads that Dirtbag did breaking down the plays. I think you just focus on the negative things I write instead of the positive. Also, there is a common theme (negative) with the posts because this franchise has been negative for the past decade. It's been blunder after blunder for so long. I've stated time and time again I'm happy with the direction of this franchise at it's current state and hope like hell Snyder stays the **** away to let Bruce and Mike do their thing.

Make no mistake about it, I've been wanting players like MeAngelo, Portis and Moss (and many others) gone for a long time. I think they were also part of the problem and culture that infected this team for quite sometime.[/quote]

I think you focus too much on guys like Portis, Moss or Hall. In the end, how the team performs has a lot to do with the coaching staff and front office. I am fine with the direction that this team is going, but I want to see more good decisions made by the front office and less of the stupid ones from last season (McNabb trade, keeping the Haynesworth issue alive, the McNabb benching).

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805373]Apparently you missed the draft threads, or the threads that Dirtbag did breaking down the plays. I think you just focus on the negative things I write instead of the positive. Also, there is a common theme (negative) with the posts because this franchise has been negative [B]for the past decade[/B]. It's been blunder after blunder for so long. I've stated time and time again I'm happy with the direction of this franchise at it's current state and hope like hell Snyder stays the **** away to let Bruce and Mike do their thing.

Make no mistake about it, I've been wanting players like MeAngelo, Portis and Moss (and many others) gone for a long time. I think they were also part of the problem and culture that infected this team for quite sometime.[/quote]

Now you are entirely too smart to make statements like that. So I get it, much like alot of Skins fans you focus on since Snyder got here. We were getting our asses kicked when Cooke 1 owned the team, while Cooke 2 looked over the team, and now while Snyder has owned the team. We didn't just start signing guys to big money for them to get here and not look as good as the contract number say they should. If you're going to talk about how bad the team is then make sure you accept the fact that Casserly ****ed up just like anyone else did. Still waiting on you to make it up this way so we can have that brew and discuss this team.

I don't focus solely on the negative things you say that's what I see on the threads I look at. I took flack here because while Iwas not the only one who disliked jason Campbell I acted like it. So I know where you are coming from where your opinion is your opnion but it's a lot like what I hear here on a certain sportstalk station that prides themselves on shitting on Danny and anything that goes on with him. Portis while a diva at times didn't deserve alot of the shit that he took but that's for another conversation.

I swear Danny needs to hire me !

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

It doesn't look to me like Santana "quit" there.

Granted, I wasn't a huge Redskins' fan back then, so maybe I'm missing the emotional attachment to that moment, but it looks like a bad throw by Todd Collins that Santana thought was going to go out of bounds. Maybe he could've come back to the ball, but I don't think he "quit" everything. He came out and ran his route hard.

Then when the ball was picked off he was trying to stop the guy. A guy who "quits" usually isn't a guy who's going to try and run anyone down.

I could be totally wrong though.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

I don't think Tana's production is as easily replaceable as people think.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=30gut;805384]I don't think Tana's production is as easily replaceable as people think.[/quote]

Same here. I don't think you can drop just anyone in the slot and have them catch 93 balls. Especially not a rookie. And I like all the rookie wideouts and second year guys we have.

But I still think you need that vet there to take the pressure off the young guys.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Having a veteran presence at WR is going to be huge with all the young guys we now have. Couple that with his production and I'd imagine he's going to be a high priority once the league opens for business.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=Mattyk;805354]Bottom line, is anyone else currently on the roster ready to step up and fill his shoes? Doubt it.[/quote]I can think of at least four guys who deserve the opportunity. And if they fail, they fail. But I think it's a better process than holding on dearly to whatever Moss can continue to give us in the next two years.

I agree with you that he'll be a hot commodity on the FA market. I can see both Portis and Moss in New England next year. They are very much the Belichick kind of player.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

PORTIS is a Belichick type of player!?

In what world?

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NLC1054;805409]PORTIS is a Belichick type of player!?

In what world?[/quote]The world where putting a blitzing ILB on his ass is a skill desired to allow Brady to get the ball down the field to less-than-ideal deep threats.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805350]



I don't see Banks making the cut. The WRs that were drafted this off-season all have return experience. If that isn't writing on the wall then I don't know what is. I"m quite positive Banks is one of those "club" guys that Willie Parker was referring to as well. Banks doesn't really bring anything to the table at the WR spot. (at least Cribbs and Hester do)[/quote]

Why would we get rid of possibly the 2nd or 3rd best return man in the game? Because of some worthless thug at a nightclub that thinks it's alright to stab people?

How long has it been since we've had an elite return man? Have you guys already gotten cocky and forgotten how much of a pain it was to have ARE go left and right or having only solid but not great returns from Rock Cartwright and Ladell?

With penalties this past year he took the ball yard 5 or 6 times. I seriously doubt the team would get rid of him.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805415]The world where putting a blitzing ILB on his ass is a skill desired to allow Brady to get the ball down the field to less-than-ideal deep threats.[/quote]

And what about staying quiet and not causing any drama and speaking out?

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Banks when healthy was downright electrifying last year, how many returns did he have called back due to penalty? I think they will find a spot for him, he's just too good on returns to let go.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;805423]Banks when healthy was downright electrifying last year, how many returns did he have called back due to penalty? I think they will find a spot for him, he's just too good on returns to let go.[/QUOTE]

I agree. When he stepped on the field we had a real sense of anticipation. It was exciting and they need to bring him back. WR slots will be at a premium this year. Hope we get a good crew out of the bunch.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NLC1054;805419]And what about staying quiet and not causing any drama and speaking out?[/quote]Who cares, really? That can be problematic in Washington when the team loses every year and Portis gets to put his take on what went wrong, but in New England stuff like that would never happen.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NLC1054;805409]PORTIS is a Belichick type of player!?

In what world?[/quote]

I agree w/GT & I've been saying it for a while too, NE might be a good place for CP. Belicheck signs aging vets for specialty roles & he keeps some around a long time, e.g. Troy Brown & Kevin Faulk, who was really a very avg. RB, but became a reliable 3rd down back. CP can play that role in NE.

Belicheck has brought in guys just as mouthy as CP; e.g. R.Moss, Rodney Harrison.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Keep moss. Period.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805408]I can think of at least four guys who deserve the opportunity. And if they fail, they fail. But I think it's a better process than holding on dearly to whatever Moss can continue to give us in the next two years.

[B]I agree with you that he'll be a hot commodity on the FA market. I can see both Portis and Moss in New England next year. They are very much the Belichick kind of player.[/quote][/B]

[B]Not sure about CP but Moss would thrive there. [/B]

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Not sure why Moss would want to come back to a team with no QB and one that isn't going to the playoffs.....unless he feels this is the place that will pay the most for his services.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=Mattyk;805423]Banks when healthy was downright electrifying last year, how many returns did he have called back due to penalty? I think they will find a spot for him, he's just too good on returns to let go.[/quote]

X2. He flips the filed position. Gotta find a way to keep Banks.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=skinsfan69;805491]Not sure why Moss would want to come back to a team with no QB and one that isn't going to the playoffs.....unless he feels this is the place that will pay the most for his services.[/quote]

Because he doesn't want to latch onto a team that's already succcessful. After everything he's put into this team he wants to win or lose with the Redskins. He'd rather win with a team he's dedicated most of his career to than just be be an add-on to an already winning team. And he'd rather not see the Redskins be successful without him

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NLC1054;805419]And what about staying quiet and not causing any drama and speaking out?[/quote]

Darth Hoody can actually work with character players and gets production out of them. And if they don't work out, then he just gets rid of them.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805408]I can think of at least four guys who deserve the opportunity. And if they fail, they fail. But I think it's a better process than holding on dearly to whatever Moss can continue to give us in the next two years.

I agree with you that he'll be a hot commodity on the FA market. I can see both Portis and Moss in New England next year. They are very much the Belichick kind of player.[/quote]Even if we're rebuilding (which I doubt) it makes sense for an offense to have a foundation.

Our best offensive unit was our passing game.
Moss was the focal point of a passing attack that only had 1 other viable WR threat yet was still able to produce like a top WR.
If you take Moss out of the equation you're asking an unproven group of WRs to become the focal point of the best unit (arguably the only good unit) on this team.

And even if Moss is re-signed all those wasted targets that went to Joey Galloway and Roydel Williams would be enough to for at least 1 other WR threat to emerge.

And 1 other target would help an already good passing attack be even better.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=30gut;805507]Even if we're rebuilding (which I doubt) it makes sense for an offense to have a foundation.

Our best offensive unit was our passing game.
Moss was the focal point of a passing attack that only had 1 other viable WR threat yet was still able to produce like a top WR.
If you take Moss out of the equation you're asking an unproven group of WRs to become the focal point of the best unit (arguably the only good unit) on this team.

And even if Moss is re-signed all those wasted targets that went to Joey Galloway and Roydel Williams would be enough to for at least 1 other WR threat to emerge.

And 1 other target would help an already good passing attack be even better.[/quote]Ultimately, I don't believe Santana is going to be part of the foundation of the offense. You could be right. We might let him walk, and he signs elsewhere, and then we watch Armstrong struggle with additional coverage on him, and Kelly can't get on the field, and Terrence Austin gets easily taken away by single coverage. Then there is no foundation on which to build the receiving corps until Hankerson develops.

But at the very least, in the absolute worst case scenario, Hankerson would get the opportunities to produce as a no. 1 type as a rookie, and he can't do that if Moss is here. I would prefer to just do what Tampa Bay did, and not extend Antonio Bryant into his mid thirties, but rather take the steal of the draft at the receiver position, put him on the field, and end up with a "Top 100" player four months later.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Ugh, I hate the term number one receiver sometimes...

A lot of what you're saying is, essentially, that it'd be worth it to have guys struggle if the young guys get time on the field. But having a super young receiving core and an inexperienced/less-than-ideal quarterback doesn't always work the way it did for Josh Freeman.

I mean, if Moss wants to be here, and he's willing to sign a fair deal to stay here and retire as a Redskin, I don't see the harm. You can still position Leonard Hankerson as the number one receiver of the future (if he develops into that), but you don't put the pressure on him to bear the brunt of the offensive load on day one. And who knows when the lockout really ends. He might have the playbook but Hank still doesn't have the coaching and hasn't seen live action. What if Hank gets hurt in training camp?

I think in a situation like the Redskins are in, even in rebuild mode, they need to have a veteran guy who can be counted on every game at most positions, so the rookies don't feel as though the world is always on their shoulders.

If he comes cheap and wants to be here I don't see the problem.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

i want him back no question. he had a solid year last year and we need a vet at WR, someone to mentor all the young guys. he's still a threat and with the lockout looming it's safer to have sure things like Santana.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805529]Ultimately, I don't believe Santana is going to be part of the foundation of the offense. You could be right. We might let him walk, and he signs elsewhere, and then we watch Armstrong struggle with additional coverage on him, and Kelly can't get on the field, and Terrence Austin gets easily taken away by single coverage. Then there is no foundation on which to build the receiving corps until Hankerson develops.

But at the very least, in the absolute worst case scenario, Hankerson would get the opportunities to produce as a no. 1 type as a rookie, and he can't do that if Moss is here. I would prefer to just do what Tampa Bay did, and not extend Antonio Bryant into his mid thirties, but rather take the steal of the draft at the receiver position, put him on the field, and end up with a "Top 100" player four months later.[/quote]

Why'd you choose Antonio Bryant for comparison?

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805529]Ultimately, I don't believe Santana is going to be part of the foundation of the offense. You could be right. We might let him walk, and he signs elsewhere, and then we watch Armstrong struggle with additional coverage on him, and Kelly can't get on the field, and Terrence Austin gets easily taken away by single coverage. Then there is no foundation on which to build the receiving corps until Hankerson develops.

But at the very least, in the absolute worst case scenario, Hankerson would get the opportunities to produce as a no. 1 type as a rookie, and he can't do that if Moss is here. I would prefer to just do what Tampa Bay did, and not extend Antonio Bryant into his mid thirties, but rather take the steal of the draft at the receiver position, put him on the field, and end up with a "Top 100" player four months later.[/quote]

Just because Santana could resign does not mean he would stay as the "number 1 receiver". He could easily move to the slot, a position that he would be very good at, while leaving the outside routes to Hankerson, AA and the like. Shanny is about putting the best players on the field no matter what the age or tenure on the team. This isn't old Redskins football anymore IMO. If Hankerson and AA play better than Santana, if he resigns, then they will play more than Santana. I would like to see Santana in the slot regardless.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=NLC1054;805419]And what about staying quiet and not causing any drama and speaking out?[/quote]

Portis is one of those "soft" drama-causers that unleashes that side of him when there isn't anyone in the family punishing him harshly enough or threatening such punishment clearly enough. He shut up under Shanahan, but he was given "star" favoritism under Gibbs. That's the difference.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;805529]Ultimately, I don't believe Santana is going to be part of the foundation of the offense. You could be right. We might let him walk, and he signs elsewhere, and then we watch Armstrong struggle with additional coverage on him, and Kelly can't get on the field, and Terrence Austin gets easily taken away by single coverage. Then there is no foundation on which to build the receiving corps until Hankerson develops.

But at the very least, in the absolute worst case scenario, Hankerson would get the opportunities to produce as a no. 1 type as a rookie, and he can't do that if Moss is here. I would prefer to just do what Tampa Bay did, and not extend Antonio Bryant into his mid thirties, but rather take the steal of the draft at the receiver position, put him on the field, and end up with a "Top 100" player four months later.[/QUOTE]
The re-signing Moss discussion or the wether to start a rookie WR/young WRs question is kinda similar to the wether or not start a rookie QB.

And I understand your point about the young receivers needing playing time i.e targets.

But with Moss as the focal point of the passing game, where Kyle moves him around a lot: flanker, slot and some split end it creates a good environment for a WR to break in.
Moss is still a respected player that draws attention from opposing defenses.
And there are still available targets (Joey's and Roydell's) that would give the young receivers a chance to get on the field in favorable situations where they have a better opportunity for success because Moss is on the field.

It may only be a limited role (at first) but their production, however limited, would be a boon to the passing game that could develop into a bigger part if they're up to the task.

Damn,we need a QB.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=SkinzWin;805704]Just because Santana could resign does not mean he would stay as the "number 1 receiver". He could easily move to the slot, a position that he would be very good at, while leaving the outside routes to Hankerson, AA and the like. Shanny is about putting the best players on the field no matter what the age or tenure on the team. This isn't old Redskins football anymore IMO. If Hankerson and AA play better than Santana, if he resigns, then they will play more than Santana. I would like to see Santana in the slot regardless.[/quote]

The utility Moss will provide this team post-33 years of age will likely be a big goose-egg. It might seem unjust, but I care about the team's welfare more than I care about one player. The team needs assets that will provide more than just one more good year for us. We need players who have provide at least 5 years of service.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;805709]The utility Moss will provide this team post-33 years of age will likely be a big goose-egg. It might seem unjust, but I care about the team's welfare more than I care about one player. The team needs assets that will provide more than just one more good year for us. We need players who have provide at least 5 years of service.[/quote]

I disagree, he is definitely not the Santana of old, but he did have a good year last year and even if he is not the best receiver on the team anymore, which I am not yet convinced is the case, he can still contribute off the bench, in the slot, and especially as a mentor to the young WR corp we now have that needs a guiding hand. If you are saying he has shown that he will not be able to provide for this team 5 years down the road, I agree with you. But to say not to resign someone that can help us next exclusively because they will not contribute 5 years down the road is ludicrous. He can help us now and why would we not want someone who can help this team next year?

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;805709]The utility Moss will provide this team post-33 years of age will likely be a big goose-egg. It might seem unjust, but I care about the team's welfare more than I care about one player. The team needs assets that will provide more than just one more good year for us. We need players who have provide at least 5 years of service.[/quote]

So you think Santana will move from first on the stat chart (by a wide margin) to......last in the space of one off-season?
THAT should be interesting indeed.

BTW, your beliefs are idiotic!

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=Hog1;805712]So you think Santana will move from first on the stat chart (by a wide margin) to......last in the space of one off-season?
THAT should be interesting indeed.

BTW, your beliefs are idiotic![/quote]

Not sure if you read him correctly. He said "[B]post 33 years of age[/B]". He's currently 32, so I'm assuming he's saying he's got one more year of productivity until he's pretty much done. His belief isn't that idiotic.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Perhaps I was premature.
BTW, the "idiotic" thing was from another thread. I was just trying it out to see if I liked it but I thank you for your input!

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=SkinzWin;805711]I disagree, he is definitely not the Santana of old, but he did have a good year last year and even if he is not the best receiver on the team anymore, which I am not yet convinced is the case, he can still contribute off the bench, in the slot, and especially as a mentor to the young WR corp we now have that needs a guiding hand. If you are saying he has shown that he will not be able to provide for this team 5 years down the road, I agree with you. But to say not to resign someone that can help us next exclusively because they will not contribute 5 years down the road is ludicrous. He can help us now and why would we not want someone who can help this team next year?[/quote]

Will Moss improve the returns on Hankerson, Armstrong, etc to be worth the risk of letting a Antonio Dixon of WRs to slip away? Moss isn't going to transplant his younger legs to the other receivers. If we're to keep Moss for one more year, he better be a hell of a "wise teacher" to improve the games of Hank, Armstrong, etc.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

[quote=Hog1;805715]Perhaps I was premature.
BTW, the "idiotic" thing was from another thread. I was just trying it out to see if I liked it but I thank you for your input![/quote]

Counter-intuitive and [I]potentially[/I] idiotic. ;)

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Of course we should resign Moss.... of course.

Id like to nab Randy Moss or Plaxico ALSO..
but that may be a longshot at this point.
Santana FIRST before anything.
He's so underrated and productive its sickening. No brainer here.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Arguements are good on both sides for Moss. As long as Moss is the only WR free agent we sign, im great with it. Im a strong strong believer in getting a positive, productive Vetern at every key group on the team while in this rebuilding process. We need vetern leadership to help make this transition. Moss with the young bunch of WRs is nothing but a positive. He is also our go to guy when we need a big play, cant lose that right now. Bring Moss back...but i dont want mutiple vets at WR, just Moss.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Keep it short term and a sensible deal $$ wise.

Re: Moss WANTS to be a Redskin
 

Oh noes! I mean what the heck. Did he not pay attention during the Bears game?
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/08/bears-potential-suitors-for-santana-moss/]Bears potential suitors for Santana Moss | ProFootballTalk[/url]