Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

He better look in the freakin mirror before he call guys out.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;598052]He seems like he's one blow up away from just naming names.

Out with it Hall, you really couldn't make this team any worse.

He's gotta be talking about Haynesworth and Landry.[/quote]

That would be sweet...we all want to know.
This team just has no heart...plain and simple.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

putting this together with his locker room interview I think he's talking about the younger guys, not so much Big Al and Landry.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

i've soured on zorn for many reasons, but, i was thinking that before this game today, if we lost, we should still stick with zorn through the season... i'm not a knee-jerk fan...

however, i could tell that the players didn't care today, especially in the first half, especially the defense, except for fletcher, jc, doughty, rocky, horton... i think that zorn and/or blache have lost the locker room... if the players aren't going to give it their all because of a coach--whether the reason is just or not--it's time to let the coach go...

the players don't believe in zorn, and if that's the case, we're not winning many (any?) more games this year...

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

I'd take that a step further. Zorn being a bad coach has nothing to do with the Detroit loss. The Redskins just feature all the aspects of a poorly coached team: sideline disorganization, poor tempo in the huddle, playing time going to people who have not earned it, and lots of decisions being made to sustain rather than on merit. None of those things actually significantly hurt your chances of winning (though the disorganization on the sideline doesn't help), and certainly none of those things contributed to the loss to the Lions.

But whether because Zorn has too many responsibilities, and not enough help, or because he's failing at his job, the result is a team that is poorly coached, and that can stunt player development.

One reason I like Jon Gruden is because he's a complete workaholic and can handle many hats. I think Zorn is putting in the same time that Holmgren did, but he's got way more control over the long term direction of the franchise than Mike did down the stretch in Seattle. Understandably, I think he's cutting some corners.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=GreekSkin;598063]putting this together with his locker room interview I think he's talking about the younger guys, not so much Big Al and Landry.[/quote]

Look at the venom in his eyes though. It looks like a loathing leer. I don't think he could harbor that kind of hate for younger players like Tryon or McIntosh.

Also why would the younger players be thinking of something else. I took "thinking of something else" as counting their money.

Speculation on my part of course.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

That could very well be it actually but I originally took "thinking of something else" as thinking of all the money/fame they could be have without actually putting it out on the field.

You might be right though

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

This team looks old out there. The D-Line has no pass rush with Daniels and Carter starting at DE we get no pressure. Teams keep us off balance by throwing on 1st downs and keeping the down and distance short on 3rd down. Our defense is sad on 3rd down which keeps them on the field and our offense off the field. Our defense does not score any points and they seem to react to the others teams offense instead of dictating the game to them. We don't attack the opponets offense we appeared to wait and react. Greg Williams dictated the game and did not give a rats ass what they were going to do. We made them adjust to what we were doing. This put the offense at a disadvantage. Why we did not give Greg Williams a chance is beyond me.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

Zorn will never be confused with Vince Lombardi but he is stuck coaching a bunch of no account losers. Its sad.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;598052]He seems like he's one blow up away from just naming names.

Out with it Hall, you really couldn't make this team any worse.

He's gotta be talking about Haynesworth and Landry.[/quote]

I don't get the Haynesworth stuff today. Dude was carted off the field, then came back to play in a game we were losing, at less than 100%. For a guy just cashing it in, he would have stayed in the locker room with his feet up sipping a YooHoo.

It was really clear that yesterday was a mail-in and I'd expect to see more of the same in upcoming weeks. Strahan called it from 1500 miles away in the studio yesterday when he said we quit. The sad thing was he was more fired up than any of our players was all day long.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

I'm just glad one of the players is actually saying it and it's not just all of us thinking it.

I don't think that we as fans really car much about this team anymore. I am a die hard I

just can't let the Redskins affect my mood the way they do when I have no control over

the product on the field. And now that DH ( who by the way is awful and VC just threw

more of DS money out of the window ) has come out and said what we all feel like we

are watching I could give a shit. I live in SC was going to see the team play in Carolina,

Atlanta, and Dc a couple of times this year. Now though I will chill out at home and

watch. We are not going to waste the time and money going to stadiums to see this piss

poor effort.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

I didn't really see alot from our CB's yesterday, so i don't think D Hall should be doing alot of talking. He's good at talking though. Talking has gotten him paid 50 Million for being an average nfl CB.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=poopoobigelow;598065]i've soured on zorn for many reasons, but, i was thinking that before this game today, if we lost, we should still stick with zorn through the season... i'm not a knee-jerk fan...

however, i could tell that the players didn't care today, especially in the first half, especially the defense, except for fletcher, jc, doughty, rocky, horton... [B]i think that zorn and/or blache have lost the locker room...[/B] if the players aren't going to give it their all because of a coach--whether the reason is just or not--it's time to let the coach go...

[B]the players don't believe in zorn, and if that's the case, we're not winning many (any?) more games this year...[/B][/quote]

It would appear that you have nailed it. I suppose Zorn could turn it around, but he would need a sweeping change beginning now. Right now.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=redsk1;598231]I didn't really see alot from our CB's yesterday, so i don't think D Hall should be doing alot of talking. He's good at talking though. Talking has gotten him paid 50 Million for being an average nfl CB.[/quote]

Yeah, I don't know that D.Hall is the right guy to be calling everyone out. There's a little pot-kettle thing there.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

If the pot's right, does it really matter whether it came from him or someone else?

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;598241]If the pot's right, does it really matter whether it came from him or someone else?[/quote]

Good point.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Lotus;598327]Good point.[/quote]

Now that is some serious disdain Lotus. Mutiny is one thing, the Cowboys is another.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;598331]Now that is some serious disdain Lotus. Mutiny is one thing, the Cowboys is another.[/quote]

I'm not rooting for the Cowboys, just extending my shame and being true to my word. It never seriously occurred to me that we might lose to the Lions so I made a foolish vow.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

Thank god I didn't watch the game or I might have gone insane. What an awful and sad bunch. While I'm not ready to mail the season in I'm more inclined to want to see Zorn replaced at the end of the season.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

If it were mine to do, I would have a lot of new faces in the starting line-up that ARE eager to play. Just as the "5-things" article states. PLAY THE F....N YOUNG GUYS!!!
AT LEAST...they will play hard.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

Zorn has to learn how to let go of things...the play calling first and foremost. He's wearing way too many hats for a first time head coach who is 3-8 in his last 11, and still coaching as if he's 6-2 like he started. And while the Lions were eventually going to win 1, the Skins blew too many opportunities to take the pace and tempo over. While the Lions played perfect ball in the 1st half and exploited the Skins weak showing, they made mistakes in the 2nd half that the Skins did not capitalize on.

I think if it hasn't happened already, the locker room and the front office is losing faith and support for Zorn. He is going to have to do something in order for these guys to stop mailing it in.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;598370]Zorn has to learn how to let go of things...the play calling first and foremost. He's wearing way too many hats for a first time head coach who is 3-8 in his last 11, and still coaching as if he's 6-2 like he started. And while the Lions were eventually going to win 1, the Skins blew too many opportunities to take the pace and tempo over. While the Lions played perfect ball in the 1st half and exploited the Skins weak showing, they made mistakes in the 2nd half that the Skins did not capitalize on.

I think if it hasn't happened already, the locker room and the front office is losing faith and support for Zorn. He is going to have to do something in order for these guys to stop mailing it in.[/quote]

I think it's safe to say he's too emotionally caught up in the RZ struggles right now and it's impacting his play calling and decision making.

I know he wanted to make an early statement by going for it on 4th down, but he should have taken the 3 as bitter of a pill that would have been to swallow, it's something he needed to do.

Also, he should have declined the penalty and made the Lions kick the FG. Think it would have been a 49 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Instead the Lions got the first down and it was a big momentum changer with the TD.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;598374]I think it's safe to say he's too emotionally caught up in the RZ struggles right now and it's impacting his play calling and decision making.

I know he wanted to make an early statement by going for it on 4th down, but he should have taken the 3 as bitter of a pill that would have been to swallow, it's something he needed to do.

Also, he should have declined the penalty and made the Lions kick the FG. Think it would have been a 49 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Instead the Lions got the first down and it was a big momentum changer with the TD.[/quote]

I absolutely agree, I was saying the same thing yesterday afternoon. I know that we are struggling in the redzone, but let's take any points we can get. Work harder on scoring on 1st and 2nd down in the redzone. Leave fourth down for the almost automatic points.

I prefer trading a down for distance in most situations. I cant stand giving guys extra chances to succeed.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;598374]I think it's safe to say he's too emotionally caught up in the RZ struggles right now and it's impacting his play calling and decision making.

I know he wanted to make an early statement by going for it on 4th down, but he should have taken the 3 as bitter of a pill that would have been to swallow, it's something he needed to do.

Also, he should have declined the penalty and made the Lions kick the FG. Think it would have been a 49 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Instead the Lions got the first down and it was a big momentum changer with the TD.[/quote]

I think Zorn has too much confidence in his players. He believed in his O line enough to think they could get 1 yard against a bad team when he asked them but they couldnt so he asked his D to stop the Lions at somepoint on a 99 yd drive but they couldnt. Zorn was making a statement and it was a statement that he believed in his players, unfortunately his belief was misplaced.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;598374]I think it's safe to say he's too emotionally caught up in the RZ struggles right now and it's impacting his play calling and decision making.

I know he wanted to make an early statement by going for it on 4th down, but he should have taken the 3 as bitter of a pill that would have been to swallow, it's something he needed to do.

Also, he should have declined the penalty and made the Lions kick the FG. Think it would have been a 49 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Instead the Lions got the first down and it was a big momentum changer with the TD.[/quote]

The 4th & I; maybe he should've kicked. I don't have a problem w/going for it, but I said to my wife "don't run portis left!" Of course, that's what they did, just as they did v. the Rams twice on 4th & 1 last week.

I totally agreed w/the 3rd down penalty, so did B. Billick. The Skins D should be able to stop a rookie qb on 3rd & 13. They did a great job in coverage, but couldn't get to the qb. Still, I think that was the absolute right call.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=freddyg12;598411][B]The 4th & I; maybe he should've kicked. I don't have a problem w/going for it, but I said to my wife "don't run portis left!" Of course, that's what they did, just as they did v. the Rams twice on 4th & 1 last week.[/B]

I totally agreed w/the 3rd down penalty, so did B. Billick. The Skins D should be able to stop a rookie qb on 3rd & 13. They did a great job in coverage, but couldn't get to the qb. Still, I think that was the absolute right call.[/quote]

This is where I think that Zorn lacks the brains or guts to be an NFL head coach. What do we know about the Redskins running game? That we are a stretch left based running game. That's what we want to do when we're up against it. 4th and 1, we go bulk personnel and we do exactly what the scouting report says we will, with predictable results. The play SHOULD have been fake stretch left, QB boot.

The bootleg (to the wide side of the field no less) was WIDE OPEN. The backside CB crashed down so even if there was only 1 TE in the pattern, we would have had either Campbell walking into the end zone or an easy toss to the TE. If I can figure that out from my easy chair, why can't Zorn figure it out from the sidelines?

It's that denseness/arrogance/idiocy that will ultimately get him fired.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Paintrain;598419]This is where I think that Zorn lacks the brains or guts to be an NFL head coach. What do we know about the Redskins running game? That we are a stretch left based running game. That's what we want to do when we're up against it. 4th and 1, we go bulk personnel and we do exactly what the scouting report says we will, with predictable results. The play SHOULD have been fake stretch left, QB boot.

The bootleg (to the wide side of the field no less) was WIDE OPEN. The backside CB crashed down so even if there was only 1 TE in the pattern, we would have had either Campbell walking into the end zone or an easy toss to the TE. If I can figure that out from my easy chair, why can't Zorn figure it out from the sidelines?

It's that denseness/arrogance/idiocy that will ultimately get him fired.[/quote]I don't know. It's game three, and last year for the first 11 weeks or so, we could get that same yard whenever the hell we wanted it.

At this point, I would say we're probably not going to be able to pound for that yard whenever we want to get it, but the notion that we should be able to get a yard on the GL by keeping it simple can't be understated.

Of course, if it ain't true, it ain't true. Then you have to show the defense something alternative.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=freddyg12;598411]The 4th & I; maybe he should've kicked. I don't have a problem w/going for it, but I said to my wife "don't run portis left!" Of course, that's what they did, just as they did v. the Rams twice on 4th & 1 last week.

I totally agreed w/the 3rd down penalty, so did B. Billick. The Skins D should be able to stop a rookie qb on 3rd & 13. They did a great job in coverage, but couldn't get to the qb. Still, I think that was the absolute right call.[/quote]

I don't put much stock in what Billick says the guy can't even get names right. Also, I think Billick is a little too soft when it comes to calling out guys. If you took everything he said to heart yesterday you would think nobody did anything wrong all day.

I just don't see the need to give an offense the opportunity to extend a drive. 3rd and 13 isn't that horrible of a situation to be in.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;598478]I don't put much stock in what Billick says the guy can't even get names right. Also, I think Billick is a little too soft when it comes to calling out guys. If you took everything he said to heart yesterday you would think nobody did anything wrong all day.

I just don't see the need to give an offense the opportunity to extend a drive. 3rd and 13 isn't that horrible of a situation to be in.[/quote]

Billick initially said Zorn did the wrong thing, and then Billick quickly changed his mind. The worst part about it is that the ref who made the call looked to the Skins' bench and made the "decline" signal, but of course zany Zorn took the penalty instead. The way the Lions were moving the ball on that drive, you make them kick the FG.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;598374]I think it's safe to say he's too emotionally caught up in the RZ struggles right now and it's impacting his play calling and decision making.

I know he wanted to make an early statement by going for it on 4th down, but he should have taken the 3 as bitter of a pill that would have been to swallow, it's something he needed to do.

Also, he should have declined the penalty and made the Lions kick the FG. Think it would have been a 49 yarder, not exactly a chip shot. Instead the Lions got the first down and it was a big momentum changer with the TD.[/quote]


Two major screw ups that I think cost him the players confidence during that game.

First - at least in the first 3 quarters, always take the points if it gives you the lead. You had three plays to get in the end zone. You didn't. You couldn't last week. You couldn't this week. Show us you can learn something yourself.

Second - make the other team earn it. 13 yards is a make-able 3rd down. The penalty moved then back from the 33 to 42 yard line. This gives them another shot and the way our defense plays, we are defending the 1st yard marker so any short dump off could have potentially put them back in FG range anyway. Defense may be a little tired now after being kept on the field for a 66 yard drive. To much downside to give them another shot.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=irish;598395]I think Zorn has too much confidence in his players. He believed in his O line enough to think they could get 1 yard against a bad team when he asked them but they couldnt so he asked his D to stop the Lions at somepoint on a 99 yd drive but they couldnt. Zorn was making a statement and it was a statement that he believed in his players, unfortunately his belief was misplaced.[/quote]

I agree. It's pretty sad if a HC doesn't have enough confidence in his o-line to get 1 yard, and if you can't stop a team from driving the field that's starting from it's own 1 yard line, well..that's just as sad. How many other 99 yard drives has Detroit had this year? I sure as hell didn't expect it. Had no reason to.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

I got what I wanted, free toppings baby! Yeah!

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;598590]I got what I wanted, free toppings baby! Yeah![/quote]

I was a sad panda after the Rams game.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;598590]I got what I wanted, free toppings baby! Yeah![/quote]

That was the only highlight of yesterday.

BTW, it Should Read GySgt. R. Lee Ermy

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Angry;598621]That was the only highlight of yesterday.

BTW, it Should Read GySgt. R. Lee Ermy[/quote]

He didn't play himself in the movie.

Re: "A Lot of These Guys Don't Want It"
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;598630]He didn't play himself in the movie.[/quote]


True, but it was his improvisation and dialogue. According to Wiki he wrote his own lines.

[quote]he was only intended to be the technical advisor, but Kubrick changed his mind after Ermey put together an instructional tape to convince Kubrick he was the right person for the role, in which Ermey went on an extended hair-raising drill instructor tirade towards several [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Marines"][COLOR=#0000ff]Royal Marines[/COLOR][/URL] cast as extras, all the while being pelted by oranges and tennis balls, and managing to do so without repeating himself, stopping, or even flinching.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Lee_Ermey#cite_note-0"][COLOR=#0000ff][1][/COLOR][/URL] Kubrick allowed him to write his own dialogue and improvise on set (including a hilariously obscene observation on the proper etiquette of sodomy), a noted rarity [/quote]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Lee_Ermey]R. Lee Ermey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]