Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

Using the graph, the 13 most prolific passers from last year were:

Brees
Warner
Pennington
Schaub
Delhomme
Rivers
Peyton
Garcia
Cutler
Rodgers
Romo
Cassel
Edwards

Which sounds about right, or at least acceptable.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Schneed10;567740]Campbell ranks 7th in accuracy, yeah that's nice. But the yards per attempt rank in the bottom half (below the median). This lends credence to the naysayers in this thread: Campbell was indeed accurate but he was not going downfield like other QBs.

Of course, this is reflective of the terrible O line, high drop rate by our WRs, and reflective of Zorn's mid-season adjustment to reign in the passing game getting more conservative to protect the football from a failing offensive line. It is not an indictment of Campbell.

It encapsulates more of the entire picture: Campbell is accurate, but we didn't get the yardage we needed. Question is, will we get the yardage if the line and WRs improve? I say we will, but we'll have to wait and see.[/quote]Yeah, although it says less about what he was doing, and more about what he wasn't succeeding at.

Campbell's YPA declined sharply in the second half of the year, to 2008 Seattle type levels. This makes intuitive sense, since we run the same system, and Seattle was absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

Would anyone call Hasselbeck or Wallace a dunker? Perhaps, but I think Hasselbeck has a track record that suggests they are capable of winning in this league. Campbell doesn't have the track record, but the evidence that he will get it some day is substancial.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

It's interesting that Jet Favre is just a hair up the way on the same trendline from Campbell. Favre was a major dunker last year, which made him a surprise top five inclusion on the accuracy list.

The league MVP was just a little farther up on the same trendline.

Translation: this offense can work.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=GTripp0012;567742]Yeah, although it says less about what he was doing, and more about what he wasn't succeeding at.

Campbell's YPA declined sharply in the second half of the year, to 2008 Seattle type levels. This makes intuitive sense, since we run the same system, and Seattle was absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

Would anyone call Hasselbeck or Wallace a dunker? Perhaps, but I think they have a track record that suggests they are capable of winning in this league. Campbell doesn't have the track record, but the evidence that he will get it some day is substancial.[/quote]

I would agree wholeheartedly.

If given a Seattle circa 2007 offensive line, Campbell would put up Hasselbeck circa 2007 numbers (91.4 QB rating, 3966 yds, 63% comp, 28 TD, 12 INT). There's empirical evidence to support that.

However, there's no empirical evidence to suggest our offensive line will be any better this year than last. We just have hopes of improvement by Heyer, or Bridges, or Mike Williams. And we have hopes that Randy Thomas can come back from injury. But it's still a big question mark.

I think we'd agree that with a Redskins line circa 2008, Campbell will not post numbers any better than Campbell circa 2008.

But Campbell's not the problem. We have to just hope Vinny and Danny can see that.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

What I'm struggling with explaining is how the offense rebounded for two weeks in the middle of the second half.

Against Seattle, and against the Giants, their opponent adjusted numbers on offense are above their season average (which itself, is weighted up by the run in weeks 2-5). This was coming off their worst five games stretch of the season (Week 6-Week 11).

There was some adjustment that Zorn made that got the offense functioning again, despite the overall decline of the unit. It wasn't until the Baltimore game that we finally got overmatched in terms of injuries of personnel.

That's my project for this week. Find out what Zorn corrected in the middle of November that got the offense working again, and why they were a non-functional group for most of the middle of the season.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

For those who are interested, I have week by week DVOA graphs for the 2008 season up on my blog.

[url=http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/07/2008-redskins-dvoa-graphs.html]2008 Redskins DVOA Graphs - Hog Heaven[/url]

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Ruhskins;567706]and b/c you don't like Campbell.[/quote]

um he ranks in the bottom five of the league for yards per completion. the guy doesnt throw down the field so of course his accuracy is going to be better.

its not my opinion, its a fact

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=redskins1974;567749]um he ranks in the bottom five of the league for yards per completion. [B]the guy doesnt throw down the field so of course his accuracy is going to be better.[/B]

its not my opinion, its a fact[/quote]

But it's not his fault he doesn't throw down the field. He can't throw down the field without protection.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Schneed10;567750]But it's not his fault he doesn't throw down the field. He can't throw down the field without protection.[/quote]

Or when his receivers are ranking high in drops. Specifically Santana, I assume that the majority of his drops were long balls that could have had a solid impact on his YPC avg.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Schneed10;567734]This means CP, on average, caught his 28 receptions about one yard behind the line of scrimmage, ran 8.7 yards, and netted 7.8 on the play.

Makes sense. He was the target on dump offs and screens.[/quote]

Oh yeah that would make sense. You're so smart

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;567751]Or when his receivers are ranking high in drops. [B]Specifically Santana, I assume that the majority of his drops were long balls that could have had a solid impact on his YPC avg.[/B][/quote]

Or even could have won the game against Dallas, a win which would have made JC look better.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Lotus;567754]Or even could have won the game against Dallas, a win which would have made JC look better.[/quote]

or the in the Arizona game, where a wide open Thomas caught the mid ranger for a TD, but there was the penalty.

So many missed opportunities last year. I am so optimistic and excited for this year. I think the Skins, and Campbell, have a golden chance to take the next step!

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;567755]or the in the Arizona game, where a wide open Thomas caught the mid ranger for a TD, but there was the penalty.

So many missed opportunities last year. I am so optimistic and excited for this year. I think the Skins, and Campbell, have a golden chance to take the next step![/quote]

:food-smil

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=redskins1974;567749]um he ranks in the bottom five of the league for yards per completion. the guy doesnt throw down the field so of course his accuracy is going to be better.

its not my opinion, its a fact[/quote]

But still, you don't like Campbell, so any of your statements are going to be biased and just focus on the negative. I'm just pointing it out just as you pointed this out...

[quote=redskins1974;567668]Well I think his accuracy rating is inflated because of all the many times he threw a 5 yard completion on 3rd and 12.[/quote]

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

Tarvaris Jackson | Vikings | Interested: Redskins? Rams? Seahawks?
During an appearance on the NFL Network, Michael Lombardi indicated that he's "been hearing talk" that Tarvaris Jackson may demand a trade if and when Brett Favre officially becomes a member of the Minnesota Vikings.
Jackson, just 26, is believed by some to possess the tools necessary to become a successful NFL signal-caller, but has yet to develop those tools into skills. If he does demand a trade, a team that runs the West Coast offense would be the best fit for his continued progression.

Latest on ESPN, apparently we are not too confident in our QB IF we are lookin at T-Jack.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

Am I the only one who thinks its weird that the HC and the AC's go on tv and say how good the QB looks in practice yet we seem to go after just about every QB that hits the market?

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567773]Tarvaris Jackson | Vikings | Interested: Redskins? Rams? Seahawks?
During an appearance on the NFL Network, Michael Lombardi indicated that he's "been hearing talk" that Tarvaris Jackson may demand a trade if and when Brett Favre officially becomes a member of the Minnesota Vikings.
Jackson, just 26, is believed by some to possess the tools necessary to become a successful NFL signal-caller, but has yet to develop those tools into skills. If he does demand a trade, a team that runs the West Coast offense would be the best fit for his continued progression.
[B]
Latest on ESPN, apparently we are not too confident in our QB IF we are lookin at T-Jack.[/B][/quote]

Tavaris would be at best a back up here in Washington. Besides, if there were any shred of truth, Mike Florio would be all over this.

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567774]Am I the only one who thinks its weird that the HC and the AC's go on tv and say how good the QB looks in practice yet we seem to go after just about every QB that hits the market?[/quote]

Unless someone tells me/shows me concrete evidence that was going to get Sanchez, we've really gone after Cutler (as a true straight up replacement for Campbell).

The whole Tavaris Jackson is a pipe dream (I hope it is not a Danny pipe dream), and let's say theoretically they were to do this, I would hope and pray that this would be just as a back up. Besides, Jackson doesn't fit the gun slinger type that Danny goes gaga for. Otherwise, I think I would be just following college basketball from now on.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

Sounds like Florio floating more of his turdy rumors

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567773]Tarvaris Jackson | Vikings | Interested: Redskins? Rams? Seahawks?
During an appearance on the NFL Network, Michael Lombardi indicated that he's "been hearing talk" that Tarvaris Jackson may demand a trade if and when Brett Favre officially becomes a member of the Minnesota Vikings.
Jackson, just 26, is believed by some to possess the tools necessary to become a successful NFL signal-caller, but has yet to develop those tools into skills. If he does demand a trade, a team that runs the West Coast offense would be the best fit for his continued progression.

Latest on ESPN, apparently we are not too confident in our QB IF we are lookin at T-Jack.[/quote]

I don't think you read the article right

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567774]Am I the only one who thinks its weird that the HC and the AC's go on tv and say how good the QB looks in practice [B]yet we seem to go after just about every QB that hits the market?[/B][/quote]

[B]We have not gone after Jackson.[/B] The media just barfed some names in mindless speculation.

1) I don't see the Vikes trading Jackson, even if he demands such (which actually has not happened).

2) If Jackson were on the trading block, he is too erratic for Zorn to ever give him a thumbs-up.

3) Even if I were wrong about the above two points, Jackson would come as a backup, not a starter.

No offense but you are getting your feathers ruffled over nothing.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

If the Vikings end up releasing him upon signing Favre, I actually would potentially make a play to sign him to a two year or three year deal.

I'm not sure he (Jackson) has a future in this league as a starter, but I do think with a new start, he can be a productive player in his prime years. Plus he's probably not anything more than a backup here anyway, but has some career starts under his belt and provides more for us than Colt Brennan does.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

DBUCHANON101, I thought you posted your anti-JC rants here to piss off some of the homers (like me) here, but I see you carry the same philosophy on your ESPN comments:

[quote]
dbuchanon101 (7/13/2009 at 10:52 PM)
Report Violation

One can easily pin our poor play in the 2nd half of the season to the teams we played but our numbers dramatically changed...hmmmm Portis couldn't run anymore and sacks rose...which was not the case in the first half of the season...

Skins allowed an ave of 2 sacks a game the first eight. allowed 7 vs the steelers and allowed and avg of 2 sacks the last 7. One game kindof skews the stats but its not like JC was running for his life in the 2nd half not counting 1 game.
[/quote]

Although I didn't quite understand this post, for a moment I thought you were giving Campbell a compliment, although you are using the infamous "Video"

[quote]
dbuchanon101 (7/14/2009 at 4:05 AM)
Report Violation

[url=http://www.nfl.com/]NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League[/url] videos/nfl-network-t otal-access/09000d5d 81069cc4/Can-Campbel l-get-it-done

[B]Campbell has the talent. He is not the problem[/B]

Not ALL the blame goes on the Oline or Wrs. [B]JC has his share of the blame[/B] also
[/quote]

If I understood this correctly though, I do agree with you that o-lines, WRs, and JC should share the blame of the offense's woes in the 2nd half of the season.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

I think what was missed in the 2-6 collapse is that Zorn in his first year as a HC with a first year offensive co-ordinator took a Gibbs team, remolded it in a WCO mold and finished 8-8 even ravaged by injury.

This is essentially the same group of players that the combined efforts of a HoF coach in Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams and Al Saunders took to 5-11 in 06 and the same mix minus Saunders 6-10 in 04 ...

I feel real good about the Skins going forwards . I think the O line is still a ??? but time will tell . Thank god football is just around the corner

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=bedlamVR;567801]I think what was missed in the 2-6 collapse is that Zorn in his first year as a HC with a first year offensive co-ordinator took a Gibbs team, remolded it in a WCO mold and finished 8-8 even ravaged by injury.

This is essentially the same group of players that the combined efforts of a HoF coach in Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams and Al Saunders took to 5-11 in 06 and the same mix minus Saunders 6-10 in 04 ...

I feel real good about the Skins going forwards . I think the O line is still a ??? but time will tell . [B]Thank god football is just around the corner[/B][/quote]

Players report for camp two weeks from today!

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=Schneed10;567750]But it's not his fault he doesn't throw down the field. He can't throw down the field without protection.[/quote]

Or go outisde the scheme. The WC isn't a down the field proposition. In a perfect vacuum a WC QB will have lower yardage averages simply based on scheme.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=FRPLG;567861]Or go outisde the scheme. The WC isn't a down the field proposition. In a perfect vacuum a WC QB will have lower yardage averages simply based on scheme.[/quote]

The 'scheme' was created for teams with less than steller O-lines. Short to intermediate passes took the place of the running game because the Oline couldnt open up holes.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567862]The 'scheme' was created for teams with less than steller O-lines. Short to intermediate passes took the place of the running game because the Oline couldnt open up holes.[/quote]
Not really. It was designed to replace part of the running game but not because teams couldn't run. Just because Bill Walsh thought it was a more dynamic way to operate. Yes it does help run deficient teams but teams that CAN'T run are in trouble no matter what scheme they run

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

Walsh started it in Cincy who at the time was an expansion team with a bad o-line and didnt have much talent at the RB position. It a situation like that you have to spread the defense out and keep them honest which by design helps open up running lanes.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

oops.. IN not it

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567867]Walsh started it in Cincy who at the time was an expansion team with a bad o-line and didnt have much talent at the RB position. It a situation like that you have to spread the defense out and keep them honest which by design helps open up running lanes.[/quote]

Yes, that is true. Walsh himself said so. Cincy's OL was terrible so they couldn't run, but Walsh the OC had to find some way to move the ball. So Walsh tried to devise a way to realize the same results as a running game.

That having been said, the WCO has morphed over the years since its birth. Rather than being a crutch for teams with no OL, it has developed into a philosophy to help teams with good OL's to dominate the game offensively.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;567867]Walsh started it in Cincy who at the time was an expansion team with a bad o-line and didnt have much talent at the RB position. It a situation like that you have to spread the defense out and keep them honest which by design helps open up running lanes.[/quote]

Sort of. Walsh started what we commonly call the West Coast Offense mainly because he had to due to a QB change on the Bengals. Walsh originally came to the Bengals to instill a vertical passing game which he learned while with the Raiders and the Bengals had a huge year with QB Greg Cook (I think he was like 6'6" or something like that) but then Cook got hurt and his career was never the same. So Walsh had to make the switch to the 6 foot Virgil Carter who was more suited for running around and short passes, so Walsh adjusted the offense accordingly.

But yeah, they probably had a bad offensive line there as well

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

I don't recall so many passes being in front of or behind the receiver but rather too high, since he still wasn't able to throw a "touch" pass with consistency. I remember the announcers in the Brunell-Moss Dallas game saying that Moss was one of the best in the league adjusting to the ball, but he can't do it if the ball isn't in the air enough time to adjust to it.

Do the statistics which have been referred to so frequently in this thread include balls that are too high/low?

Thanks for the info.

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

i got a gut feeling campbell will shine this yrrrrrr

Re: Some Zorn Story...But It Hints at Campbell Getting Paid
 

[quote=freddavisbro86;568104]i got a gut feeling campbell will shine this yrrrrrr[/quote]

Me too, bro.