Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

I think Latino NFL players make the best kickers. Zendejas!

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;565097]Is this serious? I don't remember the Seahawks trying to boot Hasselbeck after the 2003 playoff loss. He went to the pro bowl and super bowl two years later. Jake Delhomme has yet to win a playoff game since 2005 and he just got a 5 year extension. Alex Smith, whose career highlights include winning 7 games with the Niners three years ago, is still competiting for his teams starting position in 2009. Eli Manning, for all of his struggles in his development, won a ring in his fourth year as a starter, and might get the biggest deal in league history. Kyle Orton has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL over the last four years, and he's still a team's QB of the future. Hell, Drew Bledsoe's career lasted another 8 years after he stopped playing well.

You see, that's the big picture. [B] The race card got played in the abscence of an actual logical reason for the team's actions[/B]. You look at all the names above, and you do have to wonder that if Campbell's plight is just the status quo for an NFL quarterback, what's different about the guy's listed above.

The team can be not sold on anybody they want to. There's nothing wrong with making a change to improve at a position in March. The problem, of course, with telling your guy tht you're not sold on him...and then not really having a solid foundation for the belief is that you come off like someone with preconceived biases.

Now, I'm not saying Campbell should have gone there, or that going there makes anything different, or that life is fair, or that he's even entitled to a fair shake at his profession. I am saying that the evidence seems to strengthen his assessment, though it's still a case of correllation not equalling causation.[/quote]

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head GTripp.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=mlmpetert;565084][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
McNabb played his first complete season last year since 2003. That's why he sometimes gets blown off as not a top tier QB. It’s not because he's African American. Another comparison I think of is pitchers in baseball. There are a much higher percentage of white pitchers then comparable to the makeup of the other positions in baseball. How many white running backs are there? Just seems like certain skill sets suite certain races differently. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Baseball though might have more of an excuse because right now it mostly consist of white and latino players. I had a teammate back in high school that played baseball during the spring and he used to joke about how he was "the only brother out there." Anyway I think Joe Morgan was right when he said that most black kids are choosing to play football and basketball instead of baseball.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=mlmpetert;565132][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I agree that there is that stigma left over from the old days, but I think it’s quickly put to rest when a qb whatever color makes the correct read, or obviously knows his play book. And look at college. There are just flat out less black qb's in D1 college, so of course there will be less in the NFL. Maybe it stems from college, I dont know. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And think about baseball why are there more white pitchers percentage wise to the makeup of the rest of the league. [B]Maybe white people just have better arm strength, accuracy, or touch for some reason. [/B] It’s a touchy subject so probably isn’t that well studied. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Maybe Jason Campbell just isn't that good of a quarterback?

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565062]I have always felt that JC look at himself as the leader of the O and I'm not sure why you think CP was the leader. As far as I know JC makes the calles in the huddle and directs the players and not CP. I think your confusing Portis off the field and the Portis on the field which are two different things.[/quote]

No, they really aren't. Everyone knows the QB directs the offense, but that's not the same thing as being the leader of a group of men. I certainly can understand WHY he wasn't so vocal and authoritative last year, but it's just good that he now feels ready to take that command.

Jason probably felt that it wasn't "his team" yet before now, and I think now that he's been somewhat put on notice by Snyder and had his abilities questioned, he's fired up and isn't going to be taking any sh*t from anyone.

This, in a nutshell is why Gilbert Arenas is still (sadly, in my opinion as I'm a big Agent Zero fan) a 2nd tier player. He's the first one to defer to Jamison and claim he's not the leader of the team. Say what you want about LeWhine, Kobe, or even D-Wade, but all of those guys believe the team is theirs and they are the guys calling the shots.

I think on a professional football team you want that guy to be your QB, and I think for the first time Jason is projecting that kind of attitude.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

Someone please expain why the race card is being used on/for JC?:doh: JC is a QB trying to lead our team to Miami. All of the race crap is pointless, If he was a white QB we'd still be having the same discussion. He just needs to not force throws, gain some accuracy, and take shots downfield (although part of that is Zorn). If he does that I see us winning no less than 10 games.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=vallin21;565168]Someone please expain why the race card is being used on/for JC?:doh:[/quote]

Because he's black and some journalist knew it would stir controversy to ask a black QB whose owner has treated him pretty poorly in the offseason how he's feeling about it.

I think it's hilarious that Jason gave the most politically correct, middle-of-the-road answer a guy could give and people are still flipping out about what is a total red herring, though.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=dgack;565169]Because he's black and some journalist knew it would stir controversy to ask a black QB whose owner has treated him pretty poorly in the offseason how he's feeling about it.

I think it's hilarious that Jason gave the most politically correct, middle-of-the-road answer a guy could give and people are still flipping out about what is a total red herring, though.[/quote]

Exactly we have people flipping out about his race and crap. Granted back in the day blacks QB's didn't have the same opportunities as us, but it's a new day and this is JC's last year if he doesn't improve, (the FO made that clear) he's out the door.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Lotus;565024]Thanks for the fine article on JC, Paintrain.

Every time I hear from JC I become more and more impressed by his classiness and attitude. I am looking forward to a big year from him, although certainly I am fueled by homer optimism.

As for the part about African-American quarterbacks, I think JC is right on. Sad to say, it seems that there is still a double-standard regarding qb's and race. McNabb seems like the poster child for this reality. Notice that historically there are relatively few African-American starters at qb compared to other positions and, when an African-American does start, he is usually a magnet for criticism. The qb position is one of many examples that we still have not realized racial equality in this country, although we do seem to be moving in that direction.[/quote]


Oh give me a break dude. Racial equality? Blacks make up over 80% of the NFL while only 14% of the total US population. Once an athlete leaves the PC confines of the pathetic American university system it is all about getting the job done in the private sector(NFL). Your whole equality thing is basically saying you want more black qbs just for the sake of having black qbs. That isn't going to happen in the private sector where the bottom line is money and winning and the PC racial quota is already heavily askewed towards minorities. I mean what, you aren't going to be happy til 80% of NFL qbs are black? I mean come on. Do you know how many white kids that make all state in HS football at the skilled positions get stuck playing for Div II schools just for the fact they are white and hearing lame ass excuses like "they don't have loose hips", etc. Enough already!!!!

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

I hope he succeeds he deserves damm the skins deserve it he's a class guy and by his actions deserves to be the face of this franchise, if the supporting cast step up and stay healthy for the season mainly OL and young WR JC should be good.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;565178]Oh give me a break dude. Racial equality? Blacks make up over 80% of the NFL while only 14% of the total US population. Once an athlete leaves the PC confines of the pathetic American university system it is all about getting the job done in the private sector(NFL). Your whole equality thing is basically saying [B]you want more black qbs just for the sake of having black qbs.[/B] That isn't going to happen in the private sector where the bottom line is money and winning and the PC racial quota is already heavily askewed towards minorities. I mean what, you aren't going to be happy til 80% of NFL qbs are black? I mean come on. [B]Do you know how many white kids that make all state in HS football at the skilled positions get stuck playing for Div II schools just for the fact they are white[/B] and hearing lame ass excuses like "they don't have loose hips", etc. Enough already!!!![/quote]

No, I don't want more African-American qb's just to have them there. I was simply pointing out the racial disparities at the qb position in the NFL. You said nothing to dispel my point.

As for your second point, please present evidence that even one white kid had to play Div II simply because he was white.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

Look at Favre he's won one SB, been to two, thrown a thousand INT but everyone loves him oh! he's a gunslinger he can do that. He's always givin a pass.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;565182]Look at Favre he's won one SB, been to two, thrown a thousand INT [B]but everyone loves him oh![/B] he's a gunslinger he can do that.[B] He's always givin a pass.[/B][/quote]

Really? Favre has totally crapped all over his reputation the past few offseasons with his shenanigans. To say that everyone loves him and he's always given a pass is so 2006.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

I agree with 53fan, GTripp's take is pretty accurate about JC's statement about race and the QB position. I think his frustration with the Skins QB drama this off-season is manifesting itself. I don't agree with him, but I'm certainly not going to fault him for it.

Bottom line is he knows he's at a crossroads. His play this year will determine if he's a top half starting QB for the next 5-7 years and signs a contract with a $ 20+ million bonus or if he's going to be a career back-up competing for a job year-in, year-out. Unfortunately for him, football is the ultimate team sport and he can only control so much.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;565182]Look at Favre he's won one SB, been to two, thrown a thousand INT but everyone loves him oh! he's a gunslinger he can do that. [B]He's always givin a pass[/B].[/quote]He didn't get one from me. He's tarnished his legacy with his poor performances and crapped on GB & NY. I wouldn't want him now at vet minimum.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Lotus;565148]You do realize that your statement is inherently racist, right? So was your prior statement about different positions suiting different races. Some years ago Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a very similar statement on air.

Look, I'm as white as white gets, so I have no axe of my own to grind here. But judging the ability of a person to play a certain position because of the color of their skin is racism.

With your statements you have proven JC to be correct: in the eyes of some people there is a racial double standard regarding the quarterback position.[/quote]

You are right what i said iswrong. But I never said anything about [I]judging [/I]the ability of a person to play a certain position by there race, but rather that there are physical difference between races that complement races in different ways.

I would expect the individuals talent would always speak for itself regardless of race. Maybe still a little naive to take for granted that the NFL or other professionals also think that way. Either way wrong and incorrect. My apologizes to everyone, especially those offended.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=mlmpetert;565199]You are right what i said iswrong. But I never said anything about [I]judging [/I]the ability of a person to play a certain position by there race, but rather that there are physical difference between races that complement races in different ways.

I would expect the individuals talent would always speak for itself regardless of race. Maybe still a little naive to take for granted that the NFL or other professionals also think that way. Either way wrong and incorrect. My apologizes to everyone, especially those offended.[/quote]

I don't think your [B]intentions[/B] were wrong, it's just the idea that different races are better suited for different positions based[B] solely[/B] on the color of their skin. That's why so many Afro-American QB's became DB's in the NFL not so long ago. It's based on ignorance. As a Redskin fan, all I can say is, thank God for Doug Williams!

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=mlmpetert;565199]You are right what i said iswrong. But I never said anything about [I]judging [/I]the ability of a person to play a certain position by there race, but rather that there are physical difference between races that complement races in different ways.

I would expect the individuals talent would always speak for itself regardless of race. Maybe still a little naive to take for granted that the NFL or other professionals also think that way. Either way wrong and incorrect. My apologizes to everyone, especially those offended.[/quote]

Hey no problem. HTTR.

53Fan and GTripp are right, it was a bit odd that JC would play race the way that he did. Maybe that is just poor editing and JC's original remarks had more flow to them. Or maybe JC is just frustrated. If it is the latter, and JC was just expressing frustration, it may have been intended more for the media and fans, not the members of the FO, thus taking the football "professionals" which you mention out of the equation.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=53Fan;565201]I don't think your [B]intentions[/B] were wrong, it's just the idea that different races are better suited for different positions based[B] solely[/B] on the color of their skin. That's why so many Afro-American QB's became DB's in the NFL not so long ago. It's based on ignorance. [B]As a Redskin fan, all I can say is, thank God for Doug Williams![/B][/quote]

:food-smil

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Lotus;565148]You do realize that your statement is inherently racist, right? So was your prior statement about different positions suiting different races. Some years ago Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a very similar statement on air.

Look, I'm as white as white gets, so I have no axe of my own to grind here. But judging the ability of a person to play a certain position because of the color of their skin is racism.

With your statements you have proven JC to be correct: in the eyes of some people there is a racial double standard regarding the quarterback position.[/quote]


What he said isn't racist in the least, merely something that might be the cause of a dynamic from our makeup. No more racist than the studies that have shown that blacks typically have narrower hips, longer legs, wider shoulders, and more fast twitch muscles for the most part. This allows them to typically jump higher, have a more efficient running stride, etc. It's not racist, it's science. There are a ton of societal reasons for some of these things as well.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;565182]Look at Favre he's won one SB, been to two, thrown a thousand INT but everyone loves him oh! he's a gunslinger he can do that. He's always givin a pass.[/quote]
He holds how many NFL records?

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

By JC playing the race card is he not saying that his boss and coaches are racist?

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565228]By JC playing the race card is he not saying that his boss and coaches are racist?[/quote]Can we not ask pointless, leading questions? Either you're trying to incite, or you've missed the point.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

We need a legit number two threat wide receiver to step up this year and announce to the league that he requires a double team in certain packages. Period!

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565227]He holds how many NFL records?[/quote]

Well theres the INT record :D Lol, but in all seriousness lets look at the Farve vs McNabb comparison. For starters Farve has a Super Bowl win and two NFC Championship wins. McNabb has One Conference Championship win. Not saying that McNabb is bad but that Super Bowl win goes a long way towards getting people to put up with you when you struggle.

Also as I mentioned before McNabb plays for a fan base that is down right critical. Farve on the other hand spent most of his time in Green Bay where the fans are much more level headed and practical. I also think it's worth mentioning that ever since his second half collapse he's gotten nothing but critiscm in part because he was playing for a fan base that hadn't stocked up on Farve good will. Hell I'm tired of hearing about Farve but my point is Farve has beared McNabb like critism since the second half of last year mainly because he's left the friendlier confines of Green Bay.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;565047]Could it be that he wasn't so much playing the race card but maybe, possibly answering a question ?[/quote]

I believe he was answering a question as well

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;565319]Well theres the INT record :D Lol, but in all seriousness lets look at the Farve vs McNabb comparison. For starters Farve has a Super Bowl win and two NFC Championship wins. McNabb has One Conference Championship win. Not saying that McNabb is bad but that Super Bowl win goes a long way towards getting people to put up with you when you struggle.

Also as I mentioned before McNabb plays for a fan base that is down right critical. Farve on the other hand spent most of his time in Green Bay where the fans are much more level headed and practical. I also think it's worth mentioning that ever since his second half collapse he's gotten nothing but critiscm in part because he was playing for a fan base that hadn't stocked up on Farve good will. Hell I'm tired of hearing about Farve but my point is Farve has beared McNabb like critism since the second half of last year mainly because he's left the friendlier confines of Green Bay.[/quote]

I agree that McNabb plays for the critical Philly fan base. But there is more to it than that. National media and national fans must be considered, and in general these folks have not been as kind to McNabb as they could be. One must ask why. One also must ask exactly why the Philly folks have been so critical specifically of McNabb.

Some (certainly not all) fans and media members, both nationally and in Philly, bring racist attitudes towards the quarterback position. As we've seen in these pages, some of those racists lurk right here at the Warpath. Apparently, to some people, it is ok to have blacks do the grunt work but not ok to have them in positions of leadership.

The famous civil rights problems in Mississippi in the 1960's were not simply a result of the fact that Mississippi whites were grumpy. Similarly, criticism of McNabb does not arise simply because Philly folks are prone to boo Santa Claus. In both cases there is more to the story.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

Even with the constant changes in the offensive system, and an aging o-line, and inconsistent play from the receiving corp, JC is doing exactly what he did in college and that is improve every year. Look at his completion percentage, touchdown to interception ratio, and the streak of passes without an interception. Sure he has more work to do, in particular, with that intangible where you have the confidence to effect the game when it matters most, but like anything else in life it has to be one step at a time. Tom Brady's career is exceptional. I remember some very tough years for a young Brett Favre and for both Mannings, and none of them had the adversities that JC has had. This guy has conducted himself on and off the field in a way that demands the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait to see if he can find "it".

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=RedBar;565354]Even with the constant changes in the offensive system, and an aging o-line, and inconsistent play from the receiving corp, [B]JC is doing exactly what he did in college[/B] and that is improve every year. Look at his completion percentage, touchdown to interception ratio, and the streak of passes without an interception. Sure he has more work to do, in particular, with that intangible where you have the confidence to effect the game when it matters most, but like anything else in life it has to be one step at a time. Tom Brady's career is exceptional. I remember some very tough years for a young Brett Favre and for both Mannings, and none of them had the adversities that JC has had. This guy has conducted himself on and off the field in a way that demands the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait to see if he can find "it".[/quote]

If that is true, then this is the year that JC wins a national championship, i.e., Super Bowl!

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Paintrain;565020]This one won't be popular but I love his honesty-
There are still double-standards in this league for African-American quarterbacks. You have to be great to be good. And others who are half as good are considered great. That is not an excuse, that is a fact. I don't make excuses. I was raised to understand it is not always about you. You have to give respect to get respect..[/quote]


here we go with this race crap. lets just make it a rooney rule that every team needs to have at least one black qb and he be given every opportunity to become the starter.

there is no double standard either your good at the position (or get put in a great situation) or your not good enough (or get put in a bad situation)

example 1. ben rothlisburger (not that good) but got put in a great situation which makes him look better than he really is.

example 2. jason campbell (pretty good) got put in an awfull situation which makes him look worse than what he is.

all in all these situations and others like them just are what they are, thats not a double standard, it has nothing to do with race.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Lotus;565329]I agree that McNabb plays for the critical Philly fan base. But there is more to it than that. National media and national fans must be considered, and in general these folks have not been as kind to McNabb as they could be. One must ask why. One also must ask exactly why the Philly folks have been so critical specifically of McNabb.

[SIZE=3]Some (certainly not all) fans and media members,[/SIZE] both nationally and in Philly, bring racist attitudes towards the quarterback position. As we've seen in these pages, some of those racists lurk right here at the Warpath. Apparently, to some people, it is ok to have blacks do the grunt work but not ok to have them in positions of leadership.

The famous civil rights problems in Mississippi in the 1960's were not simply a result of the fact that Mississippi whites were grumpy. Similarly, criticism of McNabb does not arise simply because Philly folks are prone to boo Santa Claus. In both cases there is more to the story.[/quote]

Well if its not because he is in Philly (they did not just boo santa they threw stuff at him) then please explain why the media was in such love with MV. As far as QB talent you cannot even compare the two. I would also like to see some national coverage out side of Philly unfairly critical of McNabb.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=RedBar;565354]Even with the constant changes in the offensive system, and an aging o-line, and inconsistent play from the receiving corp, JC is doing exactly what he did in college and that is improve every year. [SIZE=3]Look at his completion percentage, touchdown to interception ratio, and the streak of passes without an interception. [/SIZE]Sure he has more work to do, in particular, with that intangible where you have the confidence to effect the game when it matters most, but like anything else in life it has to be one step at a time. Tom Brady's career is exceptional. I remember some very tough years for a young Brett Favre and for both Mannings, and none of them had the adversities that JC has had. This guy has conducted himself on and off the field in a way that demands the benefit of the doubt. I can't wait to see if he can find "it".[/quote]

All those stats are worthless if you not scoring. I would rather him miss a few pass, throw a few ints. if that would mean he starts throwing more TDs.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565486]Well if its not because he is in Philly (they did not just boo santa they threw stuff at him) then please explain why the media was in such love with MV. As far as QB talent you cannot even compare the two. I would also like to see some national coverage out side of Philly unfairly critical of McNabb.[/quote]

[B]Well if its not because he is in Philly[/B]
It is not an either/or. I agreed with the idea of a hostile Philly atmosphere. But I also said that there was MORE to it than just that.

[B]please explain why the media was in such love with MV.[/B]
I don't know about this "love." I saw the media dog Vick in his heyday many times (pun intended).

[B]I would also like to see some national coverage out side of Philly unfairly critical of McNabb.[/B]
Pay more attention. There's plenty of it out there.

Many black quarterbacks, not just JC and McNabb, have complained of racial double standards towards qb's. Either:
a) they're lying, or
b) they're whining about nothing, or
c) there is something to be learned from their critiques because they are there, on the point, and we are not

Given the racism which lives on in our culture, choice C seems to me to be the most intelligent perspective, especially since JC publicly has never been given much to either lying or whining.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

I don't recall McNabb playing the race card.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565516]I don't recall McNabb playing the race card.[/quote]

[quote=Donovan McNabb]"Black on black crime."[/quote] -- regarding the actions of WR Terrell Owens

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565490]All those stats are worthless if you not scoring. I would rather him miss a few pass, throw a few ints. if that would mean he starts throwing more TDs.[/quote]You're right. If he threw three more touchdowns last year, despite doubling his INT total to get there, we would have been a much better team.

/sarcasm.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=GTripp0012;565519]-- regarding the actions of WR Terrell Owens[/quote]

Wouldn't have been the first time McNabb was a victim of black on black crime. I remember when that idiot from the NAACP criticized McNabb for not "playing like a black QB."

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;565523]Wouldn't have been the first time McNabb was a victim of black on black crime. I remember when that idiot from the NAACP criticized McNabb for not "playing like a black QB."[/quote]Yeah, McNabb more than any other player, probably avoids criticism for the things he's actually not good at (health, passing accuracy), while taking incredibly amounts of public criticism for downright stupid arguments (i.e. tie game rulings, playing style, choking after directing a team deep into the playoffs). I would actually hate to be in Donovan's shoes, despite my in general desire to trade places with an NFL quarterback.

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=firstdown;565516]I don't recall McNabb playing the race card.[/quote]

[url=http://www.abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=3624165&page=1]McNabb Says Black QBs Under More Pressure - ABC News[/url]

Re: Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..
 

[quote=53Fan;565527][url=http://www.abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=3624165&page=1]McNabb Says Black QBs Under More Pressure - ABC News[/url][/quote]

Thank you 53Fan. Beat me to it. Also see the McNabb-Limbaugh controversy from 2003.