Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564137]It does seem to be a little ridiculous that premium spots are taken up like this. Makes sense to have a designated area for tailgating.

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.redskins.com/media/2009/06/parkinglot.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Makes perfect sense. I think it's a good move by the organization. Plus somehow, they're suppose to improve the flow of traffic after the games which I'm all for. And if you want to party before the game, you know exactly where to go.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=roth74va;564129]
AND.............what stadium are you going to? Ive never seen the escalators broken, and the searches are for guns.....not peanuts. Wake up![/quote]

Really?

Look at the previous poster about the Mom who had her chips confiscated but not the knife.

I Have seats in Section 401. Top level, 50 yard line.

You have to take the large escalator up or risk a hip replacement 1/2 way up (I think they have a surgical unit there doing them as you go).

REGULARLY, sections of this three stage escalator are turned off and/or broken (it doesn't matter which one it is, it isn't working).

Last year while going up, the center stage of the escalator stopped abruptly while fully loaded. The lower stage kept going though, poring people into the stopped throng at the top. The 'security' people did nothing even though it was a significant crush hazard.

As I stated, this tailgating issue had no influence whatsoever on my decision to not renew, it was emblematic of the Daniels doing what he can to squeeze out a few more bucks, though.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

This is a good move. All people want is to be able to park in a space they paid for without getting spit on or harassed. Tailgating isnt going anywhere (thats good too) they just need to stay in the space they paid for.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564141]This is a good move. All people want is to be able to park in a space they paid for without getting spit on or harassed. Tailgating isnt going anywhere (thats good too) they just need to stay in the space they paid for.[/quote]

That's fair.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=roth74va;564129]I cant believe people are so upset about this news. They arent doing away with tailgating, they are just moving it to the back of the lots to minimize the congestion. Its pretty annoying to get into the lots to see every-other-spot taken up by a group of drunks. Just move to the back, do your thing and have a good time. Most of you guys could use the extra 50 yard walk anyway.

AND.............what stadium are you going to? Ive never seen the escalators broken, and the searches are for guns.....not peanuts. Wake up![/quote]

Dude, I had a friend forget to leave her pepper spray in the car. She was all worried that she might get arrested. She almost walked the 15 minutes back to the car too drop it off. I talked her out of it. I told her, "Don't worry, they only care if you're sneaking in bottles of liquor or food and stuff like that". I was right.

And the big deal is why make it a big deal. Why not let people park where they want to. Why not let the die hard tailgaters, who get there at the crack of dawn, get the spot that they want? Why does there have to be a rule for every gosh dang thing that there is in this world? Let people have fun for once and chill out. Parking has always been first come/ first serve. Why change it now? Its bullshit! If anything Danny should shrink is high priced purple lots so more people could fit into the cheaper green and orange lots. Not rearrange parking for all of the die hard tailgaters! That is what is wrong with this! That is why people are so upset.

And trying to say that you're going to reduce the congestion by doing this is a form of horseshit to the finest degree! [SIZE="3"]Newsflash! 50,000 cars, 500 buses, and 50 limos produce congestion. Most people know that! ITS CALLED DUH![/SIZE]

Ohhhh and the escalators were broken for just about every game I went to last year. Either that or just turned off.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Miller101;564146]Dude, I had a friend forget to leave her pepper spray in the car. She was all worried that she might get arrested. She almost walked the 15 minutes back to the car too drop it off. I talked her out of it. I told her, "Don't worry, they only care if you're sneaking in bottles of liquor or food and stuff like that". I was right.

And the big deal is why make it a big deal. Why not let people park where they want to. Why not let the die hard tailgaters, who get there at the crack of dawn, get the spot that they want? Why does there have to be a rule for every gosh dang thing that there is in this world? Let people have fun for once and chill out. Parking has always been first come/ first serve. Why change it now? Its bullshit! If anything Danny should shrink is high priced purple lots so more people could fit into the cheaper green and orange lots. Not rearrange parking for all of the die hard tailgaters! That is what is wrong with this! That is why people are so upset.

And trying to say that you're going to reduce the congestion by doing this is a form of horseshit to the finest degree! [SIZE="3"]Newsflash! 50,000 cars, 500 buses, and 50 limos produce congestion. Most people know that! ITS CALLED DUH![/SIZE]

Ohhhh and the escalators were broken for just about every game I went to last year. Either that or just turned off.[/quote]

The hard core tailgaters only have themselves to blame. If they had stayed in the space they paid for or didnt harass & spit on the cars of people wanting to park in the spot they have a right to use this wouldnt have been and issue. Their hooray for me to hell with you attitude turned around and bit them in the a$$. To that I say you got what you deserved.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

God you guys read stuff and bitch like a bunch of girls about stuff that's not even what was said in the article. It did not say you could not tailgate. It said if you want to have a big tailgate party you have to go to the back of the parking lot if you wil be TAKING UP MORE THAN ONE PARKING SPOT. So if you need one parking spot and can tailgait behind your car then your good to go. What gives people the right to block others with a pass from parking in a spot when someone feels the need to take up 2 to 3 spots. Its no big deal.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote]The hard core tailgaters only have themselves to blame. If they had stayed in the space they paid for or didnt harass & spit on the cars of people wanting to park in the spot they have a right to use this wouldnt have been and issue. Their hooray for me to hell with you attitude turned around and bit them in the a$$. To that I say you got what you deserved. [/quote]

Irish - I actually remember one time a guy who tried to park finally got some hardcore tailgaters to move their stuff - once the guy left his car and walked to the game his car got scratched pretty badly and fans started hitting his car with all sorts of stuff - it only reinforced my belief that one should not drive a car they care about to the games as it is open season. I don't know how many of you see this, but often in the lots people start heaving footballs all over the place and as they bomb away many cars get dinged -if you care about you car finding alternative transportation is the best option.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Bill B;564158]Irish - I actually remember one time a guy who tried to park finally got some hardcore tailgaters to move their stuff - once the guy left his car and walked to the game his car got scratched pretty badly and fans started hitting his car with all sorts of stuff - it only reinforced my belief that one should not drive a car they care about to the games as it is open season. I don't know how many of you see this, but often in the lots people start heaving footballs all over the place and as they bomb away many cars get dinged -if you care about you car finding alternative transportation is the best option.[/quote]

I have seen similar behavior too. I guess thats what happens when jerks fueled by beer turn into a-holes.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

It seems our organization cant make a single move without everyone crying about The Daniel taking everyones money.....


Good move IMO especially after reading this:

[URL="http://blog.redskins.com/2009/06/22/details-on-the-new-parking-policies/#continued"]Details On The New Parking Policies[/URL]

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Bill B;564158]Irish - I actually remember one time a guy who tried to park finally got some hardcore tailgaters to move their stuff - once the guy left his car and walked to the game his car got scratched pretty badly and fans started hitting his car with all sorts of stuff - it only reinforced my belief that one should not drive a car they care about to the games as it is open season. I don't know how many of you see this, but often in the lots people start heaving footballs all over the place and as they bomb away many cars get dinged -if you care about you car finding alternative transportation is the best option.[/quote]

Dang..........................I can see it now! A new rule will emerge soon saying you can't throw a football at a barbeque!!! People just need to get a life!

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

Just another case of the wolves telling the sheep how to behave. No biggie.

Imagine if we made one designated area for drinking, one for bbq-ing, one for football tossing, and one for smoking, and put them on opposite ends of the lots. Wouldn't it be great to watch droves of twitchy tailgaters running around like chickens with their heads cut off on Sundays?

I say, if you're rich, the more you can get people to behave like cattle, the better. It makes great fodder for really interesting science fiction writers and the people don't seem to mind.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564137]It does seem to be a little ridiculous that premium spots are taken up like this. Makes sense to have a designated area for tailgating.[/quote]

Exactly. If people still want to take several spots near the stadium, you have to purchase a parking pass for every spot you take. Seems reasonable to me. I also consider it a nice gesture for the Redskins to continue to allow people to take more spots than they paid for -- only at the back of the lot.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Miller101;564188]Dang..........................I can see it now! A new rule will emerge soon saying you can't throw a football at a barbeque!!! People just need to get a life![/quote]

I have no problem with people tossing a football but when it hits & dents my car there's a problem. People dont need to get a life, they need to get a little common sense & courtesy.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564221]I have no problem with people tossing a football but when it hits & dents my car there's a problem. People dont need to get a life, they need to get a little [B]common sense & courtesy[/B].[/quote]

2 things that are lacking in society in general these days.

Adding alcohol to the mix only makes matters worse.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564227]2 things that are lacking in society in general these days.

Adding alcohol to the mix only makes matters worse.[/quote]


No Kidding.

I saw one Redskins fan try to fight a (much larger) Redskins fan in the stands last year because the other guy was wearing a Chicago Cubs hat.

Alcohol was involved.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564221]I have no problem with people tossing a football but when it hits & dents my car there's a problem. People dont need to get a life, they need to get a little common sense & courtesy.[/quote]

Absolutely Irish. It also wouldn't hurt for Skins fans to look out for each other instead of acting like Iggle fans.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564043]I've never been a big fan of tailgating at games, concerts, whatever. If I'm going to an event it's to see the event, not to get all tanked up before hand. So even if I did go to games this wouldn't bother me.[/quote]

You know you don't have to get drunk before the game at a tailgate. I do, but you don't. ;)

Sometimes it's fun just hanging around other fans, eating, chatting it up, watching the girls shake their breastesses and stuff; alcohol or not.

Oh and this is a pretty good move in my opinion, I get there mad early but there are often people taking up a lot of up front spaces with grills and other setups. Most of the bigger ones are at the edges of the lots anyways, at least in Green.

Sounds like this will make it easier to do a tailgate crawl for the big ones that invite whoever.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564227]2 things that are lacking in society in general these days.

Adding alcohol to the mix only makes matters worse.[/quote]

I really wonder how much longer its gonna be before beer sales is completely banned at professional sports events.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=jgalecpa;564140]Really?

Look at the previous poster about the Mom who had her chips confiscated but not the knife.

I Have seats in Section 401. Top level, 50 yard line.

You have to take the large escalator up or risk a hip replacement 1/2 way up (I think they have a surgical unit there doing them as you go).

REGULARLY, sections of this three stage escalator are turned off and/or broken (it doesn't matter which one it is, it isn't working).

Last year while going up, the center stage of the escalator stopped abruptly while fully loaded. The lower stage kept going though, poring people into the stopped throng at the top. The 'security' people did nothing even though it was a significant crush hazard.

As I stated, this tailgating issue had no influence whatsoever on my decision to not renew, it was emblematic of the Daniels doing what he can to squeeze out a few more bucks, though.[/quote]

People need to get to choppin' up the stairs then, that should move faster than an escalator

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564239]I really wonder how much longer its gonna be before beer sales is completely banned at professional sports events.[/quote]
Probably the same time it's banned at other public places.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=tryfuhl;564242]Probably the same time it's banned at other public places.[/quote]

I dont think a pro stadium is a public place in the same sense a bar or grocery store is.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564239]I really wonder how much longer its gonna be before beer sales is completely banned at professional sports events.[/quote]

Doubt it would go that far, it brings in too much $$

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=tryfuhl;564242]Probably the same time it's banned at other public places.[/quote]

Which will probably happen somewhere in the timeframe of never. It's a giant revenue source for businesses, especially at sporting events. They're selling a beer that you could get at a bar for $3 for $8. Or buy at a liquor store for about $1. I understand it costs more to run a stadium, but over twice the revenue off of 1 beer, there's no way it's going away at sporting events. Not anytime soon, at least.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564250]Doubt it would go that far, it brings in too much $$[/quote]

So did tobacco ads and thats all gone now so IMO, its not out of the realm of possibility. It does bring in a lot of $ but one bad booze fueled incident where someone gets killed that hurts the team's or league's image and result in a big payout could cause the powers that be to think its not worth it anymore.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564254]So did tobacco ads and thats all gone now so IMO, its not out of the realm of possibility. It does bring in a lot of $ but one bad booze fueled incident where someone gets killed that hurts the team's or league's image and result in a big payout could cause the powers that be to think its not worth it anymore.[/quote]

But you can replace ads. Where is the lost alcohol revenue going to come from? I mean, you can replace the vendor, but I don't think $5 lemonade and $6 hot dogs sell quite as well as beer. I feel like people will put a cap on the amount they'll pay for food at an event, but probably not on alcohol.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=irish;564249]I dont think a pro stadium is a public place in the same sense a bar or grocery store is.[/quote]

No open containers in grocery stores around here. But wouldn't they have to do the same at concerts and other venues? NASCAR would go out of business, but at least they let you bring your own in.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

I wonder if we'll ever have a true backlash against alcohol in this country. Part of me thinks that it's in the works and eventually people will realize they can lead more productive lives by limiting themselves to getting tanked once a weak rather then every other day but who knows.

Anyway it amazes me how central alcohol is to peoples lives. At least in a college town like the one I'm in. I swear all some people talk about is what they did when they were drunk and how they're going to get their next stash of booze. I mean don't get me wrong some of those stories are fun but it starts to get weird when you realize all of a persons stories stem from how wasted they were and how they divulge into the same subtopics such as fighting, throwing up, or blacking out. Eventually it gets to the point where you start thinking along the lines of "this guy is a douche."

I keep on hearing that people in Europe do a better job of handling booze but part of me thinks that it's not that much better then it is here. Either way sometimes you find that life is one big hockey rink.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[B][B][/B][/B][quote=Dirtbag359;564338]I wonder if we'll ever have a true backlash against alcohol in this country. Part of me thinks that it's in the works and eventually people will realize they can lead more productive lives by limiting themselves to getting tanked once a weak rather then every other day but who knows.

Anyway it amazes me how central alcohol is to peoples lives. At least in a college town like the one I'm in. I swear all some people talk about is what they did when they were drunk and how they're going to get their next stash of booze. I mean don't get me wrong some of those stories are fun but it starts to get weird when you realize all of a persons stories stem from how wasted they were and how they divulge into the same subtopics such as fighting, throwing up, or blacking out. Eventually it gets to the point where you start thinking along the lines of "this guy is a douche."

I keep on hearing that people in Europe do a better job of handling booze but part of me thinks that it's not that much better then it is here. Either way sometimes you find that life is one big hockey rink.[/quote]

Goodbye Alcohol, Hello Marijuana.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=tryfuhl;564240]People need to get to choppin' up the stairs then, that should move faster than an escalator[/quote]

Or upgrade to club level, Ive never seen that escalator broken. If your in the nosebleeds you should come prepared with walking shoes.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=firstdown;564157]God you guys read stuff and bitch like a bunch of girls about stuff that's not even what was said in the article. It did not say you could not tailgate. It said if you want to have a big tailgate party you have to go to the back of the parking lot if you wil be TAKING UP MORE THAN ONE PARKING SPOT. So if you need one parking spot and can tailgait behind your car then your good to go. What gives people the right to block others with a pass from parking in a spot when someone feels the need to take up 2 to 3 spots. Its no big deal.[/quote]

reading the new rule i thought all tailgating has to be done in the back rows of the lots. that begs the question what they consider tailgating. is drinking a 30 pack with 5 buddies around your car/truck tailgating? do you need to have a bbq grill fired up to be considered tailgating? do you need a grill, tent and other things that require additional space to be considered tailgating?

if the new rule restricts the large tent popping 5 space tailgating party to teh back rows then great. makes sense.

but i hope you are still allowed to do the small tailgate without taking up spaces in any area of the lots. i got a small lil gas grill and a smokey joe. i dont need to take up any extra parking spots. can i still fire up the joe and drink a beer? hell, now that i think about it i'll just walk over to the tailgating section and party!

im gonna wait unitl i see how this effects the pre-game which might not be as important to some of you here but means alot to others. just cause you dont tailgate doesnt mean you should be against people who do take it serious.

go skins!!

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=WaldSkins;564348]

Goodbye Alcohol, Hello Marijuana.[/quote]

Imagine a stadium full of stoned fans LOL

It would be tough to get a wave going, everyone would be too lazy to stand up. It might be a quiet crowd too, not too many rowdy stoners out there typically. Concessions sure would make a ton of loot though.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564487]Imagine a stadium full of stoned fans LOL

It would be tough to get a wave going, everyone would be too lazy to stand up. It might be a quiet crowd too, not too many rowdy stoners out there typically. Concessions sure would make a ton of loot though.[/quote]

That would be one sorry wave for real. :laughing-

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=over the mountain;564451]reading the new rule i thought all tailgating has to be done in the back rows of the lots. that begs the question what they consider tailgating. is drinking a 30 pack with 5 buddies around your car/truck tailgating? do you need to have a bbq grill fired up to be considered tailgating? do you need a grill, tent and other things that require additional space to be considered tailgating?

if the new rule restricts the large tent popping 5 space tailgating party to teh back rows then great. makes sense.

but i hope you are still allowed to do the small tailgate without taking up spaces in any area of the lots. i got a small lil gas grill and a smokey joe. i dont need to take up any extra parking spots. can i still fire up the joe and drink a beer? hell, now that i think about it i'll just walk over to the tailgating section and party!

im gonna wait unitl i see how this effects the pre-game which might not be as important to some of you here but means alot to others. just cause you dont tailgate doesnt mean you should be against people who do take it serious.

go skins!![/quote]

article states that it's for people wanting to take up multiple spots and you're more than welcome to use the space in front of your parking spot for a setup

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564487]Imagine a stadium full of stoned fans LOL

It would be tough to get a wave going, everyone would be too lazy to stand up. It might be a quiet crowd too, not too many rowdy stoners out there typically. Concessions sure would make a ton of loot though.[/quote]

hahahaha, as if we could get anymore apathetic at times

start seeing a bunch of guys saying "oh those dallas fans aren't that bad man.. plus they got some gooood bud"

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;564338][B]I wonder if we'll ever have a true backlash against alcohol in this country.[/B] Part of me thinks that it's in the works and eventually people will realize they can lead more productive lives by limiting themselves to getting tanked once a weak rather then every other day but who knows.

Anyway it amazes me how central alcohol is to peoples lives. At least in a college town like the one I'm in. I swear all some people talk about is what they did when they were drunk and how they're going to get their next stash of booze. I mean don't get me wrong some of those stories are fun but it starts to get weird when you realize all of a persons stories stem from how wasted they were and how they divulge into the same subtopics such as fighting, throwing up, or blacking out. Eventually it gets to the point where you start thinking along the lines of "this guy is a douche."

I keep on hearing that people in Europe do a better job of handling booze but part of me thinks that it's not that much better then it is here. Either way sometimes you find that [B]life is one big hockey rink.[/B][/quote]

We had the granddaddy of all anti-alcohol backlashes already: Prohibition. That didn't work out too well.

I like the hockey rink analogy.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=WaldSkins;564348][B][B][/B][/B]

Goodbye Alcohol, Hello Marijuana.[/quote]

Why not both? Drunk stoners might enact the greatest of all waves.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Lotus;564525]We had the granddaddy of all anti-alcohol backlashes already: Prohibition. That didn't work out too well.

I like the hockey rink analogy.[/quote]

I was thinking of that when I typed that post and I agree that prohibition was a dumb idea. For a true alcohol backlash to work it would have to still be legal but less socially acceptable akin to the way cigarettes are looked at today. It's the type of thing where if you force people to do it they'll try and fight against it, however if they decide on their own then it'll be more effective then any law could be.

I'm glad though that the hockey rink analogy didn't go unnoticed which reminds me NHL draft on Friday. I would throw a bone to the NBA draft but that's pretty much over for the Wizards now.

[quote=Lotus;564527]Why not both? Drunk stoners might enact the greatest of all waves.[/quote]

Oh God, just what the world needs a group of happy, violent, lazy, horny people :D

[quote=tryfuhl;564517]hahahaha, as if we could get anymore apathetic at times

start seeing a bunch of guys saying "oh those dallas fans aren't that bad man.. plus they got some gooood bud"[/quote]

You guys laugh but ironically thats how it would go down.

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;564338]I wonder if we'll ever have a true backlash against alcohol in this country. Part of me thinks that it's in the works and eventually people will realize they can lead more productive lives by limiting themselves to getting tanked once a weak rather then every other day but who knows.

Anyway it amazes me how central alcohol is to peoples lives. At least in a college town like the one I'm in. I swear all some people talk about is what they did when they were drunk and how they're going to get their next stash of booze. I mean don't get me wrong some of those stories are fun but it starts to get weird when you realize all of a persons stories stem from how wasted they were and how they divulge into the same subtopics such as fighting, throwing up, or blacking out. Eventually it gets to the point where you start thinking along the lines of "this guy is a douche."

I keep on hearing that people in Europe do a better job of handling booze but part of me thinks that it's not that much better then it is here. Either way sometimes you find that life is one big hockey rink.[/quote]

I'm a big fan of listening to old time radio shows from the 1940 and 50s (comedies, detective stories, etc). Anyhow, when you listen to those shows cigarette companies play a major part. Not just from a sponsor level, but sometimes in the story line itself.

Even as late as the 60's you had guys like Johnny Carson smoking on set, news anchors smoking while giving the news, even coaches and players smoking on the sidelines.

And I'm sure you've all seen this

[YT]mZvHiiWFbBU[/YT]

Anyhow, it was not so long ago that cigarettes and ads for cigarettes were pretty prevalent and now...just saying right now it's hard to imagine any upcoming "backlash" against alcohol (or coffee, or fast food) but how many people really imagined just 50 years ago we'd feel that way about cigarettes

Re: Redskins to Restrict Large Tailgate Parties
 

[quote=Mattyk72;564043]I've never been a big fan of tailgating at games, concerts, whatever. If I'm going to an event it's to see the event, not to get all tanked up before hand. So even if I did go to games this wouldn't bother me.[/quote]


Agreed , first never been to e Redskin game at Fed Ex ...yes I've been to Redskin games but not at Fed Ex and yes I've been to Fed Ex.The problem is threw out the league.Giants at least have the race track or the Izode center to park at,plus you must remember if people taking up more then one spot ...well that's a spot that someone else might have.
At age 53 I can say I have never drank at a football game,I like my beer but I like to watch the game and.....well............why pay all that money and get three sheets to the wind?