Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;532489]First of all Buges went through what none of us wish on our worst enemy last year... obviously his group was going to suffer a bit as he missed time and understandably would have lost focus and you know what it's ok. We weren't serious contenders and Buges has given as much of himself to the franchise as anyone there.[/quote]

I wasn't busting on Bugel. You are right that he gives his all and his all is a lot.

I simply pointed out that even the best coach cannot rectify an incurably bad attitude, and Andre Smith seems to have such an attitude. He drank a bit too much of that "it's all about me" poisoned koolaid.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Lotus;532500]I wasn't busting on Bugel. You are right that he gives his all and his all is a lot.

[B]I simply pointed out that even the best coach cannot rectify an incurably bad attitude, and Andre Smith seems to have such an attitude. He drank a bit too much of that "it's all about me" poisoned koolaid.[/B][/quote]

Could be Lotus. I been thinking if we take Smith it's cuz Samuels got a chance to sit down, have a face-to-face and sort of evaluate him, make sure he's gonna be the next franchise OT and take it serious. Just saying if we grab him I'll be confident at that point in time because there was due diligence on our part...

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

If there's a starting quality RT sitting there at #13 and we pass... wow there's gonna be a lot of head scratching going on.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

I'm not completely sold on Smith, I'm wondering what all the hype about this kid is. He's proved to the world that he is lazy, I'd much rather have Oher here b/c I think he will end up having a better career. And better than him would be Eugene Monroe...but him slipping to us would be a miracle.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;532501]Could be Lotus. I been thinking if we take Smith it's cuz Samuels got a chance to sit down, have a face-to-face and sort of evaluate him, make sure he's gonna be the next franchise OT and take it serious. Just saying if we grab him I'll be confident at that point in time because there was due diligence on our part...[/quote]

Fair enough. But for my money we shouldn't use a #13 pick on someone whose attitude needs such molding and who still might be a problem. We should use a #13 pick on someone who simply needs a bit of polishing to become a shiny diamond.

It is possible that Oher, Monroe, or Jason Smith fall to #13. If not, there still should be Beatty and Britton, both of whom could be excellent tackles without Andre's baggage.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Lotus;532472]Andre Smith was a Combine flop because, in his words, he was "not in shape."

As a prospective NFL player, it is his job to be in shape! Would you go to a doctor who said he couldn't be bothered to keep up with medical advances? Would you go to a lawyer who said he didn't care about bar certification? Geez, Andre Smith would have been better off showing up at the Combine in a t-shirt which said "BUST" in block letters.

His talent doesn't matter - JUST SAY NO to Andre Smith.[/quote]

Ok so he made a mistake about getting in shape at the combine, but A) at least his stocks falling, because he's not ready to workout, than him killing someone or beating someone up in a club, B) the guy once he gets some training camp in him will perform believe me, he only allowed one sack in college, and had he shown up at the combine he's a definite top ten pick who we all wished we had, just watch his highlight reel in college

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;532446]If they really want get rid of Jansen, then they should cut him and eat his salary cap. Sign Runyan (as much as I hate him, he's a mauler) draft Mack this year and draft another T or 2 in 2010.[/quote]

Since none of these things is going to happen I won't spend too much time with it.

If they draft a lineman at 13 it HAS to be a tackle. They don't need a center right now, they need a tackle. Next year is a different story.

If they signed Runyan, Vinny should be fired immediately. Jansen is hopefully going to be the backup and then he is gone next year. They aren't cutting anyone who would count against the cap this year. (One of the reasons that trading Rogers for a pick(s) made zero sense)

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;532439]JLC said some retarded stuff here IMO. We need to add 2 or 3 LBs? Really? What the hell are we doing switching to a 3-4 defense before the season starts. We need one playmaker at OLB to ensure 1) Taylor play's at his pro-bowl position RDE 2) if there is an injury to one of the starters we have a guy to come in and play like a starter i.e. Blades. JLC is just making stuff up here...[/quote]

I think they need two linebackers. I don't think Rocky can be counted on as a fulltime linebacker. He has broken down or declined at the end of the year when given a full workload. I think they should platoon Rocky with another linebacker and try and have him healthy at the end of the year. He has been a stud at the beginning of the season and then is either on the shelf or benched.

I like the idea of working J Taylor as the SAM here and there but I do not think he should be a linebacker full time. Jason Taylor is a defensive end. We brought him here to be a disruptive force as an end. I like his versatility but if they make him the full time strong side LB they are wasting his talents.

I would say that ideally Blades is your first LB off the bench, not a full time starter. He is good but certainly not in the league of a healthy Rocky or Marcus Washington.

Now with Phat Albert eating up blockers 2 or 3 at a time, maybe we are fine but I would not be upset at all if we take 2 or 3 LBs in the draft.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Well it says in the article that some in the organization feel Heyer can be an above average RT. If the top o-linemen are gone at that point and there is an outstanding LB still on the board, it would'nt surprise me if we took him. Guys like Loadbolt (sp?) could conceivably still be there in the 3rd round or we could possibly work a deal to move up to the second. It really depends on how the draft falls I guess.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=53Fan;532515]Well it says in the article that some in the organization feel Heyer can be an above average RT. If the top o-linemen are gone at that point and there is an outstanding LB still on the board, it would'nt surprise me if we took him. Guys like Loadbolt (sp?) could conceivably still be there in the 3rd round or we could possibly work a deal to move up to the second. It really depends on how the draft falls I guess.[/quote]

I know you want to give Heyer a chance but to me he's average at best, so unless he has a monster offseason I don't see him improving to much. Would love it though if was able to. And as far as drafting Loadholt in the 3rd, it's definately a conceiveable option, but look how long it took to develop Dockery. Heck we seem to be going though the same thing Rhinehart right now. Any one of the big 4 could easily make an impact next year and onward.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;532461]I rather have Jansen and give him another chance. The only reason I say this is, if Jansen does get cut then I would sign Runyan and give him a 1 year contract and plug the whole for this year.[/quote]

jansen can't get cut. it's cheaper to keep him, so he's here regardless.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=70Chip;532487]Six names. You have access to all the power of ESPN and you come up with 6 names. How many people have played the position in the last fifteen years? Hundreds. I stand by my contention that if it looks like a bust, smells like a bust, lives in the training room like a bust, and can't memorize plays like a bust, then it is probably a bust.[/quote]

do you're own research then. the list is pretty long... mccardell didn't do anything till his 4th year, ginn had 400 yards his rookie season (and he started 9 games)... winslow had 2 crappy years ;), coles only had 370 his first season (another guy that started games). burress had 270 his rookie year (starting 9 games - and 0 TDs). hines ward had 240 yards as a rookie.

search nfl.com if you want more. it's VERY rare for a WR to jump in like boldin or colston.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=That Guy;532527]do you're own research then. the list is pretty long... mccardell didn't do anything till his 4th year, ginn had 400 yards his rookie season (and he started 9 games)... winslow had 2 crappy years ;), coles only had 370 his first season (another guy that started games). burress had 270 his rookie year (starting 9 games - and 0 TDs). hines ward had 240 yards as a rookie.

search nfl.com if you want more. it's VERY rare for a WR to jump in like boldin or colston.[/quote]

It's not even worth discussing, he said there weren't any at all. Clearly that's wrong. But he still believes what he believes. I guess we should just draft more wide receivers this year

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Interesting four page read about a WAPO Insider article of pure conjecture!

Insider apparently doesn't access CC/Schneed's salary cap page here in the Warpath! We still have some Cap wiggle room. Everything written in the Insider needs to be taken with a grain of salt!

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=backrow;532537]Interesting four page read about a WAPO Insider article of pure conjecture!

Insider apparently doesn't access CC/Schneed's salary cap page here in the Warpath! We still have some Cap wiggle room. Everything written in the Insider needs to be taken with a grain of salt![/quote]
My thoughts exactly. As was written in another thread by several people, the Post no longer has any "inside" info. In fact, the casual fan who watches Total Access has more insider info on the Skins.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;532453] Jansen will make a very good back-up IMO and wouldn't be surprised to see him compete on the interior, depending on Thomas' status.[/quote]

I've been preaching this for awhile now. Jansen's diminished quickness hurts him against end rushers and OLB blitzing, but he's still good in the running game. A switch to guard would not only extend his career but I actually think he would be an upgrade to Thomas.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SmootSmack;532534]It's not even worth discussing, he said there weren't any at all. Clearly that's wrong. But he still believes what he believes. I guess we should just draft more wide receivers this year[/quote]

Who needs research when you have the smell test? Don't you know that trumps all?

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

We need to move Randy Thomas to right tackle and try that out and move Jansen to right guard. Thomas has always been a better pass blocker than run blocker which we need for our west coast offense to take root. If the injuries are behind Thomas is more than capable for the adjustment since he is athletic.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Not sure I like the idea of experimenting with moving guys around. Let's do the smart thing and draft a starter at RT and go from there.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Mattyk72;532564]Not sure I like the idea of experimenting with moving guys around. Let's do the smart thing and draft a starter at RT and go from there.[/quote]
Bingo! AND maybe JJ can play a little bu (if his ego can stand it) and maybe.......he can compete at R guard.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=That Guy;532527]do you're own research then. the list is pretty long... mccardell didn't do anything till his 4th year, ginn had 400 yards his rookie season (and he started 9 games)... winslow had 2 crappy years ;), coles only had 370 his first season (another guy that started games). burress had 270 his rookie year (starting 9 games - and 0 TDs). hines ward had 240 yards as a rookie.

search nfl.com if you want more. it's VERY rare for a WR to jump in like boldin or colston.[/quote]

Here's my list of every receiver drafted in the first two rounds since 2000. Which excludes guys like the Real Steve Smith (3rd round) and Colston among others. It gave me a less than sanguine outlook on Thomas especially. I would actually say the guys who come from nowhere are more the exception than the rule.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27618-our-wrs-in-2009-my-thoughts-11.html#post522944[/url]

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;532512]If they signed Runyan, Vinny should be fired immediately. Jansen is hopefully going to be the backup and then he is gone next year. They aren't cutting anyone who would count against the cap this year. (One of the reasons that trading Rogers for a pick(s) made zero sense)[/quote]

I posted this cause a lot of people in this forum want Jansen gone. Personally I want him to be given one more chance, as for signing Runyan, it would have to be a 1 year contract just to fill the hole if they decide to cut Jansen. Runyan is in his mid 30's and can still play and I just don't see people lining up to signing him unless it's for the vet minimum in which you don't break the bank if you draft someone with the 13th pick. We just spent 180mil on 3 players and our cap space is close, especially after the draft. My theory is you trade down get Mack instead of some questionable T and fill the position the next year.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;532520]I know you want to give Heyer a chance but to me he's average at best, so unless he has a monster offseason I don't see him improving to much. Would love it though if was able to. And as far as drafting Loadholt in the 3rd, it's definately a conceiveable option, but look how long it took to develop Dockery. Heck we seem to be going though the same thing Rhinehart right now. Any one of the big 4 could easily make an impact next year and onward.[/quote]

Well you're right Dirtbag. I would like to see Heyer given a real chance at RT, but if one of the top 4 tackles is still there at 13, I think we should take him, or Mack, but I'm not gonna keep harping on that. If nothing else Heyer adds depth. But I could see if they're gone at 13 and a LB like Maualuga is still there, Vinny catching that sparkle out of the corner of his eye and saying " OOHHH.....what's that?" and picking up a LB that he thinks is a better value instead of reaching for a lesser OT that is not as high on the board. Which you really could'nt blame him as LB is also a position of need. With pro day coming up it's hard to tell right now who is going to be available. Players are still gonna be rising and falling. I think we could get by this year with the LB's we have if we had to, so a HOSS at RT would certainly be the #1 choice if one is available. And I agree that any one of the big 4 would pay dividends for years. But if they are gone, then going LB with the first pick and looking at guys like Fulton, Loadbolt, and Vollmer in the 3rd may be our only choice. Barring any change in draft position of course. If we had a second round pick I think guys like Britton, Beatty, and Meredith could possibly still be around. Of course it all depends on their pro days and some experts have as many as 6 OT's going in the first round.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;532627]I posted this cause a lot of people in this forum want Jansen gone. Personally I want him to be given one more chance, as for signing Runyan, it would have to be a 1 year contract just to fill the hole if they decide to cut Jansen. Runyan is in his mid 30's and can still play and I just don't see people lining up to signing him unless it's for the vet minimum in which you don't break the bank if you draft someone with the 13th pick. We just spent 180mil on 3 players and our cap space is close, especially after the draft. My theory is you trade down get Mack instead of some questionable T and fill the position the next year.[/quote]

Why would Runyan sign a one year deal? It doesn't make sense for him or his agent. I don't see Runyan as much of an upgrade from Jansen.

There is a reason that we have the 13th pick, only 12 teams were worse than us. We don't need a backup center with our first round pick we need a starting tackle.

I don't know which of the four top tackles are questionable. That Outland Trophy that Andre Smith earned answers all of my questions.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;532634]Why would Runyan sign a one year deal? It doesn't make sense for him or his agent. I don't see Runyan as much of an upgrade from Jansen.

There is a reason that we have the 13th pick, only 12 teams were worse than us. We don't need a backup center with our first round pick we need a starting tackle.

I don't know which of the four top tackles are questionable. That Outland Trophy that Andre Smith earned answers all of my questions.[/quote]

Mack can play C or G, Thomas is a ?. Rinehart can play T so can Heyer, no one is going to sign Runyan for more than 2 years. People complain about Jansen being injured all the time, Runyan is always on the field and knows the NFC East opponents well. Smith right now is a ? unless he changes his way till draft day.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;532643]Mack can play C or G, Thomas is a ?. Rinehart can play T so can Heyer, no one is going to sign Runyan for more than 2 years. People complain about Jansen being injured all the time, Runyan is always on the field and knows the NFC East opponents well. Smith right now is a ? unless he changes his way till draft day.[/quote]

So we should bench Randy Thomas for a rookie and bring in John Runyan who is a frickin eagle and is a liability in pass pro just like Jansen. That would mean 3 of the 5 starters on the line are gone and two of the new starters know nothing about our system. Musical chairs on the line is usually a bad idea. Mack won his awards (which don't add up to Rinehart) at center, why would we draft him and make him a guard?

Is the goal to go after David Carr's record for sacks or to try and win the division?

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;532657]So we should bench Randy Thomas for a rookie and bring in John Runyan who is a frickin eagle and is a liability in pass pro just like Jansen. That would mean 3 of the 5 starters on the line are gone and two of the new starters know nothing about our system. Musical chairs on the line is usually a bad idea. Mack won his awards (which don't add up to Rinehart) at center, why would we draft him and make him a guard?

Is the goal to go after David Carr's record for sacks or to try and win the division?[/quote]

Mack would play G for a season and move to C after Rabach is probably released next year, Mack can start right away and adds insurance if Thomas doesn't comeback from surgery or Rabach gets hurt.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Absolutely NO to signing John Runyan. He had the dreaded microfracture surgery on his knee and he turns 36 this year. We don't need any more injury prone old guys on the O-line.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Why do we need a quick fix with an old o-lineman , isn't that the problem we are having now? We don't need grandpa Runyon (even though he's from my hometown Flint,Mi) he's too old..

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Eknox;532710]Why do we need a quick fix with an old o-lineman , isn't that the problem we are having now? We don't need grandpa Runyon (even though he's from my hometown Flint,Mi) he's too old..[/quote]

You going to tell him that the next time you see him in town? [IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG]

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Vinny is a survivor, if nothing else. If Awol Smith is there at #13, I think he knows better than drafting him and shelling out many millions guaranteed to someone who clearly does not have his head straight, regardless of need. All bets are off though if we trade down to the 20's and he's still there :)

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

The line was doing great the first half,then the aches and pains of old age started to take over.We need quality youth on both sides of the line.Smith would be an excelent pick at 13,just what we need.Unless we can trade and get two quality guys for the price of one.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=SmootSmack;532534]It's not even worth discussing, he said there weren't any at all. Clearly that's wrong. But he still believes what he believes. I guess we should just draft more wide receivers this year[/quote]

We should but we won't. Instead we will have to make do with assurances that prosperity is right around the corner.

They all know that Thomas is a bust at Redskins Park, they just can't admit it. Kelly has promise, but he's apparently got the knee that won't heal, like Gilbert Arenas or Lavar Arrington. (I think Rocky Mcintosh has it as well) I hope you guys are right, but honestly, do you really think these two will ever amount to anything? If you could trade Thomas and Kelly for 1 second round pick today, wouldn't you do it? I sure would. But who would have them? Who would be almost as stupid as us? (We gave up two second round picks for them) No one, that's who.

To pretend that the defense was the problem last year and to have intelligent people believe it, boggles the mind. "Gee, if the defense had only given up three points we could have beaten Pittsburgh." "If we hadn't given up 16 points to THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPS, our 7 points would have been great". Honestly, who held the Giants to 16 in the first 12 weeks of the season?

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=Angry;532715]You going to tell him that the next time you see him in town? [IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Hey, I'm not that crazy..lol

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=70Chip;532953]We should but we won't. Instead we will have to make do with assurances that prosperity is right around the corner.

[B]They all know that Thomas is a bust at Redskins Park, they just can't admit it. Kelly has promise, but he's apparently got the knee that won't heal, like Gilbert Arenas or Lavar Arrington. (I think Rocky Mcintosh has it as well) I hope you guys are right, but honestly, do you really think these two will ever amount to anything? If you could trade Thomas and Kelly for 1 second round pick today, wouldn't you do it? I sure would. But who would have them? Who would be almost as stupid as us? (We gave up two second round picks for them) No one, that's who. [/B]

To pretend that the defense was the problem last year and to have intelligent people believe it, boggles the mind. "Gee, if the defense had only given up three points we could have beaten Pittsburgh." "If we hadn't given up 16 points to THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPS, our 7 points would have been great". Honestly, who held the Giants to 16 in the first 12 weeks of the season?[/quote]

What's w/ all the negativity surrounding Thomas/Kelly. First of all, have you watched vids of Thomas w/ the ball in his hand? His athleticism is off the chart... I'll say right now that after Moss this kid will be the most explosive player on offense WHEN HE HAS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. And that's the crux of it. He never learned to run routes and, oh what a surprise, has shown poor hands. HIXON! Who's f'ing job is it to see that the 2 rookies in your group 1) take the off-season serious 2) learn the playbook like the back if their hand 3) learn to run crisp routes. What's the problem... Hixon has too many other responsibilities. RIDICULOUS. Meanwhile Kelly was an excellent route runner in college and had great hands... gets to Redskin Park and looks like he's a basketball player in football pads.

... please don't throw our rookies under the bus when their direct coach has never developed an NFL player in his entire career. The only real mistake the FO has made this year, and it's a huge one IMO, is keeping Hixon on the staff.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

It's time for the old man to move on. Good luck to him in broadcasting.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

Saden, can you get over to Ray Willis' house and make sure he doesn't sign w/ another team until the FO gets its shit together?

... gracias.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;533060]Saden, can you get over to Ray Willis' house and make sure he doesn't sign w/ another team until the FO gets its shit together?

... gracias.[/quote]

Excellent idea. Now that J.Taylor's $8.5 mil. are free, it is time to pull the trigger on Willis.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;533033]What's w/ all the negativity surrounding Thomas/Kelly. First of all, have you watched vids of Thomas w/ the ball in his hand? His athleticism is off the chart... I'll say right now that after Moss this kid will be the most explosive player on offense WHEN HE HAS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. And that's the crux of it. He never learned to run routes and, oh what a surprise, has shown poor hands. HIXON! Who's f'ing job is it to see that the 2 rookies in your group 1) take the off-season serious 2) learn the playbook like the back if their hand 3) learn to run crisp routes. What's the problem... Hixon has too many other responsibilities. RIDICULOUS. Meanwhile Kelly was an excellent route runner in college and had great hands... gets to Redskin Park and looks like he's a basketball player in football pads.

... please don't throw our rookies under the bus when their direct coach has never developed an NFL player in his entire career. The only real mistake the FO has made this year, and it's a huge one IMO, is keeping Hixon on the staff.[/quote]I normally agree with your analysis' of the situation, but the assumption that Hixon is all that is wrong with the development of our receivers, and using youtube type evidence to support it is something I strongly disagree with.

There is clearly no objective reason to believe that Hixon has any control over the long-term development over the young receivers. He's one of many coaches that these gentlemen have had over the life of their football careers, and it's a self-serving argument to ignore their development until last year in considering why a player with "youtube" skills and combine numbers could [I]possibly[/I] ever bust.

Furthermore, it's probably very, very wrong. To make the assumption that there's anything Hixon should have done that would have changed their plight...if not wrong, it's something that you can't pretend to know from the information that we have as fans.

You've heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation", well, this is you ignoring that really, really obviously.

Re: The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good
 

[quote=The Goat;533060]Saden, can you get over to Ray Willis' house and make sure he doesn't sign w/ another team until the FO gets its shit together?

... gracias.[/quote]

Have you ever seen the Seahawk's running/passing game with him on the field? I don't think you would want him, he can't play football.