Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Mattyk72;530976]You know I really don't think Hall's deal is that out of line. Not when you compare it to some deals that big name CBs have gotten in recent years.[/quote] Let's face it you have to stop the run in the NFL East and both AH and Hall do both and Hall should get a lot INT's. To win the east or the NFC you have to stop the run and shorten the field for your O!

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Again, solid move. $15 million guaranteed and Hall was arguably the best corner back still on the market. Only thing that sucks is, combined with the Hayneworth deal, this probably seals the fate of Springs. I am OK with that EXCEPT the fact the Redskins seem intent on dealing Rogers to recoup draft pick(s). Does that mean the other starter is Fred Smoot? Dear God PLEASE NO!

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Yeah the writing seems to be on the wall for Springs, but I have a feeling Rogers will stay.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Mattyk72;530976]You know I really don't think Hall's deal is that out of line. Not when you compare it to some deals that big name CBs have gotten in recent years.[/quote]

exactly. same w/ haynesworth, really. yes its an astronomical amount of money. but the market dictates what is acceptable and this is the state of the market.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Mattyk72;530997]Yeah the writing seems to be on the wall for Springs, but I have a feeling Rogers will stay.[/quote]

Let's hope so because last season should have been evidence to the Redskins that Smoot is nothing more than a third corner.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

we spent dans money good that is what matters now go get haynsworth

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Time for everyone to pop some champagne, we once again have the off season Lombardi...

I'm definitely more excited for next season than I was yesterday. This defense is going to be NASTY. I feel that our offense was more than a player away from greatness, but our defense was a player or two away from being solid...


We just found one of those players.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Like many of you, I was nervous about Hall last year with his reputation coming from Atlanta and Oakland...but he behaved and made some huge INTs for us, a usual weakness for this team. He proved us all wrong. I'm sold on him now and very happy we resigned him.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

I Look Both The Moves Personally. Hall Made More Int's In 4 Games Than The Rest Of The Corners Did All Season. Well Almost. Where Is This Rumor Coming From About Rogers Being Traded Off. That Makes No Senses, He's Under Contract. Springs Is Obviously Gone, Unless Taking A Pay Cut And I Don't See Taylor Here Either Without A Pay Cut. The Only Problem I See With The Ah Signing Is We'll Probably Do What We Do With Big Names And Make Them Do Something Totally Diffrent Than What Made Them A Star In The First Place. Thus Their A Bust And Our Cap Has More Dead Money. Let’s Hope There Is No Collective Bargaining Agreement Next Year And We Can Write It All Off For 2010 With A Clean Slate.

Ps Some On This Site Need A Chill Pill. Everyone Has An Opinion, Why The Need To Call Idiots And The Like. We Are For The Most Part All Skins Fans! Let’s Save That Crap For The Other Guys.

Peace

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

I dont like this deal at all. We paid too much for Hall. Initially, Hall was asking for 16M garaunteed and we were standing firm at 12. Because we waited, and other players were getting resigned by their teams for top dollars, Hall realized he was more valuable than he initially thought and we had to pay too much (in my opinion) to keep him.

Interestingly, on the podcast on espn980, Cerrato said another team (most likely the Patriots) had a slightly higher offer on the table but Hall chose to stay here. Whether thats true or not, i dont know.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=jtyreeiii;531038]I Look Both The Moves Personally. Hall Made More Int's In 4 Games Than The Rest Of The Corners Did All Season. Well Almost. Where Is This Rumor Coming From About Rogers Being Traded Off. That Makes No Senses, He's Under Contract. Springs Is Obviously Gone, Unless Taking A Pay Cut And I Don't See Taylor Here Either Without A Pay Cut. The Only Problem I See With The Ah Signing Is We'll Probably Do What We Do With Big Names And Make Them Do Something Totally Diffrent Than What Made Them A Star In The First Place. Thus Their A Bust And Our Cap Has More Dead Money. Let’s Hope There Is No Collective Bargaining Agreement Next Year And We Can Write It All Off For 2010 With A Clean Slate.

Ps Some On This Site Need A Chill Pill. Everyone Has An Opinion, Why The Need To Call Idiots And The Like. We Are For The Most Part All Skins Fans! Let’s Save That Crap For The Other Guys.

Peace[/quote]

Good post. But no need to capitalize the first letter of every word, makes it a bit hard to read.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Buster;531028]Like many of you, I was nervous about Hall last year with his reputation coming from Atlanta and Oakland...but he behaved and made some huge INTs for us, a usual weakness for this team. He proved us all wrong. I'm sold on him now and very happy we resigned him.[/quote]

He behaved for a couple months b/c he knew this was his last shot. He's a known for being disruptive in Atlanta, Oakland, and at VATech. So he's all of a sudden changed in a couple months? Doubt it.

We grossly overpaid him again. Personal issues aside he is an above average corner at best that has had trouble in protection over the years.

I would have been happy w/ a decent incentive based contract.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=redsk1;531272]He behaved for a couple months b/c he knew this was his last shot. He's a known for being disruptive in Atlanta, Oakland, and at VATech. So he's all of a sudden changed in a couple months? Doubt it.

We grossly overpaid him again. Personal issues aside he is an above average corner at best that has had trouble in protection over the years.

I would have been happy w/ a decent incentive based contract.[/quote]

I would have rather kept springs, signed Rogers to extension and signed Leigh Bodden. I just don't trust this guy, we'll see... if or how he burns us. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531291]I would have rather kept springs, signed Rogers to extension and signed Leigh Bodden. I just don't trust this guy, we'll see... if or how he burns us. I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

And you trust Springs' health?

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531291]I would have rather kept springs, signed Rogers to extension and signed Leigh Bodden. I just don't trust this guy, we'll see... if or how he burns us. I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

Why do you trust Bodden and not Hall?

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=redsk1;531272]He behaved for a couple months b/c he knew this was his last shot. He's a known for being disruptive in Atlanta, Oakland, and at VATech. So he's all of a sudden changed in a couple months? Doubt it.

We grossly overpaid him again. Personal issues aside he is an above average corner at best that has had trouble in protection over the years.

I would have been happy w/ a decent incentive based contract.[/quote]

That sums it up for me w/the exception of him being above avg. at best. I think if he worked hard (he's got a reputation for not studying much in practice) he could be one of the top 5 cb's if not the best in the nfl. He has all the tools, he's just a self-absorbed ass that seems to alienate people wherever he goes.
PS. So glad someone besides me finally mentioned his rep at VT!

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531291]I would have rather kept springs, signed Rogers to extension and signed Leigh Bodden. I just don't trust this guy, we'll see... if or how he burns us. I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

I like the contract. We (Skins FO) wanted Hall and did what we had to do to keep him. As far as Hall is concerned. He's a favorite player of mine so I'm glad he's here. My outlook on his performance: [I][B]Modern day Prime Time [/B][/I](Shields up!)

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Foxworth just signed with Baltimore. If foxworth is making slightly less money than Hall (about 20M garaunteed) then we'll have actuallly signed hall to a reasonable contract. On the other hand, if Foxworth is making 18 or less, then we'll have grossly overpaid. him.

Also, Hall told ESPN980 that his goal for the 2009 season is to set the record for interceptions in a year for a cornerback. Sounds like he wants to earn his pay. Good for him.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531308]Foxworth just signed with Baltimore. If foxworth is making slightly less money than Hall (about 20M garaunteed) then we'll have actuallly signed hall to a reasonable contract. On the other hand, if Foxworth is making 18 or less, then we'll have grossly overpaid. him.

Also, Hall told ESPN980 that his goal for the 2009 season is to set the record for interceptions in a year for a cornerback. Sounds like he wants to earn his pay. Good for him.[/quote]

I think Foxworth is getting around $16 million guaranteed

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=freddyg12;531299]That sums it up for me w/the exception of him being above avg. at best. I think if he worked hard (he's got a reputation for not studying much in practice) he could be one of the top 5 cb's if not the best in the nfl. He has all the tools, he's just a self-absorbed ass that seems to alienate people wherever he goes.
PS. So glad someone besides me finally mentioned his rep at VT![/quote]

Yea, i'm all for second chances. But it amazes me that some can cast aside years and years of bad behavior w/ a couple months of good behavior and say he's a changed man.

What if we lose some games? How's he going to act then? Anyone?

The skins have made it a priority to bring in high quality guys over the last 5 years. They've done a great job at it. I don't think this one is one of them.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=redsk1;531320]Yea, i'm all for second chances. But it amazes me that some can cast aside years and years of bad behavior w/ a couple months of good behavior and say he's a changed man.

What if we lose some games? How's he going to act then? Anyone?

The skins have made it a priority to bring in high quality guys over the last 5 years. They've done a great job at it. I don't think this one is one of them.[/quote]

Did we go undefeated with him here? Did I miss something?

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SmootSmack;531297]Why do you trust Bodden and not Hall?[/quote]

I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=redsk1;531320]Yea, i'm all for second chances. [b]But it amazes me that some can cast aside years and years of bad behavior w/ a couple months of good behavior and say he's a changed man. [/b]

What if we lose some games? How's he going to act then? Anyone?

The skins have made it a priority to bring in high quality guys over the last 5 years. They've done a great job at it. I don't think this one is one of them.[/quote]
Please outline the 'years and years' of bad behavior, I'd love to hear and see the evidence on that one. He was not a problem for Jim Mora in Atlanta. EVERYONE had a problem with Bobby Petrino. We never heard of any off the field incidents with Oakland. He was a model citizen in DC.

You asked about how is he going to act when we lose some games? That's pretty much all we did when he was here last year, how did he act then?

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531326]I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.[/quote]

He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SmootSmack;531341]He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good[/quote]

We'll shall see how good Hall is. I'll remind you later.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303]Domonique Foxworth[/url]

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531326]I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.[/quote]

The only foul that Hall committed as a Redskins was....

[B]vs. Giants[/B]
[I]PENALTY on WAS-D.Hall, Personal Foul, 8 yards, enforced at WAS 16. Late hit[/I]

So I don't know what other personal fouls you are talking about. I looked it up, if you don't trust me then go to ESPN, go the the Redskins schedule, click on each game and check the Play-by-Play.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

Glad Hall is back. Unfortunately, this is the kind of contract that usually screws the team over, assuming the 22 million guarenteed figure is correct.

Nothing Hall has ever done in his career suggests he's worth that much money, so the team is paying for potential. Too often, players get paid for what they are not instead of what they are.

Meanwhile, the Patriots get to talk to Springs now with no serious financial commitment.

This, unquestionably, is a bad contract. Whether we spend the next three years talking about how bad the contract is, or how good a player Hall is -- that's totally up to Hall.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Ruhskins;531352]The only foul that Hall committed as a Redskins was....

[B]vs. Giants[/B]
[I]PENALTY on WAS-D.Hall, Personal Foul, 8 yards, enforced at WAS 16. Late hit[/I]

So I don't know what other personal fouls you are talking about. I looked it up, if you don't trust me then go to ESPN, go the the Redskins schedule, click on each game and check the Play-by-Play.[/quote]

He had another one (can't remember the game) but when he was with Atlanta and Oakland it was pretty common. Did you watch the first Oakland game against Denver? He had like 3 PF and was getting burned left and right.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531350]Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303]Domonique Foxworth[/url][/quote]

For those interested:

Scouts' Report on [B]D. Hall[/B]

[SIZE="3"][FONT="Garamond"]2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 83 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Hall started 15-of-16 games last year. He's a very good athlete with adequate size. He's a quick-twitch athlete who can flip his hips and accelerate extremely well. He has a rare burst in his movements with very good confidence in his recovery skills. If he misses a jam, he does not stay in a trail position very long. He does an excellent job of mirroring all types of routes. He has the ability to maintain leverage on receivers downfield with some suddenness to undercut routes at the break points. He's very smooth with his speed turns and flips. He also has good solid route recognition and ball skills. He has very good ball awareness with good timing on his reach to break up or intercept passes. He has a knack for reading a receivers' body reaction with his back to the quarterback. Hall has long arms for his size and good vertical leaping ability to go up and adjust. When he's playing off he will often open his hips early. He doesn't stay in his pedal very long and he has had some trouble versus quick outs and hitches. He also has a tendency to bite on double moves because he is so aggressive. However, he has excellent reactions to screens and check downs. He closes hard and fast off his plant and drive. As a tackler, he doesn't always wrap up, but is an effective block tackler who can take out a runners' legs quickly with surprising closing quickness.[/FONT][/SIZE]

And Scouts' Report on [B]Foxworth:[/B]

[SIZE="3"][FONT="Garamond"]2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 67 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Foxworth, a four-year veteran, is a backup who sees a lot of action as Denver's primary nickelback. He is a good athlete who has the quick feet and loose hips to smoothly turn and run with receivers. He's quick in transition and shows a good burst to close on the ball. He has a nice recovery burst to catch up when a receiver does manage to get a step on him downfield. He can extend the cushion with his backpedal and shows good route recognition from zone. He lacks ideal size and strength. He can be overpowered by bigger receivers and he isn't the strongest tackler in run support. He has improved his ability to locate the ball as a receiver reacts, but his ball skills still need some work. Foxworth seems on track to win a starting job somewhere in the near future, but his size limitations will prevent him from rising to elite status.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531350]Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. [B] Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth?[/B] Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303]Domonique Foxworth[/url][/quote]

Given he's been to two pro bowls and had at least 5 ints in his last 3 sesons I would think so. He's not worth 22.5 mil but he's worth a hella alot more than the Foxworth contract.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531350]Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303"]Domonique Foxworth[/URL][/quote]To me, these guys are identical players. And that's a lot of money for Foxworth as well.

I think the correct move would have been to wait this one out. Hall is part of a large glut of No. 2 corners available on the market this year, and inevitably, the ones that last the longest will be paid the least.

So by waiting it out, we could have saved 10-15 million in guaranteed money. This would have also forced us to accept that Hall might have got impatient and bolted. To me, that's an "oh well" kind of thing. But from Snyder's perspective, Hall is far more marketable to the Redskins than is Bodden or Bly (both local kids as well), and in this case the price of getting Hall over whoever the market left on the table was one year of Shawn Springs' career.

To me, that's not worth it, it kills our depth in the short term. To others on this form, I think the contract may be justifiable, especially if you don't see Springs as any loss at all.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531350]Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303"]Domonique Foxworth[/URL][/quote]

Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Paintrain;531327]Please outline the 'years and years' of bad behavior, I'd love to hear and see the evidence on that one. He was not a problem for Jim Mora in Atlanta. EVERYONE had a problem with Bobby Petrino. We never heard of any off the field incidents with Oakland. He was a model citizen in DC.

You asked about how is he going to act when we lose some games? That's pretty much all we did when he was here last year, how did he act then?[/quote]

He was a known as a "me" guy at VA Tech and not a good teammate for the 3 years he was there (i think 3). He was a bad loser in ATL and what was called a locker room cancer. Oakland cut him for god sakes. What does that tell you?

He has been a model citizen here for all of about 2-3 months b/c he needs another contract.

Listen, I hope he does well here. I hope he shuts up and plays like he did for 2 months. I just gotta see it. He's been 3 places and has got a bad rep at all 3.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

The good news is that this contract should NOT prevent us from getting something long term done with Rogers at a later date. It simply cost us valuable depth in Springs.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=GMScud;531363]Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.[/quote]

Good question. Probably because no one of that was ever really true. JLC threw up speculation about 7 years, $48 million and some "reputable source" at ES said that word on the street was he was asking for $16 million. But the two sides didn't even start talking, really talking (as in talking dollars) last week at the combine. So the numbers that were being thrown around prior to that were speculation. Educated speculation I'm sure, but speculation nonetheless

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SmootSmack;531370]Good question. Probably because no one of that was ever really true. JLC threw up speculation about 7 years, $48 million and some "reputable source" at ES said that word on the street was he was asking for $16 million. But the two sides didn't even start talking, really talking (as in talking dollars) last week at the combine. So the numbers that were being thrown around prior to that were speculation. Educated speculation I'm sure, but speculation nonetheless[/quote]

Yep, speculation that people took as gospel for whatever reason. Just goes to show that we're better off sticking with talking about what we know, not what we think we know.

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;531350]Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is [I]that[/I] much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

[URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3303"]Domonique Foxworth[/URL][/quote]

My first thought... who the heck is Domonique Foxworth?

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=Mattyk72;531372]Yep, speculation that people took as gospel for whatever reason. [B]Just goes to show that we're better off sticking with talking about what we know, not what we think we know[/B].[/quote]

That, good sir, would be discriminatory, as I would have almost nothing left to say :)

Re: Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;531357]He had another one (can't remember the game) but when he was with Atlanta and Oakland it was pretty common. Did you watch the first Oakland game against Denver? He had like 3 PF and was getting burned left and right.[/quote]


[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3102510]Flag these guys down when there's a penalty on the play - NFL - ESPN[/url]
FYI- I used 2007 season since J.Taylor didnt play much of 08 You might be suprised of who else is on the list. including more redskins.
Most of these guys are also some of the best in the league. And I would welcome many of them to DC

***I don't recall seeing Hall on the list

Some Redskins that made the list:
*Jason Taylor for the eighth-most penalties in the league, regardless of position

*Fred Smoot is another opportunistic offender. Smoot has 28 penalties since 2004, despite starting only eight games in 2005.

*Sean Taylor, who has 11, for the league lead.

* Mike Sellers