Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES;414424]Just to play Devils advocate, why is it that none of the other teams that needed a coach or a cordinator interviewed them?

Mabye they did and I didnt hear about it. But from what ive read we are the only ones that want either guy. Does the rest of the league know somethign we dont?[/QUOTE]

The redskins are the only team looking at retreads these days...the in thing in the league now is hiring young position coaches or coordinators.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

i,m with whoever synder picks cause he could careless what i think anyways.
either one aint all that bad to me....

it,s a wait and see ...

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;414437]Out of curiousity is 980 a trustworthy source? Over the past few years it feels like people have posted tons of rumors from 980 that seem to be false more times then not.

At the same time I hope that this one is true. Mooch would be perfect for this team.[/QUOTE]

Could be BS...I was just letting everyone know what they said. 980 just said "sources" said he was a candidate so it's not like the team confirmed anything but they have not confirmed anything in this really.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Because when we lose after week 3 next year to fall to 2-1 and people want to fire the coach, "Screw the Mooch" sounds better than "Bury the Fossil"

Seriously though, I think it's just that there is a perception (right or wrong) that Mariucci is a nicer guy who can more easily mend fences.

I think they're both good candidates (much better choice than Carroll) and all they really have to do is support Zorn and leave Blache to do his thing.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

My only concern with Fassel is that he has never had back to back winning seasons, while having pretty good teams with the Giants. If he is the new HC I hope he ends that streak in his first two seasons

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=celts32;414445]Could be BS...I was just letting everyone know what they said. 980 just said "sources" said he was a candidate so it's not like the team confirmed anything but they have not confirmed anything in this really.[/QUOTE]

Rule #1: Never trust SportsTalk 980 as your only source. The talent and producers there have alienated so many people inside Redskins Park over the past few years that they rarely, if ever, get the scoop on any news. If they say something, always double and triple cross check that it's being mentioned elsewhere.

Rule #2: Trust me :). No but seriously, I know the Redskins did meet with Mooch. But I can't remember where I heard this, when it happened, and what came of it.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;414315]Just curious why people are so strongly against bringing in Fassel, yet are pro Mariucci. Just wondering what the big difference is? Is it just because Mooch is on TV and is a likable guy?[/quote]


As of 4:15 NFL Live's John Clayton says that Fassel will be the next head coach of the Skins.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;414454]Rule #1: Never trust SportsTalk 980 as your only source. The talent and producers there have alienated so many people inside Redskins Park over the past few years that they rarely, if ever, get the scoop on any news. If they say something, always double and triple cross check that it's being mentioned elsewhere.

Rule #2: Trust me :). No but seriously, I know the Redskins did meet with Mooch. But I can't remember where I heard this, when it happened, and what came of it.[/quote]


Ill trust you because I firmly believe in my heart that when you said 'screw the mooch' you were thinking of the family guy episode 'screwed the pooch'. and great references like that are what make us 'knowledgeable fans' :)

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;414430]So, reading through the posts, the answer, Matty, is style over substance. "I just don't like the guy," "he reminds me of my high school teacher," "he reminds me of the Giants (uh, Spagnolo coached for the Giants and Eagles and I don't imagine we'd have the uproar), "he coached the Ravens and the Raven's weren't good on offense" (see note 1). I have not been a big fan of Fassel, but the love for Mooch vis a vis the Fassel hate is simply irrational and based simply upon perception. The real issue, I suspect, is a question of timing or a general lack of information on Mooch. If it goes down as JLC has speculated (and who knows at this point) and the fans generally embrace Mooch then it is only because Snyder is a smarter marketer than we are fans.

Note 1 - Fassel's career as an OC

1993 - Denver - #5 in NFL in total offense
1994 - Denver - #6 in NFL in total offense
1996 - Arizona - #13 in NFL in total offense
2004 - Baltimore - #31 in NFL (275 ypg) (one behind Gibbs led Redskins) who was QB?
2005 - Baltimore - #24 in NFL (293 ypg), who was the QB?
2006 - Baltimore fires Fassel (b/c Billick's job is on the line), gets a half-way decent QB in McNair ... offense skyrockets to ... wait for it ... #17 in NFL (317 ypg)
2007 - Baltimore - McNair hurt (and, admittedly, problems on o-line) Fassel-less offense #22 in NFL (303 ypg)

So if we are going to throw out Mooch's career in Detroit (15-28) then why not throw out Fassel's time in Baltimore? After all, when was the last time Baltimore had a good offense (a comparable statement to when was the last time Detroit won)? To hold the one against Fassel while absolving Mariucchi of the other seems hypocritical.

For the record, I would still prefer Schwartz (apparently not going to happen) or Meeks. And I do know that coaches with prior experience tend to be more successful, so perhaps my own desires are irrational as well.[/quote]


good research. I think as skins fans we like surprises. Fassel is just a boring pick. We liked the Spurrier pick becasue it was flashy and the sky was the limit. We learned that lesson the hard way. Mabye Fassel is the same pick becasue we already have a team in place to win now, not in five years, so he wants an experienced coach to get a trophy, not turn a program around

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Giantone;414477]As of 4:15 NFL Live's John Clayton says that Fassel will be the next head coach of the Skins.[/quote]

If thats the case (as much as i don't like JF) let's get this thing over with. I'm tired of talking about it and being P***** at the way this thing has been handled. I'm ready to be a fan again.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=rypper11;414318]It's because Mooch plays BacciBall (jk).

There really isn't much. If you stand back and look at both they each have pros and cons. The difference lies in when they turned up as potential replacements for Gibbs. At first, we all assumed it would be GW. Then Fassell entered the picture and he was seen as the bad guy who was keeping GW from becoming coach. Now, Mooch is the anti-Fassel.
Seems dumb, I know, but it goes to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Personally, I think Fassel is tainted by Baltimore and I'd rather not have another former NFC East foe coaching the Skins (Norv?).[/QUOTE]

Solid post. I can't believe you're the same person who started the "Are We the Lions" thread

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I harbor no hate toward Fassel or any other prospective candidate for HC, and as I've stated before I will continue to support the team and the coach regardless of the selection.

However, I am biased towards hiring rival coaches, we all remember what happened the last time we went that route. The memory of Fassel is still fresh in my mind of being on the Giants sideline trying to beat the Redskins anyway he knew how. His last year with the G-Men is the one that sticks out in my mind because it was plain to see he had completely lost that team.

I have never been in favor of continuing to hire coaches that have been fired repeatedly from other teams. Welcome to the real world....When you or I get fired from a job, sometimes it becomes difficult for us to get another. NFL coaches just seem to get hired to get fired. If you've proven on more than one ocasion, with more than one team that you can't get the job done, then I have reservations.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

At the time it seemed the Skins were hiring Fassel and flushing away the stable Gibbs coaching structure....it was really a Williams vs. outsider deal....and the outsider was Fassel.....I think if it was Mooch at the time the reaction would have been strong too because it included ditching Williams and Saunders and starting over.

The outrage was about dissing Gibbs, stability, common sense and patience.
None of us thought GW was stellar but stability counts for a couple wins a year.

Now that what is done is done, and we have to start all over, especially on offense....it comes down to who is the best coach...and that is a close call.
There aint nobody like Gibbs out there.....other coaches out there with playoff experience includes Shottenheimer and these 2.

People dont like Giants, Eagles and Cowboys....can you blame them?
Remember Turner?

The options aren't that great...thats why so many wanted the heir apparant to get the gig.

Lets ask this question....which coach would you be more afraid of in the playoffs....
Mooch or Fassel?

I say flip a coin....but Mooch is way more likeable and would represent a change in offensive philosophy that could benefit Campbell the most.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;414315]Just curious why people are so strongly against bringing in Fassel, yet are pro Mariucci. Just wondering what the big difference is? Is it just because Mooch is on TV and is a likable guy?[/QUOTE]

I don't like the idea that it was agreed that his team quit on him. At the end of his tenure, his team was undisciplined and disorganized. They brought in a "football guy" in Coughlin and he turned the franchise around in a few years.

So we are saying we want the guy who couldn't get it done in New York to come down to Washington? Do we want to relive the Spurrier years?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Drift Reality;414728]I don't like the idea that it was agreed that his team quit on him. At the end of his tenure, his team was undisciplined and disorganized. They brought in a "football guy" in Coughlin and he turned the franchise around in a few years.

So we are saying we want the guy who couldn't get it done in New York to come down to Washington? Do we want to relive the Spurrier years?[/quote]

If you replace "Coughlin" with "Marinelli" then you are talking about Steve Mariucci. Just saying ...

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;414750]If you replace "Coughlin" with "Marinelli" then you are talking about Steve Mariucci. Just saying ...[/quote]
Marinelli hasn't fixed the Lions yet, especially after how they ended last season. Most likely they're going to be pretty crappy next year.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;414341]I'm confused myself. On paper both guys are pretty similar, yet as of right now Mariucci has a 70% approval in our poll.

What is the big difference maker between the two?

It's gotta be because Mooch is on TV.[/QUOTE]

I think people hate simply because he coached the Giants. Our rivalries run deep in the NFC East, and I don't blame anyone for the hate.

No Jimmie Johnson or Jimmy Fassel will ever be truly considering untainted if they ever wear the burgundy and gold!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Fassil's body language is too negative, and I remember that the players were not listening to him his last year. He also had a pathetic superbowl appearance. He would be a disaster. It is that plain and simple.

Check out the bio of Steve Spagnuolo! This guy has coached every part of the defense, and won everywhere. The Eagles were much better with him, and now he has made the Giants great. We need to get this guy, because it will help us, and hurt the Giant. Double Bonus!

giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=10

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

:doh:

Why does everyone seem to think that past success (or failure) will translate the same with TOTALLY different personnel, political climate and fan base?!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;414483]good research. I think as skins fans we like surprises. Fassel is just a boring pick. We liked the Spurrier pick becasue it was flashy and the sky was the limit. We learned that lesson the hard way. Mabye Fassel is the same pick becasue we already have a team in place to win now, not in five years, so he wants an experienced coach to get a trophy, not turn a program around[/quote]

Nice observatioon S&C.
Soooo, perhaps the Dan, in boring us to death with the non-flashy pick is indeed making the intelligent pick to catapult us to the SB????????
Take a breath Neg fans....time will tell

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;414776]:doh:

Why does everyone seem to think that past success (or failure) will translate the same with TOTALLY different personnel, political climate and fan base?![/QUOTE]

I think in large, a coach is responsible for the personnel and political climate. Those are things that he and the general manager (the Boy in this case) must manage.

Sure, there are definitely cases where a different environment can spawn radically different results (see Belichick) - but I think one question you always have to ask, is did the team quit on the coach, and why?

Fassel's team quit on him, plain and simple. He didn't have any sense of discipline nor did he create a sense of accountability in his team (both are things I believe Williams would have done with the Redskins).

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Let's consider the team that quit on Fassel. For years now the Giants roster has been full of prima donnas more interested in their celebrity and their egos (Tiki). Their locker room has always been on the verge of revolt.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;414811]Let's consider the team that quit on Fassel. For years now the Giants roster has been full of prima donnas more interested in their celebrity and their egos (Tiki). Their locker room has always been on the verge of revolt.[/QUOTE]
Good point.. They were ready to revolt and run Coughlin out of town..

BTW, in Michael Strahan's book he tells the story of after Fassel told the team he was going to be fired and was still going to coach the rest of the season the team played it's heart out for him. He said things go one way or the other, either the team mails it in or they play hard out of respect for the coach. They chose the latter because of the respect they had for him.

In addition, at their last team meeting the players presented him with a video of the greatest moments in his coaching career there with personal thank yous/goodbye's on the video. At the end of the video there wasn't a dry eye in the house. That doesn't sound like a team that quit on him to me.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Yeah I think the reports of the team quitting on him are overblown. And to those who think he didn't provide enough leadership or accountability, his playoff promise that lead to a Super Bowl run basically flys in the face of that notion.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

I think the playoff guarantee is actually a mark against Fassel. When you have to make a spectacle of yourself in a press conference in order to capture the attention of your team, something is amiss.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=70Chip;414820]I think the playoff guarantee is actually a mark against Fassel. When you have to make a spectacle of yourself in a press conference in order to capture the attention of your team, something is amiss.[/quote]

You can't argue with the results.

The guarantee helped take the pressure off the players and it also instilled confidence in them.

I guess you can twist it anyway you want, but that promise is generally regarded as a positive thing.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Just to be clear, I don't have anything against Jim Fassel. I also don't have anything against Wayne Fontes, Art Shell, or Rich Kotite. I think those who support Fassel should explain why he makes sense, rather than demanding that opponents explain why he doesn't.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=70Chip;414824]Just to be clear, I don't have anything against Jim Fassel. I also don't have anything against Wayne Fontes, Art Shell, or Rich Kotite. I think those who support Fassel should explain why he makes sense, rather than demanding that opponents explain why he doesn't.[/quote]

Hey I'm not pro Fassel either. I'm on the fence with him. I just found it curious that people are so against him, yet are so in favor of Mooch when there isn't really a huge difference between the two.

Going by the feedback here, it looks like it's because he was a rival coach, and second because Mooch is just a more personable guy that people can relate to.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Why were so many people eager to give Williams another chance to succeed as a head coach, but not so much with Fassell? Is it simply because Williams was in-house?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;414870]Why were so many people eager to give Williams another chance to succeed as a head coach, but not so much with Fassell? Is it simply because Williams was in-house?[/quote]

I wanted to keep Williams because I like having GOOD defenses. Prior to his arrival there were a lot of years with BAD defenses. I guess in a way, he was a victim of his own success. If the powers that be were a little more emotionally connected to the George Edwards led defense of 2003 in all its ineptitude, they might have been a little more hesitant to send Coach Williams on his way.

So, that would distinguish him from Fassel.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;414877]I wanted to keep Williams because I like having GOOD defenses. Prior to his arrival there were a lot of years with BAD defenses. I guess in a way, he was a victim of his own success. If the powers that be were a little more emotionally connected to the George Edwards led defense of 2003 in all its ineptitude, they might have been a little more hesitant to send Coach Williams on his way.

So, that would distinguish him from Fassel.[/QUOTE]

Didn't Marvin Lewis have some good defenses too?!

Arrington had like 12 sacks one year they played him down in the three point stance. I'm wondering how much our offense will change with Zorn, he's a great coach.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

As has already been mentioned several times, the writing was on the wall from the outset. Not a word from Joe as to how the organization would proceed upon his departure. No endorsement for GW. Big RED flag (although I did not notice). In retrospect, OBVIOUSLY there was a problem between GW, and DS, or whoever. Not to be........as this happens all the time and his protege is in house,and on staff.
At this point in time, DS seems to be taking his time to make the best decision possible. I have no problem with any of that.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Post is reporting Williams has interviews now? Of course he does, let it go!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;414315]Just curious why people are so strongly against bringing in Fassel, yet are pro Mariucci. Just wondering what the big difference is? Is it just because Mooch is on TV and is a likable guy?[/quote]

I think the hate comes from the disappointment of it not being GW. If we don't get GW as HC, then I think anyone isn't good enough in the fans eyes.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

There are some good answers here. I'll agree w/Rypper11 as the best one; the anti-fassel sentiment was more pro GW than anything. Now that we know GW is out, I wonder what the reaction would be to Fassel if his name just surfaced like Mooch's did.

I like Mooch & think he's a good fit, but after this thread it's made me think a bit more. Maybe Mooch is just the flashier candidate & there isn't much difference between the two in terms of overall ability.

Someone jokingly said something earlier about his bitter beer face. In all serious, looks might have a lot to do w/it. I know a lot of us would never consciously be aware of that, but it's a factor just as it is in running for office. Ugly candidates start w/a disadvantage.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;414889]There are some good answers here. I'll agree w/Rypper11 as the best one; the anti-fassel sentiment was more pro GW than anything. Now that we know GW is out, I wonder what the reaction would be to Fassel if his name just surfaced like Mooch's did.

I like Mooch & think he's a good fit, but after this thread it's made me think a bit more. Maybe Mooch is just the flashier candidate & there isn't much difference between the two in terms of overall ability.

Someone jokingly said something earlier about his bitter beer face. In all serious, looks might have a lot to do w/it. I know a lot of us would never consciously be aware of that, but it's a factor just as it is in running for office. Ugly candidates start w/a disadvantage.[/QUOTE]

Then how the hell did Norv Turner EVER get a job?

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=QBall;414891]Then how the hell did Norv Turner EVER get a job?[/quote]

LOL, I was thinking that maybe fassel reminded people too much of him, w/the pock face, O coordinator & coming from a division rival.

There must've been some ugly dudes interviewing when Norv got his job. I think overall Mooch is just more presentable & as Matty said he's on tv so we get a chance to see that. He's sharp & polished publicly, whether that means he's the better coach or not I don't know. I think he's percieved as more the alpha male than Fassel could ever be.

Those same qualities are what I fear about Mooch, that maybe he's all window dressing but doesn't do enough. Someone said his style was to get in & out of practice & not put in much extra. While there's no perfect way to prepare, I believe coaches like Gibbs spend so much extra time w/game plans because they're driven that much to figuring out every detail they can.

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[quote=killromo;414361]Are you a psychologist? That makes perfect sense to me. But I never liked Fassel period. I think it's his face, anybody remember the bitter beer face commercials? Thats what i think of when i think of fassel, oh yeah and losing too. Way to get fired by the ravens fassel...the ravens?!?[/quote]

bitter beer face w/a hint of Norvelle Turner!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;414901]LOL, I was thinking that maybe fassel reminded people too much of him, w/the pock face, O coordinator & coming from a division rival.

There must've been some ugly dudes interviewing when Norv got his job. I think overall Mooch is just more presentable & as Matty said he's on tv so we get a chance to see that. He's sharp & polished publicly, whether that means he's the better coach or not I don't know. I think he's percieved as more the alpha male than Fassel could ever be.

Those same qualities are what I fear about Mooch, that maybe he's all window dressing but doesn't do enough. Someone said his style was to get in & out of practice & not put in much extra. While there's no perfect way to prepare, I believe coaches like Gibbs spend so much extra time w/game plans because they're driven that much to figuring out every detail they can.[/QUOTE]

Fassel is Tom Cruise compared with Norv!

Re: Why the hate towards Fassel?
 

Tell me this why should Jim Fassel be the new head coach of the Redskins?

He hasn't proven really nothing in his career. One Super Bowl in which he lost and didn't coach at all last year. Has he proven himself as a solid NFL coach enough to come in and get use back to the Super Bowl and win, I don't think so?