Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=GTripp0012;358800]The way Moss has been playing this year though, its hard to see us taking a step backwards on offense because he's out.

I always figured that the offense would get a lot better once he picked it up, but it looks like this could be a very lackluster year for Moss. With Cooley and Randle El out there, we should be alright, but Campbell will struggle this year if he can't find guys open ever.[/quote]

He's still our homerun hitter and has had catches of 48 yards or more in two of the three games so far. Regardless of his struggles so far he's still on a 1000 yard pace too.

Take him away and all of a sudden teams can put their #1 corner on Randle El. And perhaps the bigger question is who steps in and scares anyone at the #2? Caldwell? Lloyd? Thrash?

Yikes.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;358802]I think that the right side of the line has played very well with the situation they are in and will get better as he year goes on. I'm not real concerned with Moss and Portis as it seem that both will be OK and the skins site said that Moss could be going in practice on Wednesday. I feel the key to the game is JC finding the open WR and stop hitting short stuff as he did against the Gmen.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with your line playing very well comment.
Our line is in the crappiest condition it has been in for years...yes ....years...
If they dont get their act together really soon, we will continue to lose winnable games.

What happens to a running team when the line goes down?....hmm.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

no portis or moss? damn thats bad news...i still think we have this game though

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=skinsnut;358807]I disagree with your line playing very well comment.
Our line is in the crappiest condition it has been in for years...yes ....years...
If they dont get their act together really soon, we will continue to lose winnable games.

What happens to a running team when the line goes down?....hmm.[/quote]
We are averaging around 134 yards a game and 4 yards per carry which ranks us 10th in the NFL and have only given up 5 sacks so its not all that bad. Yes we let the Gmen stuff the run in the 2nd half but if JC would have hit some of those wide open WR's maybe the running game could have been more effective in the second half.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=Mattyk72;358738]Randle El can get deep, but obviously losing Moss would hurt since he's one of the best deep threats in the game today. Also, it would be nice if we could get Cooley more involved with the passing game and less involved with blocking.[/quote]

Glad someone said it, because I was going to if not. With the injuries to the O-line Cooley is being kept in more to block, and consequently his numbers will decline.

Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast when your offensive line takes hits with the injury bug.

So if Moss dos not play, you might as well say that 2 weapons are neutralized, Moss due to injury and Cooley beacause now he has not our running routes, he is protecting Campbell.

To win this game the Redskins have to have a very effective running attack that consumes the clock and keeps the Lions offense off the field.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Well, this is sort of blasphemous I suppose, but I agree with you sandtrap. And I think ChiefX alluded to this as well. The key is not going to be can we beat Detroit in a shootout, it's going to be can we control the clock and prevent the Lions from engaging us in a shootout.

That said, I have a feeling the Redskins will come out the gate with a couple of deep plays and then settle things down

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

No Moss means Randle El becomes non-existant. Randle El's big plays this season have come because he is playing opposite of Moss. Without Santana, you have Caldwell, Thrash or McCardell (or perhaps Cooley at the slot) playing, none of which are speedsters like Moss is.

No Portis means more carries for Mike Sellars. While Betts will take a bulk of the carries, you will see more Sellars in on short yardage situations.

While both are important, the Skins have a better chance without Portis than without Moss.

Can the Skins win? Absolutely. The defense is finally going on all cylinders, and will give Kitna and their Receivers fits. As Smootsmack et al. said before me, the key for the Skins offense will be to control the clock, and grind the ball with Betts, Cartwright and Sellars.

If Kevin Jones is finally 100%, he could be the factor. Give the Lions another dimension to their offense.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;358821]Glad someone said it, because I was going to if not. With the injuries to the O-line Cooley is being kept in more to block, and consequently his numbers will decline.

Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast when your offensive line takes hits with the injury bug.

So if Moss dos not play, you might as well say that 2 weapons are neutralized, Moss due to injury and Cooley beacause now he has not our running routes, he is protecting Campbell.

To win this game the Redskins have to have a very effective running attack that consumes the clock and keeps the Lions offense off the field.[/quote]

Exactly.

Everyone wants the Skins to put up the ball 50 times "open it up", when that has never been the Redskins style of winning football games.

Run the ball effectively, chew up some clock, take some shots down the field = W

Oh yeah, and the defense needs to do it's part...

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;358834]Exactly.

Everyone wants the Skins to put up the ball 50 times "open it up", when that has never been the Redskins style of winning football games.

Run the ball effectively, chew up some clock, take some shots down the field = W

Oh yeah, and the defense needs to do it's part...[/quote]

don't you have to win consistently to have a "style" of winning? Right now, with the injuries, I'm not sure what you can say this team's strength's really are

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Judging by Gibbs v 2.0, this game will likely resemble the Cleveland and Cinci games from 2004, the Oakland game from 2005, and the Tennessee game from 2006.

Games that we should win easily but won't, for whatever reason. If we don't win this one, season's pretty much done.

I count 2 losses to Dallas, 1 more to the Giants up in the Meadowlands, 1 to New England, 1 to Greenbay. That's 5, and adding the home loss to NYG and Lions will make it 7, which will cause us to rely on late season math to have any hope of making the post-season.

Of course, predictions mean nothing and that's why the play the games.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

I don't think we beat the Lions without Moss and Portis.. We need to score 24-28 to beat Detroit and without our 2 most explosive offensive weapons, that's not going to happen. Unless the defense plays lights out and Carlos Rogers realizes how to cover/tackle a WR, we could be in for a long afternoon...

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

The team has issues that at this time make predicting the outcome of their game virtually impossible.

With the current injury situation,several things have to go right in order for them to be successful. Without Portis, the running game can have some success with Betts depending on the O-line's ability to create running lanes. Betts is the type back that does not fare well in a platoon type situation, he, like most backs needs to run repeatedly to get in a flow for where the holes are going to be. He's more productive when he gets the opportunities like he did last year.

If Moss can't go that will definately be a blow to an already decimated offense. I'm just more than a little concerned with his injury problems, and being such an intrigual part of the offense, not just for now, but as the season continues to progress. Maybe if we can control the tempo with the running game, limiting Detroit's chances, that will enhance our chances at winning. A shoot-out is not in our best interest.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine;358837]Judging by Gibbs v 2.0, this game will likely resemble the Cleveland and Cinci games from 2004, the Oakland game from 2005, and the Tennessee game from 2006.

Games that we should win easily but won't, for whatever reason. If we don't win this one, season's pretty much done.[/QUOTE]

Or it could be like the Lions, 49ers, Vikings games of 2004; the 49ers, Rams, and Cardinals games of 2005; the Texans game of 2006, the Dolphins game of 2007 (as some examples).

Games we should have won...and did

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

I'm convinced the Redskins can win or lose against anyone. The Redskins have the ability to play up or down to the level of competition. The Lions game will be a close game, just like all the Skins games, and a few plays at the end will be the difference between winning and losing. This is Redskins football. The Skins can do nothing the easy way.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Grade 1 knee sprain for Portis per JLaC. Will probably play this weekend per Bubba Tyer.

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

What about Smoot's Hamstring???

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=SmootSmack;358849]Or it could be like the Lions, 49ers, Vikings games of 2004; the 49ers, Rams, and Cardinals games of 2005; the Texans game of 2006, the Dolphins game of 2007 (as some examples).

Games we should have won...and did[/quote]
Hmm, we won the Dolphins game in 07.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

I think Moss will play but if he does not maybe, just maybe it gets BL into the game and gets him involved in our O. Thats a big maybe but for some reason I just have the feeling if we could get BL involved he may emerge out of his shell.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=firstdown;358862]Hmm, we won the Dolphins game in 07.[/quote]

Right, that was his point

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=LaRon + Sean = Hell 4 U;358859]What about Smoot's Hamstring???[/quote]

What about reading the link before your post. It clearly says he is expected to play.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=Mattyk72;358866]Right, that was his point[/quote]
I missed the part we did as we did win.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;358849]Or it could be like the Lions, 49ers, Vikings games of 2004; the 49ers, Rams, and Cardinals games of 2005; the Texans game of 2006, the Dolphins game of 2007 (as some examples).

Games we should have won...and did[/QUOTE]

So Gibbs has an 8-8 record against weak teams...not a very strong case for this weekend's game.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=hurrykaine;358874]So Gibbs has an 8-8 record against weak teams...not a very strong case for this weekend's game.[/quote]

Why so? You think the Lions are a weak team? If so you have no case. Remember they are 3-1.

We will defeat the lions at home.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Took the liberty to get on a Lions forum to see what they are saying about the game. The biggest thing they are talking about is how the Skins have owned the Lions for years, and breaking the losing streak. The things they seem the most concerned about is our defense, Clinton Portis, and JC's poise in the pocket.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;358878]Took the liberty to get on a Lions forum to see what they are saying about the game. [B]The biggest thing they are talking about is how the Skins have owned the Lions for years, and breaking the losing streak.[/B] The things they seem the most concerned about is our defense, Clinton Portis, and JC's poise in the pocket.[/QUOTE]

Yep, allegedly we have beaten them at home 21 times out of 21 meetings. Those kind of streaks scare ME! Streaks are like records, they will be broken. But, lets hope it just becomes "22" after this coming Sunday.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=hurrykaine;358874]So Gibbs has an 8-8 record against weak teams...not a very strong case for this weekend's game.[/quote]8-8? wtf?

If you are going to make up numbers to try to prove a point, it's probably better to reconsider making it in the first place.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

The Lions offense is their strength, so if we can run the ball well and sustain drives, GET TD's, and keep their offense on the sidelines...that's our best chance of winning and I'm sure that's what Gibbs is planning on doing. Lions rank 17th in the NFL against the run and 30th against the pass....they should be able to sustain drives!!!

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

The redskins will beat the lions. The key to this game is how successful the redskins running game will be on offense. On defense, the key will be taking away big passing plays and stopping the run.

Sounds like redskins football.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

No.

...........

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine;358874]So Gibbs has an 8-8 record against weak teams...not a very strong case for this weekend's game.[/QUOTE]

They've also beaten, among other, the Jaguars, Saints, Seahawks, and Eagles when not thought possible.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;358882]8-8? wtf?

If you are going to make up numbers to try to prove a point, it's probably better to reconsider making it in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Smootsmack listed 8 teams he thought we should've beaten and did, and I listed 8 teams I thought we should've beaten and didn't. That's where the 8-8 comes from. 8-8 against lowly teams isn't confidence inspiring as we head into this weekend is my point.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;358875]Why so? You think the Lions are a weak team? If so you have no case. Remember they are 3-1.

We will defeat the lions at home.[/QUOTE]

remember they gave up 56 points a week ago. "Weak" is relative, but yes, I'd consider them weak.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Yes they can. This comes down to the defense. I'm looking for our secondary to step up big time with multiple picks. We can get to Kitna and he will make mistakes on Sunday.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[quote=hurrykaine;358905]remember they gave up 56 points a week ago. "Weak" is relative, but yes, I'd consider them weak.[/quote]

Then they bounced back last week and scored how many points on chicago in the fourth quater to win a big game?

That's still a team that is 3-1, they are in no way by me considered a weak team by ANY stretch. They are very dangerous, and if a team like the lions is taken even lightly they will burn you....time after time!

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Without Portis and Moss this is a very winnable game for the Lions. This could be a bad situation for us. I think we can pull out but it will be a close game. I will be there ;)!

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

well has there been any injury report put out yet?? confirming that portis and/or moss will not play?

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

Moss is out. The Washington Post reporter who follows the skins got this from a team official. Moss could be out beyond the Detroit game. I think Portis will play but sparingly.
That said, we should win this game, and if we don't I think it's a turning pt downward for the team. We need to control the clock through this game and if Betts can get into a rythm running downhill it will happen. Lions are week defensively anyway. I've said before that Thrash in place of Moss isn't too bad a situation. Thrash has good talent getting open and best hands on the team. Caldwell will get work in the game too, and I think he will be a big surprise for us. Anyway, I think we are the superior team by far, and this should be a big win. Defense has to step up, but Smoot should be healthy (and hungry) and I think Landry and Taylor are due for some huge plays.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=MTRedskinsFan;358947]Moss is out. The Washington Post reporter who follows the skins got this from a team official. Moss could be out beyond the Detroit game.[/QUOTE]

Where did you see this?

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;358949]Where did you see this?[/QUOTE]

Hogs.net. I cannot remember the name of the Post reporter. Basically, a blogger emailed that reporter asking if there was an update and then posted the reporter's response on the site. Moss was said to be out possibly beyond the Lions game. I don't think this should be a surprise to anyone. He gets hurt at least a couple times a season and usually heals slowly. But I'm also saying I don't think it should be that big a deal. Time of possession will be huge this Sunday, and w/ Thrash (in for Moss) getting open and consistently catching passes I think we can still have a real effective passing game to set up the run.

Re: Can the redskins beat the lions without portis and moss
 

For those wondering, this is what MTRedskinsfan is referring to (I think)

[quote]I e-mailed Jason La Confora and he personally told me that Moss was out for more than one game and McCardell is being signed due to injury. Here is exactly what he said:

From: "Jason F LaCanfora" <lacanforaj@washpost.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:44:29 -0400
To: "Robert Hunt" <fands57@yahoo.com>

I think santana is going to miss a few games don't see them dumping lloyd till after the season.
Cheers[/quote]

To be clear. This is what JLC [U]thinks[/U] is going to happen. While he may be right, if we went with what he thought all the time then Dre Bly would be a Redskin.

Anyway, last I've heard Moss is officially day-to-day...but then again aren't we all.