Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[quote=SmootSmack;325762]What about when Hamlin called out his crew earlier this year because he was frustrated he hadn't won? Turned out he was probably right but no one gave him shit for that. If Stewart did it, everyone would be pissing all over him.

Now, one more time. I'll put in bullet point format so it's easier to follow

-Tony Stewart was wrong for what he said on Sunday

-Tony Stewart knows that a bump can be good, very good. But a bump on a corner inevitably leads to a wreck.

-Tony Stewart is most probably at fault for the crash on Sunday. I'll cede that. I still think Hamlin may have slowed up a bit but whatever.

-I don't have any "links" to quote for you. All I'm saying is I interact with a lot of these guys on a regular basis. I see how they operate. I know that to decide what their relationship is based on yesterday is inaccurate

-To summarize: Stewart-shut up because people already hate you; Stewart and Hamlin-keep doing what you do when the cameras aren't rolling

-This is why I don't like to mix work with TheWarpath[/quote]

That's what makes the world go round.......opinions are like ass holes.

Thanks for sharing yours. Got me thinking for a sec, where the hell is the Sheriff Gonna Getcha? Last time I spoke to him he was I believe moving and getting ready for some big bar testing?

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

That's awesome man, dream job, good for you. Ive been around, I try not to post anything too controversial, trying to lay low and bite my tongue which is difficult when ur 35, but I just don't have the energy anymore.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;325762]

-Tony Stewart was wrong for what he said on Sunday

-Tony Stewart knows that a bump can be good, very good. But a bump on a corner inevitably leads to a wreck.

-Tony Stewart is most probably at fault for the crash on Sunday. I'll cede that. I still think Hamlin may have slowed up a bit but whatever.

-To summarize: Stewart-shut up because people already hate you; Stewart and Hamlin-keep doing what you do when the cameras aren't rolling[/QUOTE]

It's good you can see that it was 100% his fault. In life, if you hit someone from behind, 10 times out of 10, it's your fault. No exception today. Stewart had 3 options, 1- slow down, 2- go around him, 3- ram him and wreck him. He chose #3. It was classless to blame hamlin, and call out his teammate like that, so he added insult to injury. There really isn't much more you can say to summarize, that says it all.

I just wanted you to know, SS, that I'm sure he is a nice guy, I never made a claim that he wasn't (not that you inferred I did)...I just can't stand his driving skills or lack there of. Like I said before, there is a difference between aggressive and wreckless, and he's wreckless. He has the opportunity to be a great driver. He has a great team, and his car is always ready for a victory, he needs to exhibit some patience and stop thinking he is the only car on the track. Some day he is going to kill someone then someone will finally stand up and say he needs to be stopped.
That's just my 2 cents I guess.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

I suspect that more people are upset by his comments than his actions. But anyhow, on to Chicago

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;325775]I suspect that more people are upset by his comments than his actions. But anyhow, on to Chicago[/QUOTE]

That's true...but since he didn't wreck my guy, or my team, I am only concerned with his poor driving on the track cause the next time it could be Gordon.

I know this is off the subject, but maybe you know the answer. How come Jeff's last name is Gordon, and his parents last name is like Bickman or something like that?

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

You're probably thinking of his step-dad, John Bickford. Not his biological dad but basically raised him from what I know.

Honestly, Gordon and Junior are two guys I don't really know, so I won't make unsubstantiated comments about either of them. I've heard mixed reviews of both.

So far the most genuine and universally liked guy I've encountered has been Jeff Burton

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;325770]That's awesome man, dream job, good for you. Ive been around, I try not to post anything too controversial, trying to lay low and bite my tongue which is difficult when ur 35, but I just don't have the energy anymore.[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's cool. Feels like there's a target on my back a lot. But, it comes with the territory.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;325750]lol
Stewart is NO mentor to Hamlin. Never has and is not to this day. They are team mates but Stewart has his head up his ass too far to see anyone else but excuses.

That's a joke bro.
Denny needed "friends" like Jr. amd Edwards in times when Stewart was ignoring Denny. I've had my eye on this driver the whole time. StewRAT is NO mentor to Denny Hamlin. You have no source or facts to back that up so just quit it.

StewRAT is a 1 man Team who cares about no one other then the #20 car...period. Unless you have sources or facts and footage or video to prove yer point I could make up something too.

StewRAT was a jerk in the past, he was jerk during and after the race the other day and will be a jerk tomorrow and next week during the race too.

He's a PUD

peace and quit pulling my leg...the right 1 comes off.
lol[/QUOTE]

SBF you really need to try and understand a racers mentality a little better. During a race if team mates can help each other and not sacrifice there own chances of wining then by all means they do it. But if they both feel like they have a good car and a chance to win. Then they race each other as hard as they would any other driver. Stewart did not wreck Denny on purpose while I agree it might have been his fault. By no means would I say that it was any different then a lot of other wrecks you see in NASCAR ever weekend. Listen to what Gibbs had to say. "It's just one of those unfortunate things," Gibbs said. "Both guys are going as hard as they can and I think both these guys are real competitive. I think they are good teammates and I think it is just something that happened.”

"I am sure Denny feels bad it got away from him there. I am not sure what happened, but I think it's a shame because we had two good cars. ... Sometimes guys get upset, which is understandable.”

Did you read that? He said the car got away from Hamlin. This would mean Hamlin was partially to blame. Was Tony supposed to stop? Maybe Denny should have gotten out of the way? When you’re racing hard shit happens.
Tony Stewart is one of the best drivers in all of motor sports and I’m sure anyone in the business would agree. On the track he can be very aggressive which is one of the reasons he is so good. But off the track he goes out of his way to help other drivers and people in general. I have seen this first hand with my girlfriend’s nephew. Tony not only gave him the break he needed to launch his racing career. He mentored him and has been a good friend to his whole family. I had a chance to meet Tony Stewart last thanksgiving at a midget car race called turkey night. He was a really nice guy He signed my Redskins hat and talked to all of us for a while before the race. But after the race I must say he was pissed because some kid had wrecked him and security in the pits was bad so we just stayed back and left him alone.lol
The guy is so competitive that even while racing midgets which really mean nothing to him career wise he wants to win. And it’s that passion for wining that makes him the champion that he is.
Tony (though He’s become much better) needs to learn to calm down before he shoots his mouth of in front of the media. But all the racers talk trash after a race. Most just do it in the garage, while Tony will do it in front of everyone.
But all in all Stewart is a good team mate to Hamlin & Yeley. And if he wasn’t Gibbs would have already done something about it long ago.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;325781]You're probably thinking of his step-dad, John Bickford. Not his biological dad but basically raised him from what I know.

Honestly, Gordon and Junior are two guys I don't really know, so I won't make unsubstantiated comments about either of them. I've heard mixed reviews of both.

So far the most genuine and universally liked guy I've encountered has been Jeff Burton[/QUOTE]


Did you watch 24x24? It was very interesting to hear people speak so highly of Jeff Gordon. Seems like a very down to earth funloving guy.
I don't know any drivers personally, so I really don't know who is naughty and who is nice. I have heard that Burton was a nice guy before, and honestly, I make my opinion about a person through his performance on the track, not about his actually personality. I will never KNOW these people, so my opinions are stictly due to talent. I dislike only 2 people, Stewart and Montoya. I dislike them as people, but them as NASCAR drivers. I really want to like JGR but can't get past Stewart. I'm thrilled that Lil E is coming to Hendrick!

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

denny totally wrecked stewart

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=dallass-blows 2;326278]denny totally wrecked stewart[/QUOTE]

JFK killed Honest Abe and Godzilla sank the Titanic too.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;326341]JFK killed Honest Abe and Godzilla sank the Titanic too.[/QUOTE]

Are there ever two sides of a story for you SBF? Just wondering.;)

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44;326381]Are there ever two sides of a story for you SBF? Just wondering.;)[/QUOTE]


There is no other side to this story. It was Stewart being wreckless plain and simple. If he didn't race for JGR, his head would be on a platter by everyone here.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326402]There is no other side to this story. It was Stewart being wreckless plain and simple. If he didn't race for JGR, his head would be on a platter by everyone here.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
J Gibbs my not agree with you ethier.
QUOTE, I am sure Denny feels bad it got away from him there. I am not sure what happened, but I think it's a shame because we had two good cars. ... Sometimes guys get upset, which is understandable.”

Like I said before, Tony messed up. But Denny has to take some of the blame as well.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[quote=Riggo44;326411]I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
J Gibbs my not agree with you ethier.
QUOTE, I am sure Denny feels bad it got away from him there. I am not sure what happened, but I think it's a shame because we had two good cars. ... Sometimes guys get upset, which is understandable.”[/quote]

Would you really expect Joe to say anything other?

It sure would be nice to read his mind....? I bet he was thinging the same way I was.......that damn Tony is a DUMB ASS, AND I DON'T THINK THE FOOL WILL EVER LEARN TO JUST SHUTUP!

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;326413]Would you really expect Joe to say anything other?

It sure would be nice to read his mind....? I bet he was thinging the same way I was.......that damn Tony is a DUMB ASS, AND I DON'T THINK THE FOOL WILL EVER LEARN TO JUST SHUTUP![/QUOTE]

Are you mad a Tony for what he said? Which I agree was pretty dumb. Or what happened on the track? I'm just talking about what happened on the track. Not the stupid comments Stewart made after the wreck.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44;326411]I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
J Gibbs my not agree with you ethier.
QUOTE, I am sure Denny feels bad it got away from him there. I am not sure what happened, but I think it's a shame because we had two good cars. ... Sometimes guys get upset, which is understandable.”

Like I said before, Tony messed up. But Denny has to take some of the blame as well.[/QUOTE]


Have you ever known Gibbs to not be diplomatic?
I would wager behind closed doors gibbs got pissed that Tony drove so wreckless. How can you blame a guy that got hit from behind. Watch the video again, it's not like Hamlin slammed on the breaks...if he did I would see you point. Stewart kept closing on him...closing on him...closing on him. He had more than ample time to pass him, or slow up...but he rammed him. I'm sorry buddy, but this is black and white evidence on the tv. It's not even 1% Hamlin's fault. It's 100% Stewart's fault. Even in the real world, if you hit someone from behind, it's YOUR FAULT...no questions asked.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

OK, I have a NASCAR question, but don't want to start an entirely new thread for it.
I don't get the connection between Busch series and Nextel Cup series. I always thought of it as "Minor and Major" league. (Nextel being the major league) So how is it the Nextel guys can drive in the Busch series? They seem to pick and choose, and on any given event, there can be up to half of the Busch series chalk full of Nextel drivers?
Does anyone know how this works?

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;326341]JFK killed Honest Abe and Godzilla sank the Titanic too.[/QUOTE]

look i dont watch a lot of racing. hardly any actually but i saw the highlights of this race and Denny totally slowed down in front of stewart. not even close to being stewarts fault at all!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZVpLMEp6IE]YouTube - 2007 Pepsi 400: Hamlin/Stewart Crash[/url]

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=dallass-blows 2;326444]look i dont watch a lot of racing. hardly any actually but i saw the highlights of this race and Denny totally slowed down in front of stewart. not even close to being stewarts fault at all!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZVpLMEp6IE]YouTube - 2007 Pepsi 400: Hamlin/Stewart Crash[/url][/QUOTE]

You better watch it, SBF will go crazy over that statement... He doesn't like to admit that there are 2 sides to every story...

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326438]OK, I have a NASCAR question, but don't want to start an entirely new thread for it.
I don't get the connection between Busch series and Nextel Cup series. I always thought of it as "Minor and Major" league. (Nextel being the major league) So how is it the Nextel guys can drive in the Busch series? They seem to pick and choose, and on any given event, there can be up to half of the Busch series chalk full of Nextel drivers?
Does anyone know how this works?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the two top series in NASCAR are the NASCAR Nextel Cup (Sprint Cup effective Jan. 1, '08) and the NASCAR Busch Series (new name TBD). The NASCAR Busch Series, which we'll call NBS for the rest of this post, was orginally created some fifty years ago to focus primarily on the short tracks and serve as a "training ground" for up and coming drivers. Over time though, more superspeedways became part of the NBS circuit.

NBS is also used as a training ground for NASCAR itself, to test out new technologies and rules for example.

So, back to the original question, a lot of Cup drivers use the NASCAR Busch Series races to a) test out a track before the Cup race the next day, b) appease a sponsor who might be based in the area for example, c) test out the car (though now the difference between Busch and Cup cars is much more pronounced)

Now it's a catch-22 because on the one hand you want to develop young drivers but on the other hand ticket sales and ratings are consideraby impacted by Cup drivers participating in these races.

It's a constant source of discussion in meetings I am in as to what to do about it.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326465]Yeah, the two top series in NASCAR are the NASCAR Nextel Cup (Sprint Cup effective Jan. 1, '08) and the NASCAR Busch Series (new name TBD). The NASCAR Busch Series, which we'll call NBS for the rest of this post, was orginally created some fifty years ago to focus primarily on the short tracks and serve as a "training ground" for up and coming drivers. Over time though, more superspeedways became part of the NBS circuit.

NBS is also used as a training ground for NASCAR itself, to test out new technologies and rules for example.

So, back to the original question, a lot of Cup drivers use the NASCAR Busch Series races to a) test out a track before the Cup race the next day, b) appease a sponsor who might be based in the area for example, c) test out the car (though now the difference between Busch and Cup cars is much more pronounced)

Now it's a catch-22 because on the one hand you want to develop young drivers but on the other hand ticket sales and ratings are consideraby impacted by Cup drivers participating in these races.

It's a constant source of discussion in meetings I am in as to what to do about it.[/QUOTE]

Wow...that's a great answer! Now if we can only get you away from being a Stewart fan! ;)
See, I did understand it (sort of), it just didn't make sense...sure enough, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense other than for $$$$

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326421]Have you ever known Gibbs to not be diplomatic?
I would wager behind closed doors gibbs got pissed that Tony drove so wreckless. How can you blame a guy that got hit from behind. Watch the video again, it's not like Hamlin slammed on the breaks...if he did I would see you point. Stewart kept closing on him...closing on him...closing on him. He had more than ample time to pass him, or slow up...but he rammed him. I'm sorry buddy, but this is black and white evidence on the tv. It's not even 1% Hamlin's fault. It's 100% Stewart's fault. Even in the real world, if you hit someone from behind, it's YOUR FAULT...no questions asked.[/QUOTE]

I asked NASCAR and some guys from JGR about it this morning and basically was told that they know when "Tony is just being Tony."

They said TS was emotional and frustrated and that they would just move on. Everyone in that garage knows there was no malicious intent. Tony and Denny will work it out on their own (if they haven't already) and things will be fine

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=dallass-blows 2;326444]look i dont watch a lot of racing. hardly any actually but i saw the highlights of this race and Denny totally slowed down in front of stewart. not even close to being stewarts fault at all!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZVpLMEp6IE]YouTube - 2007 Pepsi 400: Hamlin/Stewart Crash[/url][/QUOTE]

HAHAHA...so you were watching the southpark episodes instead of that little youtube section then? You must have, because it clearly shows Stewart getting closer and closer and closer and closer to hamlin, and instead of slowing down or passing...he rammed him. 110% Stewarts fault...anyone who says otherwise is clearly a Stewart fan...open and shut case here boys.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326476]HAHAHA...so you were watching the southpark episodes instead of that little youtube section then? You must have, because it clearly shows Stewart getting closer and closer and closer and closer to hamlin, and instead of slowing down or passing...he rammed him. 110% Stewarts fault...anyone who says otherwise is clearly a Stewart fan...open and shut case here boys.[/QUOTE]

Now I'm not saying this is the case here. But as a NASCAR fun you should know that sometimes a bump is a good thing. Just keep that in mind when watching race's in general

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326474]I asked NASCAR and some guys from JGR about it this morning and basically was told that they know when "Tony is just being Tony."

They said TS was emotional and frustrated and that they would just move on. Everyone in that garage knows there was no malicious intent. Tony and Denny will work it out on their own (if they haven't already) and things will be fine[/QUOTE]

Hell, I don't think there was malicious intent...just Stewart not paying attention, or not being talented enough to see what was in front of him and react to it (which he had more than ample amount of time to do).
It's just a shame that someone as classless as Stewart works for someone with as much class as Gibbs.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326479]Now I'm not saying this is the case here. But as a NASCAR fun you should know that sometimes a bump is a good thing. Just keep that in mind when watching race's in general[/QUOTE]


I'll give you that. But it was a very, very hard bump, and it was at the apex of the corner. Even 10 year old dirt track drivers know not to do that. Even if that was on a straight away it would have still not been good.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326480]Hell, I don't think there was malicious intent...just Stewart not paying attention, or not being talented enough to see what was in front of him and react to it (which he had more than ample amount of time to do).
It's just a shame that someone as classless as Stewart works for someone with as much class as Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

Don't confuse being emotional after a wreck with being classless.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326483]Don't confuse being emotional after a wreck with being classless.[/QUOTE]

I think they are one in the same when it's your own teammate. He should have taken the high road on the track and off of it.
If (let's say) Randel El was to go on TV and publicly say Campbell sucked, we'd all call for his head. But for some reason, Stewart calls out his teammate and not much has been said about it.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326532]I think they are one in the same when it's your own teammate. He should have taken the high road on the track and off of it.
If (let's say) Randel El was to go on TV and publicly say Campbell sucked, we'd all call for his head. But for some reason, Stewart calls out his teammate and not much has been said about it.[/QUOTE]

Not much has been said about it? Everyone is pissing all over him.

All I can tell you is Stewart is a great guy 95% of the time. Maybe next time I'll take a camera and a mic so you can hear some of the things guys like Hamlin say when the cameras not rolling.

Anyway, I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement on this. But that's cool. Debate is healthy

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326543]Not much has been said about it? Everyone is pissing all over him. [/quote]

I wasn't referring to here.

[quote]All I can tell you is Stewart is a great guy 95% of the time. Maybe next time I'll take a camera and a mic so you can hear some of the things guys like Hamlin say when the cameras not rolling.[/quote]

I honestly believe you. Like I said, it's not about him the person. Even great guys skrew up. You know what's funny...if it was me, I wouldn't have called out my teammate first of all, but if I did, I would publicly apologize for calling him out AND wrecking him, even if I didn't believe it, cause that's what teammates do! They cover each other.

[quote]Anyway, I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement on this. But that's cool. Debate is healthy[/QUOTE]

You're right. I think he's wreckless, and you don't. Fundamental differences...but it's fun none the less! :D

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

You guys see what Jsarno and I are doing here? We're arguing our cases like adults. Granted it's not the most in-depth argument but we're doing it like grown people.

There's no name calling. No bitching and crying. Pretty wild isn't it?

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326558]You guys see what Jsarno and I are doing here? We're arguing our cases like adults. Granted it's not the most in-depth argument but we're doing it like grown people.

There's no name calling. No bitching and crying. Pretty wild isn't it?[/QUOTE]

I guess you just need a bunch more members like me :D

Maybe I should be a mod. hmmmmm.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326560]I guess you just need a bunch more members like me :D

Maybe I should be a mod. hmmmmm.[/QUOTE]

Hahahahaha

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326565]Hahahahaha[/QUOTE]


HAHA, you laughed just a little too hard at that. :D

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326476]HAHAHA...so you were watching the southpark episodes instead of that little youtube section then? You must have, because it clearly shows Stewart getting closer and closer and closer and closer to hamlin, and instead of slowing down or passing...he rammed him. 110% Stewarts fault...anyone who says otherwise is clearly a Stewart fan...open and shut case here boys.[/QUOTE]

Yea I guess your right. Stewart should have slowed down so Kevin Harvick could get into the back of him. And after Stewart got wrecked and was out of the race. He should have gone to the pits and told the media that he was just protecting his teammate Denny,who for some reason lost the pace through the turn and couldn’t keep up. That would have made him a great teammate and a great driver as well right?:thumb:

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44;326786]Yea I guess your right. Stewart should have slowed down so Kevin Harvick could get onto the back of him. And after Stewart got wrecked and was out of the race. He should have gone to the pits and told the media that he was just protecting his team mate Denny who for some reason lost the pace through the turn and couldn’t keep up. That would have made him a great teammate and a great driver as well right?:thumb:[/QUOTE]

You're twisting everything...how freakin hard would it have been to PASS him? They do it at EVERY RACE...passing is a part of the sport...but I guess Tony is too good to leave his line. HAHAHA. 100% tony's fault. No other way of looking at this.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

You have to be willing to listen to the other side Jsarno, instead of constantly ridiculing it. It doesn't seem that you want to though

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

This thread is like a lost episode of Hee-Haw.

Re: JGR: Stewart Wrecks #11 Denny Hamlin
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326852]You're twisting everything...how freakin hard would it have been to PASS him? They do it at EVERY RACE...passing is a part of the sport...but I guess Tony is too good to leave his line. HAHAHA. 100% tony's fault. No other way of looking at this.[/QUOTE]


now why would you pass him if you can go THROUGH him?