Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=hesscl34;284844]I'm surprised that Springs doesn't want to stay in Washington, VERY surprised. He seems like such a Redskin guy... and I know Spring and ST have a good friendship and he helps him out a lot on the field.... hmmmmm...??? I don't like the idea of Bly coming on board if it means Springs must go. I don't like it at all.[/quote]

Naturally, I've heard this stuff to. Why does he want to leave? He's a local boy.....went to Springbrook?

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=offiss;284281]I think the real story here is why Springs want's out so badly? He is looking more and more like Champ when he wanted out. I think some of these guys see the direction of the Skins and become disconcerted about our ability to ever field a legitamate contender, we are like a revolving door for personel, an inferiour talent leaves, so an inferiour talent is brought in, and on it goes.[/quote]

The only similarities here are that both wear #24 & that both were asked to play for what they felt is below their market value.
Don't give Springs too much credit in wanting to play for a winner, he wants to get paid while the market is hot, can't blame him.
Also can't blame him for being offended at being asked to take a pay cut. His salary isn't that huge compared to what guys are making this year in free agency. If the team can ask him to take a pay cut, why can't he ask the team to let him go?
Springs is a local guy & has been a team leader, I would much rather keep him for chemistry's sake than have Bly.
Bly is from Chesapeake, VA & that's part of the reason he wants to come to the Skins.
I hope they haven't pissed Springs off beyond repair to where he demands a trade. It's not good for the team when a popular guy leaves on bad terms. The Lavar situation was more complex, and he made it easier for the team to let him go cause he ran his mouth a lot, but Springs has been a model teamate from all I can see.
Right now it seems both sides are in a standoff; Springs wants to test the market but the Skins won't let him go, the skins want him to take a pay cut but he won't. If a trade isn't done around the draft, June 1 we may decide to let him go like coles (meaning taking the cap hit) if the situation is irreparable.
I hope Gibbs can smooth this over, but that will be hard after he's already asked him to take a cut.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=hesscl34;284844]I'm surprised that Springs doesn't want to stay in Washington, VERY surprised. He seems like such a Redskin guy... and I know Spring and ST have a good friendship and he helps him out a lot on the field.... hmmmmm...??? I don't like the idea of Bly coming on board if it means Springs must go. I don't like it at all.[/quote]

Well if you rushed (or were pushed) back from an injury to your legs by the team and then they asked you to take less money the next year, would you be happy about it?

Here is my resolution. Pay Springs his salary this year. He will be playing for a contract because he knows it is essentially a contract year. Cut him next after we win the Super Bowl when the move would save us 5 million or so on the cap and fly in Bly (or a better UFA corner) next year on the first signing day!

Everybody wins!!!

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=freddyg12;284859]The only similarities here are that both wear #24 & that both were asked to play for what they felt is below their market value.
Don't give Springs too much credit in wanting to play for a winner, he wants to get paid while the market is hot, can't blame him.
Also can't blame him for being offended at being asked to take a pay cut. His salary isn't that huge compared to what guys are making this year in free agency. If the team can ask him to take a pay cut, why can't he ask the team to let him go?
Springs is a local guy & has been a team leader, I would much rather keep him for chemistry's sake than have Bly.
Bly is from Chesapeake, VA & that's part of the reason he wants to come to the Skins.
I hope they haven't pissed Springs off beyond repair to where he demands a trade. It's not good for the team when a popular guy leaves on bad terms. The Lavar situation was more complex, and he made it easier for the team to let him go cause he ran his mouth a lot, but Springs has been a model teamate from all I can see.
Right now it seems both sides are in a standoff; Springs wants to test the market but the Skins won't let him go, the skins want him to take a pay cut but he won't. If a trade isn't done around the draft, June 1 we may decide to let him go like coles (meaning taking the cap hit) if the situation is irreparable.
I hope Gibbs can smooth this over, but that will be hard after he's already asked him to take a cut.[/quote]

All I have to say to that is - THEN DON'T ASK HIM TO TAKE A CUT. Some players are worth whatever it takes to keep them around, and I think he's one of them.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Agreed. Springs has played most of all his seasons except for the last one where he got surgery just before the season. He'll be injured 2-3 games and around for the rest. Bly has only a year left, and if he really wants to be a Skin we can pick him up next year.

[QUOTE=hesscl34;284862]All I have to say to that is - THEN DON'T ASK HIM TO TAKE A CUT. Some players are worth whatever it takes to keep them around, and I think he's one of them.[/QUOTE]

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=hesscl34;284862]All I have to say to that is - THEN DON'T ASK HIM TO TAKE A CUT. Some players are worth whatever it takes to keep them around, and I think he's one of them.[/quote]

agreed, but the damage is done if not irreparable; they've already asked him to.
I think the prudent thing for Gibbs to do is 1) talk to him & reaffirm what he's telling us; that he expects Springs to play, and 2) pay him his salary if at all possible w/in the cap. Next year cut him if he's no longer worth it, but stay put for now.
I even think we'll have to do the same w/Wynn. These are not the guys we want to have disgruntled.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=That Guy;284128]bly isn't bad... but i wonder what his contract figures would be. if we're trading springs for a more expensive contract, i'm not really sure that's a very good idea.[/quote] i agree i dont think hea a upgrade i would see that as a lateral move but if the price is right and they decide to trade with pick or players we can use u never know

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=bigSkinsfan61;284914]i agree i dont think hea a upgrade i would see that as a lateral move but if the price is right and they decide to trade with pick or players we can use u never know[/quote]
The real difference is springs wants out. I really don't see Bly as that much of an upgrade (except that he is younger) and we're probably going to pay him alot of money (see clements).

I really don't know about bly's character. Is he a team kind of guy? If he's bitching already about being traded mabye that's a red flag.

Quite frankly, If he's an okay guy character wise, then I think it's a great move. Get a younger, less injury prone, corner that can force turnovers.

Seems like a swell plan.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Bly wants his Snyder payday, for that reason alone it makes me leary of bringing him in.

I think all Springs wants is to have a sense of job security. Let's face it we've been eyeballing other corners since the season ended. Gibbs has told him he's in our plans for this year, but we all know things can change on a dime if the right offer came along. I think once camp rolls around and he's still here, he won't be a problem.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

I'd rather have Springs. As Matty just said, I think Bly is just using the Skins as a pawn in his contract chess match. We have a great organization who a lot of players would like to be a part of (Smoot for example), but I don't see anything other than money motivating here, brought on by the perception that we're careless with our money. The media is to blame there, even when we are careful with our cash and aren't active in the market, like this season, we STILL get attacked for throwing money around and ruining the team by overpaying. Snyder has learned from his early mistakes and has been a great owner since the Smith/Deion experiment. Even Adam Archuleta was a good signing at the time, it filled a need with one of the best available players at the time...it's not Snyder's or Gibbs' fault that he decided not to show up on Sundays all year.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=offiss;284281]I think the real story here is why Springs want's out so badly? He is looking more and more like Champ when he wanted out. I think some of these guys see the direction of the Skins and become disconcerted about our ability to ever field a legitamate contender, we are like a revolving door for personel, an inferiour talent leaves, so an inferiour talent is brought in, and on it goes.[/QUOTE]


I have, and always will be skeptical of a player while playing for one team, and is under contract to that team, expresses a desire to be playing for another team. Springs has let it be known he'd lie to play in Denver, so maybe that's where he should be if a sensible deal could be worked out. I'd like to see him stay, he, Smoot and Rogers would be a nice combination, but if the guy's unhappy here then I'd rather move in another direction.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=Longtimefan;284955]I have, and always will be skeptical of a player while playing for one team, and is under contract to that team, expresses a desire to be playing for another team. Springs has let it be known he'd lie to play in Denver, so maybe that's where he should be if a sensible deal could be worked out. I'd like to see him stay, he, Smoot and Rogers would be a nice combination, but if the guy's unhappy here then I'd rather move in another direction.[/quote]

Is he unhappy because of mgmt asking him to take a pay cut? If that's why, then maybe they can mend that by paying him his full salary, since it appears it will cost big $ to replace him w/Bly.
I remember JLC writing that at the end of the season Springs was jokingly telling players it was nice working w/them. Maybe he had his hopes up that he'd be cut & he could test the mkt.?
I obviously don't know, but it doesn't sound unreasonable to be upset when asked to take a pay cut.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

If Springs is unhappy that he was asked to take a paycut, then I don't understand. If I was asked to take a paycut, and I didn't want to, then I would just say "no". That would be the end of it, and I wouldn't be unhappy. There are several good reasons for a team to want players to take less money. He doesn't have to take it personal.

As for job security: if I am confident in my skills, then I wouldn't be worried about losing my job (for very long). I'd just get another one. It's not hard to do in the NFL, if you have skills. On the other hand, if I knew that I was getting paid more than I deserve, and I wasn't confident in my skills (and my ability to get another job), then I would be worried.

It seems like Springs is losing confidence in his ability to play well and/or his ability to stay healthy. Maybe the FO is correct in trying to get rid of him now, instead of waiting through another year of potential injuries when his value will be even lower.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;284963]If Springs is unhappy that he was asked to take a paycut, then I don't understand. If I was asked to take a paycut, and I didn't want to, then I would just say "no". That would be the end of it, and I wouldn't be unhappy. There are several good reasons for a team to want players to take less money. He doesn't have to take it personal.

As for job security: if I am confident in my skills, then I wouldn't be worried about losing my job (for very long). I'd just get another one. It's not hard to do in the NFL, if you have skills. On the other hand, if I knew that I was getting paid more than I deserve, and I wasn't confident in my skills (and my ability to get another job), then I would be worried.

It seems like Springs is losing confidence in his ability to play well and/or his ability to stay healthy. Maybe the FO is correct in trying to get rid of him now, instead of waiting through another year of potential injuries when his value will be even lower.[/quote]

Never said he was taking it personally. In fact, all indications are that Springs is just conducting biz - he wants to try the mkt. & by refusing the pay cut he's increasing his chances.
At the same time, he is under contract & the Skins don't have to let him go or seek a trade. See my earlier post on this thread - this is cat & mouse between he & the FO; Skins have the power to keep him as he's under contract, but he has the power to only accept that contract & not take the cut.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;284958]Is he unhappy because of mgmt asking him to take a pay cut? If that's why, then maybe they can mend that by paying him his full salary, since it appears it will cost big $ to replace him w/Bly.
I remember JLC writing that at the end of the season Springs was jokingly telling players it was nice working w/them. Maybe he had his hopes up that he'd be cut & he could test the mkt.?
I obviously don't know, but it doesn't sound unreasonable to be upset when asked to take a pay cut.[/QUOTE]


In his case I don't think it's unreasonable for him to at least consider restructering his contract. He has one of the highest cap figures on the team. It's no like they're asking him to take a pay cut per-say. I think he's afraid to alter his contract in a way which calls for future considerations because he may not be around to collect it anyway. It's obvious he's out for all he can get right now, and I believe the money has always been his primary objective.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Bly is out for the Snyder payday, not much else. His record doesn't warrant all it would take to get him (including combo of picks, players [Springs a/o Betts], plus the caysh).

Springs, despite his father's Cowgirl heritage, does have local ties and probably is doing his own counter-leveraging against a paycut. Based on figures other guys are getting, he doesn't deserve a cut. 2005 he was decent; let's face it, lots of injuries besides his also hurt the team last year.
IMO, even at two years older than Bly, he's still a better player. Let's not forget what happened when we let Bailey and Walt Harris leave. From memory, they've done OK for themselves.

Final analysis: keep Springs, forget Bly, trade down the #6 for an extra pick or two and see what happens. Besides, if the Skins were anxious to dump Springs, they could have used their "post-June1" exemption and dumped him March 2nd, while being able to treat him as a June 1st cut. That new rule allows him to hit the market before the money is dried up and the team can move on with their replacement plans.

Of course, the very threat of dumping Springs on June 1st could be a ploy by the Skins to get him to restructure/take a pay cut. So complicated this salary cap game. It all looks like Monopoly money to me.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

I don't have a problem paying Springs what is owed him. He signed a contract. The team signed it also. I will say that some players on the team have different values. I give you Samuels as an example....He has restructured almost every year because he knows we maybe close to a championship and he wants to be a part of it. He wants a ring. Some players care more about the money for bills, or retirement, or for whatever reason they have. several other players have restructured also some of them are no spring chicken either. I just wish Springs would restructure knowing he possibly might get a ring and worry about this next year if he's wanting to play for Shanahan.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

I'm pretty surprised by the comments in this thread. My feeling is Bly is significantly better than Springs.

If Bly comes along with some picks as we trade down in the draft with Denver, and then we trade Springs for another pick to somebody, I think we will have:

- Gotten younger and more durable at CB.
- Gained draft picks to develop our youth and depth.
- Built an affordable foundation of talent, a much more palatable way to build a team now that average guards are getting $18 million signing bonuses.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;285054]I'm pretty surprised by the comments in this thread. My feeling is Bly is significantly better than Springs.

If Bly comes along with some picks as we trade down in the draft with Denver, and then we trade Springs for another pick to somebody, I think we will have:

- Gotten younger and more durable at CB.
- Gained draft picks to develop our youth and depth.
- Built an affordable foundation of talent, a much more palatable way to build a team now that average guards are getting $18 million signing bonuses.[/QUOTE]

Agree with it all except the point that Bly is significantly better.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Let's break it down:

Bly is 30 before the season starts; Springs is 32 (not a whole lot of difference)

Bly has started at least 10 games in every year or his career; Springs has started at least 10 games in all but two years of his career

Bly may or may not have some character issues; Springs is a character guy and God-fearing (which joe gibbs loves)

Bly is seeking to restructure a deal and get more money/security; Springs is doing the same; Bly would probably command a roughly equal or higher cap hit.

Bly is a local guy who wants to come back home; Springs is also a local guy who loves playing at home also

Bly is currently on the Denver roster but expressed interest in playing here; Springs has expressed interest in playing in Denver but is on our roster

[B]Bly has to come in and learn a whole new system! Springs already knows our system and is poised to contribute if he stays on the roster

[/B]That last factor has to be what sways the tide in favor of Springs staying with the redskins

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;284965]Never said he was taking it personally. In fact, all indications are that Springs is just conducting biz - he wants to try the mkt. & by refusing the pay cut he's increasing his chances.
At the same time, he is under contract & the Skins don't have to let him go or seek a trade. See my earlier post on this thread - this is cat & mouse between he & the FO; Skins have the power to keep him as he's under contract, but he has the power to only accept that contract & not take the cut.[/QUOTE]

My post wasn't directed at you, per se. There has been a lot of speculation about whether Springs is happy here.

I agree with you about the cat and mouse game between him and the FO. It does seem like he wants out, and he's using his contract as leverage. My only question is: does he think he'll get a bigger contract in FA? That would be ridiculous. He didn't play the entire season last year, and he didn't do anything spectacular either. Why would he think he could get a big payday in FA? Maybe he just wants to go to a contender. That is the only reason that makes sense to me.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;285058]My post wasn't directed at you, per se. There has been a lot of speculation about whether Springs is happy here.

I agree with you about the cat and mouse game between him and the FO. It does seem like he wants out, and he's using his contract as leverage. My only question is: does he think he'll get a bigger contract in FA? That would be ridiculous. He didn't play the entire season last year, and he didn't do anything spectacular either. Why would he think he could get a big payday in FA? Maybe he just wants to go to a contender. That is the only reason that makes sense to me.[/quote]

good point ghetto, but in this market I guess he and/or his agent feels there's more money to be made. I'm not sure about the contender part, but IMO most players are looking out for their financial security first, and you can't blame them for that. Springs has one payday left, but maybe he does want to go to a contender. So, lets keep him and contend!

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Kinda sounds like BLY better get used to the COLD!

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/03/06/bc.fbn.broncos.bly.ap/index.html]SI.com - NFL - Broncos optimistic Bly will come around to trade - Tuesday March 6, 2007 6:03PM[/url]

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

they are just hoping he calms down, doesn't mean he will

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=Mattyk72;284922]Bly wants his Snyder payday, for that reason alone it makes me leary of bringing him in.

[/quote]

This is True. It's like the old Woody Allen (Groucho?) saying about not joining a club that would have you as a member. The Redskins should be careful about signing people who want to play for them. Or, we're like the girl who has a reputation for putting out every Saturday night. We attract all sorts of loathsome characters who have only one thing on their minds - and we're so ashamed afterward. . The somewhat encouraging news is that so far this off-season we seem to be more restrained.

As for Springs, the trick is to keep him here [I]with[/I] cap relief. And what's this about a pay-cut? Does anyone ever take a real pay cut? Doesn't the money just get converted to bonus to make up the difference? Although, someone said that Brunell had taken a real one so I need explanation. That Guy? Schneed? Canuck? How do we keep Springs for the least cap affect? Be creative.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Let me ask you all if Springs wants out and will do a Arrington buy out of his contract would you do it? Also with Dre Bly if Denver wated to trade Bly to the Skins for our 6th pick in the draft along with Devers 1st,2nd and our 3rd from the Duckett trade woud you do that? JC of Redkin Insider feels this has a real chance of happening. Pluse a later pick in the 6th round or 7th from Denver. Also the Lions have been asking about Springs.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=RedskinPete;285087]Let me ask you all if Springs wants out and will do a Arrington buy out of his contract would you do it? Also with Dre Bly if Denver wated to trade Bly to the Skins for our 6th pick in the draft along with Devers 1st,2nd and our 3rd from the Duckett trade woud you do that? JC of Redkin Insider feels this has a real chance of happening. Pluse a later pick in the 6th round or 7th from Denver. Also the Lions have been asking about Springs.[/quote]

This would be a great deal. Even if it meant giving Bly a big signing bonus, it would allow us to sign several low priced guys in the draft. It almost sounds like they are willing to give it up "a la Cerrato" to move up to #6.

Could be a #1, #2, #3, #6, and a #3 if we also trade Springs... AND we still end up with a good corner in Bly.

I guess we will see...

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete;285087]Let me ask you all if Springs wants out and will do a Arrington buy out of his contract would you do it?[/QUOTE]



Ever since arrington bought out his contract the players association has changed the rules so players couldnt do that anymore.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=love them hogs;285125]Ever since arrington bought out his contract the players association has changed the rules so players couldnt do that anymore.[/quote]

that's generally right. he actually gave money back, but i think you might still be able to re-work your contract to exclude future guarantees that aren't yet payable...

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Here's a question who's going to be our starting CB's this year? I personally would like to see Fred Smoot, Carlos Rogers as the starters, because they're both fairly young, and if they can develop together I think they could become a premier CB tandem. Now the other question is if we keep Springs where do you think he will fit in? If we get Dre' Bly I think it will be obvious that he is our #1 CB so who is the odd man out then Rogers or Smoot?
I hope we make a decision on this Bly/ Springs trade soon so we can sort all this out.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=RMSkins;285436]Here's a question who's going to be our starting CB's this year? I personally would like to see Fred Smoot, Carlos Rogers as the starters, because they're both fairly young, and if they can develop together I think they could become a premier CB tandem. Now the other question is if we keep Springs where do you think he will fit in? If we get Dre' Bly I think it will be obvious that he is our #1 CB so who is the odd man out then Rogers or Smoot?
I hope we make a decision on this Bly/ Springs trade soon so we can sort all this out.[/quote]

smoot is a good #2 corner, not a #1. bly/springs are #1s (springs is better when completely healthy, bly misses less games). rodgers would clearly be the nickel back. he's a good #3, and on his best games he's worth starting, but last year he only had 2 good games and a ton of crappy ones, so until he figures it out, i wouldn't start him.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=That Guy;285667]smoot is a good #2 corner, not a #1. bly/springs are #1s (springs is better when completely healthy, bly misses less games). rodgers would clearly be the nickel back. he's a good #3, and on his best games he's worth starting, but last year he only had 2 good games and a ton of crappy ones, so until he figures it out, i wouldn't start him.[/quote]

I agree with you, but then what does that say about Carlos? I mean we drafted this guy with our 9th pick, and he has only been in the leauge two years, granted he struggled last year but that doesn't mean he is not going to turn out to be a good starter for us. I personally think demoting Carlos Rogers to #3 CB is a very bad decision, and will hinder his development.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

sniff sniff somebody smells what i have been stepping in for the last few days now.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

carlos isnt what he should be or what we thought he would be.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

I would love to add Bly to the mix because of his playmaking ability - he can create turnovers and that is what the skins struggled to do last year. I don't know if he's as good a cover corner as Springs, I think they are pretty close, but Dre makes plays and thats what this defense needs.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=RMSkins;285681]I agree with you, but then what does that say about Carlos? I mean we drafted this guy with our 9th pick, and he has only been in the leauge two years, granted he struggled last year but that doesn't mean he is not going to turn out to be a good starter for us. I personally think demoting Carlos Rogers to #3 CB is a very bad decision, and will hinder his development.[/quote]

nickel backs play a LOT here. I don't think it'll be that bad, an we could see more redskin victories that way, so i'm all for it.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;285691]nickel backs play a LOT here. I don't think it'll be that bad, an we could see more redskin victories that way, so i'm all for it.[/QUOTE]

agreed... if carlos rogers is our nickelback, we're in good shape.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

[quote=itvnetop;285696]agreed... if carlos rogers is our nickelback, we're in good shape.[/quote]
We're in Great shape!

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

Here is something that I got off nfl.com. Dude is like 5'9"..... That is kinda short, and I didn't see alot of tackles either. But, the upside is that he can catch the INT. What we need is Springs to be a company guy, and Rodgers needs to play tighter on the receivers and we will be fine at corner.

Re: Dre' Bly wants to be a Skin? That's What I Hear
 

God we need a GM sooooooooooo bad it's not even funny. Actually it is funny at this point.

Can someone tell me why we want Dre Bly? Bad attitude and he wants a new contract. He's already getting paid 4.3 million and wants a new deal? Why? Plus the guy is already crying like a little bitch because Marineli traded his ass to Denver. And if he comes here guess what? We are going to give another old guy a new deal. I'd rather pay Springs the 6.8 million and go with someone who is at least respected in the locker room and doesn't have a crappy non winning attitude.