Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280713]I don't think things are as bad as you make them out to be. First of all, trading our 13th pick for Coles and, eventually, Moss was one of the smartest things we did in a long time. If you wouldn't do that trade again in a heartbeat, then I'm not quite sure what to say. And hindsight is nice and all, but most scouts had Gardner and Moss neck-and-neck. Drafting Gardner didn't work out, but name me a team that hasn't had at least one 1st round bust in the past 5 years?

As for brining in aging veteran stars, we haven't done much of that since 2000 (Brunell being the only notable exception). Barrow and Upshaw were signed to tinsy, weensy signing bonuses for guys who were expected to start. Every team signs older guys and we're no exception.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Gardner was a Marty guy. He's a much better fit for that offense than Moss would have been.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280713]I don't think things are as bad as you make them out to be. First of all, trading our 13th pick for Coles and, eventually, Moss was one of the smartest things we did in a long time. If you wouldn't do that trade again in a heartbeat, then I'm not quite sure what to say. And hindsight is nice and all, but most scouts had Gardner and Moss neck-and-neck. Drafting Gardner didn't work out, but name me a team that hasn't had at least one 1st round bust in the past 5 years?

As for brining in aging veteran stars, we haven't done much of that since 2000 (Brunell being the only notable exception). Barrow and Upshaw were signed to tinsy, weensy signing bonuses for guys who were expected to start. Every team signs older guys and we're no exception.[/quote]I don't think trading the 13th pick for Coles was all that smart. Coles was a pretty solid receiver here for one season in 2003, but I would have much rather have used the 13th pick.

Now, trading Coles for Moss looks absolutely brilliant in hindsight. What a great deal. I can't think of a more lopsided trade in recent NFL history (I guess Lloyd for a 3rd and a 4th ranks up there), and we were the beneficiary of it. The credit has to go to the FO on this one.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;280724]I don't think trading the 13th pick for Coles was all that smart. Coles was a pretty solid receiver here for one season in 2003, but I would have much rather have used the 13th pick. Now, trading Coles for Moss looks absolutely brilliant in hindsight. What a great deal. I can't think of a more lopsided trade in recent NFL history (I guess Lloyd for a 3rd and a 4th ranks up there), and we were the beneficiary of it. The credit has to go to the FO on this one.[/QUOTE]

You can't look at the 13th pick for Coles as totally distinct from the Coles-Moss swap. Without trading the 13th pick for Coles, we would not have gotten Moss. So, the 13th pick for Coles-Moss is a damn good trade in my mind. We've gotten production from that 13th overall pick each year.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

strahain's better days are behind him,let the raiders sign him.the skins do'nt need him.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280727]You can't look at the 13th pick for Coles as totally distinct from the Coles-Moss swap. Without trading the 13th pick for Coles, we would not have gotten Moss. So, the 13th pick for Coles-Moss is a damn good trade in my mind. We've gotten production from that 13th overall pick each year.[/quote]Well, can't one move be bad and the other really, really great? Judging the thing as a whole sequence, I would say that it was a good move. But breaking it down, the real gem was trading a oft injured possession receiver with a knack for toughness for a top 10 receiver in this league with a knack for running between and by everyone on his way to the endzone.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

getting moss was the best trade the redskins have made in 20 years.they were 100% on the money when they decided to trade for him.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;280731]Well, can't one move be bad and the other really, really great? Judging the thing as a whole sequence, I would say that it was a good move. But breaking it down, the real gem was trading a oft injured possession receiver with a knack for toughness for a top 10 receiver in this league with a knack for running between and by everyone on his way to the endzone.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess you can look at the two moves independently. But even still, I think Coles is worth a mid 1st rounder. He's had 5,361 yards in the past 5 seasons playing with QBs like Ramsey, Brunell, and Chad "the Limp Arm" Pennington.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280738]Yeah, I guess you can look at the two moves independently. But even still, I think Coles is worth a mid 1st rounder. He's had 5,361 yards in the past 5 seasons playing with QBs like Ramsey, Brunell, and Chad "the Limp Arm" Pennington.[/quote]Again, this is getting into a positional value thing, so if you disagreed with me before, you probably disagree with me here.

Trading the 13th pick should net a better player than using it. After all, you are going to have the guy for less years, and you aren't going to get him cheap.

If we had drafted a receiver who put up Coles like production, I'd be cool with that. 13 is a good spot to pick a wide receiver who has fallen in the draft (i.e. was supposed to be selected in the top 10). But trading the 13th pick for a receiver warrents a top of the league talent, IMO. I don't think anybody is going to be confusing Coles for Steve Smith anytime soon. If we dealt the 13th directly for Moss, that would have been a fair deal. But after trading for Coles, being able to turn around and get Moss for him was wonderful value. They both play the same position, but one consistently outproduces the other. If you are the Jets there is no way you can justify this deal to us.

Also Pennington is one of the most accurate passers this league has seen in a long time. My thoughts on Brunell are well documented, and Ramsey was no slob either. It's not like he had to field passes from Shaun King or anything.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

By the way, the 13th player selected in that draft was defensive tackle Ty Warren by New England. Other players taken after #13 -- Troy Polamalu, Bryant Johnson, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson. Of course, the notion that the Redskins would have taken a defensive tackle is rather silly. There's a city ordinance in Washington that prohibits that don't you know.

But to further confuse things, what if we had stayed with the #13 pick and taken, say ... Troy Polamalu -- would we then have the need for Sean Taylor in 2004? Then, we could have selected Kellen Winslow -- but then, we might not have taken Chris Cooley -- [I]and then [/I]we would have had another second round pick in 2005 ...

Headache ensues....

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

No Thanks.....would have been nice to land him about 8 years ago.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;280724]I don't think trading the 13th pick for Coles was all that smart. Coles was a pretty solid receiver here for one season in 2003, but I would have much rather have used the 13th pick.

Now, trading Coles for Moss looks absolutely brilliant in hindsight. What a great deal. I can't think of a more lopsided trade in recent NFL history (I guess Lloyd for a 3rd and a 4th ranks up there), and we were the beneficiary of it. The credit has to go to the FO on this one.[/quote]

You think so? Moss had a better 05 but Coles had a better 06. I think it's been a good trade for both teams.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=Beemnseven;280747]By the way, the 13th player selected in that draft was defensive tackle Ty Warren by New England. Other players taken after #13 -- Troy Polamalu, Bryant Johnson, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson. Of course, the notion that the Redskins would have taken a defensive tackle is rather silly. There's a city ordinance in Washington that prohibits that don't you know.

But to further confuse things, what if we had stayed with the #13 pick and taken, say ... Troy Polamalu -- would we then have the need for Sean Taylor in 2004? Then, we could have selected Kellen Winslow -- but then, we might not have taken Chris Cooley -- [I]and then [/I]we would have had another second round pick in 2005 ...

Headache ensues....[/quote]

Ty Warren sure would look real nice on our team. Solid player on NE's defense.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

And it continues...[url=http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10023999]NFL.com - NFL News[/url]

" A source close to Strahan said the defensive end wants to discuss his future, and where the Giants intend to take their team in the future. If Strahan doesn't like what he hears, he always has the option of walking away to a TV job that is out there waiting for him, whenever he decides to retire.

And, if talks unexpectedly break down, then there would be another option Giants fans would have a hard time stomaching -- Strahan finishing his career in Washington.

The Redskins have had a long history of signing big-name players such as Strahan. Plus, he would help solve one of the team's greatest needs while his addition would weaken a division rival. NFL personnel people said over the weekend they believe the Redskins and Strahan would be an ideal match.

Yet all sides involved expect the talks between Strahan and Reese to resolve any questions they have, with the veteran defensive end returning to the position and place he manned last season in the Giants locker room."

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

wont dont need a old de even though he would be our best pass rusher. Let build thru the draft

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;280747]By the way, the 13th player selected in that draft was defensive tackle Ty Warren by New England. Other players taken after #13 -- Troy Polamalu, Bryant Johnson, Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson. Of course, the notion that the Redskins would have taken a defensive tackle is rather silly. There's a city ordinance in Washington that prohibits that don't you know.[/QUOTE]

True, but other "busts" from that class are Michael Haynes by Chicago at #14, Jerome McDougle by Philly at #15, Calvin Pace by Arizona at #18, Kyle Boller by Baltimore at #19, George Foster (who is probably going to be cut) by Denver at #20, William Joseph by NYG at #25, Kwame Harris by SF (who's been a disappointment, but not a bust) at #26, and Sammy Davis by San Diego at #30 (who just got cut by the 9ers). Who knows who we would have picked at #13.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;280745]Again, this is getting into a positional value thing, so if you disagreed with me before, you probably disagree with me here.

Trading the 13th pick should net a better player than using it. After all, you are going to have the guy for less years, and you aren't going to get him cheap.

If we had drafted a receiver who put up Coles like production, I'd be cool with that. 13 is a good spot to pick a wide receiver who has fallen in the draft (i.e. was supposed to be selected in the top 10). But trading the 13th pick for a receiver warrents a top of the league talent, IMO. I don't think anybody is going to be confusing Coles for Steve Smith anytime soon. If we dealt the 13th directly for Moss, that would have been a fair deal. But after trading for Coles, being able to turn around and get Moss for him was wonderful value. They both play the same position, but one consistently outproduces the other. If you are the Jets there is no way you can justify this deal to us.

Also Pennington is one of the most accurate passers this league has seen in a long time. My thoughts on Brunell are well documented, and Ramsey was no slob either. It's not like he had to field passes from Shaun King or anything.[/quote]

um, when coles got here, he was really fast and outproduced steve smith. and btw, coles is the one consistently outproducing moss. 2005 was the only year moss had more yardage than coles in his entire career. he averaged 1100 yards a year for us and then turned into moss (after that horrible toe injury) which gave us 2400 more yards. that's a great use of a #13 pick. coles was #7 in receiving that first year. I have no idea why you're writing like he was dirt.

your trading potential for proven results, and you get a lot less potential in a trade since the risk of busting is extremely small at that point. If you need help now, trades are safe, if you want to save money drafting, you might still need help at the same position next year. One is NOT automatically better than the other.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;280767]And it continues...[url=http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10023999]NFL.com - NFL News[/url]

" A source close to Strahan said the defensive end wants to discuss his future, and where the Giants intend to take their team in the future. If Strahan doesn't like what he hears, he always has the option of walking away to a TV job that is out there waiting for him, whenever he decides to retire.

And, if talks unexpectedly break down, then there would be another option Giants fans would have a hard time stomaching -- Strahan finishing his career in Washington.

The Redskins have had a long history of signing big-name players such as Strahan. Plus, he would help solve one of the team's greatest needs while his addition would weaken a division rival. NFL personnel people said over the weekend they believe the Redskins and Strahan would be an ideal match.

Yet all sides involved expect the talks between Strahan and Reese to resolve any questions they have, with the veteran defensive end returning to the position and place he manned last season in the Giants locker room."[/QUOTE]

Did you catch this little gem a bit further down? From the same article:

"San Francisco has two factors that are going to be awfully enticing for free-agent offensive tackle Leonard Davis.

For starters, the 49ers have more salary-cap room than any team in the league -- close to $40 million.

And second, the 49ers offensive line coach is George Warhop, the former Cardinals offensive line coach who drafted and tutored Davis during his time in Arizona.

Those two factors could make the 49ers the favorite to land Davis.

[B]But Dallas and Washington also will be interested. [/B]

Yet Washington's biggest needs are on defense. When the free-agent signing period starts, many NFL personnel men expect the Redskins to make a significant push at Buffalo's free-agent linebacker London Fletcher-Baker. He would be an ideal fit for the Redskins on and off the field. He could make the defensive plays the team needs and provide the leadership it has lacked.

There was talk that Detroit would pursue Fletcher-Baker, but it seems as if the Lions now are channeling their energies into other areas. They know when the Redskins want a certain free agent, they usually succeed. And chances are they will do the same with Fletcher-Baker."

Leonard Davis? Where did Scheffter here that Washinton was interested? Granted, he seemed to diffuse his own statement by saying that Washington's needs are on defense. But still ... where the hell did that come from? Leonard Davis???

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280776]True, but other "busts" from that class are Michael Haynes by Chicago at #14, Jerome McDougle by Philly at #15, Calvin Pace by Arizona at #18, Kyle Boller by Baltimore at #19, George Foster (who is probably going to be cut) by Denver at #20, William Joseph by NYG at #25, Kwame Harris by SF (who's been a disappointment, but not a bust) at #26, and Sammy Davis by San Diego at #30 (who just got cut by the 9ers). Who knows who we would have picked at #13.[/QUOTE]

Oh I know. And who's to say all the 'hits' in that round would have flourished in Washington with Steve Spurrier coaching?

Just goes to show the whole thing is a crap shoot.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;280783]Did you catch this little gem a bit further down? From the same article:

"[B]But Dallas and Washington also will be interested. [/B]

Leonard Davis? Where did Scheffter here that Washinton was interested? Granted, he seemed to diffuse his own statement by saying that Washington's needs are on defense. But still ... where the hell did that come from? Leonard Davis???[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm guessing that Schefter came up with that based on (A) the perception that Washington is in the mix for every free agent, (B) the speculation that Washington will try to nab Davis as a replacement for Dockery if Dock leaves via free agency, or (C) some inside information.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

I am sure Gibbs can convince Danny boy to cram a 12 million dollar signing bonus through that gap in Strahans front teeth, then we can all watch him smile as he rides off into the sunset of retirement with our salary cap on the back of his hog.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=skinsfan69;280763]You think so? Moss had a better 05 but Coles had a better 06. I think it's been a good trade for both teams.[/quote]Coles was a 1000 yard WR this year, but he also caught 36! more passes. That's 4 really good games worth. We do have to analyze the reason for this. Did Coles catch 36 more passes because he was that much better, or because he simply got thrown to more often? Considering Moss doesn't drop that many passes, I'd think that it was because Coles got thrown to so much. Santana missed a few games here and there to contribute.

I truely believe that most receivers are similar before the catch, but what really seperates receivers is their ability to make plays after the catch. Look at these numbers:

Coles Y/R (2002-2006)

14.2
14.7
[B]10.6[/B]
11.6
12.1

Moss Y/R (2002-2006)

14.4
14.9
[B]18.6[/B]
17.7
14.4

I bolded the final year before the Coles-Moss deal was made. Although their careers had been similar until that point, Moss undoubtably proved that while playing with Quincy Carter for half the year, that he could make big plays in the passing game. Coles had an injury riddled season. If the trade was made before 2004, the Jets would have had some justification. But over the last three years, they are in two seperate echilons.

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=GTripp0012;280850]Coles was a 1000 yard WR this year, but he also caught 36! more passes. That's 4 really good games worth. We do have to analyze the reason for this. Did Coles catch 36 more passes because he was that much better, or because he simply got thrown to more often? Considering Moss doesn't drop that many passes, I'd think that it was because Coles got thrown to so much. Santana missed a few games here and there to contribute.

I truely believe that most receivers are similar before the catch, but what really seperates receivers is their ability to make plays after the catch. Look at these numbers:

Coles Y/R (2002-2006)

14.2
14.7
[B]10.6[/B]
11.6
12.1

Moss Y/R (2002-2006)

14.4
14.9
[B]18.6[/B]
17.7
14.4

I bolded the final year before the Coles-Moss deal was made. Although their careers had been similar until that point, Moss undoubtably proved that while playing with Quincy Carter for half the year, that he could make big plays in the passing game. Coles had an injury riddled season. If the trade was made before 2004, the Jets would have had some justification. But over the last three years, they are in two seperate echilons.[/quote]

two things. ypc is generally not how WRs are measured (unless for their deep threat ability), yardage is generally used (it doesn't matter if you catch 100 short pases or 30 bombs, what matters is if you're helping the offense).

having a great deep threat on a team with a limp armed qb would be a horrible mistake. moss just didn't fit well with what they were doing, and coles did. I think if we had coles last year and they had moss, coles would have still outperformed on yardage, simply because moss wouldn't be getting too many bombs from a qb like pennington, and they weren't really screening to him much either.

being good in one person's system doesn't mean you'll be great in every system (though when you're as good as moss, the system should work around to include what you do best). what's important for the skins is that they have a #1 WR/deep threat (that can go to the ball and erase mistakes) with a QB can that's pretty good at chucking it deep.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

I think Strahan will ultimately stay with the Giants. For a bargain basement price he wouldn't be awful here for a year (not that I want him). But if we're going to go after an aging pass rusher then why not consider Kevin Carter?

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

Dont bring Strahan in! It would send the message that weve been ALREADY been sendinf for the last couple years.

"Dont wanna work hard? Used to be good? Old? Suck? Heres 10 mil, welcome to the Washington Redskins." **** that. Im so tired of that buncha shit.

hey, on an unrelated note, any news on resigning/restructring Dock?

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=TAFKAS;281117]I think Strahan will ultimately stay with the Giants. For a bargain basement price he wouldn't be awful here for a year (not that I want him). But if we're going to go after an aging pass rusher then why not consider Kevin Carter?[/quote]

Superman and Captain Chaos on the same team? Look out!

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

Is it me or are we lookin like the retirement home for the NFL. Why wouldnt anyone who is on the downslope of their career, wanna come to us. Snyders is a heroe to these guys. He overpays em and only gets a half of a season out of em. Duh. Isnt it a coincidance they get hurt so fast. Thanks for the check. See ya later. Lavar got us real good for years. Do ya think him and gayhand didnt chat it up about it???

Re: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

[quote=That Guy;280965]two things. ypc is generally not how WRs are measured (unless for their deep threat ability), yardage is generally used (it doesn't matter if you catch 100 short pases or 30 bombs, what matters is if you're helping the offense).

having a great deep threat on a team with a limp armed qb would be a horrible mistake. moss just didn't fit well with what they were doing, and coles did. I think if we had coles last year and they had moss, coles would have still outperformed on yardage, simply because moss wouldn't be getting too many bombs from a qb like pennington, and they weren't really screening to him much either.

being good in one person's system doesn't mean you'll be great in every system (though when you're as good as moss, the system should work around to include what you do best). what's important for the skins is that they have a #1 WR/deep threat (that can go to the ball and erase mistakes) with a QB can that's pretty good at chucking it deep.[/quote]

Agreed. Well put.

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

It is good that they cannot afford Strahan this year...

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

No shit. Im glad our FO is almost broke for once. If we brought in Strahan, he would get fat paid, play 3 games, get "hurt" and be gone. Oh and we'd be the laughing stock of professional sports, not just the NFL. Oh wait, too late......

ouch little harsh. Sorry, just pissed that they're lloking at Strahan and they havent resigned Dock yet. F-ing jerk offs.....

Re: Rumor: Strahan Wants To Be A Redskin
 

espn said this would be a great move for the skins if it happened (doubtful)