Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

Given all the drama and upheaval in their coaching staff this offseason I think it's going to take a toll on them come the regular season. Add in the fact they now have Norv I'll give them 10 wins at the most, and that's only due to the fact they are loaded talent wise. Even Norv couldn't mess things up too bad... or could he?

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;278662]Did anyone hear Jerry Rice's comments yesterday on Norv? He said when he played for him in Oakland Norv had "no control" over his players.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly how it was when he was with the Redskins

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

My point is simply that, based on my own observations of Turner's Skins' teams, his teams lacked the discipline to do the little things right consistently.

He has great schemes and can generally run up a score. Consistently, on Norv coached teams, the inmates were running the prison. Jerry Rice's comment is similar to a comment made by either Wilbon or Kornheiser during Turner's tenure with the Skins that the locker room seemed like club med. When that happens, even if they have heightened attention during the playoffs, they simply will make costly errors at crucial times. Teams have to practice focus and concentration. At the highest level, these are not skills that can be simply put in effect for a game or two and they are the skills that separate really good teams.

In an otherwise evenly matched game talent-wise, which team do you think is more likely to make a silly mistake at the wrong time? A Norv Turner coached team or a team coached by Bellicheck or Dungy?

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;278656]Yeah it only took 6 years for that pendulum to swing.

Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here[/QUOTE]

What do you mean in "only took 6 years for the pendulum to swing" ??

The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over.

Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed.

Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had.

Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;278662]Did anyone hear Jerry Rice's comments yesterday on Norv? He said when he played for him in Oakland Norv had "no control" over his players.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Al Davis has the control. Everybody knows that.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278675]Yeah, Al Davis has the control. Everybody knows that.[/quote]

A coach still has to have some level of control and authority. Do you think Gruden was completely powerless over his locker room in Oakland too just because of Davis??

What was Norv's excuse here then?

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278674]What do you mean in "only took 6 years for the pendulum to swing" ??

The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over.

Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed.

Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had.

Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's.[/quote]

I just think you're cutting him way too much slack is all. He's a nice guy and a good offensive coordinator. That doesn't change the fact he's proven to be a sub-par head coach in this league.

If anything we gave him too many chances here, he should have been canned after that monumental collapse in '96.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

Norv's time in oakland can be thrown out the window. Not a good fit, but hey i don't recall the diciplinarian, Art Shell, doing so well there either. He "lost" the team too and won less games. The raiders are a lost cause. I think the coach before Norv "lost" the team too.

Norv is going to be calling the shots personell wise. So even though he had many busts in DC he's not going to have the same role in SD. He's got his D set and he started that system that Cam C ran for a few years, so who knows.

He's a nice guy and yea i'm hoping they do well.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=Mattyk72;278676]A coach still has to have some level of control and authority. Do you think Gruden was completely powerless over his locker room in Oakland too just because of Davis??

What was Norv's excuse here then?[/quote]

Not saying Norv is totally blameless but Art Shell "lost" the team, Norv "lost" the team, and the coach before Norv "lost" the team (i can't recall his name). There's a trend. They are the raiders. Let's pretend his year there didn't exist. They're hopeless.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;278676]A coach still has to have some level of control and authority. Do you think Gruden was completely powerless over his locker room in Oakland too just because of Davis??

What was Norv's excuse here then?[/QUOTE]


Gruden was the exception to the rule.

Honestly, the Raiders are a grease-fire. Anyone who had the misfortune of being associated with that franchise deserves at least one shot with the 'get of jail free card'.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771716]ESPN.com - NFL - Chargers add Rivera to coaching staff[/url]

the chargers coaching staff is looking more and more like the skins with 3 top notch coordinators...do they even need a great head coach with that much talent on the field and on the staff

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

Let's look at it this way: Which of Turner's teams had the most talent?

Answer: The '99 team. He finally got hold of a proven, veteran quarterback who made good decisions and still had enough of an arm to get his offense down the field. They found themselves a steal of a running back in the 4th round with Stephen Davis who turned out to be the perfect fit with an offensive line built to pound the ball. Westbrook and Connell had hit their peak at just the right time and found the right chemistry with Brad Johnson.

On the defensive side, they were mediocre to put it nicely. They gave up a ton of points.

Norv took that team to the second round of the playoffs with a banged up Stephen Davis and a seriously flawed defense.

From 1994-1998 he did about what could be expected from just about any head coach. And in 2000, there were 3 or 4 wins that got away because Sndyeratto decided not to pursue a kicker.

It was time for Norv to leave, I'll admit. I just don't think the man is the imbecile everyone else makes him out to be.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

I'm not saying he's an imbecile at all. He's a proven coordinator in this league, but as a head coach his record speaks for itself. Who knows, maybe San Diego will be a good fit. They have a great defensive coordinator to run that side of the ball, they have talent, and they have one of the best GMs in the league. He's taking over an offense that he installed in 2001 when he was there, so there will be little change there. Something just tells me he'll find a way to screw it up. Marty to Norv is a huge drop-off.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

Jerry Rice and all the Sirius guys have been very dismissal of Norv since the San Diego positioned opened.

I really think he was the choice and a good choice at that. He has two very obvious strengths: he's great with young QBs and he's great with RBs. If you are trying to maintain San Diego's success, who better? If they can score 500 points with MARTY, why not 600 points with Norv?

Norv has never been good at managing the clubhouse, but this is NOT the Oakland Raiders. The clubhouse is very good, very mature and focused. This is Norv Turner's dream job, and I think he will be very successful if the defense holds up under their new coordinator.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

being a head coach requires leadership and having balls. he has neither.

the team leadership better be super strong and able to work out it's own issues, or his run isn't going to be all that great. maybe cotrell or rivera can do that for him, who knows...

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=redsk1;278680]Not saying Norv is totally blameless but Art Shell "lost" the team, Norv "lost" the team, and the coach before Norv "lost" the team (i can't recall his name). There's a trend. They are the raiders. Let's pretend his year there didn't exist. They're hopeless.[/quote]Bill Callaghan.

And as stated before, Turner lost his QB for the year in 2004. Gannon was (at time of retirement) still playing at a very high level. His replacement was Kerry freakin Collins.

The Raiders under Norv were not as bad as their record suggests. They just had a below average defense (And the trade for R. Moss was every bit as stupid as I thought it would be for them). This year they had the best defense that franchise has had in the last decade, and were the unianimous worst team in the league. It's safe to say that the Raiders downgraded their coaching staff last offseason.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

*cries in this thread*

Honestly, what are the chances that the two places he would still get HC consideration would open up? God hates the 49ers.

If they win more than 10 games I will be shocked. They went from Marty Schottenheimer and Wade Phillips to Norv Turner and Ted Cottrell. GREAT start to the offseason...:Flush:

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

My word rex, thats one ugly helmet. God's not the only one!

Even Norv will have a hard time screwing this thing up? But if ANYBOBY CAN HE'S THE MAN.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;280287]My word rex, thats one ugly helmet. God's not the only one!

Even Norv will have a hard time screwing this thing up? But if ANYBOBY CAN HE'S THE MAN.[/quote]I didn't even understand some of that. I like our helmets though.:)

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=Beemnseven;278688]Let's look at it this way: Which of Turner's teams had the most talent?

Answer: The '99 team. He finally got hold of a proven, veteran quarterback who made good decisions and still had enough of an arm to get his offense down the field. They found themselves a steal of a running back in the 4th round with Stephen Davis who turned out to be the perfect fit with an offensive line built to pound the ball. Westbrook and Connell had hit their peak at just the right time and found the right chemistry with Brad Johnson.

On the defensive side, they were mediocre to put it nicely. They gave up a ton of points.

Norv took that team to the second round of the playoffs with a banged up Stephen Davis and a seriously flawed defense.

From 1994-1998 he did about what could be expected from just about any head coach. And in 2000, there were 3 or 4 wins that got away because Sndyeratto decided not to pursue a kicker.

It was time for Norv to leave, I'll admit. I just don't think the man is the imbecile everyone else makes him out to be.[/quote]

I remember a few tough losses in 2000, can't remember how many I could put on the kicker, but I can remember a couple on Stephen Davis fumbles.
that year we beat 4 of the best teams in football, including both super bowl teams, but we couldn't win the 'easy' games. Is that coaching? I don't know if you could put it all on Norv, but I also don't think it wasn't only the Danny that thought he couldn't handle his team. Seems the opinion was shared by many in the league.
Maybe SD feels its his time & they have enough confidence in their personnel to get it done next year regardless of Norv's track record. The inside word on him is probably pretty favorable.
How have teams done after Marty left? Cleveland, KC & Skins; I don't remember any having a winning record. Marty may be a tough act to follow.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=Rexi;280290]I didn't even understand some of that. I like our helmets though.:)[/quote]

What part did you not understand? I'll be glad to explain.

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

Well, let's just take a guy who has not had any success since the early 90's when he had 3 Hall of Famers..... Yes, that makes much more sense than taking someone with qualifications like Ron Rivera, Mike Singletary or any of the other quality guys.... I would rather have someone untested, then someone who has failed the test for 15 years running...

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

I will go to my grave believing that the 1999 Redskins would have won a Super Bowl if not for one botched snap, we could have easily beaten the Rams, and the Titans. I think Dan Snyder believes the same thing, because he cut the Turk brothers and brought in a couple of 1993 NFL All Pros, albeit 7 yrs past their Primetime. He destroyed any chance we had of competing that season, the distractions started in camp and continued through the undressing of Norv Turner after a loss to the Cowboys. I think Norv's shortcoming is that he is one of the least inspirational coaches ever.

But maybe he's going to change. Belichick was pretty bad in Cleveland, and now he's a "genius."

Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;280300]What part did you not understand? I'll be glad to explain.[/quote]
No I think I got it after re-reading. It just seemed oddly worded the first time I read it. No big deal man.