Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

asante samuel has tremendous upside though.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;272037]I agree. If signing one of these guys prevents us from getting an MLB or DE (and we need both) then we are just pissing in the wind.
I would rather go after Smoot who will be much cheaper.
When Springs gets hurt a combination of Smoot, Rogers and Wright would be good enough until SS came back (as long as they are getting a consistent pass rush). Essentially that would be 3 #2 corners.[/QUOTE]

That is not a bad idea, it solves two needs in a responsible way. Although Smoot would have to agree to a pay cut.
I do not think corner is our #1 need. It is third.
#1 in my estimation is SS (A.Archuleta failure) is very glaring need. LB & DE is second and CB & OG are tied for third.
Safety is a very important position. Even if we draft another FS and move Sean Taylor to SS, we would be set.
I know we will draft a defensive player, most likely a DE, Safety or Corner with our 1st round pick. We have to do a better job in the draft. I am tired of over paying FA's.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

Why don't we just trade for Ty Law?

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=djnemo65;272060]Why don't we just trade for Ty Law?[/quote]

What would we trade them? Also, isn't he in the same category as Springs? The general consensus is that they should utilize their draft picks as opposed to trading them for guys with limited time left in the league.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;272066]What would we trade them? Also, isn't he in the same category as Springs? The general consensus is that they should utilize their draft picks as opposed to trading them for guys with limited time left in the league.[/QUOTE]

I was kidding

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clemons???
 

[quote=GTripp0012;272030]But if we are going to go out and spend on a corner anyway, why not get the best possible one we can? Carlos Rogers is best suited to play on the opposition's no. 2 Wideout. He (Rogers) is too good against the run to not have on the field.

If we get a guy like Clements, Springs can play the nickle. This will:

1) decrease the probability of an injury to Springs.
2) give us the best possible depth at the CB position.[/quote]

springs as the #3?? please mama no. springs is better against the run than carlos, and he's way better vs the pass. rodgers would go back to #3 where he's best suited and he'd be available in case of injury.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

Both are sound players and, in theory, could make a positive impact on next years team. We will have to play 'wait and see' on such acquisitions from the personnel evaluators.

I don't expect a big free agent acquisition off-season for the Redskins ... just a from-the-gut feeling.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[IMG]http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2007/0123/nba_g_stevenash_412.jpg[/IMG]

Totally random, but this cracked me up.

It looks like he's saying: "Hey sailor! Nice ass!!"

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;272105][IMG]http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2007/0123/nba_g_stevenash_412.jpg[/IMG]

Totally random, but this cracked me up.

It looks like he's saying: "Hey sailor! Nice ass!!"[/QUOTE]

LOL. Of course, he'd have to be saying that with a lisp. :)

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=Dogtag;272091]Both are sound players and, in theory, could make a positive impact on next years team. We will have to play 'wait and see' on such acquisitions from the personnel evaluators.

I don't expect a big free agent acquisition off-season for the Redskins ... just a from-the-gut feeling.[/quote]

This [I][B]is[/B][/I] the Redskins we're talking about.

With limited draft picks there's only one way to address our needs... free agency.

There's bound to be at least one big name signing.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=That Guy;272013]there's a difference between high priced and overpaid. just cause dan spends a lot of money on players doesn't make them good. no one's b***hing about marcus washington, and he's making a ton.[/quote]

I could be wrong but Washington signed something like 24 mil over 5 years. That's fair if you ask me. I saw on Sports Center that Samuel wants Champ Bailey $. 18 mil bonus. F- that!

What we need to do is go out and get a 2nd tier guy, perhaps Smoot if he is cut and hope that the rest of the guys can play better. With the 6th pick take the best player on the board. If Branch is the guy then draft him. But honestly some of the problems can be fixed by guys staying healthy, like Springs, and some playing better, like Taylor.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=charlielyons;272009]i completly agree[/quote]

I heard today that Samuel and NE are so far apart on $ that they are just going to franchise him. So he's getting his raise. But it looks like he's probably staying in NE.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

You know what is ironic about Asante Samuel - New England drafted him the 4th Round! That goes to show you if you actually value your draft picks and keep them you can get great talent at a reasonble price if you have a descent personnel man.
Oh wait the Redskins have Vinny Cerrato at that position - never mind.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=skinsfan69;272129]I could be wrong but Washington signed something like 24 mil over 5 years. That's fair if you ask me. I saw on Sports Center that Samuel wants Champ Bailey $. 18 mil bonus. F- that!

What we need to do is go out and get a 2nd tier guy, perhaps Smoot if he is cut and hope that the rest of the guys can play better. With the 6th pick take the best player on the board. If Branch is the guy then draft him. But honestly some of the problems can be fixed by guys staying healthy, like Springs, and some playing better, like Taylor.[/quote]

yeah it is fair, but you know why? cause he's playing up to it. if archuleta had 16 sacks, we wouldn't be complaining about him either.

and springs has a history of injury problems... it's just part of the deal, so you've got to have a better backup plan than crossed fingers :/.

it he worth champ bailey money? probably not, but with the huge increase in the cap, all prices are up, beyond the normal annual rate. If he gives you 12 picks a year and gives up less than 4 big plays, he'd totally be worth it, but that's very hard to predict. I'd guess he won't, since that's obviously not likely, but we're not going to be able to draft or sign anyone better as far as immediately fixing the secondary than a clements or samuels.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=That Guy;272160]yeah it is fair, but you know why? cause he's playing up to it. if archuleta had 16 sacks, we wouldn't be complaining about him either.

and springs has a history of injury problems... it's just part of the deal, so you've got to have a better backup plan than crossed fingers :/.

it he worth champ bailey money? probably not, but with the huge increase in the cap, all prices are up, beyond the normal annual rate. If he gives you 12 picks a year and gives up less than 4 big plays, he'd totally be worth it, but that's very hard to predict. I'd guess he won't, since that's obviously not likely, but we're not going to be able to draft or sign anyone better as far as immediately fixing the secondary than a clements or samuels.[/quote]

Do you honestly think NE is going to let Samuel walk and not get anything in return? Your talking about the best FO in the NFL. It's not going to happen. He's not coming here.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=Bill B;272158]You know what is ironic about Asante Samuel - New England drafted him the 4th Round! That goes to show you if you actually value your draft picks and keep them you can get great talent at a reasonble price if you have a descent personnel man.
Oh wait the Redskins have Vinny Cerrato at that position - never mind.[/quote]

Vinny has to stay. If he left Snyder wouldn't have anyone to play raquetball with.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;272177]Do you honestly think NE is going to let Samuel walk and not get anything in return? Your talking about the best FO in the NFL. It's not going to happen. He's not coming here.[/QUOTE]

One of the reasons they're a top notch FO is because they don't overpay. That could very well be the reason why they let him go. However, if they have the cap space to franchise him, then I can't see why they wouldn't.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=skinsfan69;272177]Do you honestly think NE is going to let Samuel walk and not get anything in return? Your talking about the best FO in the NFL. It's not going to happen. He's not coming here.[/quote]

did i ever say he was?

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

The Patriots let guys go all the time. Unless I'm mistaken.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clemons???
 

[quote=That Guy;272080]springs as the #3?? please mama no. springs is better against the run than carlos, and he's way better vs the pass. rodgers would go back to #3 where he's best suited and he'd be available in case of injury.[/quote]Springs is better against the pass right now, but by midseason, Carlos could pass him with a bit more expierence. Carlos is already better vs. the run, not to say that Springs isn't good against the run, Rogers is just among the leagues best. Right up there with Ronde Barber in terms of run support.

Springs is in decline, though. Rogers is a first round pick in his third, and argueably most crucial year. He's got to play. Sure, Springs would be the league's best nickle (and more than capable of starting), but is that a bad thing?

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clemons???
 

[quote=GTripp0012;272199]Springs is better against the pass right now, but by midseason, Carlos could pass him with a bit more expierence. Carlos is already better vs. the run, not to say that Springs isn't good against the run, Rogers is just among the leagues best. Right up there with Ronde Barber in terms of run support.

Springs is in decline, though. Rogers is a first round pick in his third, and argueably most crucial year. He's got to play. Sure, Springs would be the league's best nickle (and more than capable of starting), but is that a bad thing?[/quote]

maybe i missed something, but carlos looked terrible most of the year, and he had easier assignments. I believe keeping the better talent on the field will win more games, and right now, carlos isn't even close to springs. hell, kenny wright was getting burnt less... a lot less. he was supposed to be the #3, but people were choosing to throw on rodgers instead of him.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

The secondary was weak on depth and talent wise but I think the fact we had no pressure on the qb played more into them getting torched than anything else.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clemons???
 

[quote=That Guy;272252]maybe i missed something, but carlos looked terrible most of the year, and he had easier assignments. I believe keeping the better talent on the field will win more games, and right now, carlos isn't even close to springs. hell, kenny wright was getting burnt less... a lot less. he was supposed to be the #3, but people were choosing to throw on rodgers instead of him.[/quote]Carlos looked great against inferior talent. That could be said about a lot of guys, obviously, but the key is to make sure you have a guy on the field across from him who is a better cover guy. IF we did sign Clements, I think it should be Rogers wo starts across from him.

All the "cushion" problems we had came when he and Wright were the starters. In that case, the opposition could just target their best player, because he was probably better than the CB covering him.

In nickle situations, I'd still want Springs on the outside, and Rogers on the slot guy. Just when we are in our base 4-3, and expecting the run, I want Rogers on the field.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

Our problem all year happened at the LOS. Andre Carter was terrible vs. the run. He was our lone bright spot against the pass. Our blitzes are ineffective because it blitzing negates Carter's ability to utilize the speed rush. On top of that, we were terrible on third and long.

We are likely stuck with Carter, so its time to build around him. Upgrade DT, upgrade the other end. Get a MLB with sideline to sideline speed to string out plays designed to go at Andre Carter.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=TAFKAS;272194]The Patriots let guys go all the time. Unless I'm mistaken.[/quote]

True. But they are going to get value for a top notch NFL corner that is in his prime. Trust me. He's not going to walk and they get nothing. The players that they let go did not command Samuel's value. Look at what they did with Deion Branch. Branch has value and they got something for him.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;272270]True. But they are going to get value for a top notch NFL corner that is in his prime. Trust me. He's not going to walk and they get nothing. The players that they let go did not command Samuel's value. Look at what they did with Deion Branch. Branch has value and they got something for him.[/QUOTE]

Did they get anything for guys like Law, McGinnest, Givens, and Viniatieri? Not trying to be a pain, I really don't recall. I'm inclined to think they didn't. Sometimes there's nothing a team can do when a player wants to leave. Not knocking the Pats organization by any means. Just saying sometimes things are out of their control. Just like any team.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=TAFKAS;272275]Did they get anything for guys like Law, McGinnest, Givens, and Viniatieri? Not trying to be a pain, I really don't recall. I'm inclined to think they didn't. Sometimes there's nothing a team can do when a player wants to leave. Not knocking the Pats organization by any means. Just saying sometimes things are out of their control. Just like any team.[/quote]

I think with Viniateri and Givens they felt they could replace both with drafting the new kicker and Chad Jackson. McGinnest is in his mid 30's so I guess they felt he was on the downside. But Ty Law (and Lawyer Malloy) is interesting. I know Law hurt his foot during one of the SB runs and could not play. I wonder if they did get anything back for those guys. I honestly don't remember. But I already heard on Sports Center that they are planning to franchise Samuel if they can't get a deal done.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

I say Nate Clements, according to alot of sources on the internet, Asante Samuels believes hes the best corner on the market and wants to be paid like it. But my ideal situation would be to bring back Smoot, I know alot of people think hes washed up now, but i believe that had to do more with Minnesotas system than it had to do with Smoot having depleted skills. He was a really good corner here, and I know he would love to come back, he wouldnt be expensive and GW knows how to use him. I think picking up Nate Clements and Fred Smoot would be great, that would allow us to move Shawn Springs to safety and see how that works out, or we could just cut Springs and start Doughty at safety and see if we got some young talent on this roster.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

GW let smoot go because he wasn't a great tackler. he passed up andre dyson (and instead used a draft pick on a CB instead of DL) because dyson isn't a great tackler... so i'm not sure if the bring smoot back campaign is going to work.

I mean, all three years, we've been terrible at defending #2 WRs. that's part of why pulling springs from the starting lineup seems stupid to me.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

because smoot was a great character, and a fan favorite, people want him back? he was the third corner on the vikings. we have enough nickle backs around here, rogers included

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=dmek25;272340]because smoot was a great character, and a fan favorite, people want him back? he was the third corner on the vikings. we have enough nickle backs around here, rogers included[/quote]

It doesn't matter what he was on the Vikings. Unless an injury has reduced his skill he has proven that he can play well in G-Dub's defense. That is all that matters.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=That Guy;272335]GW let smoot go because he wasn't a great tackler. he passed up andre dyson (and instead used a draft pick on a CB instead of DL) because dyson isn't a great tackler... so i'm not sure if the bring smoot back campaign is going to work.

I mean, all three years, we've been terrible at defending #2 WRs. that's part of why pulling springs from the starting lineup seems stupid to me.[/quote]

I'll take someone who can cover.

Kenny Wright could tackle, but only when he was chasing someone down after a long gain.

This is the crap that pisses me off about GW. Sure, he has a proven system, but SO DO OTHER TEAMS. He doesn't play his rookies, has to HAVE a physical corner, HAS to do shit differently. Other teams do the opposites and still have success.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;272345]It doesn't matter what he was on the Vikings. Unless an injury has reduced his skill he has proven that he can play well in G-Dub's defense. That is all that matters.[/quote]
i think maybe being a 3rd corner, behind a rookie, might be an indication that his skill level has dropped

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

I worry about New England guys just being system guys. Clements definitely...

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

I agree. I've never seen such a mediocre crop of talent overperform so much since last year's playoff Redskins.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;272502]Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.[/quote]Not to say draft status is a great measure of production (it isn't), but on their offense alone:

Logan Mankins-1st round
Daniel Graham-1st round
Ben Watson-1st round
Laurence Maroney-1st round
Matt Light-2nd round
Reche Caldwell-2nd round (by San Diego)
Jabar Gaffney-2nd round (by Houston)
Chad Jackson-2nd round
Kevin Faulk-2nd round
Nick Kazur-3rd round

The Patriots have also spent second round picks on receivers Bethyl Johnson, and Deion Branch.

The point is that the Patriots have poured a bunch into their offense, 10 players were drafted in the first day, 7 of those guys are starters. So while Brady certainly is the guy who makes it all work, it shouldn't surprise anyone that wins, cause he has so much to work with.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;272502]Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.[/QUOTE]

I'd take 1 Tom Brady and 10 no-names over 1 sub-par QB and 10 good players. I think Belichick is a good coach, but I'm not sure what he would do without Brady.

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=GTripp0012;272527]Not to say draft status is a great measure of production (it isn't), but on their offense alone:

Logan Mankins-1st round
Daniel Graham-1st round
Ben Watson-1st round
Laurence Maroney-1st round
Matt Light-2nd round
Reche Caldwell-2nd round (by San Diego)
Jabar Gaffney-2nd round (by Houston)
Chad Jackson-2nd round
Kevin Faulk-2nd round
Nick Kazur-3rd round

The Patriots have also spent second round picks on receivers Bethyl Johnson, and Deion Branch.

The point is that the Patriots have poured a bunch into their offense, 10 players were drafted in the first day, 7 of those guys are starters. So while Brady certainly is the guy who makes it all work, it shouldn't surprise anyone that wins, cause he has so much to work with.[/quote]

Noboby on that list is a top player in that league, and pretty much all of them are at best average players

Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???
 

[quote=dmek25;272353]i think maybe being a 3rd corner, behind a rookie, might be an indication that his skill level has dropped[/quote]

Given all of the things that he has been involved with politics is probably just as likely.

Politics rules our team and there is no reason to think that it isn't important on other teams (especially with Smoot's track record in Minny).