Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=Beemnseven;269987]Man, Belichick is as charmed as Marty is cursed. Did anyone notice how just about every flag in the second half was against the Chargers? It's as if the officials all got together and agreed not to call the Pats for anything.

One thing's for sure -- this was New England's biggest challenge. Now they can set it on cruise control. They beat a better team that made too many boneheaded mistakes, and there's no other team left that stands a chance.

Belichick and Brady have always had the Colts' number. The NFL could change the rules just for Indy and allow the Colts to line up 15 players against 11 Patriots and the Patriots would still somehow win. The ball always seems to bounce their way no matter what.

Unbelieveable.[/quote]

I know it was the regular season, but the Colts have beaten the Pats two straight times. I wouldn't crown the Pats just yet, just to borrow a phrase from the great Dennis Green.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

I hated the fact that NE won today! I was really hoping for a SD vs NO Super Bowl! I just hope Indy can finally get into it. If Chicago gets in, I just don't believe they have a strong enough team to win it all! I don't trust Rex Grossman!

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=saden1;269992]What's up with LT at the end there? He looked pissed.[/QUOTE]

I think he was just frustrated over the loss. SD should've won the game today!

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

arguing over who is a better player in football is stupid because it's a team sport that depends on the other 10 players on the field with them. Whoever you believe is better is subjective and cannot be seriously proven.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;269996]I think he was just frustrated over the loss. SD should've won the game today![/QUOTE]

LT was pissed that some of the Patriots were doing the Shawn Merrimen dance on their logo at mid-field. He called it classless.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=saden1;269992]What's up with LT at the end there? He looked pissed.[/quote]

he said he was upset with some of the pats players because they went to the center of the field and did that dance thing that shawn merriman always does.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=Duffman003;269997]arguing over who is a better player in football is stupid because it's a team sport that depends on the other 10 players on the field with them. Whoever you believe is better is subjective and cannot be seriously proven.[/quote]

Not neccesarily. One great player can make a world of difference for a team. Look at how much better the Skins defense was with Shawn Springs in the secondary as opposed to how unbelievably awful they were without him. It's a team sport, true, but you can't say that great players can't make a huge difference.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

I hope poor LT didn't have his feelings hurt by a dance!

Ill buy him some Johnsons and Johnsons.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

Brady had a horrible game. He missed passes that he would normally make in his sleep. The Pats received several gifts and took advantage of it.

They do not look like a Super Bowl Champion to me.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=Duffman003;269997]arguing over who is a better player in football is stupid because it's a team sport that depends on the other 10 players on the field with them. Whoever you believe is better is subjective and cannot be seriously proven.[/quote]That is true, it's highly subjective, but what I don't get is how people think Brady is better than Manning. 3 rings...yadda, yadda, yadda. The Pats didn't win today because of Tom Brady, the guy was picked twice.

To demonstrate how little playoff football is about the quarterback, consider how many times Peyton came up short, playing well, but getting little help from his team. All of a sudden, he's playing poor this year, and getting help from his team and now he's got his best chance to reach the big game. Go figure. Maybe the 21 other guys influence the outcome more than the quarterback. Duh.

Manning's body of work over the last eight years is unbelieveable. Brady's is nothing to spit on, but clearly not in the same league. The question shouldn't be who's the best quarterback in the league, it should be who's the 2nd best, Brady or Palmer (or Brees if you want to swing that way)?

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

Brady is the best big game QB that has ever played the game. He has ice in his veins. They showed a shot of Brady when the Pats were down 21-13 and and later showed Rivers when they were marching to tie the score.

Rivers was nervous as $hit with his arms crossed, Brady was calm as can be $ame $hit different day attitude.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;270001]Not neccesarily. One great player can make a world of difference for a team. Look at how much better the Skins defense was with Shawn Springs in the secondary as opposed to how unbelievably awful they were without him. It's a team sport, true, but you can't say that great players can't make a huge difference.[/QUOTE]

I agree,look how much better the colts d has been with sanders back in the lineup

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;269978]Brady is a great QB. No doubt about it. He does not have any stud wr's at all. Brown, Caldwell and Gaffney??? But he does have two very good TE's. I'm very impressed with his poise, pocket pressence and underated arm. But to say he's better than Marino might be stretching it. Your talking about one of the best pure passers of all time. Plus Marino never had any of the very solid defenses that NE always fields. I think Marino was better but not by much.[/QUOTE]

I agree,too early in bradys career to say whos better,but what struck me most about this post was I agree with you on gaffney,the dude couldnt cut in houston or the eagles and he has over 100 yrds recieving today? did gaffney suddnely become allpro?I dont think so,brady is making gaffney look good,I would trade any 3 redskin players the pats wanted for brady

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

Joe Montana at his best was the greatest postseason QB I've ever seen. His '89 postseason may be the greatest ever by a QB:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]min[/COLOR][/URL] W,41-13 | 17 24 241 4 0 | 2 0 0
1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]ram[/COLOR][/URL] W,30-3 | 26 30 262 2 0 | 1 4 0
*1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]den[/COLOR][/URL] W,55-10 | 22 29 297 5 0 | 2 15 0

* - Super Bowl

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;270019]Joe Montana at his best was the greatest postseason QB I've ever seen. His '89 postseason may be the greatest ever by a QB:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]min[/COLOR][/URL] W,41-13 | 17 24 241 4 0 | 2 0 0
1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]ram[/COLOR][/URL] W,30-3 | 26 30 262 2 0 | 1 4 0
*1989 [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den1989.htm"][COLOR=#0000ff]den[/COLOR][/URL] W,55-10 | 22 29 297 5 0 | 2 15 0

* - Super Bowl[/QUOTE]

you have a point,but he was also throwing to the greatest wr of all time!!
plus an underated john taylor,I dont think any of bradys recievers on any of his teams will make the hof

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

rings are over rated winning a super bowl is about the team. not one man wins a whole game for you

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=htownskinfan;270020]you have a point,but he was also throwing to the greatest wr of all time!!
plus an underated john taylor,I dont think any of bradys recievers on any of his teams will make the hof[/quote]
That's a good point, Brady is winning this season with crap WRs. He does have two outstanding TE's and two excellent RBs. Then again Montana didn't exactly have Hall of Fame WRs for his first two Super Bowls either (Rice and Taylor both came to SF later).

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=bigm29;270021]rings are over rated winning a super bowl is about the team. not one man wins a whole game for you[/quote]
When it comes to QBs, I disagree. Very few mediocre QBs have ever made it to the big game, much less won it. Here's hoping Jason Campbell will develop that special quality to lead us to the Promised Land someday.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=GTripp0012;270005]

Manning's body of work over the last eight years is unbelieveable. Brady's is nothing to spit on, but clearly not in the same league. The question shouldn't be who's the best quarterback in the league, it should be who's the 2nd best, Brady or Palmer (or Brees if you want to swing that way)?[/quote]


How is Brady not in the same league as Manning?? Winning 6, 8, hell, even 16 games in a row is impressive, no doubt. But no one remembers the guys that went undefeated and lost in the playoffs, they remember the ones that stuck it out through the toughest games and won the Super Bowl. Three rings in Brady's 6th season is nothing short of incredible. Plus, have you see Manning this postseason? He looks more like Rex Grossman than anyone else that comes to mind. Even if you think it's Brady's team that carries them to the playoffs, you can't look at his stats and not agree that it's Brady who wins the games.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;270023]When it comes to QBs, I disagree. Very few mediocre QBs have ever made it to the big game, much less won it. Here's hoping Jason Campbell will develop that special quality to lead us to the Promised Land someday.[/QUOTE]

true,but some have,just off the top of my head,rypien,dilfer,hasselbach,humphries,doug williams,delholme,warner,kerry collins,chris chandler,neil o donnel,tony eason,david woodley,ferragamo,morton,maybe some others

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=htownskinfan;270027]true,but some have,just off the top of my head,rypien,dilfer,hasselbach,humphries,doug williams,delholme,warner,kerry collins,chris chandler,neil o donnel,tony eason,david woodley,ferragamo,morton,maybe some others[/quote]
Call Mark Rypien what you want, but he WAS NOT a mediocre QB in 1991 - He was the NFC's Offensive Player of the year. Hasselbeck and Chandler were also Pro Bowl QBs the seasons their teams went to the Super Bowl. Warner was the 2nd coming of Joe Montana when he won his. I'll give you that most of the others you named were ordinary even during their Superbowl season, and of that group, only Doug Williams and Dilfer won the big one. My point is that very, very few Super Bowls have been won by teams where the QB wasn't a MAJOR contributor to their success. What is the common on-field denominator through most of this crappy 15 year run by the Redskins? I say a lot of lousy quarterbacking. We can only hope that Jason Campbell will finally be the answer.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=Beemnseven;269987]Man, Belichick is as charmed as Marty is cursed. Did anyone notice how just about every flag in the second half was against the Chargers? It's as if the officials all got together and agreed not to call the Pats for anything.

One thing's for sure -- this was New England's biggest challenge. Now they can set it on cruise control. They beat a better team that made too many boneheaded mistakes, and there's no other team left that stands a chance.

Belichick and Brady have always had the Colts' number. The NFL could change the rules just for Indy and allow the Colts to line up 15 players against 11 Patriots and the Patriots would still somehow win. The ball always seems to bounce their way no matter what.

Unbelieveable.[/quote]


My thoughts exactly! Man you are so right on that. I guess thats why I have such a huge problem with all the ass kissing of the brady bunch. I still get pissed when i think of how they squeeked into their 1st SB. I wonder how different things would be.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

Tom Brady will go down as one of the greatest QBs of all time. He retires next week, he'll be on that ballot 5 years from that day.

If Eli Manning get's a lot slobber knocking, how much more should Tom Brady? If anyone is derserving of the media tripping over themselves, it's this guy. Yes, Peyton is a phenominal QB, but his stats are only meaningful during the regular season it seems. When things get ratchetted up, he's not clutch.

Brady has put up Hall worthy stats, and....and has three Super Rings to boot. And to compare him with Montana and Marino is a bit, well, unfair in a way. Brady has done his thing in the free agency era, with so many different receivers and running backs; Those guys pretty much had the same group of receivers year in and year out.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

wow. I just heard LTs post game comments about why he was so pissed. quote" they showed no class, no class at all. I guess it comes from their headcoach" unquote. I agree. Gotta love it.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;270032]wow. I just heard LTs post game comments about why he was so pissed. quote" they showed no class, no class at all. I guess it comes from their headcoach" unquote. I agree. Gotta love it.[/quote]

Yeah, he was pretty hurt about it. Deion Sanders gave him a lot of shit for saying that too. He was trying to say LT was just mad because his team lost, and the bone head mistakes his team mates did to cost them the game, blah..blah..blah...

I think LT is a classy guy and it was just disrespctful what they did on their home field, and he didn't like it.

I was totally shocked about what he said about Belichek. You betcha that's going to carry over into next season.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

Yeah, I would love to see a part 2 next year in the post season. If Marty still has a job.....

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;270036]Yeah, I would love to see a part 2 next year in the post season. If Marty still has a job.....[/quote]


I think Marty will be around. It's damn hard to fire a guy with that many wins this year, and who the hell are you going to bring in to replace him?

But, boy...this is going to be something if they meet in the playoffs next year.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=LMsexyAO;270026]How is Brady not in the same league as Manning?? Winning 6, 8, hell, even 16 games in a row is impressive, no doubt. But no one remembers the guys that went undefeated and lost in the playoffs, they remember the ones that stuck it out through the toughest games and won the Super Bowl. Three rings in Brady's 6th season is nothing short of incredible. Plus, have you see Manning this postseason? He looks more like Rex Grossman than anyone else that comes to mind. Even if you think it's Brady's team that carries them to the playoffs, you can't look at his stats and not agree that it's Brady who wins the games.[/quote]Brady is certainly the MVP of the Pats, but Manning is the MVP of the entire league. Well, as far as QBs go at least

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

I'm sick of freaking Brady. That little pretty boy bitch is due to get smoked soon. I'm so sick of the Pats. They ARE a team where one good player a team makes. A totally mediocre receiving corps that is made good by Brady.

They might as well just let the Pats start the season during the playoffs. It's almost like they have fifteen guys on defense sometimes. They always show up with a bunch of no-names and somehow win games. This sucks for LT, I really wanted this one for him.

The Pats are the last team left I want to lose.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

There is only ONE QB I'd take over Brady in a long drive, must score situation: Joe Montana. Neither was/is the best passer of their day, but both of them have the greatest intangible: poise.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;270048]I'm sick of freaking Brady. That little pretty boy bitch is due to get smoked soon. I'm so sick of the Pats. They ARE a team where one good player a team makes. A totally mediocre receiving corps that is made good by Brady.

They might as well just let the Pats start the season during the playoffs. It's almost like they have fifteen guys on defense sometimes. They always show up with a bunch of no-names and somehow win games. This sucks for LT, I really wanted this one for him.

The Pats are the last team left I want to lose.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you on this one TMC! I hope Indy knocks the Pats out! I'm going for the Saints.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;270048]I'm sick of freaking Brady. That little pretty boy bitch is due to get smoked soon. I'm so sick of the Pats. They ARE a team where one good player a team makes. A totally mediocre receiving corps that is made good by Brady.

They might as well just let the Pats start the season during the playoffs. It's almost like they have fifteen guys on defense sometimes. They always show up with a bunch of no-names and somehow win games. This sucks for LT, I really wanted this one for him.

The Pats are the last team left I want to lose.[/quote]

It's hard to argue with performance...take Sunday for instance. He played some of the worst football in his career for 3 and a half quarters and then guess which quarter the SOB shows up for. Say what you want to about him but he's d*mn good at what he does.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=squrrelco3;270059]It's hard to argue with performance...take Sunday for instance. He played some of the worst football in his career for 3 and a half quarters and then guess which quarter the SOB shows up for. Say what you want to about him but he's d*mn good at what he does.[/quote]

Exactly. Because the bottom line is that Brady is The Money Man and that's all there is to it. People can hate him and call him a pretty boy and whatnot- personally I chose to admire his accomplishments although he's on another team - but when the game is on the line there's no other quarterback who can touch him.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=Hail2theskins;269960]When Tom brady does any of this... all of dan marino's records, ill say he is better, until then, not a damn chance.

[LIST][*]Most Attempts, Career: [B]8,358[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-ATTleader"][8][/URL][*]Most Completions, Career: [B]4,967[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-COMPleader"][9][/URL] (broken by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre"]Brett Favre[/URL] in 2006)[*]Most Yards Passing, Career: [B]61,361[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-YDSleader"][10][/URL][*]Most Touchdown Passes, Career: [B]420[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-TDleader"][11][/URL][*]Most Passing Yards, Season: [B]5,084[/B] in 1984[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-YDSleader"][10][/URL][*]Most Touchdown Passes, Season: [B]48[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-TDleader"][11][/URL] (since broken by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyton_Manning"]Peyton Manning[/URL] 49)[*]Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: [B]4[/B] in 1984[*]Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: [B]60[/B][*]Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: [B]13[/B] (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98) (since broken by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre"]Brett Favre[/URL] 15)[*]Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: [B]9[/B] (1984-92) (since broken by [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre"]Brett Favre[/URL] 15)[*]Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: [B]21[/B][*]Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: [B]6[/B] in 1984[*]Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: [B]2.03[/B] in 1983 (296-6)[*]Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: [B]5[/B] (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-ATTleader"][8][/URL][*]Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: [B]6[/B] (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-COMPleader"][9][/URL][*]Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: [B]2[/B] (1984, 1986)[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino#_note-TDleader"][11][/URL][*]100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: [B]44[/B] (9/7/86 at San Diego)[*]200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: [B]89[/B] (9/17/89 at New England)[*]300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: [B]157[/B] (9/4/94 vs. New England)[*]Most Points scored, QB: [B]2574[/B][*]Highest TD-INT differential: [B]+168[/B][/LIST][/QUOTE]


I'm not trying to take anything away from Dan Marino, but I'm not playing fantasy football. If I'm the owner of a team, I'm taking Tom Brady. Tom is the one wearing 3 Super Bowl rings. I'm not gonna sit here and say that no one else could have done it with the team he has around him, but Peyton routinely wastes the talent around him, so you have to give Brady a ton of credit. I'm goin with 3 wins, not a whole bunch of passing records. I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=jdlea;270063]I'm not trying to take anything away from Dan Marino, but I'm not playing fantasy football. If I'm the owner of a team, I'm taking Tom Brady. Tom is the one wearing 3 Super Bowl rings. I'm not gonna sit here and say that no one else could have done it with the team he has around him, but Peyton routinely wastes the talent around him, so you have to give Brady a ton of credit. I'm goin with 3 wins, not a whole bunch of passing records. I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.[/quote]

i agree with you 100%. marino and peyton are very good qbs, they are great PASSERS, all they do is pass,pass pass. peyton will probably break marinos PASSING records and that truly is a huge accomplishment but if i'm in the championship game and i can have my pick from marino,manning and brady, i'm taking brady.
now having said all that, peyton manning could take his game to the next level next weekend and i will be rooting for him. i'm a fan of peyton and would love to see him win a superbowl but until he does brady will remain better than him when the big games are on the line.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[QUOTE=squrrelco3;270059]It's hard to argue with performance...take Sunday for instance. He played some of the worst football in his career for 3 and a half quarters and then guess which quarter the SOB shows up for. Say what you want to about him but he's d*mn good at what he does.[/QUOTE]

I believe Tom Brady is a product of BB and his coaching staff. I believe they developed Brady into what he is today. The Patriots' success has to be credited to, by large, to Bill Belichick. Certainly Brady should be in the hall of fame in the future, but I will say this..like Montana, you take Brady out of New England or away from Belichick, and I doubt he'd be as successful anywhere else. That's just me.

On a side note of the hall of fame debate, let's be assured that Tom Brady is a shoe in for the hof, and he rightly should be. People get too caught up in stats and numbers, but when you are leading your team to the Super Bowl almost every single freakin' year, you don't have to have the best stats in the NFL to be considered a future Hall of Famer. With that said, I still hate the New England Patriots and I dislike Brady, the player.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=jdlea;270063]I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.[/quote]Huh? The main job of a quarterback is to pass. If he doesn't pass, he runs. Surely the reason Brady is better than Marino in your opinion isn't because he's a deadly runner. So if Marino is the better passer, why on earth would Brady be the better QB?

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

[quote=squrrelco3;270059]It's hard to argue with performance...take Sunday for instance. He played some of the worst football in his career for 3 and a half quarters and then guess which quarter the SOB shows up for. Say what you want to about him but he's d*mn good at what he does.[/quote]

I don't deny skills, but I cannot even stand to look at his bitch ass. I hate him. I hate him with every part of my soul, almost as much as TO.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

I won't deny though, that it's mainly due to jealousy. Oh, what I WOULDN'T give to have a perennial winner with marginally talented players.

Re: Tom "Iceman" Brady
 

I really use to think Brady was overrated but as time went by I realized he was a great player who carried his offense and had a great defense. IF he goes to another SB and wins it he should be a in the HoF without having to even wait 5 years.