Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;214289]Saunders offense doesn't allow for audibles.



[URL="http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=110527&ran=150031"]ARTICLE: NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins (The Virginian-Pilot - HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com)[/URL][/quote]

Comparing that articles description of Saunders' vaunted offense, and the performance of the Redskins offense last night is a joke, just like this remark:

[I][B]In 35-year-old Mark Brunell, [/B]Saunders saw a quarterback comparable to Green: smart enough to adjust to an attack predicated on reading defenses and precision timing.[/I]

Really? Where was the adjustment to the attack of nine in the box on a halfback dive play? And there are some contradictions, or perhaps just differences in verbage, but how are quarterbacks and receivers supposed to "adjust on the fly" without some type of cummunication? If it's supposed to be strictly based on instincts and timing, Brunell can't handle it at this point in his career. He may be a smart quarterback, but when his instincts tell him, "first option or give up", he's not the man to lead Saunders' complicated offense.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

The offense is going to take a few weeks to really come together.

I think we saw some flashes last night. They'll improve, gotta be a little patient here. Still 15 games to go.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;214315]The offense is going to take a few weeks to really come together.

I think we saw some flashes last night. They'll improve, gotta be a little patient here. Still 15 games to go.[/quote]

Just remember last season, people.

Compare the first half to the second half. I expect the same kind of turnaround, although I think it will be sooner.

In 3-4 weeks, we should be rolling.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;214315]The offense is going to take a few weeks to really come together.

I think we saw some flashes last night. They'll improve, gotta be a little patient here. Still 15 games to go.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. I still think Brunell didn't give our WRs the best chance to get open last night. He was simply too content to make the safest play when a little bit more patience might have paid off. I think that will get fixed. I surely more concerned about a myriad of other issues.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

I have been a supporter of Brunell since JG decided to bring him here, but as I said in one of my post after the first two preseason games, there are some things about his game that is becoming increasingly disturbing. Minnesota sat in a two deep zone most of last night and basically challenged Brunell to beat them with the deep ball knowing full well he's incapable. Granted, he does some things well, like not throwing INT and forcing the ball into coverage. However, there comes a time when the QB has to make plays, and that is espically true when the game is on the line. It would appear to me that when we need a play is when he's not at his best (except for the game in Dallas last year). Another poster mentioned earlier, Brunell has a tendency to stare down his primary and if he's covered he run's toward the sideline and throws the ball away. I can understand sometime your receivers are covered, but this seems to happen all to often with Brunell and I think it's because he has limited faith in his OL and dosen't want to get hit. If that's not the case then we're playing a flawed offense where the receivers can only get open a small persentage of the time. Another poster mentioned the players we brought in during the off-season to help on the outside and so far hasn't made a difference. Brandon Lloyd caught (what) one ball last night? It pains me when I think those guys have been here since the beginning of FA, plenty of time to work in the offense with such little production, and then I look at what McNabb and Stallworth did in their game sunday and they've only been together two weeks. I'm an eternal optomist and won't abandon ship but we must play better on both sides of the ball starting Sunday night. I'm not convinced we will fare any better against Dallas unless we play with a little more sense of urgency.
Pardon my rant fella's I just had to get this off.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;214322]I totally agree. I still think Brunell didn't give our WRs the best chance to get open last night. He was simply too content to make the safest play when a little bit more patience might have paid off. I think that will get fixed. I surely more concerned about a myriad of other issues.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Brunell is a good QB; he doesn't throw a bunch of picks and is smart. However, Brunell is not a great QB; he doesn't MAKE plays, he takes them. He can lead us to a Super Bowl, but everyone else has to bring their A game. I personally would like him to gamble a little bit more, at the risk of throwing an extra pick each game, if that means turning this offense into a dynamic one.

That said, I want to emphasize that he is a good QB, is our only realistic option at QB right now, and that I like him. If we start talking about sitting Brunell, we might as well "bench" this season too.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;214314]
but how are quarterbacks and receivers supposed to "adjust on the fly" without some type of cummunication? If it's supposed to be strictly based on instincts and timing, Brunell can't handle it at this point in his career.[/QUOTE]

Not sure I agree with this. It's kind of a contradiction to say a veteran quarterback can no longer have instincts and timing in his game when this is normally a problem with rookies or other inexperienced quarterbacks. I find it hard to believe that a veteran quarterback, such as Brunell, loses such intangibles just because he's an older player. That is the cerebral part of the game, not physical.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

The Washington Times did a great job summing up Brunell's performance:

It was many of the same problems the 35-year old left-hander experienced last season, when the defense led the Redskins into the second round of the playoffs. Brunell did not throw any interceptions and did not do anything in particular to lose the game, but he did not make any plays that could have been the difference.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;214315]The offense is going to take a few weeks to really come together.

I think we saw some flashes last night. They'll improve, gotta be a little patient here. Still 15 games to go.[/quote]Matty'. Are you my conscious?
[I]- from Finding Nemo[/I]

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Twilbert07;214237]Bottom line is Johnson made plays while Brunell threw away the ball before looking for a second or third receiver. We need a QB who's not afraid to make a play and win the game. This "he's a great manager of the game" is overrated.[/quote]
ur my new best friend...i agree 100 %

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

This loss cannot be dumped on Brunnel. He made plays and kept drives alive including rushing for a conversion. Yes, he threw the ball away (as did Johnson) when necessary. He could have done a Bledsoe?
He also made clutch throws in spite of a porous O-line, and defenders chasing him all over the field. On the final drive he put us in position to tie the game. If we had won the game he would not have been the savior. However, he was solid. If our other squads had been as solid, we would have a W, and we wouldn't be cryin' today.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Gibbs'IllegitChild;214395]ur my new best friend...i agree 100 %[/quote]

Good to have some back up on this. Now the question is: Do you think Campbell would be ready if needed?

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

Campbell isn't the answer. A simple adjustment in attitude is what Brunell needs. He has the physical, emotional, and intelectual abilities to do he justs needs to get coached a little more on it to get some confidence. He can't be scared to try and make a play. The offense may end up being good enough that he can pass up riskier situations but for now we need some plays and the offense isn't good enough to be counted on to get it done on the next play. Take two more steps and give Sanata, Antwaan and Brandon a little extra time to get open.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Twilbert07;214408]Good to have some back up on this. Now the question is: Do you think Campbell would be ready if needed?[/quote]
i doubt that gibbs let the whole preseason/training camp go without prepping campbell...im positive he's ready, and he'll probably be a huge boost for the team...instead of being led by grandpa they will be being led by one of thier peers with something to prove...which by the way is the same reason they should have persued ramsey more than the did

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

k

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=FRPLG;214410]Campbell isn't the answer. A simple adjustment in attitude is what Brunell needs. He has the physical, emotional, and intelectual abilities to do he justs needs to get coached a little more on it to get some confidence. He can't be scared to try and make a play. The offense may end up being good enough that he can pass up riskier situations but for now we need some plays and the offense isn't good enough to be counted on to get it done on the next play. Take two more steps and give Sanata, Antwaan and Brandon a little extra time to get open.[/quote]
ever hear the saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks?

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

brunel did screw up because of the thick sanders playbook

also our D did frustrate us

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Gibbs'IllegitChild;214413]ever hear the saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks?[/QUOTE]

Well he used to run around and be more of a gunslinger so he learned new tricks at some point. One of his main qualities is that he seems very coachable and smart. He should be able to do it.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;214404]If our other squads had been as solid, we would have a W, and we wouldn't be cryin' today.[/QUOTE]

I cannot understand why the offense is getting so much praise and the defense is getting dumped on. I think both squads performed okay, but 2 cents short of a buck.

I hardly think 16 points, 163 passing yards, 1 TD, and Portis and Betts' combined 46 rushing yards is great.

I, for one, am not going to dump on either unit. They need to play better, but they didn't stink up the field.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=skinsguy;214333]Not sure I agree with this. It's kind of a contradiction to say a veteran quarterback can no longer have instincts and timing in his game when this is normally a problem with rookies or other inexperienced quarterbacks. I find it hard to believe that a veteran quarterback, such as Brunell, loses such intangibles just because he's an older player. That is the cerebral part of the game, not physical.[/quote]

Really? So Brett Favre, who is arguably one of the best instinctive quarterbacks to ever play the game, hasn't lost any of the intagibles that made him successful for so many years?

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

Favre is on a bad team, period.

Put him on a good team and he would look much better.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;214420]Favre is on a bad team, period.

Put him on a good team and he would look much better.[/QUOTE]

I agree. On a good team he is a Pro Bowler. He really hasn't lost much physically. He simply has totally nothing around him and has to do it all. Bad system, bad skill playes, no o-line = Favre looking like Jeff George.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;214420]Favre is on a bad team, period.

Put him on a good team and he would look much better.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I love Favre and I think the football world will be worse off when he hangs it up. But to claim a quarterbacks' skills don't deteriorate with age is a little unrealistic.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;214425]Don't get me wrong, I love Favre and I think the football world will be worse off when he hangs it up. But to claim a quarterbacks' skills don't deteriorate with age is a little unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

What skills has he lost?

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=Southpaw;214425]Don't get me wrong, I love Favre and I think the football world will be worse off when he hangs it up. But to claim a quarterbacks' skills don't deteriorate with age is a little unrealistic.[/quote]

Of course he's not the same player he was 5 years ago, but the team around him has more to do with his recent struggles than anything he's "lost".

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

I dont want to see a replica of the first three quarters in Dallas last year. Those were three of the most miserable quarters I've witnessed in all my years of watching pro football. Brunell is going to have to make plays in the passing game for this team to be successful. That includes going through his progression and his second target not always being the check down or dump off. We need more pass plays for completions in the seventeen to twenty one yard range, and not just passes to Moss all the time. We have other receivers, get them involved in the offense.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=FRPLG;214426]What skills has he lost?[/quote]

Absolutely nothing. The 29 picks he threw last season was entirely the fault of the receivers and offensive line.

Seriously, I think that Brett Favre is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game, but he has lost some of the intangibles that have made him so great. There were plenty of seasons where he was the only reason the Packers were any good, but he can't just bomb the ball 50 yards down field, off of his back foot, as accurately as he used to. And he can't zip the ball in the tight spaces he used to. It's party due to the players around him, but you're kidding yourself if you think none of it is him.

The only reason I even brought up Favre was to make the point that a players skills do deteriorate with age. Just like Brunell, who used to be a running gunslinger, five years ago...

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;214446]Absolutely nothing. The 29 picks he threw last season was entirely the fault of the receivers and offensive line.

Seriously, I think that Brett Favre is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game, but he has lost some of the intangibles that have made him so great. There were plenty of seasons where he was the only reason the Packers were any good, but he can't just bomb the ball 50 yards down field, off of his back foot, as accurately as he used to. And he can't zip the ball in the tight spaces he used to. It's party due to the players around him, but you're kidding yourself if you think none of it is him.

The only reason I even brought up Favre was to make the point that a players skills do deteriorate with age. Just like Brunell, who used to be a running gunslinger, five years ago...[/QUOTE]

I am not sure I think it's even possible to lose intangibles. I'd say al ot of it fell on him but I think it is because he has a tendency to try to do more than what he should really do. I n fact I think our QB needs to get just a smidge of that in him and we may win that game last night. As far as physically I think he holds up pretty well when compared to himself over the years. Certainly he might be a bit slower or less agile but not terribly so. He's a wanton make plays type of guy and on a team with no one on the other side of the equation to hold up that side of the play his throw caution to wind approach doesn't work well at all.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;214433]I dont want to see a replica of the first three quarters in Dallas last year. Those were three of the most miserable quarters I've witnessed in all my years of watching pro football. Brunell is going to have to make plays in the passing game for this team to be successful. That includes going through his progression and his second target not always being the check down or dump off. We need more pass plays for completions in the seventeen to twenty one yard range, and not just passes to Moss all the time. We have other receivers, get them involved in the offense.[/QUOTE]

I would kill for an [I]exact[/I] replica of last year's first game against Dallas. I thoroughly enjoyed stealing the game from jubilant Dallas fans at the last minute more so than I enjoyed watching our team pummel them. There's something to be said for stealing something at the last minute and watching smiles turn into tears.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

I'd like to see Jason Campbell get in there, but at the same time appreciate the experience Mark Brunell brings to the team. You guys forget a couple of important factors in last night's game; if Moss holds on to the ball after getting rocked by Sharper in the end zone, this is not a subject we would be discussing. At least not this week. It was a great pass. Also, no interceptions; as opposed to three by Drew Bledsoe, one of which happened at crunch time in their game against the Jags.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;214264]When a team loses the most popular player on the team is always the backup QB. But while there were some poor decisions by Brunell, it wasn't all on him. He's not the one who ran 4 yard routes on 3rd and 6, he's not the one who left the middle of the field wide open on defense, he's not the one with the late hit, or the missed field goal, or the poor special teams coverage. His knee isn't the one that got busted on the first play damaging our nickel defense.

It's just one game. Way, way, way too early to start making changes


[QUOTE]He's not the one who ran 4 yard routes on 3rd and 6, [/QUOTE]

No, but he is the guy who threw a 4 yard pass when we needed 6 because he was afraid he was going to be hit, and nobody was near him, that route is designed to hit a player to the left or to the right so he already has momentum lateraly to run up field and get the first, you cannot hit him stationary like Brunell did, as well Brunell has to know as a QB that there are 2 defenders right behind Portis waiting to pounce on him if he throws it to him, that was an unnessasary throw by a QB who's scared to death of any contact whatsoever, he may as well grounded that ball.

Brunell is not only scared of contact he's afraid of the potential for contact so he anticipates it even when it's not there, and that's why he has happy feet and jumps out of the pocket when no pressure is present.

Do I believe the backup is the most popular guy right now? Not really! I don't have any faith in Collins running the offense, and quite frankly if Campbell can't beat out Brunell at this stage of his developement don't know if he will ever have the ability to win a SB, but we can spend next year finding out the answer to that question, because as someone stated earlier Brunell will have to break a leg before Gibbs yanks him, and even then he'll probably be a game time decision! Not to worry though we will play teams with no pass rush and Brunell will excel when he's sure no one will get close to him.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

Look, we did not run the ball well at all, and that really makes it harder to throw. That being said, Brunnell's lack of efficiency on third down was a killer. The one that really killed me was that play near the end on third down where he couldn't get the ball over the D lineman to Cooley. That forced a punt, which led to the Vikes final score. He's got to find a way to make that play. If he can't, the clamoring for Campbell is going to get louder and louder...

It's not enough to avoid losing the game. He's got to win it for us some of the time. I agree in general that it's way to early to make changes--this is a new and complex offense, after all. But he's gotta step up.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

In Gibbs' 1st yr back it was often said that he tells brunell to get rid of the ball and not force it. The coaches know its a long season, and they probably are telling him to protect himself. I just wish he'd tuck it & go more often, he can still run well enough to get out of bounds w/ a few yards.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[quote=freddyg12;214798]In Gibbs' 1st yr back it was often said that he tells brunell to get rid of the ball and not force it. The coaches know its a long season, and they probably are telling him to protect himself. I just wish he'd tuck it & go more often, he can still run well enough to get out of bounds w/ a few yards.[/quote]

You're right. Throwing it away when there's no one within five yards of you doesn't help much. Run for a few yards then slide.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;214469]I would kill for an [I]exact[/I] replica of last year's first game against Dallas. I thoroughly enjoyed stealing the game from jubilant Dallas fans at the last minute more so than I enjoyed watching our team pummel them. There's something to be said for stealing something at the last minute and watching smiles turn into tears.[/QUOTE]


The last quarter maybe but not the first three, and that's what I was refering too, the first three quarters, pitiful. Now if you would kill for those first three, maybe we should never win another game.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;214855]The last quarter maybe but not the first three, and that's what I was refering too, the first three quarters, pitiful. Now if you would kill for those first three, maybe we should never win another game.[/QUOTE]

Obviously I wouldn't kill just for the first 3 quarters and, yeah, I knew that you were referring to those first 3 quarters as pitiful. But I want the entire game to be replayed. I really liked watching those jubiliant Cowboys fans sulk and cry when we took the game from them in the last few minutes. That was some funny stuff. Whenever I get pissed or upset, I just watch that game and see the expression on fans' faces after Moss scores the second TD. Hilarious stuff my friend.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;214425]Don't get me wrong, I love Favre and I think the football world will be worse off when he hangs it up. But to claim a quarterbacks' skills don't deteriorate with age is a little unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

Physically skills yes...the mental game, no way! Farve had some pretty good receivers to throw to during the Pac's glory years...not taking away from Farve, but I believe when you have confidence in your receivers, it lifts the QB's play that much more. Farve is playing on the offense by himself.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]
Brunell is not only scared of contact he's afraid of the potential for contact so he anticipates it even when it's not there, and that's why he has happy feet and jumps out of the pocket when no pressure is present.[/QUOTE]

#1: That is what QB is supposed to do, anticipate pressure -- it's called awareness.

Secondly, Ramsey was the king of happy dancing feet, so don't even go there.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

His ass should have should have been gone in 2004, last year was a fluke. We went to the playoffs in spite of him last not because of him. Damn you see his old ass legs go out of under him trying to run out of bounds monday. Gibbs for some unknown reason is willing to sink his reputation with this has been. I hope i'm wrong but i dont thinks so. He didnt do anything to lose but he sure as hell didnt do anything to help win the game just one scramble, that why i thought we had in there for was for his great mobility. Damn that arm look weak its really sad,but hey at least he can throw a screen pass or out of bounds.

Re: How Long For Brunell?
 

Brunell still has the arm, he showed it on the last drive. 2004 was the fluke