Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5;207003]Yes, I know. Gibbs won 3 of them.[/QUOTE]

What was Gibbs' preseason record for the three years he won the Superbowl?

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=Daseal;206991]You really think Cooley would say anything else even if the team was terrified that they couldn't do anything right. Nope, not on ESPN Radio that's the home of the Redskins. Not saying anything huge, but you can take players comments for a grain of salt. It's like expecting to get the news from a coach and it not being totally slanted.[/quote]

I dunno. I'd expect Cooley to be a bit more candid though and at least say something like, "Sure, we're a little concerned, but come September 11th, ___________."

Of course it's slanted, but I would think if anyone would put at least a shred of truth in it, it would be him.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

I thought this was interesting:

"People who think preseason football is meaningless don't know anything about football."
--Bill Parcells

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=DrFaust;207007]What was Gibbs' preseason record for the three years he won the Superbowl?[/QUOTE]
16-21 The nine seasons he went to the playoffs.
0-4 for the 82 Super Bowl season.
1-3 for the 91 Super Bowl season.
3-1 (1988) & 3-2 (2004) the two losing seasons he had.

I couldn't find stats for the 83 or 87 Super Bowl years.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=DrFaust;207009]I thought this was interesting:

"People who think preseason football is meaningless don't know anything about football."
--Bill Parcells[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone here is saying that preseason football is meaningless. What's meaningless are the records and the knee-jerk reactions that it causes. From a superficial standpoint, going 0-4 during the preseason is cause for concern. If you delve deeper into the scenarios, situations, play calling, players utilized, etc etc etc etc etc etc, you start to realize that the only meaningful things gained from preseason football in most cases are the case by case player evlauations that are being made.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5;207013]16-21 The nine seasons he went to the playoffs.
0-4 for the 82 Super Bowl season.
1-3 for the 91 Super Bowl season.
3-1 (1988) & 3-2 (2004) the two losing seasons he had.

I couldn't find stats for the 83 or 87 Super Bowl years.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the stats.

It would be nice to have those stats for 83 and 87. Without them, it is hard to say that Gibbs' preseason record doesn't matter. But if you just want to go to the playoffs, then we have nothing to worry about. If you want to win the Superbowl, then there might be reason for concern.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=cpayne5;207015]I don't think anyone here is saying that preseason football is meaningless. What's meaningless are the records and the knee-jerk reactions that it causes. From a superficial standpoint, going 0-4 during the preseason is cause for concern. If you delve deeper into the scenarios, situations, play calling, players utilized, etc etc etc etc etc etc, you start to realize that the only meaningful things gained from preseason football in most cases are the case by case player evlauations that are being made.[/quote]

cpayne speaking the truth as always, preach on brother!

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

My concern is that Gibbs started camp late because 98% of the playes particpated in all offseason OTA's. Some players were at Redskins Park every day. You play as you practice and preseason games are basically practices. There is a very legitime reason for concern, and if you aren't concerned now, you don't know football. As badly as this team is playing now, anyone who dismisses this as preseason vanilla football will be the same ones reading the Post Tuesday morning going, "How did they lose so badly to Minnesota?" You can't just flip a switch, or game plan crisp playing. I agree with the observation that every other NFC East team's first team looks dominant. Each team has gone right down the field and scored. I will point out one very, very positive thing, not too many penalites.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Just for a good example remember how bad Big Ben played last year in preseason and all the int's. he threw. Pits looke terrible last year in preseason and alot of people where saying that Ben was now feeling the effects and speed of the NFL. We all know what the out come of that was. Look at the other teams that have not won a preseason game colts, tenn., buf., pits., kc., and us most all made the playoffs.I think certain teams and coaches approach preseason differently. Yes I have some concerns but until we see them on Sept 11th its just to hard to tell what kind of team we have.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=derrickskins;207022]There is a very legitime reason for concern, and if you aren't concerned now, you don't know football.[/quote]

That is an ignorant statement.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=derrickskins;207022]My concern is that Gibbs started camp late because 98% of the playes particpated in all offseason OTA's. Some players were at Redskins Park every day. You play as you practice and preseason games are basically practices. There is a very legitime reason for concern, and if you aren't concerned now, you don't know football. As badly as this team is playing now, anyone who dismisses this as preseason vanilla football will be the same ones reading the Post Tuesday morning going, "How did they lose so badly to Minnesota?" You can't just flip a switch, or game plan crisp playing. I agree with the observation that every other NFC East team's first team looks dominant. Each team has gone right down the field and scored. I will point out one very, very positive thing, not too many penalites.[/quote]

Well I guess Gibbs and company have no idea what they're doing then. That's basically what you're saying.

We started camp late last year, and we didn't look all that great in the preseason either.

11 wins later how much did that matter?

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5;207015]I don't think anyone here is saying that preseason football is meaningless.[/QUOTE]

You're right. I don't get that feeling. I just thought it was an interesting quote.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Just to clarify, I could care less if the Redskins as a franchise never win another preseason game for the rest of their existence. I put no stock in preseason records because in 3 of the 4 games starters don't even play for over half of the game. My concern comes from what I've seen in terms of execution, and comparing how much rustier the Skins look right now than the rest of the NFC East. I guess it's more the competition that worries me because they look like they are all a step ahead of us right now in being ready for the regular season.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Exactly PSU. My fear doesn't come from lack of wins. It comes from the poor execution we've had before. A more accurate stat would be how did the Redskins starting teams play in those preseason games?

The wins in the preseason are meaningless, the play isn't.

I completely agree with PSU!

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote]
Well I guess Gibbs and company have no idea what they're doing then. That's basically what you're saying.[/quote]

Well I guess gibbs and company are infallible and know everything in a league full of question marks. That's basically what you're saying.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Since I know how much you love boolean logic, this is just for you, Daseal!

GibbsandCO.knowledge > Daseal.knowledge && GibbsandCO.KnowEverything != true

I think it sums it up nicely.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Excellent clarification. The wins don't mean SQUAT in preseason. The records don't mean SQUAT in preseason. How you first unit plays the two series against the opponents first unit is what it's all about and our first unit offense (and last week defense) has me very concerned. There is no good execution of nay play. Aren't vanilla plays easier to execute?

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Excellent clarification. The wins don't mean SQUAT in preseason. The records don't mean SQUAT in preseason. How you first unit plays the two series against the opponents first unit is what it's all about and our first unit offense (and last week defense) has me very concerned. There is no good execution of nay play. Aren't vanilla plays easier to execute?

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;207041]The wins in the preseason are meaningless...[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, unless we're talking about winning the Superbowl. Historically, there is a correllation between winning preseason records and winning Superbowls.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Alright guys, I'm not that concerned yet. I'm not very concerned at all. Does anyone know what our preseason record is the years we won the super bowl. I don't think we ever finished better than 1-3. The offense is going to be spectacular this year. Remember we have yet to see motion, yet to see CP, Moss, Lolyd, Cooley, and Antwan on the field at the same time for more than one play, and also remember that we don't want to reveal anything about our new offense. Just think how hard it is going to be for Minnesota's defense and Dallas's defense to gameplan for our offense. I think we are giving ourselves an advantage when the season starts. Hail to the REDSKINS!!!

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=Daseal;207042]Well I guess gibbs and company are infallible and know everything in a league full of question marks. That's basically what you're saying.[/quote]

Not infallible, but when Gibbs starts camp late, I think he knows what he's doing.

When the coaches don't show anything in the preseason, I think they know what they're doing.

Generally speaking, Gibbs and company know a thing or two about running a NFL team, a hell of a lot more than we do in fact, wouldn't you agree?

From an outsider's point of view, we as fans really don't know jack shit when it comes to what's going on behind the scenes.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

I don't doubt the coaches know a lot more about football than the rest of us, but I seriously doubt the coaches are telling the first team to go out there and look as substandard as possible tonight.

Vince Lombardi once said:
"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21;207078]I don't doubt the coaches know a lot more about football than the rest of us, but I seriously doubt the coaches are telling the first team to go out there and look as substandard as possible tonight.[/quote]

Of course not. I won't deny the overall effort needs to improve. But I'll guarantee that the coaches are looking at these performances from an entirely different angle than we are.

We're so focused on what the team does and at this point that really isn't important. The coaches on the other hand are looking at evaluating individual performances.

This info from Saunders sums it up perfectly

[quote]Sure, he would like to see more production from the starting offense during the preseason, but more important is their performance beginning with the Sept. 11 opener.

"The thing we try to keep in perspective is that everybody -- players, coaches, fans -- wants to win, but the most important part of the preseason games is that it's another practice to develop consistency and technique," Saunders said before practice yesterday at Redskin Park. "A lot of guys improved from the week before, which was encouraging."

The Redskins' first-team offense has played 26 snaps in two games and has yet to score. Its snaps have been limited to prevent injuries, and the game plan has been as plain as possible.

"Most of what we do from a preparation and play-calling standpoint is designed for us to get an evaluation of players doing specific things," Saunders said. "We devised some plays for Mike Sellers so we could see him lead block and see him run the ball, and we did the same for Antwaan Randle El to put him on the perimeter. We were pleased with some of the individual phases of what we're trying to accomplish."

The starters will play more against New England on Saturday night.

"There are things we can fix and things we're looking forward to getting better at the next couple weeks," Saunders said.
[/quote]

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

VERY valid concerns.

I do however agree with Matty's post saying some teams don't like to show anything in the preseason.

Offense concerns:

Saunders' offenses have not been impressive in ANY preseasons:

2005 Chiefs Preseason record: 0-4 18.25 pts./gm.
2005 Chiefs Regular Season record: 10-6 25.19 pts./gm.

2004 Chieifs Preseason record: 1-3 21.75 pts./gm.
2004 Chiefs Regular Season record: 7-9 30.19 pts./gm.

2003 Chiefs Preseason record: 3-2 18.8 pts./gm.
2003 Chiefs Regular Season record: 13-3 30.25 pts./gm.

Normally I wouldn't compare our preseasons to other teams', but this is our new offense.



Defense concerns:

Preseason is not an indicator of how the defense will play in the regular season either. Last year under Gregg Williams our D was better in the regular season. In past years, it was the opposite:

2005 Redskins Preseason: 1-3 18.31 pts. against/gm.
2005 Redskins Regular Season: 10-6 22.00 pts. against/gm.

2004 Redskins Preseason: 3-2 15.00 pts. against/gm.
2004 Redskins Regular Season: 6-10 13.60 pts. against/gm.

2003 Redskins Preseason: 1-3 23.25 pts. against/gm.
2003 Redskins Regular Season: 5-11 15.00 pts. against/gm.





So,what's my point for these calculations?

We have GREAT coaches running things. They know what they're doing. KC panicked when they lost Holmes and look what Saunders' offense did for Larry Johnson and the team. We MAY be without Portis for one week, probably not though. Our offensive line is all here unlike last year. Jason Campbell looks like he'll be a great NFL QB. He was handled properly instead of turning into another Alex Smith or Joey Harrington, being thrown into the fire right away and failing miserably...probably derailing their career from what it could have been.

We improved our defense in the offseason after being one of the top defenses last year. Carter and Arch will be huge.

Even last year, our defense was dismantled by injuries and Williams plugged in unknown guys to most people and they still outperformed the other teams' starters. Springs will be back. Griffin will be back. The Vince Lombardi tropy will be back in Gibbs' hands.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Our team has not shown us a great deal to be excited about this preseason. And you certainly have the right to be concerned and pull out your worry beads.

However, this appears to be Coach Gibbs style in the preseason. No team deserves to be crowned the class of the division until they earn that title on the gridiron. I'm holding off on the coronation ceremony, but I'm optimistically checking on good seating for that event.

There is a lot of football yet to be played, injury situations to addressed, game planning to be established, etc.. I would caution against drawing bold conclusions about the upcoming season based on the preseaon play. I don't look at this as 'Tune Up Time" but rather as "Audition Time". We can all relax and laugh at some of the poor audtions and appreciate the players with talent.

Cheers!

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21;207078]I don't doubt the coaches know a lot more about football than the rest of us, but I seriously doubt the coaches are telling the first team to go out there and look as substandard as possible tonight.[/quote]

I also seriously doubt Saunders will run every play from the I-formation without any motion all year and that Randel El will suddenly be banned from running trick plays.

:)

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

How many of you were beating your chests and proclaiming "destination: Super Bowl" after the Spurrier beat down of San Fransisco a few years back in the preseason?? Be honest. How much did that game "mean"? We LOOKED great. Tell me about that superbowl season, there sparky.
It's preseason. end of friggin' story. Talk to me week 5.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=dblanch66;207120]How many of you were beating your chests and proclaiming "destination: Super Bowl" after the Spurrier beat down of San Fransisco a few years back in the preseason?? Be honest. How much did that game "mean"? We LOOKED great. Tell me about that superbowl season, there sparky.
It's preseason. end of friggin' story. Talk to me week 5.[/quote]

Not me! :D

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[QUOTE=Buster;207108]
Saunders' offenses have not been impressive in ANY preseasons:

2005 Chiefs Preseason record: 0-4 18.25 pts./gm.
2005 Chiefs Regular Season record: 10-6 25.19 pts./gm.

2004 Chieifs Preseason record: 1-3 21.75 pts./gm.
2004 Chiefs Regular Season record: 7-9 30.19 pts./gm.

2003 Chiefs Preseason record: 3-2 18.8 pts./gm.
2003 Chiefs Regular Season record: 13-3 30.25 pts./gm.



Williams Defense:

2005 Redskins Preseason: 1-3 18.31 pts. against/gm.
2005 Redskins Regular Season: 10-6 22.00 pts. against/gm.

2004 Redskins Preseason: 3-2 15.00 pts. against/gm.
2004 Redskins Regular Season: 6-10 13.60 pts. against/gm.

2003 Redskins Preseason: 1-3 23.25 pts. against/gm.
2003 Redskins Regular Season: 5-11 15.00 pts. against/gm.


[/QUOTE]



The above is simply another indicator why this is the best talk forum on the planet, heck, in the galaxy, greater heck, the entire Universe!

This Totally ROCKS !

Not to mention, PS proves nothing regarding RS results!

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=backrow;207143]The above is simply another indicator why this is the best talk forum on the planet, heck, in the galaxy, greater heck, the entire Universe!

This Totally ROCKS !

Not to mention, PS proves nothing regarding RS results![/quote]

Thanks.

Either that or it just confirms that I'm a numbers geek. Not just sports stats, numbers for ANYTHING...sports, economics, hot dog eating projections...

Of course, being an accountant who does some statistic work as part of my job will do that.

Yeah, we are a lot more intellectual than the NY Giants forum! :D

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Buster,

That above post was awesome. One of the best I have seen in quite some time. It's always nice when people back up their opinions with good analysis and facts. Great, great job.

I nominate Buster as poster of the week.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Let's also remember that what's vanilla for one team is not vanilla for another. Saunders schemes are predicated on motion and shifts, other teams might not be, hence the reason for their success in preseason.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;207211]Buster,

That above post was awesome. One of the best I have seen in quite some time. It's always nice when people back up their opinions with good analysis and facts. Great, great job.

I nominate Buster as poster of the week.[/quote]


:cheeky-sm:embarrass

Wow...didn't expect it to go over like this.

All I did was do what I always do...

We have plenty of great minds here.

I give permission for my post to be used on any Giants, Eagles or Cowboys forums! :cheeky-sm

Whatever I can do to stop the panic, I'll do. The team will be good this year. Besides, look at all of our NFC East opponents, our "problems" are midgets compared to theirs:

Dallas: Parcells is the coach, Owens is there and already misbehaving, Bledsoe is playing QB (I'll take Brunell over him EVERY day), there's already a QB mutiny brewing, they have no dominant RB like we do (and the Giants), drug problems AGAIN, they have a hot-headed kicker who's even WORSE on kickoffs than John Hall, their stadium's roof STILL hasn't been finished, PLUS they have to play the Redskins TWICE this season.

New York: Manning is not as good as advertised, Arrington is pulling his stunts with them now, they signed 6 or 7 guys for their secondary in the offseason and none of them are really that good, besides Burress they have an underacheiving WR group (remember how Toomer was supposed to be some incredible receiver, Tim Carter can't stay healthy), PLUS they have to play the Redskins TWICE this season.

Philadelphia: Santa Claus will never visit them again, no healthy and capable RBs, they have probably the weakest WRs in all of the NFL, even Houston's WRs are worlds ahead of the Eagles', big names on defense but for some reason they can't play defense as a team very well (their D gave up 78 more points than the offense scored last year), injury-prone QB, Jeff Garcia is their backup QB, an aging kicker who is now a below-average kicker (last year he made 72.7% of his FGs, league average is 81.3%...even John Hall made 85.7% of his FGs last year), Ed Rendell is their biggest fan when he's not in the western half of the state (that's a kiss of death), their fans are the worst in the NFL, they couldn't win ANY division games last year and may not again this year, PLUS they have to play the Redskins TWICE this season.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

Sam Madison and company helped revamp their defense which already has an impressive DLINE with depth for the future. They are a better team this year simply for cutting all the dead weight. But they cant match up with our offense at all .

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=MightyJoeGibbs;207273]Sam Madison and company helped revamp their defense which already has an impressive DLINE with depth for the future. They are a better team this year simply for cutting all the dead weight. But they cant match up with our offense at all .[/quote]

Who can?

Not even Pittsburgh or Chicago, I'd bet.

[IMG]http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/redskins/Memories/funbunch2.jpg[/IMG] ALL OVER AGAIN.

Re: Why I feel there is reason for concern:
 

[quote=MightyJoeGibbs;207273]Sam Madison and company helped revamp their defense which already has an impressive DLINE with depth for the future. They are a better team this year simply for cutting all the dead weight. But they cant match up with our offense at all .[/quote]

Actually, Madison has been TANKING for them lately.