That's just my point Ramseyfan. Gibbs never promised us that things were going to be marvelous this first year...we all kind of bought into that and so did the media. We're all very frustrated because we're going through another losing season and some of us younger fans that have only heard the stories (not saying you but fans younger than you) of Gibbs' greatness and the rest of us who were old enough to see it for ourselves are even more frustrated. So, right now we're taking our frustrations out on something...alot of us the coach, others of us the players. Yes both are to blame for our losing record this year...but like Matty said, maybe we are being too impaitent....after all I believe to have something that is going to last..it takes time to build it. When Gibbs and co talk about the long haul...I don't believe they were thinking in terms of one season. My frame of mind isn't to put Gibbs on a pedistal, but to look at the overall picture.

Fair enough Skinsguy.

Both of us agree that the players and the coaches deserve criticism. I don't think either one of us doubts Gibbs abilities. I think both of us are very frustrated with this whole situation even though we both know that it's Gibbs' first season back.

It's just so frustrating to watch my team lose week in and week out and people laugh at me when I say I love the 'Skins. I want to decapitate people who talk laugh at the 'Skins. I just hope Gibbs gets this ship righted sooner rather than later. And while I don't expect to win the next 6 games, I want to see some improvement.

Believe me Ramseyfan I know exactly what you are saying!!! I have this guy that I talk football with in my calc class at the university and everyday we talk football. He is a diehard Cowboys' fan and of course me a Redskins fan. It sucks having to face him every Monday after a Redskins loss, because I have to hear his mouth. The only thing that makes it bareable is that his Cowboys suck and have been losing by a ton of points.

I had optimism, but I didn't expect a winning record in year one. It was the development of a system that works and a disciplined team I was looking for. Both accounts we're sorely missing right now. He has 38+ games to prove himself in this era, as far as Im concenred.

I almost turned off the TV today... (but its like a freak train wreck, you just can't look away)... its painful to watch, i mean, i didn't expect a win, but I expected to see a little bit more than 35 hitch plays...

Players deserve the blame for the penalties, the drops, lack of good execution in general.....horrible, just horrible!
Gibbs deserves the blame for calling the game like a man who is so afraid of his QB making a mistake, that he would not even give him a chance. This is not the Gibbs of old. Yeah, he was always conservative, but how many times can you run that WR screen play??? I think we threw downfield (more than 10-15 yards) MAYBE 3 times??? That's pathetic!! Maybe some of the blame goes on Ramsey, for checking down if the [I]one [/I] deep WR wasn't open, but most of the time, it seemed like the short passes were the plan.
Didn't we hear about how in the offseason, Gibbs studied the top 5 rushing and passing offenses from last year, and we assumed he would "borrow" some ideas from them? I guess not. The strong armed QB goes in, and he doesn't let him use it.......it was nice to actually see a long pass overthrown instead of underthrown and potentially picked off, even if we couldn't haul it in. Maybe with some more work together, Ramsey and the WR's will get more in sync and they will complete one, and give Gibbs the confidence to call more of them.....I don't know....
Bottom line: I didn't expect them to win, but I had hope and I did expect them to keep it somewhat close (within 10 pts). The blame goes on ALL of them.

Nobody on the redskins side of the field is executing right now. The play calling is lousy, they players are undisciplined and error prone. This is the same thing that happened last year. Hopefully Gibbs can get his head around the NFL in 2004 and the players can find it within themselves to play discipined football but I'm not holding my breath.

This team has become almost unwatchable.

I'm more than sure that Coach Gibbs will turn things around, but I think he is going to have to upgrade a few positions before this can happen.

The biggest thing is having paitence, and knowning that this system DOES work in the NFL, as opposed to the previous offense that has never been proven to work in the NFL, I have all the confidence in the world.

Lord, how I wished that there was a site where you younger 'Skins fans could see how Joe Gibbs' system works when the right people are in there (some video archive.) I still have the 91' Super Bowl on tape, but I have no way of transferring it to my computer right now.

skinsguy, it worked in the 80s with slower defenses and when the skins have an advantage of a rich owner and no salary cap... not that i don't think he can get it done... but things are a bit different now.

[QUOTE=That Guy]skinsguy, it worked in the 80s with slower defenses and when the skins have an advantage of a rich owner and no salary cap... not that i don't think he can get it done... but things are a bit different now.[/QUOTE]
No offense, but I think that's a cop out. Most of Gibbs' old teams were made up of late picks, and other "finds". Blue collar players that became stars through their play...much like today's Patriots, so it wasn't like they were the Yankees buying up all the most talent....although it was easier to keep them around. But winning teams usually stick together better, even nowadays with the salary cap and all, because the players want to be there.

As for the defenses, yeah, they may have been slower, but still, they went against the Giants with LT (and wasn't Belicheck the D coord?), Buddy Ryan's D, etc. Are today's defenses that much better? I don't think so...just different. Plus, he has one of the best "modern NFL" defensive minds right there with him. Don't you think he bounces his ideas off Williams to see what he would do to defend them, and adjust from there?

So yeah, of course he needs to adjust to the way teams are playing now, and it seems tougher and is taking longer than expected, but if anyone can do it, it's Gibbs.

[quote=skinsrock]Don't you think he bounces his ideas off Williams to see what he would do to defend them, and adjust from there?[/quote]

if he is, he's not listening to whatever williams is saying right now :(

[QUOTE=That Guy]if he is, he's not listening to whatever williams is saying right now :([/QUOTE]
Yeah, it sure seems like it... :doh:

[QUOTE=That Guy]skinsguy, it worked in the 80s with slower defenses and when the skins have an advantage of a rich owner and no salary cap... not that i don't think he can get it done... but things are a bit different now.[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure I buy into your opinion that the 80's defenses were slower than what we have now. I mean, I am old enough to remember watching football and old enough to understand what was going on back in that decade, and I really don't see much difference in speed, if any.

As far as the salary cap thing goes, this actually works in the favor of Gibbs and he talked about how he wished he had this back in his first tenure with the team; I think if anything the salary cap has been one change that Gibbs as favored.

[QUOTE=SkinsRock] Don't you think he bounces his ideas off Williams to see what he would do to defend them, and adjust from there?
[/QUOTE]

I doubt he has to; you gotta remember that Gibbs and Co have been at this for quite a long time regardless of the 12 year hiatus and if Williams and Co coudn't figure it out when he was Head Coach, I doubt he'd know anything more than what the formations are representing such as pass d or run d.

From reading around the internet.....they said Gibbs appears afraid to throw the ball downfield........WHY??? What have we got to lose????????? We are certainly out of the playoff picture.......so come on Coach Gibbs, let's just throw it long and see what happens..........