Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

IMO after we lost Champ and Mr. Green our Dbacks configuration seems to be the area that FO has tinkered with the most ignoring other areas of need. That is until last year when the FO went after the WR upgrade. If we could just keep Horton, Los, LL and Hall we could be set for some time.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

If giving Hall a big deal leads to Rogers being traded then it's a huge mistake in my opinion. Hall is on his 3rd team for a reason...Rogers is a better player. I would like to have Hall but not instead of Rogers.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=celts32;526836]If giving Hall a big deal leads to Rogers being traded then it's a huge mistake in my opinion. Hall is on his 3rd team for a reason...Rogers is a better player. I would like to have Hall but not instead of Rogers.[/quote]

- First, I think the best situation for the team would be to keep both Hall and Rogers. Hall gets a new deal b/c we acquired him midseason, his contract is up and played very well while he was here. Besides, he's 25, very talented, and his character issues seem to have gone away after being cut by the Raiders.

- Rogers has one more year left in his contract, and while he played well this season, I don't think he's due a new deal. I think it would benefit Rogers to stay one more year to put up big numbers and then go into free agency (I know there's the whole deal with the possible uncapped year). I don't think he should try to leave the team, unless another team that's willing to trade for him would give him a new contract.

- If one of them has to go, the best situation would be for Rogers to be traded. We could have as CBs Hall, Springs, FA CB as insurance for Springs, and either Smoot/Tryon or Rookie DB/Tryon. At the least, we could get a draft pick out of a Rogers trade, whereas if Hall were to leave, we would not get any type of compensation.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;526861]- If one of them has to go, the best situation would be for Rogers to be traded. We could have as CBs Hall, Springs, FA CB as insurance for Springs, and either Smoot/Tryon or Rookie DB/Tryon. At the least, we could get a draft pick out of a Rogers trade, whereas if Hall were to leave, we would not get any type of compensation.[/quote]I thought you made a good point in another thread about how Rogers and Hall seem to complement each other in that: you don't want to create a situation where Hall is matched up in man to man defense on a team's first or second receiver whom he just cannot cover. Rogers takes the number one guy, still draws a lot of the throws (more teams targeted their No. 1 WR against the Redskins than any other team), and against [I]most[/I] oponents, Hall is an asset, not a weakness.

Taking Rogers out of the equation -- even if you leave Springs in -- turns Hall from a strength into a weakness. Springs, at this point in his career, can not go man to man to shut down anyones number one receiver, so Hall ends up as the number one corner once Rogers is traded, and in all likelyhood we see the Atlanta/Oakland Hall instead of the guy we had here for seven games.

They'd make an interesting tandem for sure, but if it's a cost effective approach we are looking for, the unquestionably correct decision is to resign Rogers (likely around midseason) and just let Hall walk.

Luckily though, I think the most likely outcome is that Hall and Rogers become our long term CB tandem. I just hope we don't pay Hall No. 1 money in the process, being that he is clearly not, and the rest of the NFL knows that as well.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GTripp0012;526897]I thought you made a good point in another thread about how Rogers and Hall seem to complement each other in that: you don't want to create a situation where Hall is matched up in man to man defense on a team's first or second receiver whom he just cannot cover. Rogers takes the number one guy, still draws a lot of the throws (more teams targeted their No. 1 WR against the Redskins than any other team), and against [I]most[/I] oponents, Hall is an asset, not a weakness.

Taking Rogers out of the equation -- even if you leave Springs in -- turns Hall from a strength into a weakness. Springs, at this point in his career, can not go man to man to shut down anyones number one receiver, so Hall ends up as the number one corner once Rogers is traded, and in all likelyhood we see the Atlanta/Oakland Hall instead of the guy we had here for seven games.

They'd make an interesting tandem for sure, but if it's a cost effective approach we are looking for, the unquestionably correct decision is to resign Rogers (likely around midseason) and just let Hall walk.

Luckily though, I think the most likely outcome is that Hall and Rogers become our long term CB tandem. I just hope we don't pay Hall No. 1 money in the process, being that he is clearly not, and the rest of the NFL knows that as well.[/quote]

I think having either Hall or Rogers leave would be a bad situation for the team. And I don't understand why people are so hell bent on Hall leaving or Rogers leaving, as you said the best situation would be to have both of them. I really hope they both stay, but I have the feeling that Rogers is going to want to jump ship. Although, if Rogers stays and has a career season, then by the end of next season we may find ourselves not being able to afford both Hall and Rogers. But at the least we should try to keep them both for next season.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;526861]- First, I think the best situation for the team would be to keep both Hall and Rogers. Hall gets a new deal b/c we acquired him midseason, his contract is up and played very well while he was here. Besides, he's 25, very talented, and his character issues seem to have gone away after being cut by the Raiders.

- Rogers has one more year left in his contract, and while he played well this season, I don't think he's due a new deal. I think it would benefit Rogers to stay one more year to put up big numbers and then go into free agency (I know there's the whole deal with the possible uncapped year). I don't think he should try to leave the team, unless another team that's willing to trade for him would give him a new contract.

- If one of them has to go, the best situation would be for Rogers to be traded. We could have as CBs Hall, Springs, FA CB as insurance for Springs, and either Smoot/Tryon or Rookie DB/Tryon. At the least, we could get a draft pick out of a Rogers trade, whereas if Hall were to leave, we would not get any type of compensation.[/quote]

I would love to have them both...but if the redskins are making a choice to only give one of them a long term deal then I think it should be Rogers following next season. I also do not think Hall is worth the kind of deal that is being rumored. He does not deserve to be paid as one of the top CB's in the league after the season he had last year.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=celts32;526924]I would love to have them both...but if the redskins are making a choice to only give one of them a long term deal then I think it should be Rogers following next season. I also do not think Hall is worth the kind of deal that is being rumored. He does not deserve to be paid as one of the top CB's in the league after the season he had last year.[/quote]One thing to consider is age. Hall is only 25 and Rogers is 27. Rogers is probably better in man coverage, but with his stone hands, he almost never makes plays when they present themselves. Hall has demonstrated the ability to make a big INT. I'd love to keep both, but given the choice, I believe that I'd take Hall.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

Thought it might be interesting if we all addressed what we would LIKE to do at the DB positions this year. Who should we keep? Who should we let go, who should we trade?

I figured I would start off.

[B][U]CB DeAngelo Hall.[/U][/B] We need to sign him to an extension ASAP. Something in the neighborhood of 6 years, 45M, 15M garaunteed.

[B][U]CB Carlos Rogers.[/U][/B] Under no circumstances should we trade him. We should keep him and see how he plays in 2009. If he plays well, sign him to a deal in 2010 similar to what we give Hall.

[B][U]CB Fred Smoot.[/U][/B] We definitely cant cut him, but he's not a starting caliber-guy anymore. We should restructure/extend his contract in a manner similar to what we did the other day with ARE and Carter... something to lower his 2009 cap hit.

[B][U]CB Shawn Springs.[/U][/B] Under no circumstances should we pay him 8.5M in 2009. Thats way too much for a guy with his history of missing games. I would talk to him about signing an extension that paid him 20M with 10M garaunteed over the next 4 years, but thats about it. If he does stay, I would move him to free safety immediately...

[B][U]Laron Landry.[/U][/B] I would do whatever I could to move him back to Strong Safety in 2009. If we're unable to find a suitable FS on our roster, in free agency, or in the draft, I would keep him at FS, but that would be a last resort measure. Landry is far too disruptive when near the line of scrimmage to waste at FS.

[B][U]Chris Horton.[/U][/B] He's a great SS and one of the surprises of the 2008 season, but he'll never be as much of a consistent playmaker at SS as Landry is right now. If he stays on the Skins in 2009, it will be as a backup to LL and in Cobra packages. I think we should consider trading Horton for a 2nd rounder player but nothing less. Hes a great insurance policy to have behind Landry.

[B][U]Kareem Moore.[/U][/B] He showed tremendous promise in camp, but got injured and fell behind fellow rookie Chris Horton on the depth Chart. While Horton is a natural SS who can only play SS, Moore is a natural FS who (ideally) could start at FS for the Skins in 2009. He may not be ready though, which is why I would consider keeping Springs around for a bit. If we let go of Springs, we should bring in a value FA to compete with Moore for the spot there.

[B][U]2009 Starting Lineup[/U][/B]
CB1: Hall
CB2: Rogers
FS: Springs/Moore/FA
SS: Landry

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

Good post BHA. As good as Landry is at FS, I would like to see him back at SS where he would be physically more imposing. Moore has talent and could hopefully take over the FS spot, unless we keep Rogers, Hall, and Springs. Then Springs could either take over that spot or play where he's needed. As much as Blache plays the cobra, Horton would still serve us well. If things play out right, we could have the best defensive backfield in the league. Add a pass rush to this scenario and our TO's on defense skyrocket.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=tryfuhl;526761]5th too didn't they?[/quote]

yep!

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=celts32;526924]I would love to have them both...but if the redskins are making a choice to only give one of them a long term deal then I think it should be Rogers following next season. I also do not think Hall is worth the kind of deal that is being rumored. He does not deserve to be paid as one of the top CB's in the league after the season he had last year.[/quote]

Why Rogers and not Hall? Is Hall that terrible? Did you see him play? I just don't get why people are so anti-Hall. You think we were trying to pick between Smoot and Rogers.

I think any reasonable person would first and foremost want to have both Rogers and Hall back. Rogers is good with coverage, but he doesn't get the INTs. Hall gets the picks. We b!tch and whine about having a good defense, but not having many sacks. Why aren't we complaining about having a good defense and not having that many picks??

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

No way would I trade Horton.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[I]Laron Landry. I would do whatever I could to move him back to Strong Safety in 2009. If we're unable to find a suitable FS on our roster, in free agency, or in the draft, I would keep him at FS, but that would be a last resort measure. Landry is far too disruptive when near the line of scrimmage to waste at FS.

Chris Horton. He's a great SS and one of the surprises of the 2008 season, but he'll never be as much of a consistent playmaker at SS as Landry is right now. If he stays on the Skins in 2009, it will be as a backup to LL and in Cobra packages. I think we should consider trading Horton for a 2nd rounder player but nothing less. Hes a great insurance policy to have behind Landry.

Kareem Moore. He showed tremendous promise in camp, but got injured and fell behind fellow rookie Chris Horton on the depth Chart. While Horton is a natural SS who can only play SS, Moore is a natural FS who (ideally) could start at FS for the Skins in 2009. He may not be ready though, which is why I would consider keeping Springs around for a bit. If we let go of Springs, we should bring in a value FA to compete with Moore for the spot there.
[/I]

I have to disagree on Landry at least at this point. Landry is a surprisingly poor tackler in my opinion... Horton at least today appears to be the surer tackler but lacks coverage skills. Meanwhile Landry showed phenomenal coverage skills in college and I'm pretty convinced he was ailing much of last year or would have come up w/ more defended passes and INTs (didn't have the speed). Don't forget Laron was a FS @ LSU and by his senior year opposing QBs rarely even risked a bomb because of him... I'm still hoping we see that kind of shutdown play from him @ FS.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;526938]Thought it might be interesting if we all addressed what we would LIKE to do at the DB positions this year. Who should we keep? Who should we let go, who should we trade?

I figured I would start off.

[B][U]CB DeAngelo Hall.[/U][/B] We need to sign him to an extension ASAP. Something in the neighborhood of 6 years, 45M, 15M garaunteed.

[B][U]CB Carlos Rogers.[/U][/B] Under no circumstances should we trade him. We should keep him and see how he plays in 2009. If he plays well, sign him to a deal in 2010 similar to what we give Hall.

[B][U]CB Fred Smoot.[/U][/B] We definitely cant cut him, but he's not a starting caliber-guy anymore. We should restructure/extend his contract in a manner similar to what we did the other day with ARE and Carter... something to lower his 2009 cap hit.

[B][U]CB Shawn Springs.[/U][/B] Under no circumstances should we pay him 8.5M in 2009. Thats way too much for a guy with his history of missing games. I would talk to him about signing an extension that paid him 20M with 10M garaunteed over the next 4 years, but thats about it. If he does stay, I would move him to free safety immediately...

[B][U]Laron Landry.[/U][/B] I would do whatever I could to move him back to Strong Safety in 2009. If we're unable to find a suitable FS on our roster, in free agency, or in the draft, I would keep him at FS, but that would be a last resort measure. Landry is far too disruptive when near the line of scrimmage to waste at FS.

[B][U]Chris Horton.[/U][/B] He's a great SS and one of the surprises of the 2008 season, but he'll never be as much of a consistent playmaker at SS as Landry is right now. If he stays on the Skins in 2009, it will be as a backup to LL and in Cobra packages. I think we should consider trading Horton for a 2nd rounder player but nothing less. Hes a great insurance policy to have behind Landry.

[B][U]Kareem Moore.[/U][/B] He showed tremendous promise in camp, but got injured and fell behind fellow rookie Chris Horton on the depth Chart. While Horton is a natural SS who can only play SS, Moore is a natural FS who (ideally) could start at FS for the Skins in 2009. He may not be ready though, which is why I would consider keeping Springs around for a bit. If we let go of Springs, we should bring in a value FA to compete with Moore for the spot there.

[B][U]2009 Starting Lineup[/U][/B]
CB1: Hall
CB2: Rogers
FS: Springs/Moore/FA
SS: Landry[/quote]

where is doughty?! you omitted one key part of the secondary. he is a starting caliber strong safety (barely but he is!) and i don't know if he would beat out horton for the starting spot but he would be one of the best backup safeties in the league. and about the rest of the post i would would not count on springs being a full-time starter at any position(due to the fact that his bones are made of glass) and i dont think that moore is anywhere near being starter too. and yes landry is better at strong safety than free safety but the skins don't have a better option at free safety than landry and i don't think it would be feasible to sign or draft a starting caliber safety when the skins have so many other more pressing needs(i.e. ol, dl, lb).

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

I want them to sign Hall and cut Springs