Re: Kobe a Wizard?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;319846]they can still say we wont trade you[/QUOTE]

And he could still see to it that they lose 80 games next year and play to half empty arenas the last half of the year.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

As a diehard Lakers fan I am pissed off at Kobe. I mean how self centered can he be? I agree that the Lakers have made some bad moves the last few years but come on. If Kobe had any class he would shut the F up and help the Lakers rebuild. I could never picture Magic Johnson pulling this crap. Does he forget that the Lakers supported his ass through all the Colorado BS? Our that they dumped Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Paton and others to rebuild around him? Did he really think the Lakers would be champs again over night? For him to rip the organization and it's players to two strangers in a parking lot is just flabbergasting to me. At this point I almost don’t care if he gets traded. Even though I will have to change my licens plate from 8 LAKERS to HATE 24. F that little spoiled bit-h! Where does he think he can go and win a ring next year? N.Y,Philly? lol
All that being said I think this will die down and Kobe will be wearing a Lakers uniform come Oct. There really aren't many places he can go.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I will go on record to say that Kobe will never win another championship again.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I agree that although Kobe is a better all around player than Gil, Gil means so much more to the organization and the city and is truly my favorite player in the league. Can you see Kobe playing in the summer league games at Barry Farms in SE?

As far as Marion for Antawn? Their salaries are pretty similar and if it were a straight swap, I'd do it in a second. I think Antawn is great, but Marion gives you all the intangibles that the Wizards are missing with his hustle, lock-down D, and rebounding, and he's a few years younger (Antawn is a better scorer). Either way, I can't see that happening.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;319844]What would be wrong with Jamison for Marion? I think Marion is a far superior player.[/QUOTE]

Because of the intangibles. The salaries match pretty evenly and talent-wise yes Marion is superior. But just about every NBA guy I've talked to says Jamison, a very talented player lest we forget, is the kind of guy every coach wants. He has a calming effect on teammates, is a great locker room leader, and a great communicator. A lot of people think he'll be a great coach himself one day. Plus we saw how the Wizards swooned for a spell when he went down during the season.

Marion, on the other hand, is a bit of a malcontent. He's just not getting the pub that Kobe is getting at the moment. Marion wants to be the man and he doesn't feel he's getting that love in Phoenix.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;319893]Because of the intangibles. The salaries match pretty evenly and talent-wise yes Marion is superior. But just about every NBA guy I've talked to says Jamison, a very talented player lest we forget, is the kind of guy every coach wants. He has a calming effect on teammates, is a great locker room leader, and a great communicator. A lot of people think he'll be a great coach himself one day. Plus we saw how the Wizards swooned for a spell when he went down during the season.

Marion, on the other hand, is a bit of a malcontent. He's just not getting the pub that Kobe is getting at the moment. Marion wants to be the man and he doesn't feel he's getting that love in Phoenix.[/QUOTE]

I considered this after I posted because I remembered that Jamison is the captain of the team. However, I am biased because Marion is one of my favorite players in the league.

As for Marion being a malcontent; I would agree that he is in Phoenix. I think he realizes how good he is and can be and is just frustrated that the Suns barely utilize him. I think it would be a mistake for the Suns to trade him for Jamison. I don't think they need another "character guy" I think they need someone like the Matrix who can score up to 25 a game barely touching the ball. I would prefer Marion because he could be much more productive here than Jamison has been and is also, IMO, a better rebounder and defender. While I'm not trying to undermine the importance of a guy like Jamison, I don't think he produces enough ON the floor to keep if you can get a guy like Marion for him.

Also, if we could get them to eat either Thomas or Haywood, that'd be nice, cause one of them has gotta go.

Finally, I think it's funny that this is an option because I've made this trade in every single basketball franchise I run with the Wizards on 2K7.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319847]I totally disagree. He hasn't done squat since Shaq left, except score 81 points. Which, IMO, is indicative of his selfish play. The best player in the league right now is Duncan -- hands down.[/quote]

Ghetto, the NBA hasn't seen a dominant player like Kobe since MJ. Period.

He is head and shoulders above the rest of the NBA right now. Yes, King James included.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319915]Ghetto, the NBA hasn't seen a dominant player like Kobe since MJ. Period.

He is head and shoulders above the rest of the NBA right now. Yes, King James included.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think Kobe is so dominant? Would you take Kobe over Duncan? Sure, if Kobe wants to score, nobody can really stop him. However, the same can be said of AI.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319919]Why do you think Kobe is so dominant? Would you take Kobe over Duncan? Sure, if Kobe wants to score, nobody can really stop him. However, the same can be said of AI.[/quote]

I think if you limit Kobe's prowess to just scoring, then yes, you can easily measure him with about a half dozen or so players in the NBA.

But I would contend, defensely, he's in the top 10 or so and offensively he's, without a doubt, the most prolific scorer since MJ. More than that, he can change the tempo of the game and can single handedly and consistently, I might add, will his team to victory.

All this talk about Kobe being selfish and he loves to shoot is pure garbage. Every great scorer has a high a shooting percentage, and during the playoffs last year, Kobe's downfall was that he deferred to his supporting cast too often.

If Duncan has an off game, he has two or three All-Stars to pick up the pieces, not so with Kobe Bryant. People's biggest issue with him is the perception, rightfully or wrongfully so, that he's selfish and a whiner.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

I'll add this too. I love it when people say, "Well Shaq got a ring without Kobe, but Kobe...blah, blah.., blah. Whatever.

Shaq had, what, three or four perennial All-Stars on his team that year? He was simply the missing piece, and we saw what happend to the Heat this year.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319920]I think if you limit Kobe's prowess to just scoring, then yes, you can easily measure him with about a half dozen or so players in the NBA.

But I would contend, defensely, he's in the top 10 or so and offensively he's, without a doubt, the most prolific scorer since MJ. More than that, he can change the tempo of the game and can single handedly and consistently, I might add, will his team to victory.

All this talk about Kobe being selfish and he loves to shoot is pure garbage. Every great scorer has a high a shooting percentage, and during the playoffs last year, Kobe's downfall was that he deferred to his supporting cast too often.

If Duncan has an off game, he has two or three All-Stars to pick up the pieces, not so with Kobe Bryant. People's biggest issue with him is the perception, rightfully or wrongfully so, that he's selfish and a whiner.[/QUOTE]

I agree with almost everything you wrote. I just don't think he dominates. In fact, with the exception of a healthy Shaq and possibly Duncan, I don't think anybody dominates in the NBA. Also, if Kobe can singlehandedly, and consistently, will his team to victory, why don't they win more?

My biggest problem with Kobe is his attitude. He is not a team player, and he is a poor sport. That crap he did flailing his arm is totally classless. That was really the last straw for me.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;319924]I agree with almost everything you wrote. I just don't think he dominates. In fact, with the exception of a healthy Shaq and possibly Duncan, I don't think anybody dominates in the NBA. Also, if Kobe can singlehandedly, and consistently, will his team to victory, why don't they win more?

My biggest problem with Kobe is his attitude. He is not a team player, and he is a poor sport. That crap he did flailing his arm is totally classless. That was really the last straw for me.[/quote]

Good question, why don't they win more. I don't know how far back you go, but during Jordan's first few seasons with the Bulls he was tearing it up and yet the Bulls sucked ass year after year. It wasn't until they added a few solid role playes and Phil Jackson, (wink, wink) that things took off for the franchise. Look the Celtics had an incredible run during the 80s with Larry Bird, but they always had two or three excellent players around him - always. Same with the Sixers, same with the Lakers of old. I could go on and on here.

The formula is simple, we'll let "him" beat us, but "you guys" won't beat us. It's just not possible, no matter how great the player is.

You're right, the rub on Kobe is his attitude. He's never really escaped that rape charge back in Colorado. What I mean is, he's only done and said things to further cement in the minds of the public of what an asshole he is, or at least can be.

I'll still contend when it comes to playing unselfishly, I don't have a problem with him.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;319927]Good question, why don't they win more. I don't know how far back you go, but during Jordan's first few seasons with the Bulls he was tearing it up and yet the Bulls sucked ass year after year. It wasn't until they added a few solid role playes and Phil Jackson, (wink, wink) that things took off for the franchise. Look the Celtics had an incredible run during the 80s with Larry Bird, but they always had two or three excellent players around him - always. Same with the Sixers, same with the Lakers of old. I could go on and on here.

The formula is simple, we'll let "him" beat us, but "you guys" won't beat us. It's just not possible, no matter how great the player is.

You're right, the rub on Kobe is his attitude. He's never really escaped that rape charge back in Colorado. What I mean is, he's only done and said things to further cement in the minds of the public of what an asshole he is, or at least can be.

I'll still contend when it comes to playing unselfishly, I don't have a problem with him.[/QUOTE]

Do you think MJ could win with players like Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Vlade Divac? I think MJ could, but Kobe couldn't. I guess the problem that season was Rudy Tomjanovich? I know that was a rebuilding year, and the chemistry was a little off. I also know that you can have a great team and still lose. I'm not blaming Kobe for that. He just doesn't improve the players around him. MJ did, and I can name a handful of other players who do -- most notably Gilbert Arenas.

There are some players who have a positive effect on team chemistry and some players who have either a negative effect, or no effect at all. I'm not saying Kobe has a negative effect on team chemistry (he probably does), I'm just saying he doesn't have a positive effect. No amount of talent, or points scored, can overcome poor chemistry. Case study: every US Olympic basketball team since 1994.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

When Kobe learns how to play some defense I'd consider this. Until then, resign agent 0.

Re: Kobe a Wizard
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;319936]When Kobe learns how to play some defense I'd consider this. Until then, resign agent 0.[/QUOTE]

Kobe plays great D. I don't know who you’ve been watching.