Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1333327]We given 50B to Ukraine this year, and a lot of that was equipment and training. Not cash money.

[COLOR="Red"]It still cost us 50 billion dollars. Doesn't really matter what form the money turns into. Me personally, I don't think there are any good options dealing with a lunatic like Putin. But I'd rather it be our money than our soldiers. So I haven't been complaining about this. But I think you could make arguments against spending all of this money on Ukraine. In regards to Zelenskyy, he has been President since May 2019. Russia didn't invade until this year. I was talking about his presidency as a whole, not saying he has done a bad job in regards to Russia specifically.[/COLOR]

Trump gave farmers 51.2 BILLION in 2020 even though the farmer net income increased 4% that year. Thats just vote buying.

[COLOR="red"]I don't support this. I don't think the federal government should be subsidizing any private businesses/industries.
[/COLOR]
52 BILLION per year to stay in Afghanistan .. and yall wanted us to stay in afghanistan

[COLOR="red"]I absolutely did not want us to stay in Afghanistan!!!!!![/COLOR]

My main point I was trying to make was, that even if I absolutely hated Zelenskyy and our handling of Ukraine, if I was in congress, I'd still go to this and stand the fuck up, then listen like an adult.

P.S.

- I am not anti-Ukraine
- I have always cared about the budget and deficits.[/quote]

I’d say that it would probably cost more than $50 billion to not do anything. No matter what fighting for democracy is going to cost $.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1333360]I’d say that it would probably cost more than $50 billion to not do anything. No matter what fighting for democracy is going to cost $.[/quote]

Very good point. Could definitely be the case. I don't envy Biden for having to deal with this situation.

Someone in Russia just needs to man/woman/non-binary the fuck up, and kill Putin.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1333325]Valid arguments to be made [B]against[/B] the job Zelensky has done as a president?

We given 50B to Ukraine this year, and a lot of that was equipment and training. Not cash money.

Trump gave farmers 51.2 BILLION in 2020 even though the farmer net income increased 4% that year. Thats just vote buying.

52 BILLION per year to stay in Afghanistan .. and yall wanted us to stay in afghanistan

----

But yeah pearl clutch when an ally of ours is being killed and an entire country is being invaded

Go ahead and be anti ukraine since dems are pro ukraine

"but but but .. now we care about the budget and deficit .."

Shut the fuck up donny

[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/E7eXzyeGChMAAAAM/seinfeld-stiller.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Supporting Ukraine is within the US interest as what has happened to Russia has almost certainly caused China to rethink any move against Taiwan. Plus, can anyone deny how effectively the Ukrainians have used that support?

I think the arguments against the support for Ukraine and or the attacks on Zelensky are based on either ignorance (not realizing how much it is in our interests to do so) or political tribalism or both. After our completely unnecessary surrender in Afghanistan (costs over the last few years were a fraction of that 52 billion you mentioned) it was predicted that our adversaries would get more aggressive. Heck I even said on this board that because of this Russia, China and Iran would make moves that would cost us a heck of a lot more than what we had recently been spending in Afghanistan (and boy was I right).

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1333362]Very good point. Could definitely be the case. I don't envy Biden for having to deal with this situation.

Someone in Russia just needs to man/woman/non-binary the fuck up, and kill Putin.[/quote]

killing Putin doesn't solve this. If anything, those who would have his job are more Stalin-esque than he is. The war in Ukraine is as much a fight for the successor to Putin as anything. That's why Wagner is determined to take Bakhmut so he has a victory to tout in Russia.

The only way to end this is for Ukraine to kick the Russian forces out and set up defensive borders. At that point Belarus will topple Lukashenko, and the RF will likely see it's internal borders as more of a concern.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told French media on Wednesday that Russia had 500,000 troops ready for an attack to come in weeks. That number is far higher than the 300,000 newly enlisted soldiers Russian President Vladimir Putin called up this past autumn.

“Officially, they announced 300,000, but when we see the troops at the borders, according to our assessments it is much more,” Reznikov said.

And senior Ukrainian defense ministry official Yuriy Sak told NBC News Thursday that officials are worried Moscow’s military is preparing for a soon-to-come assault aimed at turning the war in the Kremlin’s favor.

[url]https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3841230-ukraine-warns-russia-massing-500000-troops-on-border-for-offensive/[/url]

Russia has some military holiday on Feb 23rd .. expectation is major attack on Feb 24

Ukraine has to be tired and stretched thin

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1337570]Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told French media on Wednesday that Russia had 500,000 troops ready for an attack to come in weeks. That number is far higher than the 300,000 newly enlisted soldiers Russian President Vladimir Putin called up this past autumn.

“Officially, they announced 300,000, but when we see the troops at the borders, according to our assessments it is much more,” Reznikov said.

And senior Ukrainian defense ministry official Yuriy Sak told NBC News Thursday that officials are worried Moscow’s military is preparing for a soon-to-come assault aimed at turning the war in the Kremlin’s favor.

[url]https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3841230-ukraine-warns-russia-massing-500000-troops-on-border-for-offensive/[/url]

Russia has some military holiday on Feb 23rd .. expectation is major attack on Feb 24

Ukraine has to be tired and stretched thin[/quote]

Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1337571]Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.[/quote]

They are not elite. They are mostly newer mobilized/recruited soldiers that received more training than the last iteration (who basically received none). Their elite forces (those that got years of training - ie VDV) were decimated last March-April. That said I'd expect these guys to do better than the last batch did over last summer and fall (They will be reinforced with the remnants of their regular professional forces as well).

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1337571]Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.[/quote]

Don't believe that. Russia sent it's A team in last February. The military massed for this offensive might not be cannon fodder, but they aren't elite either. Expect Ukraine to bend but do a lot of killing as they bend back to pre-positioned defensive lines. Once this offensive ends, expect the Ukrainians trained with western tanks to retake any gains Russia makes, and push the borders back toward Crimea and deep into Luhansk.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Anyone in the DC area that wants to stand with Ukraine, there will be a rally this Saturday from 2pm - 5pm in front of the Lincoln Memorial. I wish that the
76 degree day was Saturday instead of Thursday, but I will be out there regardless. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpVnSYyXEAAuok3?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

trump (chico's guy) at it Again!


[url]https://news.yahoo.com/trump-defends-putin-biden-visits-014523554.html[/url]

Rolling Stone
Trump Defends Putin as Biden Visits War-Torn Ukraine


Donald Trump on Monday night touted his great relationship with Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin and defended his past assertion that he trusted the foreign leader over his own intelligence community.

“Putin never, ever would have gone into Ukraine if I were president,” Trump told supporters at a Florida rally. “I actually had a very good relationship” with Putin.

Trump in 2018 was asked whether he believed the intelligence community’s assessment that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election or Putin’s denial that he had. Trump equivocated and seemed to suggest he believed Putin. “I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” Trump said.

Trump’s praise of Putin comes as President Biden on Monday made a surprise visit to Ukraine, as first reported by Rolling Stone. Biden arrived in Kyiv in the early morning to meet with President Volodymyr Zelensky days before the anniversary of Russia’s invasion.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1338405]trump (chico's guy) at it Again!


[url]https://news.yahoo.com/trump-defends-putin-biden-visits-014523554.html[/url]

Rolling Stone
Trump Defends Putin as Biden Visits War-Torn Ukraine


Donald Trump on Monday night touted his great relationship with Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin and defended his past assertion that he trusted the foreign leader over his own intelligence community.

“Putin never, ever would have gone into Ukraine if I were president,” Trump told supporters at a Florida rally. “I actually had a very good relationship” with Putin.

Trump in 2018 was asked whether he believed the intelligence community’s assessment that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election or Putin’s denial that he had. Trump equivocated and seemed to suggest he believed Putin. “I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” Trump said.

Trump’s praise of Putin comes as President Biden on Monday made a surprise visit to Ukraine, as first reported by Rolling Stone. Biden arrived in Kyiv in the early morning to meet with President Volodymyr Zelensky days before the anniversary of Russia’s invasion.[/quote]

[YT]BlyYs_Tkno[/YT]

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1338379]Anyone in the DC area that wants to stand with Ukraine, there will be a rally this Saturday from 2pm - 5pm in front of the Lincoln Memorial. I wish that the
76 degree day was Saturday instead of Thursday, but I will be out there regardless. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpVnSYyXEAAuok3?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG][/quote]

I hope it's a great turn out! Sadly I'll be out of town, I'll be in Jacksonville NC .

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1338432]I hope it's a great turn out! Sadly I'll be out of town, I'll be in Jacksonville NC .[/quote]

I was so disappointed in the turnout :(

There were great speakers, and the crowd that was there was passionate, but small.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11ekagu/30mm_russian_ap_round_that_failed_to_penetrate/[/url]

Dude got an extra life…I remember seeing the video of the American soldier in Iraq who got hit square in the helmet by a snipe round and it successfully ricocheted leaving a dent, but a guy body armor catching a 30 mm round from a cannon? Bro

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1338743][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11ekagu/30mm_russian_ap_round_that_failed_to_penetrate/[/url]

Dude got an extra life…I remember seeing the video of the American soldier in Iraq who got hit square in the helmet by a snipe round and it successfully ricocheted leaving a dent, but a guy body armor catching a 30 mm round from a cannon? Bro[/quote]

Almost certainly a spent round prior to the hit (ie most of it's energy already gone.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Bakhmut about to fall?

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-opens-criminal-investigation-wagner-group-chief[/url]

Russia opens criminal investigation into Wagner Group chief
Wagner Group Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin called for an armed rebellion

Welp this is crazy

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Counting Russia's dead:

[url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-829ea0ba-5b42-499b-ad40-6990f2c4e5d0[/url]

The Treacherous Path to a Better Russia:

[url]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/treacherous-path-better-russia[/url]

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Trump praises Putin as 'savvy' amid new escalations on Russia-Ukraine border

[url]https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082478790/trump-praises-putin-as-savvy-amid-new-escalations-on-russia-ukraine-[/url]

[url]https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923[/url]

Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion
The former president’s praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1342855]Trump praises Putin as 'savvy' amid new escalations on Russia-Ukraine border

[url]https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082478790/trump-praises-putin-as-savvy-amid-new-escalations-on-russia-ukraine-[/url]

[url]https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923[/url]

Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion
The former president’s praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in[/quote]

3:52 am and your thinking about Trump in another thread which has nothing to do with him.

Here G1:

[url]https://theadultman.com/live-and-learn/list-hobbies-men/[/url]

101 Best Hobbies For Men Of All Ages

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1342855]Trump praises Putin as 'savvy' amid new escalations on Russia-Ukraine border

[url]https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082478790/trump-praises-putin-as-savvy-amid-new-escalations-on-russia-ukraine-[/url]

[url]https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923[/url]

Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion
The former president’s praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in[/quote]


You know my feelings on Trump, but what the hell you seem to be so obsessed with Trump you are incapable of discussing any subject without bringing him up and/or trying the change the subject back to discussions on his jackassery.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1342858]3:52 am and your thinking about Trump in another thread which has nothing to do with him.

Here G1:

[url]https://theadultman.com/live-and-learn/list-hobbies-men/[/url]

101 Best Hobbies For Men Of All Ages[/quote]

I told you I would throw trump down your fucking throat and I meant it. Yeah and by the way I had already walked 10,400 steps and close to 4 miles by then. I'm off to work at 5:00am. trump is running for president he is still fair game!

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1342860]You know my feelings on Trump, but what the hell you seem to be so obsessed with Trump you are incapable of discussing any subject without bringing him up and/or trying the change the subject back to discussions on his jackassery.[/quote]

You have options

1) ignore my post's

2)Continue to defend chico who is the biggest trumpette here. You bring up how others are keeping track of Russia's dead since Russia won't be honest about it. It's important to point out that the leading republican candidate for president thinks putin is a genius and praise's him when ever asked? Yes I will remind everyone of exactly how much trump has fucked things up anytime I can. Say what you want but I admit it , some others (a small few) talk out of the sides of their mouths and are chicken shits.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Just an interesting video of a SAM coming right at a UAV and barely missing.

[url]https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1679714824186474496[/url]

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Biden is now allowing Ukraine to attack targets in Russia with US equipment, but true to form Biden decided on a half-measure. He is limiting it to counter battery fire and targeting battle assembling areas (Those are close to the front lines) and they can't use long range systems such as ATACMs. Dithering on tough decisions has always been Biden's weakest trait in my opinion. I still think he is one of the 10 worst Presidents in US history (and yes I'm still voting for him as much as it sickens me to do so).

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=nonniey;1362546]Biden is now allowing Ukraine to attack targets in Russia with US equipment, but true to form Biden decided on a half-measure. He is limiting it to counter battery fire and targeting battle assembling areas (Those are close to the front lines) and they can't use long range systems such as ATACMs. Dithering on tough decisions has always been Biden's weakest trait in my opinion. I still think he is one of the 10 worst Presidents in US history (and yes I'm still voting for him as much as it sickens me to do so).[/quote]

This should be a no brainer. The only thing I can think other than being unwilling to commit is that there was something behind closed doors with recent and current meetings with China.

I know you and I might disagree on this but I find it hypocritical that U.S. equipment can't be used to attack Russia but was used in a camp in Gaza

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-use-us-long-range-missiles-strike-inside-russia-report[/url]

Biden authorizes Ukraine to use US long-range missiles to strike inside Russia

Doing this on the way out of office. Was this done for political purposes? It must be as there can’t be any other reason why it was not done sooner.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1367898][url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-use-us-long-range-missiles-strike-inside-russia-report[/url]

Biden authorizes Ukraine to use US long-range missiles to strike inside Russia

Doing this on the way out of office. Was this done for political purposes? It must be as there can’t be any other reason why it was not done sooner.[/quote]

Long over due. Biden has a long history of being over cautious to the point of timidity - which actually ends up inviting the aggressive actions of our adversaries. I think his calculation is since Trump will be taking the side of Russia, that Russia won't be inclined to escalate, while giving Ukraine a better operational position to operate from.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

Nick Catoggio on Putin's threat to go nuclear:

[url]https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/us-viewpoints/article295822179.html[/url]

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1367898][url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-use-us-long-range-missiles-strike-inside-russia-report[/url]

Biden authorizes Ukraine to use US long-range missiles to strike inside Russia

Doing this on the way out of office. Was this done for political purposes? It must be as there can’t be any other reason why it was not done sooner.[/quote]

It should have been done earlier. Why tie their hands? Russians are getting help from China/North Korea. They are the invading country. Let Ukraine target their shit inside Russia too.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1367898][url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-use-us-long-range-missiles-strike-inside-russia-report[/url]



Biden authorizes Ukraine to use US long-range missiles to strike inside Russia



Doing this on the way out of office. Was this done for political purposes? It must be as there can’t be any other reason why it was not done sooner.[/QUOTE]Biden clearly held off because he knew that it would get politicized in the elections

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-19-2024[/url]

"Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 19, 2024
Ukrainian forces have defended against Russia's full-scale invasion for 1,000 days and continue to demonstrate incredible resilience against Russian aggression. Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, 2022 under the incorrect assumption that Ukraine would fail to defend itself and that Russian forces would be able to seize Kyiv City and install a pro-Russian proxy government in three days.[1] One thousand days later, Ukrainian forces have successfully pushed Russian forces from their most forward points of advance in Zhytomyr, Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, Kherson, Poltava, and Mykolaiv oblasts and continue their daily fight to liberate occupied territory in Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, Mykolaiv, and Kherson oblasts and Crimea.[2] Russian forces are currently advancing throughout eastern Ukraine, and Ukrainian officials have recently warned about the possibility of an imminent Russian offensive operation in Zaporizhia Oblast.[3] Russian President Vladimir Putin is simultaneously waging an informational war against the West, Ukraine, and the Russian population aimed at convincing the world that Russian victory is inevitable, and that Ukraine stands no chance.[4] This informational effort is born out of Putin's fear and understanding that sustained Western military, economic, and diplomatic support for Ukraine will turn the tide of the war against Russia.

Russia has accumulated a significant amount of risk and a number of ever-increasing constraints on its warfighting capabilities over the last 1,000 days. Russia began the war with a poorly organized and understaffed military comprised of contract military personnel and limited number of conscripts due to his incorrect assumption that Ukraine would fold and fear that general mobilization could threaten the stability of his regime.[5] Russia largely relied on a combination of volunteer contract servicemembers, mobilized personnel, and irregular formations (such as the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republic Army Corps [DNR/LNR AC], the Wagner Group, and Russian Volunteer Corps) to wage Putin's war without general mobilization.[6] This system has provided the Kremlin the manpower necessary to support operations so far, but there are mounting indicators that this system is beginning to teeter. Recent Western estimates of Russian manpower losses suggest that Russian forces are currently losing more troops per month than Russia's ongoing crypto-mobilization efforts can sustain, and open-source evidence indicates that Russia may not be able to sustain its current rate of armored vehicle and tank losses in the medium term as Russia burns through its stockpiles of Soviet-era equipment.[7] The upcoming 2025 year will only increase the manpower and materiel constraints on the Russian military if Russia attempts to sustain its current offensive tempo, and Putin continues to appear averse to such measures given Russian society's growing disinterest in fighting in Russia's war, the Russian economy's limitations including a significant labor deficit and high inflation, and continual aversion to bearing the burden of additional wartime costs.[8] Russia cannot maintain its current tempo indefinitely. Putin will likely need to take disruptive and drastic measures - including another involuntary call up of the mobilization reserve - to overcome these growing limitations as the war protracts.

Ukraine, meanwhile, continues to improve its warfighting capabilities and prepare itself to be self-sustainable in the long term. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky presented Ukraine's “Internal Resilience Plan” to the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) on November 19.[9] The plan is comprised of 10 points that establish Ukraine's strategic objectives during and after the end of Russia's full-scale invasion.[10] The core points of the plan outline Ukraine's focus on maintaining unity and cooperation with its partners; specific measures to stabilize the frontline and increase Ukrainian military's technological efficiency; the expansion of Ukraine's domestic industrial base (DIB) production capabilities and joint DIB partnerships; the establishment of an economic policy to support Ukrainian industries and businesses; the protection of Ukraine's energy infrastructure; and the establishment of a new internal and border security system. The plan also outlines a vision to create effective local administrations, improve social and veteran policies, and strengthen Ukraine's cultural sovereignty both domestically and abroad. Zelensky emphasized in his speech to the Verkhovna Rada that Ukraine has taken many steps to improve its DIB and has already produced over 2.5 million mortar and artillery rounds in 2024.[11] Zelensky added that Ukraine plans to produce at least 3,000 cruise missiles and 30,000 long-range drones in 2025 and that Ukrainian brigades should raise their own funding to appropriately supply themselves with drones without bureaucratic limitations. Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal announced on November 19 that the Verkhovna Rada approved the 2025 defense and security budget of 2.23 trillion hryvnias (around $54 billion) and allocated a record-breaking 739 billion hryvnias (around $17.9 billion) for the Ukrainian DIB and weapon procurement.[12] ISW continues to assess that Ukraine has a chance to dramatically expand its DIB and stand on its own two feet in the future if its partners empower Ukraine now."

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-icbm-attackddnipro-38b0faf6eed2cef98bdbc9be18f58244[/url]

Putin says Russia attacked Ukraine with a new missile that he claims the West can’t stop


Russia is countering now using more sophisticated and deadly weaponry

Can we shoot that down?

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1368017][url]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-icbm-attackddnipro-38b0faf6eed2cef98bdbc9be18f58244[/url]

Putin says Russia attacked Ukraine with a new missile that he claims the West can’t stop


Russia is countering now using more sophisticated and deadly weaponry

Can we shoot that down?[/quote]

You mean, can Ukraine shoot that down?

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1368017][url]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-icbm-attackddnipro-38b0faf6eed2cef98bdbc9be18f58244[/url]

Putin says Russia attacked Ukraine with a new missile that he claims the West can’t stop


Russia is countering now using more sophisticated and deadly weaponry

Can we shoot that down?[/quote]

Actually, it isn't that deadly as it was a missile designed for nuclear warheads. They had to use inert warheads (Which they have for test shots). You can see the footage of the MIRVs hitting the ground with the effects of the kinetic impacts. It was more a message than anything else.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[QUOTE=Giantone]Just two questions, please?



1_ How can there be talks to end the War with the US and not have Ukraine at the table?



2) Will trump's quote that Ukraine "never should have started this" hurt or help with the talks?



discuss..............................[/QUOTE]


Ukraine must be included in all discussions

Trump's parroting of russian propaganda will not help

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1373066]Ukraine must be included in all discussions

Trump's parroting of russian propaganda will not help

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Ok, thank you.

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1373066]Ukraine must be included in all discussions

[B]Trump's parroting of russian propaganda will not help[/B]

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk[/quote]

But why, why would he do such a thing?

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[url]https://x.com/politicsusa46/status/1892689421494882337?s=19[/url]

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk

Re: Ukraine mega thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1373143][url]https://x.com/politicsusa46/status/1892689421494882337?s=19[/url]

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk[/quote]

He's not wrong.