Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GMScud;885846]Yeah one day after Irsay says that he'd love to have Manning back if he wants to work out the contract... Irsay is all over the place. He keeps saying he wants to keep the business in house, yet he can't keep his mouth shut to save his life.[/quote]

He must be sippen on that syrup again. LOL:cool-smil

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GMScud;885846]Yeah one day after Irsay says that he'd love to have Manning back if he wants to work out the contract... Irsay is all over the place. He keeps saying he wants to keep the business in house, yet he can't keep his mouth shut to save his life.[/quote]

One neat way to ensure there is a lot of questions and not a lot of suiters for when you cut PM and hope to be the team to bring him back on a lower salary.

If I was PM I'd be pissed about all the negative info the Colts are putting out and basically tell them I would not be interested in a new contract or any type of restructure. I'd be ready to leave.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

So it was apparently Mannings camp that leaked the info about the 4th surgery and trying to play at the end of last year

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;885892]So it was apparently Mannings camp that leaked the info about the 4th surgery and trying to play at the end of last year[/quote]

Why would they? That information can't help his cause.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;885889]To be fair to Irsay, he is in a tough spot which I don't envy. If Manning walks then Irsay is the bad man who chased the greatest Colt in history out of town. If he keeps Manning then he's out $28 million for a QB who may not be durable and who may stand in the way of a reloaded future. Irsay is kind of damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't.[/quote]

It's a tough spot. If I'm not mistaken, Manning's camp has leaked that he'd be willing to sign a contract that is loaded with mostly performance/playing time based incentives.

Irsay basically gave him almost $30M for nothing this past season. Can you fault the guy for not wanting to do it again? Peyton Manning would count for about $35M towards the Colts salary cap next year ($7M in base pay plus the bonus I think). That's a gigantic number for a guy who's health is a total question mark. Colt or not, I don't think there' s a snowball's chance in hell Manning ever sees that $28M.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Wow, it really is the offseason.

All this time I thought you were supposed to judge the outcome of an injury [I][B]after[/B][/I] rehab is complete?

I had no idea you could look at someone in the middle of rehab and consider that the end result.

The sports media is on a fast track to becoming no better then the tabloids.
Playing fast and loss with the meaning of 'procedure' vs 'surgery'.
The list of medical treatments that can be considered 'procedure' or 'surgery' is very long.

Also, I don't understand the notion that signing Peyton prevents the team from building through the draft.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;885889]To be fair to Irsay, he is in a tough spot which I don't envy. If Manning walks then Irsay is the bad man who chased the greatest Colt in history out of town. If he keeps Manning then he's out $28 million for a QB who may not be durable and who may stand in the way of a reloaded future. Irsay is kind of damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't.[/quote]

He's not in a tough spot. Manning can't even throw the ball. When the time is right he just needs to hold a press conference and say that the risk is too great and they're going to rebuild with Luck. Instead he keeps running his mouth. It's like the guy's obsessed with his stupid ass Twitter. Are there any other owners out there Twittering?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GMScud;885894]It's a tough spot. If I'm not mistaken, Manning's camp has leaked that he'd be willing to sign a contract that is loaded with mostly performance/playing time based incentives.

Irsay basically gave him almost $30M for nothing this past season.[B] Can you fault the guy for not wanting to do it again?[/B] Peyton Manning would count for about $35M towards the Colts salary cap next year ($7M in base pay plus the bonus I think). That's a gigantic number for a guy who's health is a total question mark. Colt or not, I don't think there' s a snowball's chance in hell Manning ever sees that $28M.[/quote]
I...personally am not aware of anybody faulting him for baulking at the number. I think that is completely responsible action.
The Knock on JI has been his childish ass Twitterspace behavior and.....airing matters to the world that belong in the locker room.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;885884]This article simply points out exactly what another article actually mentioned and that was RGIII has great long ball accuracy. Timing is great on his deep ball also. Basically put he can throw the deep ball and he can throw the short ball [I][B]but he has trouble with the intermediate routes which might be the only thing open with the 3-4 zone defenses.[/B][/I][/quote]The bolded above is not the take away from the article I got at all.

Did we read the same article?
This one:
[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/2/15/2800158/tale-of-the-tape-robert-griffin-iii-vs-oklahoma]Tale of the Tape: Robert Griffin III vs Oklahoma - Hogs Haven[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Hog1;885900]I...personally am not aware of anybody faulting him for baulking at the number. I think that is completely responsible action.
[B]The Knock on JI has been his childish ass Twitterspace behavior and.....airing matters to the world that belong in the locker room.[/B][/quote]

Please note that I am not supporting Irsay, just trying to understand.

His Twitter foolishness and airing locker room issues arise because he's between a rock and a hard place. He is handling it poorly for sure...but none of us want to be in his difficult shoes on the Manning issue.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;885893]Why would they? That information can't help his cause.[/quote]

Trying to find out more about this

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;885893]Why would they? That information can't help his cause.[/quote]Sounds strange to me too.
Maybe they thought that letting people know that Peyton was near 80% during 'practice' last Dec it would help the perceptions about his health?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Ruhskins;885639]To me a journeyman QB and a developmental QB are basically going in the same direction as we did last year in terms of that position. MS' willingness to go into the season with a question mark at QB to me is a bigger risk than PM or RG3. And regardless of how it happens, if he has a losing season with a journeyman QB, I just don't see how he keeps his job.[/quote]I see last year different.
Imo going with Grossman was going with a known quantity and hoping or expecting to coach him up and make him play better then his career to date would indicate.

Imo when Rex was giving the nod over Beck in a close preseason battle it represented going with a veteran known quantity instead of Beck a journeymen/developmental QB.

In essence it was a win now move as opposed to a developmental move.
It was a continuation of avoiding developing a future QB that began with [I][B]not[/B][/I] drafting a the top QB, which I completely understand, but it also manifested itself in avoiding even drafting a late round fliers like TJ Yates or Tyrod Taylor.



[quote]If we trade up to get RG3, I actually expect the possibility of having a losing season. However, I feel that making this move would be heading in the right direction, especially if the team shows improvements in the offense. I think this would warrant another year of MS to see how he is able to improve a rookie QB.[/quote]I agree.
A rookie QB is imo the only situation where Mike can have below average QB play and not get called on the carpet.

I'm personally not against the usual suspect journeyman or second chance QB via FA/trade.
But, if they're not successful right away it won't be good for Mike Shanahan because of his failures at the QB position thus far.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

i'd rather take another look at patrick ramsey than go another year with grossman as our best bet

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

The most fascinating thing is that in 2011, the only unit on the team that exceeded it's relative expectations was the passing offense. The rushing offense, rush defense, pass defense, kick, and kick return games all performed below expectation.

So I mean, what do you address? The biggest need (passing offense) is the one that performed relatively well last year. Do you just throw all resources at that one problem and hope everything else just had a down year last year? Or do you spread the resources around and hope the pass offense takes another step forward without much of a talent influx?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

not all resources, but you get yourself the best qb possible...

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

LOL. I'm sorry.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/rex-grossman-wants-to-stay-with-the-redskins/]Rex Grossman wants to stay with the Redskins | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

you can tell his heart is in it

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=los panda;885923]not all resources, but you get yourself the best qb possible...[/quote]Which would cost most of the available resources.

Not all. You could get Griffin and still have a huge FA shopping spree targeting young players. Or you could get Manning/Orton/Henne and have complete flexibility in this draft.

Problem is, neither option fixes the passing game on day one. There were gains made last year that you lose as soon as you change the quarterback. Not that it is not still an obvious place that can be upgraded, just that the more you change, the less last year's finish meant.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I don't have a...real problem with that. Obviously Rex is not our starting QB wish. As the team (and the components around him) improves, so will he. He knows the offense. If he can raise his level of play a bit, he CAN be a very effective BU

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I think Rex Grossman: Redskins starting QB until Nick Foles/Brandon Weeden is up to speed makes a lot more sense than Rex Grossman: Backup quarterback of the Redskins.

If Grossman is here next year, it should be as the week one starter, but if/when he is replaced in the starting lineup, I think the backup should be someone else. So if they add Foles and Moore/Wilson in the draft, and Foles wins the starting job in Week 5, I wouldn't want Grossman active on gameday. There's no point. The only point of bringing Grossman back is not because he knows the offense, but because no one who could win games in 2012 more easily would come here.

So like, if Manning, Orton, Campbell, Flynn, and Henne all sign elsewhere...and the Redskins cannot get any of them, and the Redskins opt to add two guys in the draft, then Grossman probably gives the Redskins the best chance of winning. Obviously, that's kind of a Plan D at this point.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GTripp0012;885937]I think Rex Grossman: Redskins starting QB until Nick Foles/Brandon Weeden is up to speed makes a lot more sense than Rex Grossman: Backup quarterback of the Redskins.

If Grossman is here next year, it should be as the week one starter, but if/when he is replaced in the starting lineup, I think the backup should be someone else. So if they add Foles and Moore/Wilson in the draft, and Foles wins the starting job in Week 5, I wouldn't want Grossman active on gameday. There's no point. The only point of bringing Grossman back is not because he knows the offense, but because no one who could win games in 2012 more easily would come here.

So like, if Manning, Orton, Campbell, Flynn, and Henne all sign elsewhere...and the Redskins cannot get any of them, and the Redskins opt to add two guys in the draft, then Grossman probably gives the Redskins the best chance of winning. Obviously, that's kind of a Plan D at this point.[/quote]

If they make it to this plan their will be a lot of pissed fans, me included. We know what Rex can do and we don't need to see him anymore. No more BS about him knowing the system, get rid of beck too. There needs 2 new QBs on the roster next year, whoever they may be.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Ok it's settled. We have to pick up PM at any cost.

[url=http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/washington_redskins_should_look_beyond_peyton_manning_says_dc_mayor/9934966]Washington Redskins should look beyond Peyton Manning, says D.C. Mayor | Yardbarker.com[/url]

If there is anything I've learned is you do the opposite of whatever the Mayor wants to do there cause they have no clue and screw up all the time anyway.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

This should make the RGIII fans happy.

[url=http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2012/02/15/sports/nh5105064.txt]NFL analyst Mike Mayock says Browns should select Robert Griffin III - news-herald.com[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

it's rex manning day

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=GTripp0012;885921]The most fascinating thing is that in 2011, the only unit on the team that exceeded it's relative expectations was the passing offense. The rushing offense, rush defense, pass defense, kick, and kick return games all performed below expectation.

So I mean, what do you address? The biggest need (passing offense) is the one that performed relatively well last year. Do you just throw all resources at that one problem and hope everything else just had a down year last year? Or do you spread the resources around and hope the pass offense takes another step forward without much of a talent influx?[/quote]It depends on which metric, which aspect of the passing game and what your expectations were.

For me the passing game, but [I]particularly[/I] the QB position, performed below expectations but were below league average.
Rex was one of the worst QBs in the league and averaged an offense killing/ season killing amount of turnovers.

To my eye the only units that exceeded expectations were the running game and the OL (if only because my expectations were very low).
The running game proved to be our best offensive weapon despite the playcaller's penchant for relying on the pass more then the run.
The OL on the whole was solid in pass protection to the point where it was viable to run a 5-step drop intensive offense.
And after the injuries hit it seemed the OL improved when young depth players were inserted into the line-up.

I think there are three areas that need to be addressed with best resources available: QB, OL: (RT that could possibly play LT, OG), Safety.

* I'm not against it for a [I]potential[/I] 'franchise' QB.
But in general I'm against trading up as rule when it cost high draft mulitple high draft picks.
However when the compensation is reasonable i.e. like Denver moving up for Cutler or Ravens moving up for Flacco etc. I'm all for it.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

If we start 2012 with Rex Grossman as our starting QB, I think I will blow up FedEx field.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;885966]If we start 2012 with Rex Grossman as our starting QB, I think I will blow up FedEx field.[/quote]You are ruining the mystery of it.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=30gut;885957]It depends on which metric, which aspect of the passing game and what your expectations were.

For me the passing game, but [I]particularly[/I] the QB position, performed below expectations but were below league average.
Rex was one of the worst QBs in the league and averaged an offense killing/ season killing amount of turnovers.

To my eye the only units that exceeded expectations were the running game and the OL (if only because my expectations were very low).
The running game proved to be our best offensive weapon despite the playcaller's penchant for relying on the pass more then the run.
The OL on the whole was solid in pass protection to the point where it was viable to run a 5-step drop intensive offense.
And after the injuries hit it seemed the OL improved when young depth players were inserted into the line-up.

I think there are three areas that need to be addressed with best resources available: QB, OL: (RT that could possibly play LT, OG), Safety.

* I'm not against it for a [I]potential[/I] 'franchise' QB.
But in general I'm against trading up as rule when it cost high draft mulitple high draft picks.
However when the compensation is reasonable i.e. like Denver moving up for Cutler or Ravens moving up for Flacco etc. I'm all for it.[/quote]To me, the Redskins kind of have to take the most premium player with a focus on offense. If they are willing to trade up, that may very well mean RG3. With Griffin and Blackmon both likely to be gone in the first four picks, its a good year to trade up. It's probably not necessary to give up your 2013 first rounder to do so, but if you're Mike Shanahan, it is easy to see why trading your 2013 first rounder is preferable to trading your 2012 second rounder. In terms of net present value there's not a huge difference between the two picks, so I mean, I think I'll live if they give up next year's first rounder to move up. It shouldn't cost too much more than that.

If they offer two first rounders to the Rams/Vikings, neither is going to say "no", they would either have a better offer from the Browns or Dolphins, or they would do that trade in a heartbeat.

And personally, I don't really care if the target is Griffin or Blackmon, as both will hopefully improve your passing offense. I have Griffin rated a lot higher than Blackmon, but if you have Blackmon rated much higher than RG3, then he's probably the one worth trading up for.

It does look like the cost of improving the passing offense in the first round would be a trade up and costing your 2013 first rounder. But you could get Trent Richardson, (perhaps) Mo Claiborne, or Reily Reiff to improve your ground game or pass defense without moving anywhere.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Gtripp, do you think it is worth for the Redskins to trade up for Blackmon, when there is such a deep WR FA group this offseason with guys like Bowe and possibly Stevie Johnson. I am not comparing Blackmon to those guys, but I feel with cap room and the QB need, I would rather trade up for RG3.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Peyton's neck surgeries
3:19
PM ET
Peyton Manning | Colts
TopEmailComments

SI.com's Don Banks reports that Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning has actually undergone four surgeries on his neck over the past two years, not three, as had been widely reported. The extra procedure took place at some point between his May 23 surgery to repair a bulging disk and the cervical neck fusion that took place Sept. 9.

"In addition," Banks added, "league sources say Manning's neck has potentially developed bone spurs just above the point where his latest fusion surgery took place in early September, and the Colts organization is under the belief that it is nearly inevitable Manning will at some point require further surgery, and possibly another fusion procedure, even if he does successfully return to the field in 2012.

"It's unclear how any potential long-term neck issues will impact Manning's decision to attempt a resumption of his NFL playing career later this year."

Banks goes on to give more details about Manning's attempts to play at the end of the 2011 regular season, which gives some insight into the relationship between Manning and the Colts. Concerns about an aging quarterback with a problematic neck are legitimate for Manning, the Colts and his suitors if he becomes a free agent. An incentive-laden contract seems like the best hope for Manning in 2012.

All this means he can come here for cheap

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;885999]All this means he can come here for cheap[/quote]

I like the way you THINK!.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Or not at all.
The man has more stitches in him than my grandmas quilt.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;886004]Or not at all.
The man has more stitches in him than my grandmas quilt.[/quote]

^^weak sauce. You have to come up with something better than that. The man has more stitches than a major surgery patient in an underground free clinic.

This is precisely why I've said I don't want him coming here. More little nuggets of info pop up all the time.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

They should trade back if they're targeting a WR. Floyd or Jeffery could be had later. The more picks the better.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;885979]Peyton's neck surgeries
3:19
PM ET
Peyton Manning | Colts
TopEmailComments

SI.com's Don Banks reports that Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning has actually undergone four surgeries on his neck over the past two years, not three, as had been widely reported. The extra procedure took place at some point between his May 23 surgery to repair a bulging disk and the cervical neck fusion that took place Sept. 9.

"In addition," Banks added, "league sources say Manning's neck has potentially developed bone spurs just above the point where his latest fusion surgery took place in early September, and the Colts organization is under the belief that it is nearly inevitable Manning will at some point require further surgery, and possibly another fusion procedure, even if he does successfully return to the field in 2012.

"It's unclear how any potential long-term neck issues will impact Manning's decision to attempt a resumption of his NFL playing career later this year."

Banks goes on to give more details about Manning's attempts to play at the end of the 2011 regular season, which gives some insight into the relationship between Manning and the Colts. Concerns about an aging quarterback with a problematic neck are legitimate for Manning, the Colts and his suitors if he becomes a free agent. An incentive-laden contract seems like the best hope for Manning in 2012.[/quote]

At this point Peyton should be thinking of his family and the rest of his life. He really should just hang it up.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

It doesn't sound like any doctor is telling Peyton he shouldn't play again

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886022]It doesn't sound like any doctor is telling Peyton he shouldn't play again[/quote]


that maybe true but if it was me that sounds like pretty scary stuff, I bet his wife is saying don't play.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mredskins;886023]that maybe true but if it was me that sounds like pretty scary stuff, I bet his wife is saying don't play.[/quote]

It would be scary if a doctor comes out and say that P. Manning should not play. Last time I checked, Don Banks is not a doctor. I do think Manning must make sure that he is medically ready to play (anywhere) and consider the consequences when he speaks to his doctors. However, as I said before all of this is speculation and rumors from people who are not doctors.