Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1226110]Thank you for the update!
I do think it's a pretty smart deal considering the situation, and gives the organisation leverage: if TW comes back, they have a cheap solid swing back up, if he doesn't they have a more than decent veteran starter.

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When do the incentives count towards the cap.... at the end of the year? A one million deal is a great deal if Trent is back, however, Penn signed with the understanding he might start. 5 million is a fair amount for a starter.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1226111]Today he is the best player on our team.



On June 4th, in post #14 from this thread, he was being abused by mediocre pass rushers.

He played through severe injuries and what had to be excruciating pain, knowing it would take a toll on his longevity for this team.

Troll.[/quote]

He was abused by mediocre pass rushers. He does jump offsides. He's injured a lot. Let me ask you question since you're always on Trent's balls. How many times have we made the playoffs since Trent has been here? How many times have we advanced to the NFC championship game? Once you answer those questions you can see why we can do with or without Trent.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=httr198020;1226118]He was abused by mediocre pass rushers. He does jump offsides. He's injured a lot. Let me ask you question since you're always on Trent's balls. How many times have we made the playoffs since Trent has been here? How many times have we advanced to the NFC championship game? Once you answer those questions you can see why we can do with or without Trent.[/QUOTE]There were 430 offensive holding calls last season Moses had 14, TW had 4 or less then 1 per 3 games. He jumped offsides 3 times or once per every 4 games he played. He allowed 3 sacks in 13 games.
He is a 7x probowler in 9 years in the league, and he has been a major positive in the locker room.

Tyron Smith had 2 false starts and 7 holds
Jason Peters had 2 holds and 5 false starts
Both are top 5
Your frustration and anger is misplaced sir


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1226113]The funny thing about this post is that guy, who fans aside from yourself think is only "good" has a legit chance at becoming the Redskins all-time sack leader this upcoming season. If that's how we're setting the bar I can't wait until we get one of those elite pass rushers.[/QUOTE]

Great point.

Trent is just on a different level. He is the 1 % of the 1%.

Being elite is a really simple test. Does he scare the other teams coordinator enough to force them to gameplan for the player?

Offensive coordinators have never had to game plan around kerrigan despite his numbers and reliability.

You can list the players in the league now and over the last few years who offenses have had to game plan around.

And yes, his durability, willingness to play through pain and injury are great.

He just isn't elite, and that's ok. He is really good on the field, really steady, and a great Redskin.



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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1226102]Kerrigan is good. He isn't elite and never has been.

Trent is a freak. Strength, speed, size, agility. He can do things no other tackle can do.

Kerrigan is durable and really good but Schneed is right on, he isn't close to Trent.

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4 time Pro Bowler, double digit sacks, never misses a game, yet for some odd reason Ryan Kerrigan doesn't get his deserved respect around here. Trent being a freak does no good when he is spending 4 games a year in street clothes. Now it also seems from what has been coming out his attitude went downhill when Geron Christian was drafted and a lot of the medical issue is on him. Sounds like the relationship is beyond repair.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1226122]4 time Pro Bowler, double digit sacks, never misses a game, yet for some odd reason Ryan Kerrigan doesn't get his deserved respect around here. Trent being a freak does no good when he is spending 4 games a year in street clothes. Now it also seems from what has been coming out his attitude went downhill when Geron Christian was drafted and a lot of the medical issue is on him. Sounds like the relationship is beyond repair.[/QUOTE]How was that post disrespectful?

The lack of game planning by OC's for Kerrigan isn't a unique opinion at all.

In fact, it's a widely held opinion by Cooley and other analysts.

Teams game plan for Von Miller. Teams don't game plan for Ryan Kerrigan.

Let's define our terms. Elite meaning best of the best.

Do you believe Ryan Kerrigan is an elite edge player?




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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1226125]How was that post disrespectful?

The lack of game planning by OC's for Kerrigan isn't a unique opinion at all.

In fact, it's a widely held opinion by Cooley and other analysts.

Teams game plan for Von Miller. Teams don't game plan for Ryan Kerrigan.

Let's define our terms. Elite meaning best of the best.

Do you believe Ryan Kerrigan is an elite edge player?




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I would never compare Kerrigan to Miller, Miller is a slam dunk first ballot Hall of Famer. I place Kerrigan as having a huge impact on the success of the Redskins, others around here don't seem to feel that way. I am judging him on the impact he has on the Redskins, not how he compares to a future Hall of Famer. Under how most define elite he is not, but if elite is an A+ grade he is at least a B+ in my book. It seems like many around here would have no trouble trading the guy, I would not.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Add in the forced fumbles and TDs and Kerrigan is an A. A couple of others in the league are A+. Since he has come in the league he is top 5 in sacks and higher in FF. He is under valued here and league wide by fans.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=5superbowls3wins;1226101]There’s an article floating possible trade partners. In there it mentions Redskins trading WIlliams to Houston for a 2020 first rounder, or Redskins trading WIlliams to Jacksonville for Jalen Ramsey. I’d take either one at this point


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I’d do a first rounder. Ramsey is awesome but it would move Dunbar to the bench and he’s a really intriguing player to me. Ramsey would only agree to a trade if he could get a big contract out of it and it would make our cap situation tight. Extending Scherff then gets tough.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Kerrigan is criminally underrated around the NFL. If you look at the pressure stats since 2011 he is right there with Watt and Miller. Some of that is due to durability because Watt and Miller have missed some games, but he is very very good even still. He’s about to be our franchise sack leader after all. We all look back with fondness at Mann and Manley, he hasn’t won like they did because he hasn’t had the support around him they did, but he’s certainly in their class.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

At the latest press conference, Gruden says he wants to keep TW on the team and not trade him.

The thing everyone has to remember is that TW has not recovered from his medical issues and is not in the condition to practice right now. That means that even if the Redskins wanted to trade him, they couldn't do it because he can't pass the physical.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Warthog;1226132]At the latest press conference, Gruden says he wants to keep TW on the team and not trade him.

The thing everyone has to remember is that TW has not recovered from his medical issues and is not in the condition to practice right now. That means that even if the Redskins wanted to trade him, they couldn't do it because he can't pass the physical.[/quote]

Please explain.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1226098]On the current roster, which players are better than Trent?[/QUOTE]



Don’t feed the trolls....

Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1226099]Not a single one. He’s our best. Kerrigan is next, and Collins is after that.[/QUOTE]



Collins? Scherrff I would put above him. Maybe Allen too. Got very high hopes for Sweat, Guice, and Haskins but time will tell.
Collins is a beast though. All debatable. Though Scherrff id have second or third with Trent and RK for sure.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1226137]Please explain.[/QUOTE]



You can’t trade a player unless he passes a physical. So it isn’t really an option right now. But Gruden of course is saying that. Unfortunately Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb have the final say. Bumbling freakin idiots those two.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=punch it in;1226140]You can’t trade a player unless he passes a physical. So it isn’t really an option right now. But Gruden of course is saying that. Unfortunately Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb have the final say. Bumbling freakin idiots those two.[/quote]

I wanted the medical issues explained. Having a growth removed from someone's scalp should not impact them from staying in reasonable physical condition.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1226141]I wanted the medical issues explained. Having a growth removed from someone's scalp should not impact them from staying in reasonable physical condition.[/QUOTE]I havent seen any legitimate report about TW not passing a physical. Sounds more like a false news then true. Also even if true i imagine TW could get passed the physical in time for a trade to be processed.

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1226142]I havent seen any legitimate report about TW not passing a physical. Sounds more like a false news then true. Also even if true i imagine TW could get passed the physical in time for a trade to be processed.

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The only source I have heard saying something similar is Sheehan on his podcast. I haven't seen that info in print.

The implication from Sheehan was that the tumor was much deeper than simply on Trent's scalp.

The discussion was light on detail and "deeper" wasn't really explained. Scalp, skull, then brain, it's not complicated, but there wasn't any elaboration. Just that the surgery was serious enough to keep him from training to prepare for training camp or the season.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1226141]I wanted the medical issues explained. Having a growth removed from someone's scalp should not impact them from staying in reasonable physical condition.[/QUOTE]



The medical issue is just an underlying issue of why he hasn’t been practicing. But like Cred said id imagine he could probably get into shape and pass a physical in no time.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=5superbowls3wins;1226101]There’s an article floating possible trade partners. In there it mentions Redskins trading WIlliams to Houston for a 2020 first rounder, or Redskins trading WIlliams to Jacksonville for [B]Jalen Ramsey[/B]. I’d take either one at this point


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Wait. What? Jalen Ramsey? Who the f*ck answered the phone in Jax and said that? Is recreational marijuana legal in Florida yet?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Trent will not be moved, he would have by now. It's rare to see guys especially star players traded during Preseason.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1226162]Trent will not be moved, he would have by now. It's rare to see guys especially star players traded during Preseason.[/quote]

I disagree. There's simply no reason to move him now. He's currently not taking up a roster spot and we're not going to have to pay him if he skips games. So unless some time is offering us something amazing for him right now, there's no reason to move him for anything less than an amazing offer.

At some point in the pre-season or early part of the regular season, a contending team will lose their starting tackle due to injury, and they'll come calling. We might as well wait until that happens as that's when we'll get the most value out of him.

Alternative, when he starts missing game checks, Trent may decide to swallow his pride and show up.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1226167]I disagree. There's simply no reason to move him now. He's currently not taking up a roster spot and we're not going to have to pay him if he skips games. So unless some time is offering us something amazing for him right now, there's no reason to move him for anything less than an amazing offer.

At some point in the pre-season or early part of the regular season, a contending team will lose their starting tackle due to injury, and they'll come calling. We might as well wait until that happens as that's when we'll get the most value out of him.

Alternative, when he starts missing game checks, Trent may decide to swallow his pride and show up.[/quote]

Yeah that's what I was saying, when its time to get paid, he'll be there

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1226170]Yeah that's what I was saying, when its time to get paid, he'll be there[/quote]

Levon Bell sat out a season, don’t underestimate Trent. He’s got lots of cash.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1226171]Levon Bell sat out a season, don’t underestimate Trent. He’s got lots of cash.[/quote]

But is he gonna sit out 2 years? That’s the difference

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1226172]But is he gonna sit out 2 years? That’s the difference[/quote]

Bingo

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=mooby;1226113]The funny thing about this post is that guy, who fans aside from yourself think is only "good" has a legit chance at becoming the Redskins all-time sack leader this upcoming season. If that's how we're setting the bar I can't wait until we get one of those elite pass rushers.[/quote]

Exactly and I saw that since 2013 only Von Miller has more sacks than Ryan in the NFL and that was by a half sack. Ryan just doesn't have the flashy name or the flashy play I guess, but the man is durable and gets the job done. Is he Donald or Mack or Miller? No, but his numbers speak for themselves.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=httr198020;1226118]He was abused by mediocre pass rushers. He does jump offsides. He's injured a lot. Let me ask you question since you're always on Trent's balls. How many times have we made the playoffs since Trent has been here? [B]How many times have we advanced to the NFC championship game?[/B] Once you answer those questions you can see why we can do with or without Trent.[/quote]

By that logic we should cut/trade everyone on the team right now, because none of them have advanced to the NFC title game as a member of the Redskins.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=httr198020;1226118]He was abused by mediocre pass rushers. He does jump offsides. He's injured a lot. Let me ask you question since you're always on Trent's balls. How many times have we made the playoffs since Trent has been here? How many times have we advanced to the NFC championship game? Once you answer those questions you can see why we can do with or without Trent.[/quote]

U don't watch football

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1226187]U don't watch football[/QUOTE]



[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/cf557095a2de20ba7807a789b0a6df03.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1226187]U don't watch football[/quote]I've watched ever Redskin game for the last 30 years.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1226185]Exactly and I saw that since 2013 only Von Miller has more sacks than Ryan in the NFL and that was by a half sack. Ryan just doesn't have the flashy name or the flashy play I guess, but the man is durable and gets the job done. Is he Donald or Mack or Miller? No, but his numbers speak for themselves.[/quote]

+1. He's not Von Miller, but then again very few players are. Above average is good enough for me. If he went out for the year and god forbid Ryan Anderson had to take his place, we would all be bitching about the drop-off in talent.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=httr198020;1226201]I've watched ever Redskin game for the last 30 years.[/quote]

Well then how the heck can u say Trent gets beat all the time? You do realize that since he came into the league, he has given up the least amount of sacks right?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Trent is the best LT in the NFL. He doesn’t get beat, and is more athletic than almost any LT. He can get out in space and move pretty fast.


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

They need to figure out something quickly. NE can afford him evidently and many feel need an upgrade at the position.

[url]https://us.blastingnews.com/sports/2019/08/bradys-new-deal-allows-patriots-to-trade-for-trent-williams-possibly-sign-gronkowski-002960611.html[/url]

I'm hearing NE or Houston. Either way, the team is sending mixed signals. I'm still in favor of trading him. Just feel this situation is nearly irrecoverable at this point. I understand Trent is pissed, but he has to be somewhat reasonable. That doesn't appear to be the case.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

The article I read said Trent’s still getting in NFL shape. Not ready yet.

We need Trent more than he needs us. We went from having a good OL to it just imploding.We’re bringing in guys like Flowers, Penn in a rather vain attempt to plug the huge hole he leaves in the OL by not being there. These guys are stopgap players not anywhere close to being at Trents level of play. The reason our three QB are having some of their problems in TC, is because of heavy pass pressure. What’s it going to be like when the QB can actually be hit in the game?

If the Redskins ever want to get to the next level they need to figure out how to deal with elite players like Trent. The Cousins fiasco was just totally mis-handled. This is going the same way. The Redskins are known in the NFL for their drama - the bad kind. If they can figure out how to get Trent back on board, they will lose some of the stigma of being a poorly run organization. If we can’t figure out how to deal with Trent, what’s the likelihood we’ll do any better with Schereff?

Trent wants guaranteed money this year. Give it to him and make our OL a positive part of our offense for our rookie QB.


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Warthog;1226215]The article I read said Trent’s still getting in NFL shape. Not ready yet.

We need Trent more than he needs us. We went from having a good OL to it just imploding.We’re bringing in guys like Flowers, Penn in a rather vain attempt to plug the huge hole he leaves in the OL by not being there. These guys are stopgap players not anywhere close to being at Trents level of play. The reason our three QB are having some of their problems in TC, is because of heavy pass pressure. What’s it going to be like when the QB can actually be hit in the game?

If the Redskins ever want to get to the next level they need to figure out how to deal with elite players like Trent. The Cousins fiasco was just totally mis-handled. This is going the same way. The Redskins are known in the NFL for their drama - the bad kind. If they can figure out how to get Trent back on board, they will lose some of the stigma of being a poorly run organization. If we can’t figure out how to deal with Trent, what’s the likelihood we’ll do any better with Schereff?

Trent wants guaranteed money this year. Give it to him and make our OL a positive part of our offense for our rookie QB.


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Good post! Yes, we definitely need Trent more than he needs us. With Trent back, we should have a very solid OT group with Donald Penn as the swing tackle.

BTW, please don't lump Penn in the same category as Flowers. Penn has been an outstanding NFL player whereas Flowers has been a bust up to now.

To me, guaranteed money would be no big thing in Trent's case, if that what it takes to get him to report. I would not trade him under any circumstances.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

“I don’t know. I don’t know how much (Trent is) paying attention. Another week or two, we’ll see what happens. If I have to jog to Houston (Williams’s home base) or wherever the heck he’s at, I might have to do that,” Gruden told The Athletic.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Warthog;1226215]The article I read said Trent’s still getting in NFL shape. Not ready yet.

We need Trent more than he needs us. We went from having a good OL to it just imploding.We’re bringing in guys like Flowers, Penn in a rather vain attempt to plug the huge hole he leaves in the OL by not being there. These guys are stopgap players not anywhere close to being at Trents level of play. The reason our three QB are having some of their problems in TC, is because of heavy pass pressure. What’s it going to be like when the QB can actually be hit in the game?

If the Redskins ever want to get to the next level they need to figure out how to deal with elite players like Trent. The Cousins fiasco was just totally mis-handled. This is going the same way. The Redskins are known in the NFL for their drama - the bad kind. If they can figure out how to get Trent back on board, they will lose some of the stigma of being a poorly run organization. If we can’t figure out how to deal with Trent, what’s the likelihood we’ll do any better with Schereff?

Trent wants guaranteed money this year. Give it to him and make our OL a positive part of our offense for our rookie QB.


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From my perspective, the Skins have treated Trent incredibly well. They have paid him over 100M so far. He has been injury-prone throughout his career, and dealt with numerous suspensions. What did we do after his last 4 game suspension? We gave him the largest contract for an NFL O-lineman in history.

There is no denying the general dysfunction surrounding this team, but when it comes to Trent, this team has been incredibly loyal to him.

Regarding this current situation, reports are that the team advised Trent to get a second opinion for two years - and he didn't. The medical staff just won an award for best in the league, so i find it highly unlikely they bungled this situation in some way. At some point, Trent needs to take some personal responsibility instead of blaming the team for his own stupidity.

I've hated not a few decisions this team has made over the years and the stubborn and callous way they've handled some situations. But by all appearances, that is not the case here.

Trent is old, injury-prone, and has two years remaining on his deal. Extending him would, quite frankly, be short-sighted and stupid. Depsite everything Trent has done for us, we can only bank on him for 12-ish games per year the next 2-3 years anyway - at most. Is that really someone that smart teams give huge contract extensions to? Or do they "move on a year too early rather than a year too late?"

It would be better to call his bluff and devote the next large contract for the Oline to Scherff. If Trent holds out all year, that's unfortunate, but we can get by with Penn for a year and then address the long-term plan at LT in the draft or free agency next year.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1226252]From my perspective, the Skins have treated Trent incredibly well. They have paid him over 100M so far. He has been injury-prone throughout his career, and dealt with numerous suspensions. What did we do after his last 4 game suspension? We gave him the largest contract for an NFL O-lineman in history.

There is no denying the general dysfunction surrounding this team, but when it comes to Trent, this team has been incredibly loyal to him.

Regarding this current situation, reports are that the team advised Trent to get a second opinion for two years - and he didn't. The medical staff just won an award for best in the league, so i find it highly unlikely they bungled this situation in some way. At some point, Trent needs to take some personal responsibility instead of blaming the team for his own stupidity.

I've hated not a few decisions this team has made over the years and the stubborn and callous way they've handled some situations. But by all appearances, that is not the case here.

Trent is old, injury-prone, and has two years remaining on his deal. Extending him would, quite frankly, be short-sighted and stupid. Depsite everything Trent has done for us, we can only bank on him for 12-ish games per year the next 2-3 years anyway - at most. Is that really someone that smart teams give huge contract extensions to? Or do they "move on a year too early rather than a year too late?"

It would be better to call his bluff and devote the next large contract for the Oline to Scherff. If Trent holds out all year, that's unfortunate, but we can get by with Penn for a year and then address the long-term plan at LT in the draft or free agency next year.[/quote]

Good post but I have to disagree with you. Yeah, we've paid him a lot of money but he's one of the best LT [I]in the NFL[/I]. He's been one of the few outstanding, constants on this team. The OL will be a freakin' NIGHTMARE without him. I think you will see how sorry our OL is in these upcoming pre-season games. I suspect we will have no running game and our QB are going to be running for their lives.

TW is one of a [I]handful[/I] of players who have been on this team for more than 6 years! If you have a franchise player at a key position, like LT, you keep him!

At 31, he still has a few really good years left. You talk about Flowers - he is 36 years old. That's ancient in the NFL. TW's current contract is #6 in the NFL for LT. Are we really going to f--- up our OL this season over a few $mill of guaranteed money?

Next season I suspect we will have a new coach and we will be drafting for OL keepers. Let's keep our best OL players on the team -TW and Sheref.