Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1220270]I know nothing about PFF grades what does someone like Trent Williams grade out at?[/QUOTE]Don't buy into those too much.

PFF is iffy. Especially evaluating line play.

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1220279]Don't buy into those too much.

PFF is iffy. Especially evaluating line play.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I get that some think PFF is a bunch of nerds that have never played football. It's far from the case, most of the managers that have to approve of the grades are former players or coaches. I worked a bunch this year with Zac Robinson who is now a QB coach for LA. Yeah a few guys are nerdy guys that may have never played a down but the work is legit, the process is long and tedious. The OL grades are very In dept as all positions are, special teams is probably one of the hardest as well.

I thought the same thing before working at PFF

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1220281]I get that some think PFF is a bunch of nerds that have never played football. It's far from the case, most of the managers that have to approve of the grades are former players or coaches. I worked a bunch this year with Zac Robinson who is now a QB coach for LA. Yeah a few guys are nerdy guys that may have never played a down but the work is legit, the process is long and tedious. The OL grades are very In dept as all positions are, special teams is probably one of the hardest as well.

I thought the same thing before working at PFF

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So you [U]do[/U] know what you're talking about, then? Damn! Well, I suppose I I can still disagree with you occasionally. That's because I don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1220282]So you [U]do[/U] know what you're talking about, then? Damn! Well, I suppose I I can still disagree with you occasionally. That's because I don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.[/QUOTE]Ha, I just love talking football on here with u guys. Just saying I understand y some would think PFF is all a joke, I really did too until I got on with them, really cool stuff.

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1220281]I get that some think PFF is a bunch of nerds that have never played football. It's far from the case, most of the managers that have to approve of the grades are former players or coaches. I worked a bunch this year with Zac Robinson who is now a QB coach for LA. Yeah a few guys are nerdy guys that may have never played a down but the work is legit, the process is long and tedious. The OL grades are very In dept as all positions are, special teams is probably one of the hardest as well.

I thought the same thing before working at PFF

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]A couple years ago Trent received a bad PFF grade for a game.

Cooley literally said of his performance from the same game that coaches should use the film to show college kids how the tackle positron should be played and graded him an A+, All Pro performer.

I and others posted contemporaneously about the discrepancy.

Those two grades are irreconcilable in my opinion and somebody was irresponsibly wrong. I don't believe it was Cooley.

I don't buy into PFF ratings for a minute. Their statistics seems useful.

Wasn't HaHa the top rated PFF safety when we got him for a ham sandwich last year?

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1220281]I get that some think PFF is a bunch of nerds that have never played football. It's far from the case, most of the managers that have to approve of the grades are former players or coaches. I worked a bunch this year with Zac Robinson who is now a QB coach for LA. Yeah a few guys are nerdy guys that may have never played a down but the work is legit, the process is long and tedious. The OL grades are very In dept as all positions are, special teams is probably one of the hardest as well.

I thought the same thing before working at PFF

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]How long and tedious is the process?

When are the grades posted?

How many plays are evaluated and for how many plays?

The way your explaining it, all the players, and all the plays are being examined at least twice? Once by a lower level person and once by a supervisor?

I think it's also highly indicative of the reliability of their grades of the grades are never revised after review. Further inquiry into a player's assignment or lack of assignment on a bad looking play.

If grades are never revised up or down like real coaching grades (after watching film with and talking to the player involved) then it also creates a reliability issue.

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1220285]How long and tedious is the process?

When are the grades posted?

How many plays are evaluated and for how many plays?

The way your explaining it, all the players, and all the plays are being examined at least twice? Once by a lower level person and once by a supervisor?

I think it's also highly indicative of the reliability of their grades of the grades are never revised after review. Further inquiry into a player's assignment or lack of assignment on a bad looking play.

If grades are never revised up or down like real coaching grades (after watching film with and talking to the player involved) then it also creates a reliability issue.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]The training alone just to get hired takes 3-6 months, you go through a trial period, based on accuracy and speed. If you don't pass they don't hire u.

During the season you are assigned a certain amount of games weekly, every process you do is checked by senior analyst first and then process managers (mine were Zac Robinson (former NFL QB and now with the LA Rams staff) and Tim Beckman who was a former coach in the ncaa and nfl) . So say I grade Case Keenums passing for a game, that is checked off twice before the grades are even posted. This is for every position and snap per game. Every NFL team is a client and most NCAA teams are, with the AAF also coming on this yr.

It's not just watching football like we all do weekly and love, the coaches film comes in the night games are finished and that's when you do Player grades. When working games live you will do other processes like charting field coordinates, penalties, time of possession, pressures , etc.

It's a lot of work, I gained a ton of respect for the company after this season.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1220286]The training alone just to get hired takes 3-6 months, you go through a trial period, based on accuracy and speed. If you don't pass they don't hire u.

During the season you are assigned a certain amount of games weekly, every process you do is checked by senior analyst first and then process managers (mine were Zac Robinson (former NFL QB and now with the LA Rams staff) and Tim Beckman who was a former coach in the ncaa and nfl) . So say I grade Case Keenums passing for a game, that is checked off twice before the grades are even posted. This is for every position and snap per game. Every NFL team is a client and most NCAA teams are, with the AAF also coming on this yr.

It's not just watching football like we all do weekly and love, the coaches film comes in the night games are finished and that's when you do Player grades. When working games live you will do other processes like charting field coordinates, penalties, time of possession, pressures , etc.

It's a lot of work, I gained a ton of respect for the company after this season.[/QUOTE]How quickly after a game are the grades released?

Do supervisors review every play?

How are questions confusion about assignments resolved?

Do players and coaches have any input?

Are grades ever revised?

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

If we are talking numbers what does everyone think of ESPN and the QBR number for quarterbacks that has been around a half dozen or so years? I think it produces some really odd results and is basically useless. ESPN seems to be big on inventing their own grading system for everything no matter how useless it is.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220288]If we are talking numbers what does everyone think of ESPN and the QBR number for quarterbacks that has been around a half dozen or so years? I think it produces some really odd results and is basically useless. ESPN seems to be big on inventing their own grading system for everything no matter how useless it is.[/quote]

Qbr is pretty legit. QB Rating is more useless. PFF is good not great.

If you watch football long enough, your eyes won’t lie. I know one thing, the ability of coaching systems and O/D schemes really can affect the player. Getting guys to either play well in their system or developing around a player to exploit strength/cover weakness is a real thing. Which kinda leads to the point of some position unit working in unison than doing there own thing...which makes it harder to grade individual performances. But other times, natural talent is just that. But if that natural talent cannot be polished, then it may not be useful...ie the fastest WR on the field, but can’t route run.

That’s why grading a player...it’s a science , but there is art as well. And if you just stick to the science part...then you won’t be capturing the entire value of the player.

Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Most grades are released 3 days after games. So wed usually. Yes they review every play. And like Chico said it's not a perfect system, it's good but can get better. The company itself is growing and growing though and that's a good thing.

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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

A few rumblings about a Stef Diggs trade...


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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

Grading players is so subjective. Otherwise drafting players and signing free agents would be fool proof. Well it is not.
NFL Teams with professional scouts, coaches and talent evaluators get it wrong half of the time. PFF has to be less than that. So I am not going hold PFF grades as anything more than a not professional grade and more of an opinion of a nonprofessional.
There are certain stats like sacks that artificially elevate a players score when they can have serious weakness’ in their game. Trent Murphy or Preston Smith are the perfect example.
Alex Smith played on a great KC team that had a decent offensive line, great running game and talent all over the roster. They won a lot but never went far in the playoffs. Alex got a big contract on a banner stats year. But with us last year the team won with him but his passing game was not great to say the least. It wasn’t his talent, it was the talent around him was less. How do grade that PFF stat boy?

Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[QUOTE=itvnetop;1220291]A few rumblings about a Stef Diggs trade...


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Diggs brother even posted a photoshopped picture of him in a Skins uniform on Instagram

Rumors also saying Norman could be involved in a deal

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/dcf44deaf4f8a5290b3b8f82c5d31bb0.jpg[/IMG]


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Re: Redskins Free Agency Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1220293]Diggs brother even posted a photoshopped picture of him in a Skins uniform on Instagram

Rumors also saying Norman could be involved in a deal

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/dcf44deaf4f8a5290b3b8f82c5d31bb0.jpg[/IMG]


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Would love it.