Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

At this point extend him and give him a 'normal' offseason without reduced free agency (2010), lockout (2011), cap penalty (2012) and cap penalty + franchise QB recovering from surgery (2013). I get that it's making excuses but they also cannot be ignored when evaluating the team and results, especially considering the dumpster fire he inherited. Give him a 1-2 yr extension (with the contingency he replace Burns and probably Haslett) so it doesn't scare off free agents, if he craps the bed again next year just pull the chute then.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040846]Not quite. They were coming off a 5 win season in 2009 and a 4 win season in 2008.[/quote]

Wow, I am amazed anyone would think a team that made the playoffs in 5 of 7 years and went to a SB wasnt a perennial playoff contender.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040849]Wow, I am amazed anyone would think a team that made the playoffs in 5 of 7 years and went to a SB wasnt a perennial playoff contender.[/quote]

That team was in serious decline by the time he got there, why do you think they hired a new HC that came in and cleaned house?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040855]That team was in serious decline by the time he got there, why do you think they hired a new HC that came in and cleaned house?[/quote]

What you say is true but that doesnt take away the fact that they had been making regular playoff appearances and a SB. The bottom line is that when PC went to Seattle their team/organization was no where near as destroyed as what MS took over when he came to Wash. Nobody could turn around almost 20 years of demolition in 3 or 4 years.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040857]What you say is true but that doesnt take away the fact that they had been making regular playoff appearances and a SB. The bottom line is that when PC went to Seattle their team/organization was no where near as destroyed as what MS took over when he came to Wash. Nobody could turn around almost 20 years of demolition in 3 or 4 years.[/quote]

I'm having trouble understanding how a SB run in 2005 contributed in any way to Carroll totally revamping that team 5 years later. Again, that team was in decline when he got there, he flipped the roster and built a winner from top to bottom in that organization.

I can see if he came in and made minimal changes, but he didn't. He gutted that team from day one. Past success or failures had nothing to do with him turning them around.

It's quite possible to turn a team around in 3-4 years. Carroll is proof of that.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040859]I'm having trouble understanding how a SB run in 2005 contributed in any way to Carroll totally revamping that team 5 years later. Again, that team was in decline when he got there, he flipped the roster and built a winner from top to bottom in that organization.

I can see if he came in and made minimal changes, but he didn't. He gutted that team from day one. Past success or failures had nothing to do with him turning them around.

It's quite possible to turn a team around in 3-4 years. Carroll is proof of that.[/quote]

Seattle was in a 2 year decline when PC came in. Wash was in a 20 year decline when MS took over. The situations are not comparable in any way.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

My bottom line thought on the coaching is no way our team should be playing this bad and this inconsistent. There is no excuse for this bad

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=The Goat;1040788]I'm hoping they do touch the offense actually. Seeing our smaller, lighter oline get trucked, especially on passing downs, and our franchise QB get trucked shortly thereafter, game after game, I'm not a believer in Mikes version of the zone blocking system. And I think Alfmo will be a great back behind any (good oline). And we all agree wr talent needs to be added. So there's plenty of touching required on offense and defense.

This notion recently sprung up that our offense good to go, this same offense that could only score 3 points in a half against the lowly Vikings, already has my ass twitching.[/quote]

This is such a ridiculously retarded post that I can't comment on what you suggest with a straight face. Let's get rid of RGIII....LOL!!! Which brings me to my next point, kids, don't do drugs.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040844]PC did turnover the roster but they had some decent talent when he came in since they won their division in 2003,4,5,6,7 and went to SB XL in 2006. Obviously the were a perennial playoff contender when he took over. Not quite the case when MS took over the Skins.[/quote]

Like who?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040860]Seattle was in a 2 year decline when PC came in. Wash was in a 20 year decline when MS took over. The situations are not comparable in any way.[/quote]

You don't seem to realize the team Carroll runs now is completely different from the one that went to the SB in 2005. The front office on down, it's a new organization. So again I'll ask, what does that 2005 SB team and a few playoff runs have to do with what Carroll has been able to accomplish there?

Past successes or failures don't have an impact on the future of a team once a new regime has been in place for a reasonable amount of time and had time to turn over the roster. It's just excuses.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

The system for the Offensive line works. We just need a set of guards that are better at doing it.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040860]Seattle was in a 2 year decline when PC came in. Wash was in a 20 year decline when MS took over. The situations are not comparable in any way.[/quote]

I do agree that the Redskins situation is more complex than Seattle's, however, we made the playoffs in 2007 as well, it is not like we weren't a decent football team 6 years ago. To suggest that Mike is cleaning up messes from 8 years ago much less 20 is incorrect.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1040867]I do agree that the Redskins situation is more complex than Seattle's, however, we made the playoffs in 2007 as well, it is not like we weren't a decent football team 6 years ago. To suggest that Mike is cleaning up messes from 8 years ago much less 20 is incorrect.[/quote]

Exactly what I'm saying.

Outside of Moss and I believe K. Golston this team has been completely revamped under Shanahan's watch.

And we're supposed to believe what's holding us back right now is something that happened 10-20 years ago? Heck even 6-7 years ago under Gibbs? Considering the average player lasts 3 seasons that's two generations ago in football terms.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040864]Like who?[/quote]

BTW, on the subject of the Seattle Seahawks, here is their 2005 Super Bowl Roster:

[URL="http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/seattle-seahawks/roster/2005"]2005 Roster[/URL]

[URL="http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/seattle-seahawks/roster/2009"]2009 Roster[/URL]

2010 roster when Pete Carroll Took over:

[URL="http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/seattle-seahawks/roster/2010"]2010 Roster[/URL]

And their 2013 Roster:

[URL="http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster.html"]2013 Roster[/URL]

So if we look at the first year that Pete Carroll took over in 2010, there is a HUGE difference between that roster and the Super Bowl roster. Even so, there is a big difference between the 2009 roster and the 2010 roster. Honestly, looking at the differences between the rosters from 2005 onto the present, it doesn't support the theory that Pete Carroll was left with a core group of guys left over from the Super Bowl and playoff teams that he built the team around. Carroll did completely gut the team. If there is anybody left over from those playoff teams, you're talking about one, maybe two players at most.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040870]Exactly what I'm saying.

Outside of Moss and I believe K. Golston this team has been completely revamped under Shanahan's watch.

And we're supposed to believe what's holding us back right now is something that happened 10-20 years ago? Heck even 6-7 years ago under Gibbs? Considering the average player lasts 3 seasons that's two generations ago in football terms.[/quote]

Agreed. There is absolutely nothing from even 6 years ago that has to do with the current Redskins roster. The issues that the team is having is the roster and/or coaches on the defensive side of the ball and special teams. Replace those coaches and revamp that squad and this team is easily a perennial playoff team.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040870]Exactly what I'm saying.

Outside of Moss and I believe K. Golston this team has been completely revamped under Shanahan's watch.

And we're supposed to believe what's holding us back right now is something that happened 10-20 years ago? Heck even 6-7 years ago under Gibbs? Considering the average player lasts 3 seasons that's two generations ago in football terms.[/quote]

Of course this is a completely different team from a few years ago. What I'm talking about is how losing and winning can create a culture. That's how things that happened 2, 4, 6, 10 years ago can impact today's team.

There's a reason that team's like Denver and NE consistently win over long periods of time and with lots of different players and it because of their culture of winning.Teams like Oak, Wash and Clev have developed cultures of losing and because of that they continue to lose no matter who is on the roster.

Shanny has seemed to start to turn the Skins now ingrained culture of losing into a culture of winning. This change wont happen overnight and it wont be a linear progression but IMO its starting to happen.

[QUOTE=irish;1040860]Seattle was in a 2 year decline when PC came in. Wash was in a 20 year decline when MS took over. The situations are not comparable in any way.[/QUOTE]

But like Matty sAid the superbowl run had nothing to do with what PC inherited. Who cares if it had been 2 years or 20? A team in decline is a team in decline. The situations as far as recent success arent comparable, but the situations as far as what was there when Shanny and PC took over are completely comparable.

[QUOTE=irish;1040885]Of course this is a completely different team from a few years ago. What I'm talking about is how losing and winning can create a culture. That's how things that happened 2, 4, 6, 10 years ago can impact today's team.

There's a reason that team's like Denver and NE consistently win over long periods of time and with lots of different players and it because of their culture of winning.Teams like Oak, Wash and Clev have developed cultures of losing and because of that they continue to lose no matter who is on the roster.

Shanny has seemed to start to turn the Skins now ingrained culture of losing into a culture of winning. This change wont happen overnight and it wont be a linear progression but IMO its starting to happen.[/QUOTE]

The reason New England has sustained success over a long period of time is Tom Brady, not a "culture" of winning. When did Denver sustained such a run? Since Peyton got there they have been good - last year and this year. I think you are greatly over estimating the "winning breeds winning" theory. That holds true maybe over the course of a season, but not over the course of years. Even the Steelers had lousy teams for a decade or so in their history.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040863]This is such a ridiculously retarded post that I can't comment on what you suggest with a straight face. Let's get rid of RGIII....LOL!!! Which brings me to my next point, kids, don't do drugs.[/quote]

Usually just add schmuck like you to my ignore list and move on, but in this case I'm responding because there's absolutely nothing about what I said to indicate getting rid of RG.

Changing the offense to protect him for the long term, absolutely.

So long.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040885]Of course this is a completely different team from a few years ago. What I'm talking about is how losing and winning can create a culture. That's how things that happened 2, 4, 6, 10 years ago can impact today's team.

There's a reason that team's like Denver and NE consistently win over long periods of time and with lots of different players and it because of their culture of winning.Teams like Oak, Wash and Clev have developed cultures of losing and because of that they continue to lose no matter who is on the roster.

Shanny has seemed to start to turn the Skins now ingrained culture of losing into a culture of winning. This change wont happen overnight and it wont be a linear progression but IMO its starting to happen.[/quote]

Funny how our culture of winning in the 80s didn't carry over once Gibbs left.

I wonder why.

^was wondering myself where he came up with "get rid of rg-3"?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Agree Punch it in. If you want to talk about continuity and success, the Pats have had the leadership constant for over a decade.The Ravens could switch coaches and still succeed because the leadership and FO game plan never changed they are actually an anomaly in the NFL. Every team will go through rough patches. Like you said the Steelers didn't win didly squat their first 35 years of existence then they had the 70s and were quiet again till the mid 90s.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1040890]Funny how our culture of winning in the 80s didn't carry over once Gibbs left.

I wonder why.[/QUOTE]

This is an exception to the rule. We all know players and coaches dont breed winning, its who the Universe deems worthy!
Duh.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

The Patriots won 11 games (I think?) with Matt Cassell. There's more to that org than Brady.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=The Goat;1040889]Usually just add schmuck like you to my ignore list and move on, but in this case I'm responding because there's absolutely nothing about what I said to indicate getting rid of RG.

Changing the offense to protect him for the long term, absolutely.

So long.[/quote]

I went back and re-read your post. I apologize. Your use of "trucked" to me meant getting rid of. As in "trucking something out of town". That's where I assumed you meant getting rid of RGIII. But I'll say, it's not logical to complain about Mike's Zone Blocking scheme when it actually has been working. Alfred Morris rushing for over 1600 yards last year, and having another impressive year this year - the scheme is working fine. It's pass protection that's the issue, and that's coming from a lack in talent all across the line, not the scheme. These guys excel in run blocking, but not in pass blocking.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=The Goat;1040896]The Patriots won 11 games (I think?) with Matt Cassell. There's more to that org than Brady.[/quote]

They did win 11 that year and ironically missed the playoffs. That was on the back of their undefeated season so there was definitely more than just Tom Brady at work on that team.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040890]Funny how our culture of winning in the 80s didn't carry over once Gibbs left.

I wonder why.[/quote]

If what John Kent Cooke said was true, it sounds like the 'skins very nearly didn't have that winning culture in the 80's. Jack wanted Gibbs gone after the 0-5 start. I seem to wonder if Jack had actually acted upon his tendencies and fired Gibbs, would he have had the same tendencies that we felt Daniel Snyder has, which would be to switch coaches ever few years? After Gibbs retired, Pettibon had one chance and he was out. Provided, that was the worst year I had ever witnessed as a Redskins fan, but still, one shot and Richie was done. I think Norv got more of a chance because John was transitioning into being the owner and Jack was in failing health, but it sometimes makes me wonder what if Joe wasn't given that chance to turn things around in his first year.

That's why I keep going back to this thing with Mike Shanahan. Like Gibbs II before, Shanahan had more to do than simply coming in and coaching the team. It is/was a complete overhaul of the franchise. Why do people think switching a coach every three years helps with the overhaul process?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=punch it in;1040893]This is an exception to the rule. We all know players and coaches dont breed winning, its who the Universe deems worthy!
Duh.[/quote]

Ah yes that football god juju

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/14/baylor-could-be-bracing-for-a-redskins-rush-on-art-briles/]Baylor could be bracing for a Redskins rush on Art Briles | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE=The Goat;1040896]The Patriots won 11 games (I think?) with Matt Cassell. There's more to that org than Brady.[/QUOTE]

Of course it is not "only" tom brady. Dan Marino never won a superbowl- cant do it on your own. However 11-5 and winning the superbowl are two totally different worlds.
My point is that without Tom Brady New England does not turn their franchise around and it had nothing to do with being a "winning" franchise. He made them a winning franchise.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040903][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/14/baylor-could-be-bracing-for-a-redskins-rush-on-art-briles/"]Baylor could be bracing for a Redskins rush on Art Briles | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]


I doubt we do

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040903][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/14/baylor-could-be-bracing-for-a-redskins-rush-on-art-briles/"]Baylor could be bracing for a Redskins rush on Art Briles | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]


Can he keep the other team from scoring 35 points a game on us? I don't want him if he can't.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I don't want Briles he'l like 65, I want a coach here for 10 years

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040902]Ah yes that football god juju[/quote]

Closely akin to Jobu the baseball god.

[IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyAi9IkupezI4SwvRp17HrXYOqPFNSqTOEfaWgR1MQ-59pTLy3rOI3KyaJ[/IMG]

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1040911]I don't want Briles he'l like 65, I want a coach here for 10 years[/quote]

He's 57 now, why can't he coach for another 10 years?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

eh i guess he could

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

What's wrong with Raheem Morris for DC?

[quote=player_httr;1040913]closely akin to jobu the baseball god.

[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:and9gcqyai9ikupezi4swvrp17hrxyoqpfnsqtoefawgr1mq-59ptly3roi3kyaj[/img][/quote]

lmao

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

All things considered (and I took multiple weeks to come out in favor of a single candidate), I think I like Kevin Sumlin the best of all candidates. Bill O'Brien would be my second choice.

Also think Art Briles is a great coach and a decent fit. He'd be third on my wish list. Perry Fewell, who has done a fantastic job getting the Giants defense on track this year, would be my fourth choice. Ray Horton (Cleveland DC) would be five.

My top pick for offensive coordinator, pending his availability, would be Joe Philbin. Top pick for DC, also pending his availability, would be Wade Phillips. Or either of the HC candidates above, should they come available.

I don't care for much of this coaching staff, but I'd like to see Raheem Morris and Chris Forester return. I'd also offer Bobby Turner the opportunity to coach RBs under the new staff, though he's been very much tied at Shanahan's hip for a long time.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Was everybody here excited about our last college hire spurrier? Were people on board? Considered probably top 3 coach in college , more known as an offensive genius. I wasn't that excited and thought it might end as a disaster. It did. Im not sure about a college coach.