Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;790963]And an article by the NFLPA on Von Miller's decision to join the lawsuit. I know I am pro-owners, but read this and see if you see any justification from Von Miller, other than his agent and the great players Brady, Brees, and Manning asked him to put his name on the lawsuit. He doesn't make any attempt at explaining how it affects him, other than he's part of the "team" and wants to support his "team".

[url=http://proplayerinsiders.com/?p=7]Von Miller On Suing the NFL*|*Pro Player Insiders[/url]

Finally, the players legal response to the NFL's legal response to Brady v NFL is due in today. I am looking forward to seeing that.[/quote]

Good article. I highly doubt Von Miller's going to slip in the draft though. If so, I'm sure we would take him in a second at #10.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;790963]And an article by the NFLPA on Von Miller's decision to join the lawsuit. I know I am pro-owners, but read this and see [B]if you see any justification[/B] from Von Miller, other than his agent and the great players Brady, Brees, and Manning asked him to put his name on the lawsuit. He doesn't make any attempt at explaining how it affects him, other than he's part of the "team" and wants to support his "team".

[url=http://proplayerinsiders.com/?p=7]Von Miller On Suing the NFL*|*Pro Player Insiders[/url]

Finally, the players legal response to the NFL's legal response to Brady v NFL is due in today. I am looking forward to seeing that.[/quote]

Von Miller joining the lawsuit is perfectly rational even if you don't think he articulated his reasons in the article. Clearly Von Miller has a vested interest in securing his future earnings given "the league’s desire to implement a rookie wage scale that would apply to this year’s draft class."

There are no problems except the ones we create.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Looks like retired players are no fans of the NFL either. Apparently everyone wants to sue the NFL...I imagine NFL cities along with street vendors and parking garage owners will be next to sue.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6267354]Priest Holmes among four retirees to sue NFL, seek to join antitrust suit - ESPN[/url]

[QUOTE=saden1;791047]Looks like retired players are no fans of the NFL either. Apparently everyone wants to sue the NFL...I imagine NFL cities along with street vendors and parking garage owners will be next to sue.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6267354]Priest Holmes among four retirees to sue NFL, seek to join antitrust suit - ESPN[/url][/QUOTE]

I know you are smart enough to understand a few things:
1) there are several retired player groups, some led by George Martin, have been more in the owners camp, some more in the players camp and a third independent group that has spoken up mainly for pre-1993 retirees

And

2) joining that lawsuit is more about preserving the retirees rights than it is siding with the union. As it states in the article, the once the union and owners let the cba expire the retirees have to act or else (at a certain point) they would lose certain benefits

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;791048]I know you are smart enough to understand a few things:
1) there are several retired player groups, some led by George Martin, have been more in the owners camp, some more in the players camp and a third independent group that has spoken up mainly for pre-1993 retirees

And

2) joining that lawsuit is more about preserving the retirees rights than it is siding with the union. As it states in the article, the once the union and owners let the cba expire the retirees have to act or else (at a certain point) they would lose certain benefits[/quote]

Who said anything about siding with the union? Everyone is looking out for their own interest but some of us here think the owners care about the players when in fact "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is at play.

My previous posts on the subject are a treasure trove.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SmootSmack;790695]Well I guess that's one of the things that the owners supposedly want to change, to make the salary cap fixed, and not a percentage of revenue[/quote]

And that's because owners know the NFL is going to grow and giving a percentage to the cap yield less profits in the long run, rather than keeping a fixed cap while revenues continue to grow.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6270467&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_6270467]Report: NFLPA to soon begin paying players - ESPN[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Strike funds (or in this case lockout) are usually the first disappointment in this type situation

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6270527]Former Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs upset over lockout - ESPN[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/professional/attention-drew-brees-sam-huff-has-a-few-questions-for-you]Attention Drew Brees, Sam Huff has a few questions for you | Professional | NewJerseyNewsroom.com -- Your State. Your News.[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Obviously its the player vs the owners, but I wonder what the stance of the coaches around the NFL are? All the NFL teams are in the same boat, but we all know teams that aren't established are at more of a disadvantage during a work stoppage. If I was a coach on the hot seat, especially would a quick end to this CBA mess. At the same time you really cant piss off the boss or the player you attempt to coach. Probably better for them to stay out of it.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Today is the Super Bowl in April! Our referee will be Susan Nelson. The NFLPA has won the toss and will kick off. Let's hope that there are no wardrobe malfunctions. In other news, Jerry Jones is selling courtroom seating which does not exist.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/05/ten-things-to-know-about-the-wednesday-hearing/]Ten things to know about the Wednesday court hearing | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Lets hope something good happens

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

I see a one year return to the prior CBA and court mandated discussions during this time to finalize a new CBA for effect in year 2012, but this time with a deadline to agree on a deal. They miss the deadline, and they keep going back to the courts, which orders a temporary lifting of the lockout under conditions of the prior CBA for one year increments.

This happens, football happens. This doesn't, No football in the foreseeable future. Both sides are thick with knuckleheads that wont budge. Not really favorable during a standoff of these sorts.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Free Agency won't begin until June. The players will win this round but then the NFL will extend the lockouts by going after an appeal. I also hate that it's last years rules, with the final 4 in free agency and such.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/06/derrick-mason-calls-roger-goodell-a-joke/]Derrick Mason calls Roger Goodell “a joke” | ProFootballTalk[/url]


btw Adam S. just said "don't expect anything until June"

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;792242][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/06/derrick-mason-calls-roger-goodell-a-joke/]Derrick Mason calls Roger Goodell “a joke” | ProFootballTalk[/url]


btw Adam S. just said "don't expect anything until June"[/quote]

Hmmmm, June. I guess Adam S. is copying me. I'm only going to say this once Adam. STOP USING MY POST FOR YOUR STORIES!!>!>!>!>!>

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Here are the details of today's "resolution":

[B]1. Deny the Injunction (Keep the lockout in place)
[/B]
This would be put the NFL in the driver's seat for negotiation/settlement discussions...Simply, the lockout would continue: there will be no signings, no trades, no player workouts or rehabilitation at the facility, no contact between teams and players or agents. Nothing.

[B]2. Grant the Injunction (Lift the lockout)
[/B]
This is the result football fans want, although it is not as ideal as it sounds...The NFL will appeal this result to the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals. The question then becomes whether the NFL will resume business during appeal or whether the injunction is stayed (held), meaning more of the lockout.

Judge Nelson has great discretion here. She can grant the injunction and order it be enforced immediately - meaning the NFL must lift the lockout - regardless of appeal. Or she could stay the injunction (maintain the lockout) while the NFL appeals.

[B]3. Back to the NLRB
[/B]
Parallel to this entire courtroom drama has been the track the NFL pursuing an unfair labor practice charge in front of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB).

So, in short, there's 0.00000001% chance there will be free agency before the draft and more likely

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

What it all means for season ticket holders:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-season-ticket-policy-is-unchanged/2011/04/04/AFgD1ekC_story.html]Redskins, despite lockout, seek season ticket payments - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;792242][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/06/derrick-mason-calls-roger-goodell-a-joke/"]Derrick Mason calls Roger Goodell “a joke” | ProFootballTalk[/URL]


btw Adam S. just said "don't expect anything until June"[/quote]

I'm glad Mason called out this clown. Goodell is obsessed with his iron clad fist. There is a time and a place for it and now is not the time to be "crying" about a drug that doesn't even enhance performance.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;792323]I'm glad Mason called out this clown. Goodell is obsessed with his iron clad fist. There is a time and a place for it and now is not the time to be "crying" about a drug that[B] doesn't even enhance performance.[/B][/quote]

Clearly you have never taken HGH.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Referee Judge Nelson will issue her ruling in a couple of weeks.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfllockout]Judge: Lockout ruling to take "couple of weeks'' - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

The NFL's argument is only "this big."
[IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSh5e_c-_gEFvn5SAlTz9ETNw4j7I-8um9gGgcoGxKf8DiFWyha[/IMG]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Nelson orders a return to mediation.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110410_judge_nelson_will_order_sides_to_return_to_mediation_7765]Judge Nelson will order sides to return to mediation - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

It will be interesting to see how much Nelson and/or Cohen are involved.

[QUOTE=Lotus;792877]Nelson orders a return to mediation.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110410_judge_nelson_will_order_sides_to_return_to_mediation_7765]Judge Nelson will order sides to return to mediation - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

It will be interesting to see how much Nelson and/or Cohen are involved.[/QUOTE]

I expect she will keep it in the court's jurisdiction and push the owners towards the players. Also doubt Cohen gets another chance but that's all just my opinion...

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

This is some good news

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;792879]This is some good news[/quote]

Doubt it. At least one of the sides will find a way to mess this up. Though it's more likely that both will do their part to mess things up.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Talking is better than not talking, even if it's forced. Crazy that the gov't hammered out a deal but the NFL can't.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Mattyk;792891]Talking is better than not talking, even if it's forced. Crazy that the gov't hammered out a deal but the NFL can't.[/quote]

It took a date-with-disaster deadline for the government to move. Sadly the same may apply to the NFL.

Of course, the silver lining difference in situation is that the NFL standoff has Susan Nelson in the middle and she can kick some ass and take names.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Lotus;792898]It took a date-with-disaster deadline for the government to move. Sadly the same may apply to the NFL.

Of course, the silver lining difference in situation is that the NFL standoff has Susan Nelson in the middle and she can kick some ass and take names.[/quote]

Wish that this were the case - - but I doubt it.

She can suggest that the sides get together and talk but I doubt that she can order them to do so or else she will find both sides in contempt of court and put them all behind bars. [Come to think of it, THAT might solve this problem quickly...]

She cannot force either side to agree to anything when/if they do agree to any more negotiating on their own or with a mediator.

Plus, whatever she decides is going to face an appeal no matter which side sees itself as the "loser" here. It is even possible that her ruling will contain something that both sides find unpalatable such that both sides appeal the ruling.

No offense to Judge Nelson here, but she is but one cog in a much larger legal wheel that will turn for a while before all of this is settled - - outside of her courtroom...

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;792323]I'm glad Mason called out this clown. Goodell is obsessed with his iron clad fist. There is a time and a place for it and now is not the time to be "crying" about a drug that doesn't even enhance performance.[/quote]

lol...How'd I miss this gem?

/faceplam


My only question is why they are so adamant about implementing a HGH testing policy. Do they not know that's how the NFL got to where it's at? Because guys have been juicing and taking shit to enhance that level of play to where it impossible to believe? Lavar Arrington weighing in at 251 running a 4.54 in the 40 and people believe that's natural?...lol (Courtney Brown's numbers were even sicker)

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;792359]The NFL's argument is only "this big."
[IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSh5e_c-_gEFvn5SAlTz9ETNw4j7I-8um9gGgcoGxKf8DiFWyha[/IMG][/quote]

[quote=NC_Skins;792930]lol...How'd I miss this gem?

/faceplam


My only question is why they are so adamant about implementing a HGH testing policy. Do they not know that's how the NFL got to where it's at? Because [B]guys have been juicing and taking shit to enhance that level of play to where it impossible to believe[/B]? Lavar Arrington weighing in at 251 running a 4.54 in the 40 and people believe that's natural?...lol (Courtney Brown's numbers were even sicker)[/quote]

This picture also works nicely as a double entente, NC Skins, to describe how small the crotchular region is on all the 'roided out players.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;792929]Wish that this were the case - - but I doubt it.

She can suggest that the sides get together and talk but I doubt that she can order them to do so or else she will find both sides in contempt of court and put them all behind bars. [Come to think of it, THAT might solve this problem quickly...]

She cannot force either side to agree to anything when/if they do agree to any more negotiating on their own or with a mediator.

Plus, whatever she decides is going to face an appeal no matter which side sees itself as the "loser" here. It is even possible that her ruling will contain something that both sides find unpalatable such that both sides appeal the ruling.

No offense to Judge Nelson here, but she is but one cog in a much larger legal wheel that will turn for a while before all of this is settled - - outside of her courtroom...[/quote]

I don't disagree with anything that you said except that the concept of putting people behind bars goes too far. She does have the power to grant the injunction to end the lockout. Sure, that will be appealed, but that still means more forward progress than with Jerry Jones banging his fist and being totally uncooperative without penalty, as we saw before.

Plus, in the longer term she may be overseeing things as Doty did before. That creates a stick for both sides to play relatively nice and cooperatively.

Further, she can really damage the PR built up by either side. For example, if owners are in clear violation of her requests, it will be easy to perceive them as the greedy bad guys.

My original comparison was to the government shutdown threat, which had no referee with teeth in between the parties. Nelson may have limited teeth but they are better than no teeth at all.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

The sides have been sent to the Judge's chamber:

Cindy Boren:
Judge orders NFL, players to resume talks under supervision of mediator from federal court system in Minneapolis. [url=http://wapo.st/eHO5YV]NFL, players ordered to resume talks - The Washington Post[/url]

The judge's Bio (short and sweet) from Minnesota Court page:
[url=http://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/MDL-Guidant/judge-arthur-j-boylan.shtml]Guidant MDL | United States District Court - District of Minnesota[/url]

The definition of a Federal Magistrate (From Judgepedia - yeah I LOL@that)
[url=http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Federal_magistrate_judge]Federal magistrate judge - Judgepedia[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

So, who's going to send Matty and SmootSmack to mediation when they have their disagreements? LOL.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792930]lol...How'd I miss this gem?

/faceplam


My only question is why they are so adamant about implementing a HGH testing policy. Do they not know that's how the NFL got to where it's at? Because guys have been juicing and taking shit to enhance that level of play to where it impossible to believe? Lavar Arrington weighing in at 251 running a 4.54 in the 40 and people believe that's natural?...lol (Courtney Brown's numbers were even sicker)[/quote]

I've already been down this road with people on this board. HGH IS NOT a performance enhancer. It DOES NOT make you stronger. It DOES NOT make you run faster. The drugs that makes you stronger are certain types of steroids....trenbolone or tren, any type of test, d-bol, deca...those are the ones that makes you big and strong and might enhance performance... IF taken the right way, and the correct diet and the right type of training.

ALSO... believe it or not there are PLENTY guys out there that are natually 250 or bigger and can run fast and lift a ton of weight. Sounds like you've bought in to the media BS. lol.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;793125]I've already been down this road with people on this board. HGH IS NOT a performance enhancer. It DOES NOT make you stronger. It DOES NOT make you run faster. The drugs that makes you stronger are certain types of steroids....trenbolone or tren, any type of test, d-bol, deca...those are the ones that makes you big and strong and mighht enhance performance... IF taken the right way, and the correct diet and the right type of training.

ALSO... believe it or not there are PLENTY guys out there that are natually 250 or bigger and can run fast and lift a ton of weight. Sounds like you've bought in to the media BS. lol.[/quote]

You are correct sir. Not proud to say that I'm around this shit alot. HGH will not make you faster and stronger. Although with the proper diet and training your appearance is vastly different. Test, dbol deca. Those will enhance performance.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;793128]You are correct sir. Not proud to say that I'm around this shit alot. HGH will not make you faster and stronger. [B]Although with the proper diet and training your appearance is vastly different. [/B]Test, dbol deca. Those will enhance performance.[/quote]

True. If anything it's a drug that will lean you up and make your skin tighter around your muscles.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfan69;793125]I've already been down this road with people on this board. HGH IS NOT a performance enhancer. It DOES NOT make you stronger. It DOES NOT make you run faster. The drugs that makes you stronger are certain types of steroids....trenbolone or tren, any type of test, d-bol, deca...those are the ones that makes you big and strong and might enhance performance... IF taken the right way, and the correct diet and the right type of training. .[/quote]

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;793128]You are correct sir. Not proud to say that I'm around this shit alot. HGH will not make you faster and stronger. Although with the proper diet and training your appearance is vastly different. Test, dbol deca. Those will enhance performance.[/quote]

Not sure where either of you get your information regarding PEDs, but HGH will cause muscle (and bone) structure growth within your body. The reason it's so heavily used is because they don't test for it currently and never had a test for it until recently.

This muscle and bone structure growth ultimately makes you stronger. You want to know why Barry Bond's head size increased? It's because his bone structure increased allowing the muscle on his body to increase also. Taking HGH is like turning back the clock in time.

I'm not debating it whether you'll get more strength from a 6 week cycle of Deca/D-bol mix vs HGH. However, the HGH changes will be permanent (bone structure anyways), the Deca/D-bol results will not when one stops the cycle.

I've taken a 185lb guy and turned him into a 245lb monster. Within 6 months of him stopping steroids, this guy was down to almost his original size.

I don't condone steroids, nor do I judge people that use them. To each their own. The reason I know it's a big thing in the NFL is because there is a guy currently in the NFL I know. Matt Dodge. You might have heard of him, or seen him diving at DeSean Jackson's shoe strings as he ran by. This guy was a steroid freak here at ECU. You'd think he played outside linebacker with his size. When Matt's saying that HGH is prevalent in the NFL, I"m going to be inclined to believe him since he does the shit.


*links removed at request of owner* (81% muscle increase in studies...lol...not a enhancer folks)


I suggest you two look at what HGH can really do for the human body. I assure you, I haven't bought into any "media myths". I normally do my own research on the subject at hand.

Poster boy for HGH in the NFL. (David Boston)

[IMG]http://www.finder-people.info/_cache/D/img/y_images_David%20Boston_0.jpg[/IMG]
I still remember this article where Doctors could tell the skeleton structure had change from Ohio State and the NFL. (particularly the jawline)

A most likely candidate.

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t9D_ovmGhQE/Rq-Y5MJw_tI/AAAAAAAAKS4/i_nWYbePvMc/s400/LaRon+Landry.jpg[/IMG]