Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1232767]For argument's sake, on both sides (DO NOT MENTION FOX NEWS OR CNN OR YOU GET NEGATIVE POINTS), find some neutral sources (many, many of them exist) and tell me there's not still a MAJOR issue with what went down.[/quote]

This is an interesting take...................


[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-s-call-ukraine-s-zelenskiy-worries-anti-corruption-activists-n1060646[/url]


This timeline breakdown is another good one.............

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/24/full-trump-ukraine-timeline-now/[/url]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1232777]This is an interesting take...................


[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-s-call-ukraine-s-zelenskiy-worries-anti-corruption-activists-n1060646[/url]


This timeline breakdown is another good one.............

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/24/full-trump-ukraine-timeline-now/[/url][/quote]

LOL....from your first article : "There's a certain feeling of injustice"

FACT: Based on our treaty there is NO injustice. YOU can FEEL all you want, but FACTS trump that feeling.

Sorry

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Chico I can't decide if you're gullible, stupid, or delusional. But it's definitely one of those.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1232767]For argument's sake, on both sides (DO NOT MENTION FOX NEWS OR CNN OR YOU GET NEGATIVE POINTS), find some neutral sources (many, many of them exist) [B]and tell me there's not still a MAJOR issue with what went down[/B].[/quote]

I agree and it looks terrible. But was there a quid pro quo? that's a crime, I just need evidence...and folks should go to jail.

I just don't like the framing.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232782]I agree and it looks terrible. But was there a quid pro quo? that's a crime, I just need evidence...and folks should go to jail.

I just don't like the framing.[/quote]

Punishments like jail time will work their way out as an impeachment inquiry moves forward and more facts are brought to light. But set aside whether you think a crime was actually committed by the president for a second. I'd like to ask you whether you think you could vote for Trump again in 2020, knowing what you know now, having read the transcripts of the conversations with the Ukrainian president?

For crimes to result in punishment, our criminal justice system requires evidence. But voters don't, they just need to side with whichever candidate is more appealing (or, the lesser of two evils).

Given how bad you say this looks, could you vote for Trump again?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1232784]Punishments like jail time will work their way out as an impeachment inquiry moves forward and more facts are brought to light. But set aside whether you think a crime was actually committed by the president for a second. I'd like to ask you whether you think you could vote for Trump again in 2020, knowing what you know now, having read the transcripts of the conversations with the Ukrainian president?

For crimes to result in punishment, our criminal justice system requires evidence. But voters don't, they just need to side with whichever candidate is more appealing (or, the lesser of two evils).

Given how bad you say this looks, could you vote for Trump again?[/quote]

I think the whistler blower inquiry is legit and from matching what he said to the transcripts...most things match up. I don't think there is pressuring or a qpq...David French had a good article and said as a prosecutor he could walk it towards back starching. Its a stretch given executive powers. BUT its strange where multiple first hand accounts...state department and others were on the call listening in, would we think trump would commit an obvious crime in front of an audience?

Voting, meh too early to say. I listen to all the arguments...several have been eliminated and they are the socialist.

And hope Bernie gets better, he provides strong points of view even if I disagree with 98% of them. But want him to get well, he's a good dude at heart.

And to add, I might be delusional...I’ve been up since 430 and running reports and sql st since 6...coverage issue...my coffee intake is at heart attack level

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232787]I think the whistler blower inquiry is legit and from matching what he said to the transcripts...most things match up. I don't think there is pressuring or a qpq...David French had a good article and said as a prosecutor he could walk it towards back starching. Its a stretch given executive powers. BUT its strange where multiple first hand accounts...state department and others were on the call listening in, would we think trump would commit an obvious crime in front of an audience?

Voting, meh too early to say. I listen to all the arguments...several have been eliminated and they are the socialist.

And hope Bernie gets better, he provides strong points of view even if I disagree with 98% of them. But want him to get well, he's a good dude at heart.

And to add, I might be delusional...I’ve been up since 430 and running reports and sql st since 6...coverage issue...my coffee intake is at heart attack level[/quote]

Chico,

If the whistler blower is BS it will be discovered that's not for trump to decide and for him to say he wants to meet him is witness tampering the law is the law and it protects the whistle blower like it or not .Giuliani is trumps biggest nightmare ,he can't shut up.
Trump today asked china to investigate Biden....he is openly inviting other countries to interfere with our elections no press made that up turn on any station and you hear it for yourself. Trump has gone off the deep end and I believe it's becuase he knows he has gotten caught. Nixon acted the same way but not to this degree.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232779]LOL....from your first article : "There's a certain feeling of injustice"

FACT: Based on our treaty there is NO injustice. YOU can FEEL all you want, but FACTS trump that feeling.

Sorry[/quote]

LOL, from those two article's and video's .........that's what you took away??????:stop:

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1232810]Chico,

If the whistler blower is BS it will be discovered that's not for trump to decide and for him to say he wants to meet him is witness tampering the law is the law and it protects the whistle blower like it or not .Giuliani is trumps biggest nightmare ,he can't shut up.
Trump today asked china to investigate Biden....he is openly inviting other countries to interfere with our elections no press made that up turn on any station and you hear it for yourself. Trump has gone off the deep end and I believe it's becuase he knows he has gotten caught. Nixon acted the same way but not to this degree.[/quote]

I think its foolish to talk about Trump's character, he's unlikeable in every way..

But we need to understand what already happening...if there was an actual charge, it would be in the courts. Dems know there are no charges, laws unbroken...so they are moving to a "show" in attempts to hurt Trump electability. The 3rd hand account of the whistleblower's statement and Trump transcript (which He chose to make public...didn't hide or cover-up, etc.) are available...we need a crime now. You cant move the goal post now because trump is a despicable character, orange-man bad, or feelings hurt cause he was elected.



The U.S. Constitution provides impeachment as the method for removing the president, vice president, federal judges, and other federal officials from office. The impeachment process begins in the House of Representatives and follows these steps:
1.The House Judiciary Committee holds hearings and, if necessary, prepares articles of impeachment. [B][U]These are the charges against the official.[/U][/B]2.If a majority of the committee votes to approve the articles, the whole House debates and votes on them.
3.If a majority of the House votes to impeach the official on any article, then the official must then stand trial in the Senate.
4.[B]For the official to be removed from office, two-thirds of the Senate must vote to convict the official. Upon conviction, the official is automatically removed from office and, if the Senate so decides, may be forbidden from holding governmental office again.[/B]

The impeachment process is political in nature, not criminal. Congress has no power to impose criminal penalties on impeached officials. But criminal courts may try and punish officials if they have committed crimes.

The Constitution sets specific grounds for impeachment. They are “treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.” To be impeached and removed from office, the House and Senate must find that the official committed one of these acts.




Certainly if the President verbalized or wrote a threat to Ukrainian officials and in return provided/withheld aid...then that's a crime. From everything ive seen, this hasn't happened. Maybe something emerges...but don't you think we would have heard or known by now?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Interesting artical.............


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-nixon-gop-015041935.html[/url]


In The End, Nixon Walked Away For The Good Of His Party. Would Trump?


When the end came and Republicans told him they could not save him, President Richard Nixon agreed to walk away, in large measure for the good of his party.

Forty-five years later, what might the GOP expect from its current president accused of trying to rig a presidential election in his favor, should Donald Trump’s standing deteriorate to a similar level?

“He will burn it to the ground,” predicted one former Trump White House official.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232816]I think its foolish to talk about Trump's character, he's unlikeable in every way..

But we need to understand what already happening...

Certainly if the President verbalized or wrote a threat to Ukrainian officials and in return provided/withheld aid...then that's a crime. From everything ive seen, this hasn't happened. Maybe something emerges...but don't you think we would have heard or known by now?[/quote]


chico we know what's happening , you seem to be the one in denial.
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-analyst-andrew-napolitano-191336593.html[/url]


Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano says Trump's Ukraine call was both criminal and impeachable
USA TODAY William Cummings, USA TODAY,USA TODAY 2 hours 5 minutes ago



WASHINGTON – Fox News' senior judicial analyst, Andrew Napolitano, said Thursday that the summary released by the White House of a July 25 phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky demonstrates "both criminal and impeachable behavior" by Trump.

Though the president has said it was a "perfect call" and that the summary exonerates him, Napolitano said in an opinion piece that the call showed that Trump was guilty of violating campaign finance law, bribery and intimidating witnesses.

The former New Jersey judge's opinion made a social media splash because he works for a cable news network that is home to pro-Trump media figures like Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Jeanine Pirro and the hosts of "Fox & Friends." The article repeated several points Napolitano has made on air since the scandal broke.


Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano says Trump's Ukraine call was both criminal and impeachable

USA TODAY William Cummings, USA TODAY,USA TODAY 2 hours 5 minutes ago

WASHINGTON – Fox News' senior judicial analyst, Andrew Napolitano, said Thursday that the summary released by the White House of a July 25 phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky demonstrates "both criminal and impeachable behavior" by Trump.

Though the president has said it was a "perfect call" and that the summary exonerates him, Napolitano said in an opinion piece that the call showed that Trump was guilty of violating campaign finance law, bribery and intimidating witnesses.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

^G1, if the experts are saying it and its criminal....this is really simple...enough of the show, BRING charges and impeach.

Do the democrats have the balls to give the President due process...

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232844]^G1, if the experts are saying it and its criminal....this is really simple...enough of the show, BRING charges and impeach.

Do the democrats have the balls to give the President due process...[/quote]



LOL, meaning what?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

meaning move on from the inquiry...the facts as you see are there apparently

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1232852]meaning move on from the inquiry...the facts as you see are there apparently[/quote]

LOL, now you want it rushed threw ,no. The American people are going to make sure this sticks.


The facts are there whether you want to admit them or not Ray Charles can see that.