Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

just for discussion purposes, what is Russ Grimm doing now? Would our offense players work in his scheme?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040448]Totally agree. And if something like watching football is really causing people so much pain maybe they need to seriously reevaluate their priorities.[/quote]


Yep , I keep on going Win or Loss, hate to say it but nothing the skins or any team does on the field effects my life

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040444]I think most of you guys are all talk. [B]You know good and well you can't ever give up on the Redskins.[/B] And if you can, maybe football is just something that has never been that important to you to begin with. I don't see anybody who truly loves to watch football, and truly loves the Redskins, to say they're quitting cold turkey. Why? Will you truly fill that time with your spouse? With your kids? What if they want to watch football? I'm calling your bluff on this one. It means enough to you to waste time posting on a Redskins fan forum board - obviously time that could also be spent with the wife and kids. I don't see any of you guys ever saying sayonara! Sorry, but I'm not falling for it!

Look, the way the NFL is, everything happens in cycles. As much as you don't want to believe it, the good part of the cycle will come to this franchise - sooner rather than later.[/quote]
It is a.......strange bond is it not?
BUT, you're right....well done

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Only way I stop rooting for the team is if they change the name and logo's, colors etc.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Hog1;1040453]It is a.......strange bond is it not?
BUT, you're right....well done[/quote]

One thing that helps me is to go on You Tube (although they often take down the clips) and search for video clips, even full games, for the Redskins from the 80's and early 90's. It helps me to remind myself why it is I have such a strange but loyal bond with the team.

How I wish I could find someone who has a decent collection of these old games that would be willing to put them on DVD for me.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Only two things will stop me from rooting for the team: aging dementia and death.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040455]One thing that helps me is to go on You Tube (although they often take down the clips) and search for video clips, even full games, for the Redskins from the 80's and early 90's. It helps me to remind myself why it is I have such a strange but loyal bond with the team.

How I wish I could find someone who has a decent collection of these old games that would be willing to put them on DVD for me.[/quote]

I have 30games from '80's on vhs

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

You'd think a coach with two SB rings could muster up a good enough team to win this panzy a$$ division. This is the worst this division has been in a decade and we cant win it. wtf. Im waiting outside the liquor store til it opens whos with me??

[QUOTE=CrustyRedskin;1040497]You'd think a coach with two SB rings could muster up a good enough team to win this panzy a$$ division. This is the worst this division has been in a decade and we cant win it. wtf. Im waiting outside the liquor store til it opens whos with me??[/QUOTE]

Im in.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=punch it in;1040498]Im in.[/quote]

:food-smil

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;1040497]You'd think a coach with two SB rings could muster up a good enough team to win this panzy a$$ division. This is the worst this division has been in a decade and we cant win it. wtf. Im waiting outside the liquor store til it opens whos with me??[/quote]

Yeah but he won those a long time ago with one of the best QB's ever. You think Tom Coughlin and the Giants aren't saying the same thing?

Even though I really don't want to see it, I think Shanahan gets 5 years. To be fair, he should get a offseason with free agency money, and one where RG3 isn't doing rehab.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;1040497]You'd think a coach with two SB rings could muster up a good enough team to win this panzy a$$ division. This is the worst this division has been in a decade and we cant win it. wtf. Im waiting outside the liquor store til it opens whos with me??[/quote]

Unfortunately, those wins were a long, long time ago. For all his hype, the man has won one playoff game, just one, in the last fourteen seasons, soon to be fifteen. And many of those years he has had much more talented teams than this one.

The game has clearly passed him by and that's more and more evident with each passing game. But he's also arrogant and that's a lousy combination. To think that the Giants were recently a laughaboe 0-6 and now the Skins are tied with them for last place in the worst division in football. This franchise has been in a slow death spiral for two decades and nothing is going to change.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1040468]I have 30games from '80's on vhs[/quote]

Hhhmmmm....any way you could make me a copy of those games? I would love to have them. They don't stay up long enough on You Tube.

Try this: If you were a shareholder in a corporation and your management team reported to you that 'things hadn't gone as planned, that they need to go back to the drawing board', not once or twice but repeatedly, at what point would you pull your investments?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1040552]Try this: If you were a shareholder in a corporation and your management team reported to you that 'things hadn't gone as planned, that they need to go back to the drawing board', not once or twice but repeatedly, at what point would you pull your investments?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

I'm not a shareholder in the corporation, so I could care less. I watch football because I enjoy it, watered down or not. It's a once-a-week 3 hour break from reality, and only something that I'm guaranteed to see 16 times a year. Lousy team or not, I'm going to keep watching until, like Lotus said, aging dementia or death claims me.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/fred-smoot-compares-mike-shanahan-grandma-t-cook-194642968--nfl.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

LMAO Smoot always had a mouth

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1040552]Try this: If you were a shareholder in a corporation and your management team reported to you that 'things hadn't gone as planned, that they need to go back to the drawing board', not once or twice but repeatedly, at what point would you pull your investments?
[/quote]

LOL! What do you have invested in the Washington Redskins? Your time spent watching the games? Maybe a couple of bucks thrown to DirecTV for NFL Sunday Ticket? If it's causing that much grief, by all means, you should quit now before it gets worse. SMH! :doh:

Look, as much as I'm a fan of this team and as much as those glory years meant to me as a kid growing up watching this team play - in the end, it's freakin' entertainment for me. I'm a fan. I don't work for the Washington Redskins. I don't know any of the players/coaches personally. My investment of time is very minuscule compared to the hours I spend volunteering, working, spending time with my family, etc... It's how I want to spend my free time. It's OK if you don't want to spend the few hours you do during a small part of the year on the Washington Redskins anymore. If that makes you feel better about yourself. But geez...it's not any investment that's going to make a difference when it's all said and done.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1040503]Yeah but he won those a long time ago with one of the best QB's ever. You think Tom Coughlin and the Giants aren't saying the same thing?

Even though I really don't want to see it, I think Shanahan gets 5 years. To be fair, he should get a offseason with free agency money, and one where RG3 isn't doing rehab.[/quote]

I hope MS gets 5 years, let him spend some of that $$$.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Ah chara Warpath!

After years of visiting the site and seeing the fantastic craic that’s had, not to mention the many insightful debates that go on, I finally thought I’d take the plunge and post myself.

It sucks that the organisation has seen so many changes for change sake over the years, as it perhaps makes the path forward that bit more difficult to see with real clarity which direction is best.

Had Mike been allowed to spend freely in FA the past 2 off-seasons and the team still be performing as it is now, then the decision to cut him loose would likely be a no-brainer. I for one am swaying towards wanting to see how this team would look if a better calibre of player hand picked by Shanny could be had, but then at the same time, I keep asking has he done enough in the almost 4 full seasons to justify being allowed to return and spend that money in 2014?

Then there’s the suggestions that the game has passed him by etc, and that could be accurate to an extent. It’s no coincidence that folk on here, as well as John Keim (amongst others) have highlighted issues with the line (to name one) being overwhelmed by guys who are stronger, but just as quick, which in turn nulifies the kind of personnel Shanny opts for i.e. undersized but athletic guys. Is this a sign then that his famed scheme which worked so effectively for him in Denver during the 90’s is an old school approach and he’s unable to adjust?

Maybe. I do know though that last season proved that he (and of course Kyle, but we’ll just focus on Snr for now) is still capable of putting together an offense that can go toe to toe with most in the league. Again however, the flip side makes me ask was that simply a combination of momentum and good fortune? I don’t believe so personally. I saw too many good things from too many players (even average ones). So where do the issues lie then?

I guess it’s normal when there seems to be no answers that that’s when most questions arise.

On a side note, one name I haven’t seen on anyone’s lists is Mike Zimmer. Wasn’t he considered someone who was sure to get a HC gig at some point not so long ago? Just curious as personally speaking, if the team were to move on from Mike then I’d like to see a defensive guy take over, albeit with an up and coming young mind as offensive co-ordinator ah-la Phil Montgomery or David Shaw.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

You bring some very reasonable and salient points to the table SP. Glad you decided to speak your mind on the board. By seasons end hopefully the picture of what we "should" will become clearer, right?
WELCOME to the WP
and..............HTTR!

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Cheers Hog1!

I've only been following the team/game since '08 admittedly but through the conversations had here I've gotten a sense of just how disappointing things have been for 'Skins fans for too long.

A team with such a rich history and great fanbase as this deserves better and like yourself and everyone else, I can only hope the positives from last season were the first building block towards achieving something special rather than another "what if".

HTTR!

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Starry Plough;1040681]Cheers Hog1!

I've only been following the team/game since '08 admittedly but through the conversations had here I've gotten a sense of just how disappointing things have been for 'Skins fans for too long.

A team with such a rich history and great fanbase as this deserves better and like yourself and everyone else, I can only hope the positives from last season were the first building block towards achieving something special rather than another "what if".

HTTR![/quote]

Welcome! Excellent opening posts. Only a fan since 2008? Well, at least we know your not here for the bandwagon.

By all accounts, MS changed the culture around Redskin Park from the zoo it was under Cerrato. No small accomplishment and something I think too many discount. At the same time, this is a production based business. Regardless of adversity, MS needs to win. If he rips off another win streak, he will get his 5th year (and extension) but, regardless of cap penalties, a third losing record in 4 years should be the end game.

Hopefully, if transition comes, it will not be another descent into chaos.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Starry Plough;1040662]Had Mike been allowed to spend freely in FA the past 2 off-seasons and the team still be performing as it is now, then the decision to cut him loose would likely be a no-brainer. I for one am swaying towards wanting to see how this team would look if a better calibre of player hand picked by Shanny could be had, but then at the same time, I keep asking has he done enough in the almost 4 full seasons to justify being allowed to return and spend that money in 2014?[/quote]

Welcome to the debate, SP!

I think that what you posted above is pretty much the heart of the matter. How much was the program set back by the $36M cap penalty? I tend to side with you in leaning toward another year for Shanny. I want to find out what he can do by adding a strong FA group and another draft class prior to next season. Honestly, I'm just not emotionally prepared to start over again.

Of course, there are other concerns besides player personnel that I would hope to see addressed in the off-season but upgrading the roster is paramount, IMO.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Sure to be an unpopular opinion but worth the debate

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahans-contract-should-be-extended-to-provide-stability-to-washington-redskins/2013/11/12/fa11b9b6-4bd5-11e3-be6b-d3d28122e6d4_story.html]Mike Shanahan’s contract should be extended to provide stability to Washington Redskins - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1040685]Welcome! Excellent opening posts. Only a fan since 2008? Well, at least we know your not here for the bandwagon.

By all accounts, MS changed the culture around Redskin Park from the zoo it was under Cerrato. No small accomplishment and something I think too many discount. At the same time, this is a production based business. Regardless of adversity, MS needs to win. If he rips off another win streak, he will get his 5th year (and extension) but, regardless of cap penalties, a third losing record in 4 years should be the end game.

Hopefully, if transition comes, it will not be another descent into chaos.[/quote]

Yup, still very much a newbie admittedly lol. The games popularity on these shores has only really gathered momentum from around 2010 but even I’m amazed by how much it’s taken off what with the coverage on a host of channels and of course the Wembley games. If I could liken it to anything it’d be the scene in Fight Club when Ed Norton starts realising the subtle signs that more and more colleagues etc are “involved” lol.

I actually remember December ’09 returning from a work lunch and the news had just broke that Vinny was done! Again, I’d relied on so much background on the team from this site and it was evident just how jubilant everyone was that Snyder had finally acknowledged what a big part of the problem was and made efforts to eliminate it. At that time Mike coming on board was the worst kept secret and I absolutely credit the man for the changes he has made. I’d also like to see him finish the job but as you say, he’s not giving himself much of a chance right now and each passing game becomes even more significant as to what is going to happen next season as much as this.

I do believe if there are wholesale changes on the horizon though, that enough of a stable foundation has been laid by Mike. In particular his bringing predominately positive locker room characters in, which would hopefully ensure the environment is a more manageable one for the next guy if that’s the case.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

^ I believe he should be. People forget how bad things were when he took over and about the cap penalty. He's put some great young talent in place with the limited draft picks Vinny left us and managed to get us the first franchise QB we've had since Joe Theismann.

Haslett's 3-4 conversion has been a disaster, so we definitely need to reset that side of the ball, but Shanahan has done a fantastic job in my opinion. Kyle's playcalling has been suspect too, so we can do without him if we need to make changes, but Mike should stay and get the opportunity to finish what he has started. I'd be fine with him taking back playcalling from his son too.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Great feeback guys!

Just curious to what you think, but if Mike accepts he picked the wrong guy to run the D, will he be so willing to accept he made the same mistake on the other side of the ball and move on from both Haslett and Kyle in the same off-season?

Again, curiosity based as much on the obvious family ties to the latter as anything.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Welcome Starry Plough! I'm in the category of keeping Mike Shanahan for at least his last season. My thoughts seem to be that Mike is "hands off" when it comes to the defense. I'm sure he has some input into bringing defensive personnel to the team, but I tend to believe that he relies heavily on Jim Haslett to take care of that side of the ball. I might be completely wrong on that, but it seems that way considering how much more improved the offense is compared to the defense.

When Joe Gibbs was coaching in his second tenure, the main complaint amongst many Redskins fans here was that his offense was anemic. The defense was always a top 10 defense [Gregg Williams being the DC] that kept the Redskins in every game they played, but the offense was unspectacular. We even had fans saying they'd rather see the Redskins lose but put up 30+ points and be entertained than what they were seeing out of Joe Gibbs' teams.

With that said, we ['skins fans] have gotten what we have asked for. An offense that can move the ball easily and put up points, an offense that entertains us and is spectacular, but a team that still finds ways to lose games. I would probably ask those 'skins fans who were the loudest boo birds during the Gibbs' era, how entertained are you now?

Where I think Mike's downfall lies is that he expects the defensive coordinator to be in full control; to bring in the guys on defense he wants, to bring in the defensive philosophy that he feels works best, and to have the defense playing top ten football. That hasn't happened. So, do we blame Mike Shanahan for the defense, or do we blame the front office for supplying Mike with Jim Haslett? I guess that is the real question. If it was the front office telling Mike that Jim is the best option, roll with Haslett and see what he can do for you, then I find it difficult to blame Shanahan for Haslett's inability to improve the defense.

That's why I feel the 'skins keep Mike Shanahan with the caveat that Jim Haslett is jettisoned by the end of the season in favor of a better defensive coordinator, or that if the 'skins keep Jim Haslett on, Mike Shanahan becomes more involved on the defensive side of the ball, because obviously Haslett needs help.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040696]I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!!

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Ok, I’ve been convinced. Shanny stays lol!

Cheers again to all for the kind welcomes btw.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1040701]I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!![/quote]
Well said, and all those factor add up, even though it seems like there are people who discount all or some of it. I don't know about an extension, but it sure seems like MS ought to get to finish his contract.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I'm still on the fence, I think the team needs to show something in these last 7 games.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1040700]Welcome Starry Plough! I'm in the category of keeping Mike Shanahan for at least his last season. My thoughts seem to be that Mike is "hands off" when it comes to the defense. I'm sure he has some input into bringing defensive personnel to the team, but I tend to believe that he relies heavily on Jim Haslett to take care of that side of the ball. I might be completely wrong on that, but it seems that way considering how much more improved the offense is compared to the defense.

When Joe Gibbs was coaching in his second tenure, the main complaint amongst many Redskins fans here was that his offense was anemic. The defense was always a top 10 defense [Gregg Williams being the DC] that kept the Redskins in every game they played, but the offense was unspectacular. We even had fans saying they'd rather see the Redskins lose but put up 30+ points and be entertained than what they were seeing out of Joe Gibbs' teams.

With that said, we ['skins fans] have gotten what we have asked for. An offense that can move the ball easily and put up points, an offense that entertains us and is spectacular, but a team that still finds ways to lose games. I would probably ask those 'skins fans who were the loudest boo birds during the Gibbs' era, how entertained are you now?

Where I think Mike's downfall lies is that he expects the defensive coordinator to be in full control; to bring in the guys on defense he wants, to bring in the defensive philosophy that he feels works best, and to have the defense playing top ten football. That hasn't happened. So, do we blame Mike Shanahan for the defense, or do we blame the front office for supplying Mike with Jim Haslett? I guess that is the real question. If it was the front office telling Mike that Jim is the best option, roll with Haslett and see what he can do for you, then I find it difficult to blame Shanahan for Haslett's inability to improve the defense.

That's why I feel the 'skins keep Mike Shanahan with the caveat that Jim Haslett is jettisoned by the end of the season in favor of a better defensive coordinator, or that if the 'skins keep Jim Haslett on, Mike Shanahan becomes more involved on the defensive side of the ball, because obviously Haslett needs help.[/quote]

Gibbs 2.0 is a big part of why this organization is still playing talent catch-up.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Gibbs second run was ages ago in football terms. Time to put that in the rearview. What's happened in the last 3-4 years is much more relevant.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Gibbs took the team to 2 playoff appearances

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040713]Gibbs second run was ages ago in football terms. Time to put that in the rearview. What's happened in the last 3-4 years is much more relevant.[/quote]

Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040719]Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.[/quote]

What sort of long term effects are we still feeling from 6 years ago?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=irish;1040719]Of course its more relevant because its more recent but instead of helping to dig the Skins out of the hole, Gibbs 2.0 dig it even deeper.[/quote]

Man your talking about ancient history. The Saints went from 3-13 to SB champions in the span of 4 years, I think that shows just how quick you can turn things around in the NFL. If Gibbs did mess up the roster that badly, which he didn't, we've easily had more than enough time to turn it around. Fletcher and Moss are the only two players remaining from that era.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1040720]What sort of long term effects are we still feeling from 6 years ago?[/quote]

Its all those given away draft picks and young players that might have been Skins who might now be leaders on this team. Of course its impossible to know what might have been I feel like the Skins could have built their future through the draft and develop their team the way other successful teams do. Kind of like compounded interest on a savings account.