Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803474]Belichick even claims that they were tempted to go with Brady coming out of camp the year Bledsoe lost his job, but the only thing that held them back was Tom's inexperience. Take it for what it's worth.

Actually I will say this at Beck. I've been looking at 1st and 2nd round bust the past week and almost all of them it was easy to explain why they failed. Here's what I came up. Remember hindsight is 20/20.

David Carr - Inexperience. Started only two years in a mid major.

Joey Harrington - Sub 60% passer in a west coast offense. That should have been a huge red flag.

Marques Tuiasosopo - [URL="http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=3923"]Numbers [/URL]made fellow Washington Alum Jake Locker look all world. Shouldn't have even been drafted before the 7th round.

Quincy Carter - [URL="http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=656"]Numbers [/URL]make Tuiasosopo look All-World. Completed under 50% of his passes his senior year with a 6:10 TD:Int Ratio

Patrick Ramsey - 2 year starter sub 60% passer.

Byron Leftwish - Had virtually everything. Arm strength, intangibles, production, experience. Even started his career well leading Jacksonville to 9-7 and 12-4 records. However injuries started to pile up, and combined with his slow release and non-existent mobility he lost his job.

Kyle Boller - Lol

Rex Grossman - Well he made it to the Super Bowl but his TD:Int ratio was a little high his final year at Florida. 22:17

JP Losman - Another inexperienced big arm passer with no accuracy.

Alex Smith - Spread QB that didn't start enough games. On one hand probably should have stayed in school on the other hand he's now financially secure.

Jason Campbell - Sorry don't recognize that name.

Matt Leinart - Should have made it. Played enough games, was productive, experienced in a pro style offense. However McShay has said the two biggest reasons for bust are injury and character problems. Leinart fell victim to the latter. Now a days his confidence his shot to hell. Captain Checkdown is an understatement. He's more like Admiral Checkdown or General Checkdown. Maybe President Checkdown.

Okay this is dragging on. I guess Beck might have just been in a bad situation at Miami. On paper he should succeed. He's intelligent, hard working, strong armed (second strongest arm at 2007 combine via radar gun), didn't start his college career as the most accurate passer (56% first year as a starter) but then experienced a quantum leap in years 3 and 4 (64.5 and 69.3). He also worked under Center and started for 3 years. He showed anticipation on throws. He could move enough to buy time.

Basically the only two knocks were he wasn't the worlds tallest QB (6'2) and he didn't play in the SEC. Oh and he was old when he came out.

He basically had everything you look for in a college QB so the only reason I can guess as to why he flamed out in Miami is because he was on one of the worst teams in NFL history. I mean sure he didn't win a game as a rookie but the other Miami QB's combined for 1 win, and Trent Green started 5 games for them that year.[/quote]Beck was a 25 year old senior playing against 18-21 year olds in the MWC. His attributes were more developed and defined than anyone he was playing against at that level. That's an advantage he will never have at the NFL level.

Beck has the raw physical tools to succeed in the NFL, but he's been on an NFL roster longer than (to put a name out there) Tony Romo was before he was put in the starting lineup. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 2007 season in Miami: Beck was worse than Cleo Lemon, but again, it was three years ago. But also: it was three years ago. And Beck, with all his advantages (second round pick, live arm, college productivity) wasn't able to make positive progress on an NFL depth chart in a very long period of time.

So it's not like we know nothing about John Beck. We'll learn more if we play him, but you kind of already know what to expect.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;803477]Beck was a 25 year old senior playing against 18-21 year olds in the MWC. His attributes were more developed and defined than anyone he was playing against at that level. That's an advantage he will never have at the NFL level.

Beck has the raw physical tools to succeed in the NFL, but he's been on an NFL roster longer than (to put a name out there) Tony Romo was before he was put in the starting lineup. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 2007 season in Miami: Beck was worse than Cleo Lemon, but again, it was three years ago. But also: it was three years ago. And Beck, with all his advantages (second round pick, live arm, college productivity) wasn't able to make positive progress on an NFL depth chart in a very long period of time.

So it's not like we know nothing about John Beck. We'll learn more if we play him, but you kind of already know what to expect.[/quote]

Preach.

And people like to talk about how Beck got screwed over because the Dolphins brought in Pennington. But forget that even before that Beck had been demoted because Miami felt journeyman QB Josh McNown was worth signing in free agency in naming the starter. So he was already on the bench when Pennington arrived.

I hope he proves me wrong and turns out to be a total stud if he's our starter, but I really just don't see it. I'd rather just sign a guy like Matt Moore who at least is 3 years younger than Beck

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803479]Preach.

And people like to talk about how Beck got screwed over because the Dolphins brought in Pennington. But forget that even before that Beck had been demoted because Miami felt journeyman QB Josh McNown was worth signing in free agency in naming the starter. So he was already on the bench when Pennington arrived.

I hope he proves me wrong and turns out to be a total stud if he's our starter, but I really just don't see it. [B]I'd rather just sign a guy like Matt Moore who at least is 3 years younger than Beck[/B][/quote]

I see, so age discrimination is a regular practice at ESPN? Smootsamck I am Disapoint.

Still I think the Miami brass looses all credibility when they bring in Josh McNown. Seriously I hate that guy, I don't know why but it's like he gets 7 billion chances and still does nothing.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803484]I see, so age discrimination is a regular practice at ESPN? [B]Smootsamck I am Disapoint.[/B]

Still I think the Miami brass looses all credibility when they bring in Josh McNown. Seriously I hate that guy, I don't know why but it's like he gets 7 billion chances and still does nothing.[/quote]

Should I redirect you to the Drunk Thread?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803486]Should I redirect you to the Drunk Thread?[/quote]

nO, PLeaSE REdIRECT Me TO the "Help" thread. Siierously a thread whose tiTle is HElp woUld B AWESOEM

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

It's my belief the Redskins are content in utilizing patience in their search for a long term solution at the QB position. There's no urgent need to parade in any of the journeymen QB's now available when none of them [at least for this season] would provide any more relief at the position than what they already have.

For those who suggest neither Beck or Grossman are the long term solution, many will agree. However, for this year with all the various complications and set-backs the lockout has produced, having two QB's on the roster [though Grossman is unsigned] with knowledge of the system is IMO the better way to proceed. I cannot envision any QB that's available coming into this situation with limited knowledge having any substantial impact.

I trust Allen/Shanahan will continue to exhibit both patience and dilegence in their search for the next QB to lead this team.....no need to rush, haste makes waste as has been demonstrated more often than not.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Seems to me we have a good poker game going on here. If I were a HC and needed to upgrade the QB position through trade or FA would I yell out "Someone, anyone, please help!"? No, I would say" Oh a quarterback? Nah, we're set with what we have. QB A is a smart, physical talent that I knew one day would get the opportunity to start. He's going to get the chance to prove he can start." Why tell your trading partners/sports agents that their product is more in demand? That just drives up the asking price. I think Shannahan is basically bluffing saying that he's "not interested but make us an offer anyway."

But that's just me making things more difficult than what they really are.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Love this pic:

[IMG]http://billionaires-static.forbes.com/imageserve/01P22CGdCV5MD/350x.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Notice who has the ball. Is that a sign of what's coming this year?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;803519]It's my belief the Redskins are content in utilizing patience in their search for a long term solution at the QB position. There's no urgent need to parade in any of the journeymen QB's now available when none of them [at least for this season] would provide any more relief at the position than what they already have.

For those who suggest neither Beck or Grossman are the long term solution, many will agree. However, for this year with all the various complications and set-backs the lockout has produced, having two QB's on the roster [though Grossman is unsigned] with knowledge of the system is IMO the better way to proceed. I cannot envision any QB that's available coming into this situation with limited knowledge having any substantial impact.

I trust Allen/Shanahan will continue to exhibit both patience and dilegence in their search for the next QB to lead this team.....no need to rush, haste makes waste as has been demonstrated more often than not.[/quote]Just stop it, logic and common sense have no place in a QB thread!!!!

Great post BTW.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803447]Why are people really hating on Beck? The guy was a highly rated talent that hasn't had a decent opportunity to play. [B]This isn't like he's played 3 years and absolutely sucked, much like VY has[/B]. (or at least Jeff Fischer thinks so)[/quote]

Rookie of the Year

Two Pro Bowls

30-17 career record as a starter

.....yeah, he sucks!!!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Jason Reid said on SC that Beck is the guy no matter who is in camp.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;803648]Jason Reid said on SC that Beck is the guy no matter who is in camp.[/quote]

Well he's the only guy who is signed but he's definitely not locked in as the starter for the season

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=smootsmack;803650]well he's the only guy who is signed but he's definitely not locked in as the starter for the season[/quote]


v i n c e

y o u n g !!!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6560306]Can John Beck Lead The Redskins? - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

Schefter is buddies with Shanny so this is pretty strong statement here about Beck.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;803663]v i n c e

y o u n g !!![/quote]

2 or 3 months at most to learn the offense. I feel like the best scenario for Young is bring him in for a two year contract. Tell him to expect to wait a year but also leave open the possibility of him starting by mid-season, especially if Grossman and/or Beck can't outperform 2010 McNabb which sadly isn't much of a challenge.

One thing though I can't believe that people are overlooking is how improved the defense is going to be. We have a Free Saftey, a Pass Rusher opposite Orakpo, and a big body at defense end to prevent teams from simply running away from Carriker. Bryant and Neild might not be the worlds greatest situation at Nose Tackle but it's hard to deny how much the defense improved when Bryant was inserted into the lineup during the last 3 or 4 weeks of the season.

Then you factor in the possible free agent signings of Franklin and Cullen Jenkins and the skies the limit for this defense. Also possible that they'll sign Nnadmi but after years in Oakland I think he simply wants to go to an established competitor.....with money.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803693][url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6560306]Can John Beck Lead The Redskins? - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

Schefter is buddies with Shanny so this is pretty strong statement here about Beck.[/quote]

Beck has not had the opportunity to learn many bad habits as an NFL QB. Maybe Shanahan can do for John Beck what he did for Jake Plummer. Plummer's winning percentage improved greatly his second year in Denver.

Shanahan/McNabb was a case of not being able to teach an old dog new tricks.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I get disgusted looking at our last decade of stats

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803693][url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6560306]Can John Beck Lead The Redskins? - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

Schefter is buddies with Shanny so this is pretty strong statement here about Beck.[/quote]

I don't know that it's a strong statement, really. McNabb is basically out the door and technically Rex Grossman isn't on the team. I mean he is, but once the lockout is lifted he's a free agent. Though I fully expect he'll return. By process of elimination, Beck is atop the depth chart right now.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;803644]Rookie of the Year

Two Pro Bowls

30-17 career record as a starter

.....yeah, he sucks!!![/quote]

You are using the "Pro-bowl" as your proof he's good?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=0011&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]

I challenge you to look through the years starting with 2006 and see where he ranks (in AFC alone) in terms of QB. He's not even remotely close to the other QBs. Hell, Garrard is a better QB than Young. The only way he got into the Pro-Bowl is if Brady, Rivers, Manning, Palmer, Garrard, etc decline the Pro-bowl invite. As far as that record goes, sure that had nothing to do with a top notch defense and a guy who rushes for 2,000 yards. Nope. Fischer nor Chow wanted to draft Young at the time. You can thank Bud Adams for that fiasco.

Also, that Rookie of the Year crap was a sham.


51.5 completion %, 12 TDs, 13 Ints, 2199 yards, 66.7 QB rating

....compared to this rookies numbers

941 yards rushing, 5.7 avg, 15 TDs, 46 receptions, 436 yards receiving


Now who do you think deserved Rookie of the Year? I"m going with Maurice Jones Drew. Stop buying the smoke they are blowing up your ass. It's all hype.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803698]I don't know that it's a strong statement, really. McNabb is basically out the door and technically Rex Grossman isn't on the team. I mean he is, but once the lockout is lifted he's a free agent. Though I fully expect he'll return. By process of elimination, Beck is atop the depth chart right now.[/quote]

SS what turns u off of Johnny B? Other than he hasnt done much more than us in the NFL?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;803701]SS what turns u off of Johnny B? Other than he hasnt done much more than us in the NFL?[/quote]

Well, from what I've seen of him the past four years he strikes me as someone who totally knows what he should do but has difficulty executing it. When I watch him play, I sense the game is moving just a bit too fast for him.

If he was 26-27 years old I have a bit more patience with him, not sure i can at 30 years old.

Like I said, if he's our guy I fully hope I'm wrong and that he dominates but I don't believe he'll be anything more then average.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;803697]I get disgusted looking at our last decade of stats[/quote]

Its enough to make you vomit alright.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803703]Well, from what I've seen of him the past four years he strikes me as someone who totally knows what he should do but has difficulty executing it. When I watch him play, I sense the game is moving just a bit too fast for him.

If he was 26-27 years old I have a bit more patience with him, not sure i can at 30 years old.

Like I said, if he's our guy I fully hope I'm wrong and that he dominates but I don't believe he'll be anything more then average.[/quote]

This is all the evidence I need. You hate old people and Mormons. Congrads Smoot, you've finally been caught red handed for the hate mongering meanie, errr bigot, that you are!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803699]You are using the "Pro-bowl" as your proof he's good?[/quote]

Not that I'm agreeing necessarily with you anti-VY stance, but I do agree that Redskin fans especially should see how much of a crock the Pro Bowl can be.

Anyway at the very least he does win games, even if they're mostly against cup cakes, and he does have the physical tools. I think with us the perfect situation right now is a two year contract where he learns for most of year 1, and if things go to hell again get a Grossman like tryout near the end.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I will post a video within the next few days Beck throwing against Arizona and New York during the Preseason and will further attempt to get him throwing against Atlanta during the 09 Preseason. However for now I'm just going to focus on the Jets and Cardinals.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803718]Not that I'm agreeing necessarily with you anti-VY stance, but I do agree that Redskin fans especially should see how much of a crock the Pro Bowl can be.

Anyway at the very least he does win games, even if they're mostly against cup cakes, and he does have the physical tools. I think with us the perfect situation right now is a two year contract where he learns for most of year 1, and if things go to hell again get a Grossman like tryout near the end.[/quote]

I've seen where Young is great. I haven't seen it from Beck. Yes, Young is unpredictable and who knows how he'd handle the pressure here. But give me high-risk, high-reward over medium risk-medium reward anytime.

I'd like to see them re-sign Grossman and sign Young. Start Grossman until they feel Young is ready then drop Rex to #3 and start Young with Beck as the #2. Then next year let Rex walk and draft a young QB to be the #3 and QB of the future.

I mean honestly I don't want Beck in the equation, but I don't think he's going anywhere even if he's not starting

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803732]I've seen where Young is great. I haven't seen it from Beck. Yes, Young is unpredictable and who knows how he'd handle the pressure here. But give me high-risk, high-reward over medium risk-medium reward anytime.

I'd like to see them re-sign Grossman and sign Young. Start Grossman until they feel Young is ready then drop Rex to #3 and start Young with Beck as the #2. Then next year let Rex walk and draft a young QB to be the #3 and QB of the future.

I mean honestly I don't want Beck in the equation, but I don't think he's going anywhere even if he's not starting[/quote]

In watching him in the preseason games (which I'll post video of within the next few days) he has great accuracy on short quick throws. His deep balls on the other hand worry me. Part of me thinks that it's more from a lack of experience with the offense at the time he was playing, at least I hope thats what it was.

However the good news is no more dirt balls, as Theisman said during the preseason he has a quick fluid release and likes to get the ball out of his hands, which will help that high sack total we've been dealing with the past few years. Assuming he starts of course.

I think the main thing to look out for is how well Beck adjust to downfield passing plays in our offense. He has the arm, now it's more of a case of knowing where everyone is as that seemed to be the root of the majority of his mistakes during preseason. At the very least he remains an intriguing option in my eyes, and in a year like this why not?

On a side note I'm starting to think the team should strongly, STRONGLY, consider starting Erik Cook at Center. Might be playing against the Jets second stringers but he's not getting pushed back into the pocket. Plus it looks cool having a tall Center when they walk up to the line :FIREdevil

Side Side note: Wonder if they bring back Bartel to compete for the 3rd string QB spot with the shortened offseason and all :D

I prefer to call mcnabbs passes bounce passes. Ah, may have to change my avatar.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803732]I've seen where Young is great. I haven't seen it from Beck. Yes, Young is unpredictable and [B]who knows how he'd handle the pressure here.[/B] But give me high-risk, high-reward over medium risk-medium reward anytime.

I'd like to see them re-sign Grossman and sign Young. Start Grossman until they feel Young is ready then drop Rex to #3 and start Young with Beck as the #2. Then next year let Rex walk and draft a young QB to be the #3 and QB of the future.

I mean honestly I don't want Beck in the equation, but I don't think he's going anywhere even if he's not starting[/quote]

He would not be able to handle it here. No freakin' way. The guy is too immature and is soft as butter.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803732]I've seen where Young is great. I haven't seen it from Beck. Yes, Young is unpredictable and who knows how he'd handle the pressure here. But give me high-risk, high-reward over medium risk-medium reward anytime.

I mean honestly I don't want Beck in the equation, but I don't think he's going anywhere even if he's not starting[/quote]


The reason you haven't seen Beck be great is because he hasn't had the opportunity. You put VY on that same Miami team and he'll be lucky to walk away without permanent injury. Beck wasn't fortunate like VY where he's had a owner that pressed for him being picked at the #3 spot and pretty much forcing their coach to play him the whole time. I'd imagine you'd see Beck perform on many occasions had he been on the Titans.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;803739]He would not be able to handle it here. No freakin' way. The guy is too immature and is soft as butter.[/quote]

Whether VY is "soft as butter" or not, I don't know if I'd put it all on him. After all, Fisher ended up leaving too. But I agree w/your general assessment, how will Young handle Shananhan's stern, no nonsense approach?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

My personel opinion is that we may go after a Matt Hasselbach(SP). Shanny knows a lot is riding on this season, and he has to improve. I think with the expectations being somewhat scaled back than in previous seasons, if shanny can make a splash with a veteran QB this coming season, get to 500 or a game better, he can draft a QB next season, sit behind hasselbach a year and learn. We have money to spend this season, and according to sources we are going to spend it when the time comes. which means a QB, CB, and Olineman.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=freddyg12;803745]Whether VY is "soft as butter" or not, I don't know if I'd put it all on him. After all, Fisher ended up leaving too. But I agree w/your general assessment, how will Young handle Shananhan's stern, no nonsense approach?[/quote]

A big reason why Fischer left is because he was trying to bring his son more into the picture than what Bud Adams allows. Hence the breakdown between them even after Bud said VY wasn't coming back.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803742]The reason you haven't seen Beck be great is because he hasn't had the opportunity. You put VY on that same Miami team and he'll be lucky to walk away without permanent injury. Beck wasn't fortunate like VY where he's had a owner that pressed for him being picked at the #3 spot and pretty much forcing their coach to play him the whole time. I'd imagine you'd see Beck perform on many occasions had he been on the Titans.[/quote]

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-beck-facts/2011/05/19/AFoh2J7G_blog.html[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;803739]He would not be able to handle it here. No freakin' way. The guy is too immature and is soft as butter.[/quote]

Maybe a change of scenery would do him good. I don't think he's quite as immature as he's portrayed to be

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803742]The reason you haven't seen Beck be great is because he hasn't had the opportunity. You put VY on that same Miami team and he'll be lucky to walk away without permanent injury. Beck wasn't fortunate like VY where he's had a owner that pressed for him being picked at the #3 spot and pretty much forcing their coach to play him the whole time. I'd imagine you'd see Beck perform on many occasions had he been on the Titans.[/quote]

Some see it as he didn't get the opportunity, I see it as he didn't take advantage of the opportunity

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

This is a good omen when SS has reservations or mixed emotions about a player. Remember last time??

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803762]Some see it as he didn't get the opportunity, I see it as he didn't take advantage of the opportunity[/quote]

I might would agree with you, but you are missing one key point. Three different QBs played that same season and all had the same results. Tells me it wasn't the QB spot.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;803764]This is a good omen when SS has reservations or mixed emotions about a player. Remember last time??[/quote]

Uh I don't actually. Probably that other Mormon...Maake

note: I don't have any problem with Mormons, so don't get it twisted