Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

[quote=Son Of Man;802479]Is it to early to start my "Landry Jones" in 2012 chant?[/quote]

We won't get Jones. Our "smarter" plan is to win no games this year so that we can choose Luck. :cheeky-sm

Re: Dirtbag's Final Offseason Draft Grades
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802446][B]R1P17 - Ryan Kerrigan - OLB - Purdue - [/B]High motor player that can hold up at the POA. Also capable of getting to the QB and could easily be the best OLB in this class, at the very least though he's a suitable compliment to Orakpo [B]Grade A[/B]

[B]R2P41 - Jarvis Jenkins - DE - Clemson -[/B] Space eater that will keep blockers off linebackers and no longer allow teams to run away from Carriker. If he gets better in the weight room he could easily be a steal but the bottom line is he'll only really be counted on for dirty work. [B]Grade B[/B]

[B]R3P15 - Leonard Hankerson - WR - Miami - [/B]Thank St. Louis for passing him up one pick earlier. Nothing to dislike here. Receiver is a huge need and Hankerson has the physial tools, production, and intangibles. [B]Grade A+[/B]

[B]R4P8 - Roy Helu Jr - RB - Nebraska -[/B] Productive player with game breaking speed in the Shanahan system. [B]Grade A[/B]

[B]R5P15 - Dejon Gomes - Everything - Nebraska -[/B] What is he? Is he an in the box safety? A nickel back? Speedy OLB? A special teams player? At the very least Gomes is a football player that will work hard and probably make this team. On the other hand we already had similar players on our roster and more useful players were still on the board. Grade down the road has potential to be a lot higher [B]Grade C[/B]

[B]R5P24 - Niles Paul - WR - Nebraska -[/B] Depends on how you look at Paul. On one hand he has first round talent but on the other hand his production is that of a...well 5th round pick if that. The problems with alcohol don't sound encouraging either. Either way the main point of view I take on this pick is the next receiver the Redskins selected is much more promising and the only thing keeping me from giving this pick a D is Paul's first round ability. Interesting fact, Paul is the Nephew of former Packers Running Back Ahman Green [B]Grade C-[/B]

[B]R6P12 - Evan Royster - RB - Penn State -[/B] Royster has a great combination of vision and production. Shanahan probably oversold when he compared him to T. Davis but in Washington Royster has a real chance to succeed. [B]Grade B+[/B]

[B]R6P13 - Alderick Robinson - WR - SMU -[/B] Robinson is a very good pick. Though he doesn't get behind defenses in spite of his speed he's still a quality route runner that catches the ball in the first window (See end of post for explanation). He has the type of production that would easily have justified a 3rd round pick. Has great potential working out of the slot and could easily find himself competing with Terrance Austin for the role of the next Eddie Royal. [B]Grade A-[/B]

[B]R7P10 - Brandyn Thompson - CB - Boise State -[/B] uhhh Corner. [B]Grade F-[/B]. In all seriousness though Thompson is a decent physical corner with the ability to pull in Int's. However his hips aren't very fluid according to reports and in general good Corners seem to fall less in drafts then any other position. Unlike most corners though he's willing and able to play the run. [B]Grade D+ [/B]

[B]R7P14 Maurice Hurt - OG - Florida -[/B] Zone capable Guard with decent versatility. Played LG, RG, and RT at Florida however height will limit him to Guard at the next level. Durability problems might have led to his drop. At the very least he's another developmental lineman to flow down the pipeline. [B]Grade B-[/B]

[B]R7P21 - Markus White - OLB - Florida State [/B]- Very raw but physically gifted player. He also comes with decent production racking up 8 sacks last year. He has durability concerns especially with a history of seizures however White also possesses a high ceiling and could find himself as a situational pass rusher and go to backup a year or two down the line. [B]Grade B-[/B]

[B]R7P50 - Christopher Neild - NT - West Virginia -[/B] Hard worker with great bulk for a 320 pounder. Loves football and relishes taking on and working through double teams. At the very least will be a rotation player for years, but could also become a starter one day. [B]Grade A-[/B]

*Receiver Windows - A concept explained to me by Cris Carter who ironically coached Leonard Hankerson in High School. 1st window is where the best receivers catch the ball with their hands extended away from their body. 2nd window is right in front of the face mask or with the body. 3rd window is where players catch the ball after it passes them away from their field of vision. The higher the window the higher the chance of a receiver causing tip drill Int's.

**All grades are arbitrary but are based on a combination of need, value, floor, ceiling, ability to make the team, and the ability to contribute.[/quote]

You gave a very positive review. I'm coming around on this draft, at first I was skeptical of not taking a QB & also taking Jenkins in the 2nd. Admittedly though, I didn't know much about Jenkins beforehand.

I think Niles Paul has some similarities to Miles Austin, who was undrafted. I like his size & YAC potential. The Hankerson pick was a home run, but the other pick that got my attention was Markus White. Watched a bit of him & I see him as a guy that could develop into a solid OLB. Has the athleticism to make the transition.

I like the RB picks if for no other reason they are great value & should be able to make the team. Don't care if we have a feature back, but will be nice if Royster develops as the between the tackles guy & Helu spells him for a change of pace. Or vice-versa w/Helu starting. That job is wide open at this point.

Re: Dirtbag's Final Offseason Draft Grades
 

[quote=freddyg12;802691]You gave a very positive review. I'm coming around on this draft, at first I was skeptical of not taking a QB & also taking Jenkins in the 2nd. Admittedly though, I didn't know much about Jenkins beforehand.

I think Niles Paul has some similarities to Miles Austin, who was undrafted. I like his size & YAC potential. The Hankerson pick was a home run, but the other pick that got my attention was Markus White. Watched a bit of him & I see him as a guy that could develop into a solid OLB. Has the athleticism to make the transition.

I like the RB picks if for no other reason they are great value & should be able to make the team. Don't care if we have a feature back, but will be nice if Royster develops as the between the tackles guy & Helu spells him for a change of pace. Or vice-versa w/Helu starting. That job is wide open at this point.[/quote]

The funny thing about Hankerson is how similar his situation is to when the Redskins drafted Devin Thomas. Just like in 2008 the Rams were picking right before us and just like 2008 both the Skins and Rams needed a receiver. And just like 08 the Rams took the small school guy instead of the guy we wanted to pick. Of course this time around the Rams got a more reasonable prospect with Austin Pettis but it's funny the similarities. I just hope the end result is different and between Hankerson's attitude and Shanahan's coaching I feel like we're putting this young man in a position to succeed.

Re: Dirtbag's Final Offseason Draft Grades
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802730]The funny thing about Hankerson is how similar his situation is to when the Redskins drafted Devin Thomas. Just like in 2008 the Rams were picking right before us and just like 2008 both the Skins and Rams needed a receiver. And just like 08 the Rams took the small school guy instead of the guy we wanted to pick. Of course this time around the Rams got a more reasonable prospect with Austin Pettis but it's funny the similarities. I just hope the end result is different and between Hankerson's attitude and Shanahan's coaching I feel like we're putting this young man in a position to succeed.[/quote]

Hank has some major differences from Thomas. Breaking Michael Irvin's record with whoever their QB is, hands that are huge, 4 years experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one-year one-trick pony who could only comprehend a go route even AFTER an attitude change.

Re: Dirtbag's Final Offseason Draft Grades
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;802757]Hank has some major differences from Thomas. Breaking Michael Irvin's record with whoever their QB is, hands that are huge, 4 years experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one-year one-trick pony who could only comprehend a go route even AFTER an attitude change.[/quote]

Oh I know and no way am I comparing Hankerson to Thomas in terms of on field play. I just thought that it was funny that once against St. Louis was picking right before us and they passed up a big name for another receiver allowing the guy we wanted to drop to us. Of course Titus Young wasn't nearly as obscure as Donny Avery but thats besides the point.

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

When sirclinton mentioned Hank's 4 years, I realized - we didn't draft any underclassmen did we?

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

One thing I noticed about Robinson's QB is that he had a terrible arm. You watch all the fades he runs and has to come back to balls to make plays. I think that might have been why he was considered fast but not a deep threat.
[YT]I-h7_TOY9og[/YT]

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

[quote=freddyg12;802775]When sirclinton mentioned Hank's 4 years, I realized - we didn't draft any underclassmen did we?[/quote]

More of a coincidence then anything else. Last years draft was loaded with underclassmen because players became very aware of the labor uncertainty for 2011 plus they knew there wouldn't be a rookie wage scale.

The underclassmen that would have been eligible for this years draft on the other hand saw terrible labor uncertainty and a rookie wage scale that had them saying "whats the rush." So in the end we had a class where most of the best players were seniors.

Bottom line the guys that returned to college know they'll be playing football this fall and won't have to worry about not having enough time to learn the system while adjusting to the speed of a new level. The 2011 class of rookies on the other hand has many players wondering when they're going to see a playbook and weather or not they'll learn it in time to convince their coaches that they deserve playing time. After all you only get one chance to make a first impression.

Also reminds me of someone saying the Chiefs were drafting mostly team captains when the fact of the matter is most drafted players are elected captain because they're one of the 3 or 4 best players on the team. In many cases actual leadership qualities are a bonus rather than a requirement.

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

It was kind of amazing though, that we didn't take an underclassman in the first round. At the spot we picked, it was pretty much just Kerrigan and Jordan (and I guess the OT class) amongst a ton of underclassmen.

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6539561]NFL: Jahvid Best and Mikel Leshoure illustrate the evolution of NFL running backs - ESPN[/url]
Based on this I would suspect we're going to see more Torrain and Royster then Helu Jr. Skins take on the AFC East this year and have 8 games against 3-4 teams (including 4 straight in weeks 8-11). Helu should be fine though in the other 8 games .

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

I would've liked to have seen a substantial NT over Jenkins and some O-Line help over Gomes. I think we went a little heavy on the receiving core and running backs, and none of the running backs are reputed to be able to catch balls out of the backfield or block. Without revamping our line, what quarterback, be it Beck, Grossman, or even McNabb will be able to get the ball down field without getting creamed?

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

[quote=Fireox;802861]I would've liked to have seen a substantial NT over Jenkins and some O-Line help over Gomes. I think we went a little heavy on the receiving core and running backs, and none of the running backs are reputed to be able to catch balls out of the backfield or block. Without revamping our line, what quarterback, be it Beck, Grossman, or even McNabb will be able to get the ball down field without getting creamed?[/quote]

I think the Neild will surprise a lot of people but at the same time more people would have felt confident with someone like Powe. Receiving crops and running back picks outside of Paul I felt were great because they were late and they will be coming into a regime that has a history of developing late round skilled players. However I see your point on the overkill.

Still Royster actually does have a reputation as a pass catcher and blocker. In fact he is best described as a back that's good at everything great at nothing.

Looking back the real area they might have gone overkill on is the front 5 on defense seeing as how they might be signing a nosetackle and defensive end. Don't get me wrong Jarvis Jenkins should be a nice find and he has a ton of upside given what he was able to do with limited measurable strength however with the rumors of signing Franklin and Jenkins coming in I can't help but think that the second round pick would have been much better spent on Hudson or Wisenski.

Gomes I didn't like much either but I know deep down he's a football player and will make it very hard for the coaches to cut him. In fact I think he may end up being the Lorenzo Alexander of the secondary.

2010 rules have depleted this offensive line class heavily while at the same time we could see 2/3's of our defensive line starters coming in via Free agency. I mean we don't know if Harris will be available and we have to find out soon or else we'll loose out on J. Brown and maybe have to settle for overplaying Gaither. Joesph is going to be a restricted free agent.

Tyson Clabo I'm hearing will be to expensive to resign for the Falcons and is coming off a pro bowl season. Falcons use a zone scheme so he might be looking into as well.

There are some other guys that are a little less well known but might be good fits but the good news is the Skins O-Line improved a lot near the end of the year and could simply get better by relying on continuity. Still we'll see.

Fun With Numbers Vinny vs Shanallen
 

So I decided to play around with numbers and came up with a statistical evaluation to see how picks were allocated in the draft.

[B][B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"]Warning: May induce heart attack, stroke, and seizure.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/B]

[B]Rules[/B]:
- Trench Players (DT, DE, OL, OLB in 3-4)

- Skilled Players (QB, RB, WR, TE, DB, LB, LS, K, P)

- Points were allocated so higher picks earned more points(1st Round - 7pts, 2nd Round - 6pts, 3rd Round - 5pts, 4th Round - 4pts, 5th Round - 3pts, 6th Round -2pts, 7th Round - 1pt)

- So to demonstrate, Brian Orakpo in the 1st Round resulted in 7 points for Trench players. Taylor Jacobs in the 2nd Round fetched 6 points for skilled players. Leonard Hankerson in the 3rd Round fetched 5 points for trench players. HB Blades in the 6th Round fetched 2 points for skilled players, Selvish Capers in the 7th Round fetched 1 point for trench players

-Trades for veterans were not included however supplementary picks were (ie Jarmon).

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Shanallen[/B] [B]2010-2011[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 8 (25 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 10 (27 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Blue"]Vinny Alone 2008-2009[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 4 (18 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 13 (41 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Vinny With Gibbs and Snyder 2004-2007[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 5 (10 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 16 (61 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Purple"]Vinny With Snyder 2000, 2002-2003[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 6 (20 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 15 (56 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Green"]Vinny Reign of Terror 2000, 2002-2009[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 15 (48 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 44 (158 Points)

Re: Fun With Numbers Vinny vs Shanallen
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802945]So I decided to play around with numbers and came up with a statistical evaluation to see how picks were allocated in the draft.

[B][B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"]Warning: May induce heart attack, stroke, and seizure.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/B]

[B]Rules[/B]:
- Trench Players (DT, DE, OL, OLB in 3-4)

- Skilled Players (QB, RB, WR, TE, DB, LB, LS, K, P)

- Points were allocated so higher picks earned more points(1st Round - 7pts, 2nd Round - 6pts, 3rd Round - 5pts, 4th Round - 4pts, 5th Round - 3pts, 6th Round -2pts, 7th Round - 1pt)

- So to demonstrate, Brian Orakpo in the 1st Round resulted in 7 points for Trench players. Taylor Jacobs in the 2nd Round fetched 6 points for skilled players. Leonard Hankerson in the 3rd Round fetched 5 points for trench players. HB Blades in the 6th Round fetched 2 points for skilled players, Selvish Capers in the 7th Round fetched 1 point for trench players

-Trades for veterans were not included however supplementary picks were (ie Jarmon).

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Shanallen[/B] [B]2010-2011[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 8 (25 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 10 (27 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Blue"]Vinny Alone 2008-2009[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 4 (18 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 13 (41 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Vinny With Gibbs and Snyder 2004-2007[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 5 (10 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 16 (61 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Purple"]Vinny With Snyder 2000, 2002-2003[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 6 (20 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 15 (56 Points)

[B][B][COLOR="Green"]Vinny Reign of Terror 2000, 2002-2009[/COLOR]
[/B][/B][B]Trench Players Drafted[/B] - 15 (48 Points)
[B]Skilled Players Drafted[/B] - 44 (158 Points)[/quote]

This is great work. Wow....this is freaking mind blowing. Even guys running a Madden franchise know to draft quality guys in the trenches. Those stats are ridiculous.

Re: Redskins Draft Analysis Thread
 

At least you admit it's just playing with numbers.