Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884641]An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.[/quote]

I could be way off in my thinking but I think your comparing a QB that probably threw a ton of balls and completed 85% (PM), compared to a QB who had more of a running game and was not asked to throw the ball as much but had close to an 85% rating for the few balls he did throw (JC). How does that matter? I don't think if JC had to throw as many balls his % would have been lower.

Again I could be wrong for all you stat driven people.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;884676]For me it all depends on how FA shakes out. There's multiple scenarios here which I wouldn't mind if it happened.

Scenario A:
Sign Manning in FA, trade down in first, pick up multiple picks, take Tannehill in late first/early second and also use other picks to fill other spots, like maybe a Kendall Wright or Juron Criner to help out Manning.

Scenario B:
RG3 falls to 6, we take him. No trade down, no FA qb, etc. This would be a scenario I wouldn't see happening as the Shannies' first choice, but one where if the situation did occure they'd take advantage of.

Scenario C: Crazy trade scenario where we trade up to 1, Colts trade down to 2, and Rams trade down to 6. We get Luck, Colts get RG3, and Rams get draft picks to help out Bradford.

Scenarios I would be pissed if they happened:

Scenario D: We sign Orton in FA, and take one of the non-Tannehill 2nd rate draft qb's available and head into TC with Orton and 2nd rate guy ready to battle.[/quote]I like option A although I wouldn't take a QB early in that scenario I would target BPA with a focus on OL,S

I love option B and I think its possible, but man we all need to start living right to be lucky enough for Griffin to fall to us

Don't like C too much

I view option C much differently then you because I don't consider all the non-Tannehill QBs '2nd rate' and therefore wouldn't be as upset with some of them that scenario depending on where they're drafted.
It would gall me a little though because Orton was available last offseason and we didn't go after him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884623]I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is..[/quote]

Sheesh, touchy. God's Gift was just my term for someone you think extremely highly of. That must be the case, there's no way you'd ever trade so many picks to get someone you didn't think was God's Gift.

[quote=biffle;884623]
Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9

A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.[/quote]

From age 29 to age 33, those QB ratings are for all intents and purposes, the same. Nobody who watched Manning over that time would ever say that he fell off during that time. He was just as deadly. As for the 34 year old season, don't forget that was the year he played hurt the entire year with neck pain and numbness in his arm. Hence the neck surgeries and now the nerve regeneration.

People decline physically, yes. But it's typically fast twitch muscle that falls off as you age. RBs, WRs, and DBs are particularly prone to aging, they rely on agility and speed which requires fast twitch muscle. Arm strength can decline some, but that's typically more a function of mechanics. On Peyton's particular situation, spinal fusion surgery results in complete nerve regeneration over 90% of the time. It also results in vertebrae that are stronger and more resistant to injury than they were even before the surgery. Some range of motion can be lost, but this is insignificant to the sport of football. In other words, Manning is almost certain to be himself again. Those are just the medical facts.



[quote=biffle;884623]
Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.[/quote]

Fair point. I will concede that I do believe free agency can still be successful in filling out a team. But successful forays into free agency do not include bringing in $35-$45 million worth of free agent talent. That's almost an entirely new starting lineup.

As for GTripp's breakdown, you probably don't realize it but you've stepped into my wheelhouse - salary cap analysis. GTripp's breakdown post is one I used to do for this site. He did it this year for whatever reason, I chose not to make an issue of it, but that doesn't mean I agree with the analysis. He's right in saying we need a portion of our cap space to resign our own players or replace them with other players. But I don't agree with the conclusion that there is only $15 million of flexibility. You may be able to assume same cap value when considering replacement cost of departing players, but that doesn't mean those replacements won't be talent upgrades.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884680]Wait. Luck had a mediocre line? I wouldn't say that at all.[/quote]

I was not so much insinuating that. I was trying to make a point that you would have to actually look at their teams playing in each game to determine how they got their yrds. Was it designed or was it due to play break downs. Plus I think it depends on the talent they played.... was the QB forced to run more based off the talent of the defenses they faced.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;884652][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/why-would-peyton-manning-want-to-play-for-the-redskins/2012/02/10/gIQAeZxP4Q_blog.html]Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

And then a great article by Wise.[/quote]


Sweet baby jesus, why does JLC hate on the Skins? Did Snyder steal his lunch money growing up or something?


Smoot, what's the lowdown on JLC? He get kicked in the balls by Redskins personnel or something?

Feinstein is also way off. He obviously hates Mike Shanahan for sure, and that's pretty classless of him to slam Sally that way.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Is there any where we can go to look up what of the good QB's in history had a really good spiral ball vs. good QB's in history that didn't?

I ask because obviously I'm a Weeden fan and had heard that he will have success cause he throws a really tight spiral ball. Where other QB's will muscle the ball down the field having it wobble, Weeden's flies smooth through the air. It was discussed that where RGIII might be able to throw the ball farther on a windy day he might not due to the ball wobbling in the air vs. Weeden who can throw a tight spiral which will enable the ball to fly through the air easily.

I thought I had heard something like this yrs ago that you always want to look for a QB who throws a really tight spiral because they usually turn out to be really good QB's in the NFL.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884690]Sweet baby jesus, why does JLC hate on the Skins? Did Snyder steal his lunch money growing up or something?


Smoot, what's the lowdown on JLC? He get kicked in the balls by Redskins personnel or something?

Feinstein is also way off. He obviously hates Mike Shanahan for sure, and that's pretty classless of him to slam Sally that way.[/quote]
I don't like JLC either but I kinda see where he's coming from I posted something similar earlier.
As much as I want Peyton its hard for me to figure why he would want to come here as opposed to say South Beach or the Jets (if they're ready to move on from Sanchez).

Re:Sally
Me thinks there's a bit of professional jealously involved because of Jenkin's access to Mike Shanahan, its a relationship that Feinstein and other local media lack.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Here something...

[url=http://www.livestrong.com/article/546851-what-does-a-tight-spiral-mean-in-football/]What Does A Tight Spiral Mean In Football? | LIVESTRONG.COM[/url]

[QUOTE]
A tight spiral is desirable under all conditions but it is a necessity in windy conditions. When the ball is thrown into the wind, it will knock the ball down, slow it down and impact its flight to the target. A tight spiral helps keep the ball on track. As the ball spins quickly, it has a better chance to remain on course. The receiver will have to adjust to the flight of the ball but not as much as when the quarterback does not throw a tight spiral

Read more: [url=http://www.livestrong.com/article/546851-what-does-a-tight-spiral-mean-in-football/#ixzz1mDcr0SSI]What Does A Tight Spiral Mean In Football? | LIVESTRONG.COM[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
NFL Quarterbacks
Former Miami Dolphin quarterback Dan Marino is considered one of the hardest throwers in NFL history. The Hall of Famer's tight spiral was the product of a quick and powerful release. Fellow Hall of Famer John Elway was also known for the power of his arm and his tight spiral. Elway threw the ball so hard that the point of the ball often left an impression on the receiver when he caught it. "The Elway Cross" was left on the chest of receivers when a tight spiral hit the receiver with full force.



Read more: [url=http://www.livestrong.com/article/546851-what-does-a-tight-spiral-mean-in-football/#ixzz1mDcxxeii]What Does A Tight Spiral Mean In Football? | LIVESTRONG.COM[/url][/QUOTE]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I have said I would like to see us get

Flynn
Weeden

But no matter what we do in FA, I'm thinking it would be neat to maybe grab two QB's in the draft. Perhaps Weeden and Foles. Both are tall enough and both throw tight spirals and reports are they can make all the throws.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884687]From age 29 to age 33, those QB ratings are for all intents and purposes, the same. Nobody who watched Manning over that time would ever say that he fell off during that time. He was just as deadly. As for the 34 year old season, don't forget that was the year he played hurt the entire year with neck pain and numbness in his arm. Hence the neck surgeries and now the nerve regeneration.

People decline physically, yes. But it's typically fast twitch muscle that falls off as you age. RBs, WRs, and DBs are particularly prone to aging, they rely on agility and speed which requires fast twitch muscle. Arm strength can decline some, but that's typically more a function of mechanics. On Peyton's particular situation, spinal fusion surgery results in complete nerve regeneration over 90% of the time. It also results in vertebrae that are stronger and more resistant to injury than they were even before the surgery. Some range of motion can be lost, but this is insignificant to the sport of football. In other words, Manning is almost certain to be himself again. Those are just the medical facts. [/quote]

No, those numbers represent a consistent decline, with one outlier year. Because they aren't huge doesn't mean they are not happening. He has been slowly declining thru his 30s, which is hardly shocking.

Note my post above. QBs who had the same types of skills as Manning (Marino, Unitas, Fouts, Kelly) were falling off a cliff in performance after the age of 35. There is no basis for believing Manning will just chug along with no drop-off.


[quote=Schneed10;884687]Fair point. I will concede that I do believe free agency can still be successful in filling out a team. But successful forays into free agency do not include bringing in $35-$45 million worth of free agent talent. That's almost an entirely new starting lineup.

As for GTripp's breakdown, you probably don't realize it but you've stepped into my wheelhouse - salary cap analysis. GTripp's breakdown post is one I used to do for this site. He did it this year for whatever reason, I chose not to make an issue of it, but that doesn't mean I agree with the analysis. He's right in saying we need a portion of our cap space to resign our own players or replace them with other players. But I don't agree with the conclusion that there is only $15 million of flexibility. You may be able to assume same cap value when considering replacement cost of departing players, but that doesn't mean those replacements won't be talent upgrades. [/quote]

That's nice, and I'm not in total agreement with all his assumptions either, but it's a starting point. He also has us releasing players that I don't envision and doesn't seem to have outlayed cap space for draft picks. So, in those regards he is [I]over[/I]estimating the cap space we will have. My own guesstimates had us at 16-18 mil in cap space after re-signings and draft picks, assuming none of the Snyder/Vinny era back loading of contracts. That is a fairly modest amount of money to spend.

And all of that is kind of moot anyway, as apparently the ability to rollover cap space form year to year holds throughout the CBA. So, the money you're advocating spending on Peyton doesn't have to go to a spending spree, some of it could just be saved for the future.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884680]Wait. Luck had a mediocre line? I wouldn't say that at all.[/quote]

Two of his OL will most likely be drafted in the top 20. I wouldn't call that a mediocre line...lol

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884548]Kid, I have no clue who who you are nor do I give a flying ****. I haven't said the first thing to you so if you have your panties in a bunch it's your problem. I you don't like me, put me on ignore and go about your way. If you are going to insult people (much like you did with me and others) and not bring anything else to the table, then I suggest you go over to Extremeskins where you'll be much more suited.

I'm here to talk football and other things. We don't often agree around here, but there is a line of respect we try to maintain. I've apologized a few times when I've been out of line, but I recognize that and correct it. You on the other hand are bitter about something so that's on you.

I find it funny you talk about "character" and yet you sit behind a computer insulting people you have zero clue about. What does that say about your character...or lack there of? I do my work, and my boss doesn't have to ask me twice to do anything. I get incredible reviews on my job. I am the utmost professional at my job. I said that to piss you off and it hit the mark, and for that, I'm glad.

If you got anything else to add (or not add in this case), then send it via PMs. You are detracting away from the discussion going on. Have a nice day.[/quote]

Wow...a couple of paragraphs. Now I feel really bad.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;884676]For me it all depends on how FA shakes out. There's multiple scenarios here which I wouldn't mind if it happened.

Scenario A:
Sign Manning in FA, trade down in first, pick up multiple picks, take Tannehill in late first/early second and also use other picks to fill other spots, like maybe a Kendall Wright or Juron Criner to help out Manning.

Scenario B:
RG3 falls to 6, we take him. No trade down, no FA qb, etc. This would be a scenario I wouldn't see happening as the Shannies' first choice, but one where if the situation did occure they'd take advantage of.

Scenario C: Crazy trade scenario where we trade up to 1, Colts trade down to 2, and Rams trade down to 6. We get Luck, Colts get RG3, and Rams get draft picks to help out Bradford.

Scenarios I would be pissed if they happened:

Scenario D: We sign Orton in FA, and take one of the non-Tannehill 2nd rate draft qb's available and head into TC with Orton and 2nd rate guy ready to battle.[/quote]

Right on all around.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884092]It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


[B][U]Package A:[/U][/B]

1) RGIII


[B][U]Package B:[/U][/B]
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)





That's about what you'll have to pay to get RGIII. SO tell me, which would you chose? Put your mancrush down and think sensible. Knowing the holes we have, would you honestly give up all that for RGIII? If you whiff on that pick, you are screwed for many many years to come. You whiff on Cousins, and you pick up a QB later on and still have a solid team.

Package B all day....ERRR DAY.[/quote]

I'll take the latter as well. All day everyday and twice on Sundays ( and into watching football in Jan and maybe Feb. )

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Why is RG3 considered such a sure-fire prospect, I keep reading posts (albeit many of them from ES) that mention RG3 and Luck in the same breathe, as if these guys aren't that far apart.

I love RG3 and he's exciting to watch, but I'm not about to glance over the fact that he comes from a spread offense. RG3 has little to no practice in going through progressions/making post-snap reads. This may be me being a little tough on him, but I see a QB that stares down one side of the field, waits until a man gets open and if he doesn't feel a man is going to get open he takes off from the pocket running.

That doesn't sound like the type of football that would translate well to the NFL. Could it? Certainly, and it has before. But I can't see why he's consider a sure-fire pick.

RG3's floor in my opinion is a bust, he could literally flop out of the NFL. While Luck's on the other hand is probably that of an average to above average QB. So long as Luck stays healthy I expect him to be a starting QB his entire career, I can't say the same for RG3.

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1063429-2012-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-predictions-and-analysis]2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report[/url]

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884730][url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1063429-2012-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-predictions-and-analysis]2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report[/url]

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.[/quote]

It will take at least 2 firsts and a 2nd...but probably more

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884728]Why is RG3 considered such a sure-fire prospect, I keep reading posts (albeit many of them from ES) that mention RG3 and Luck in the same breathe, as if these guys aren't that far apart.

I love RG3 and he's exciting to watch, but I'm not about to glance over the fact that he comes from a spread offense. RG3 has little to no practice in going through progressions/making post-snap reads. This may be me being a little tough on him, but I see a QB that stares down one side of the field, waits until a man gets open and if he doesn't feel a man is going to get open he takes off from the pocket running.

That doesn't sound like the type of football that would translate well to the NFL. Could it? Certainly, and it has before. But I can't see why he's consider a sure-fire pick.

RG3's floor in my opinion is a bust, he could literally flop out of the NFL. While Luck's on the other hand is probably that of an average to above average QB. So long as Luck stays healthy I expect him to be a starting QB his entire career, I can't say the same for RG3.

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.[/quote]

I'm not going to really answer your question here I don't think...but I'm of the opinion, and this may sound crazy, that in many ways Luck is severely underrated...underappreciated...whatever the right word is. He's not an electrifying dazzling player but he just gets it done and he does it seemingly so effortlessly that when you put his highlights against someone as electrifying as RG3 can be, then the admiration for RG3 skyrockets.

It's kind of like there was a time when everyone loved the dazzling shortstop abilities of Ozzie Smith as he dove and flipped everywhere, but no one really appreciated that Cal Ripken just knew where to be so he wouldn't necessarily have to dive everywhere

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884730][url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1063429-2012-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-predictions-and-analysis]2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Predictions and Analysis | Bleacher Report[/url]

He's saying it's only going to cost this year's first and third and next year's first. Don't see how that happens with Cleveland's picks.[/quote]


Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher go way back. They'll work it out because they are former members on the 49ers coaching staff so they've known each other for years and years. Even if the Browns have more ammunition, it doesn't mean the Rams will accept it. What does it matter if Cleveland has two first round picks this year? The Rams can get a first rounder from the Redskins this year and next year. And next year's pick can be higher than a 19th pick depending on how the Redskins finish. The compensation for the 2nd overall selection is just about the same. Even if the Rams take the Browns pick, how much is the 19th overall pick really worth in conjunction with the 4th overall pick really worth?

Shanahan and Fisher will iron out a deal if they haven't done so already.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;884735]Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher go way back. They'll work it out because they are former members on the 49ers coaching staff so they've known each other for years and years. Even if the Browns have more ammunition, it doesn't mean the Rams will accept it. What does it matter if Cleveland has two first round picks this year? The Rams can get a first rounder from the Redskins this year and next year. And next year's pick can be higher than a 19th pick depending on how the Redskins finish. The compensation for the 2nd overall selection is just about the same. Even if the Rams take the Browns pick, how much is the 19th overall pick really worth in conjunction with the 4th overall pick really worth?

Shanahan and Fisher will iron out a deal if they haven't done so already.[/quote]

Cleveland could throw in next year's first. That still puts us a first round pick behind them. I don't buy that Fisher makes the deal because him and Shanny are boys. I'd park RGIII in the AFC and take Cleveland for all they got;)

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

And Holmgren and Shanahan were on the Niners staff together so who's to say they won't work out a deal?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884728]I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.[/quote]This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.

Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs [I]innate[/I] abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives [I]ahead[/I] of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.

BTW-welcome to the forum

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884739]Cleveland could throw in next year's first. That still puts us a first round pick behind them. I don't buy that Fisher makes the deal because him and Shanny are boys. I'd park RGIII in the AFC and take Cleveland for all they got;)[/quote]

Well, if that's the case then we as Redskin fans better hope that Mike Holmgren is sold on Colt McCoy and he's trying to aid him in getting him weapons at receiver. Despite McCoy's on field struggles, he's still a very young quarterback and if the Browns gave up on him after only two seasons would be unfortunate. Even though they can outbid us for RG3, they very well may not. The Browns troubles on offense wasn't only with the quarterback. The running game, the receivers had struggled so everything doesn't fall on McCoy. For them to draft Robert Griffin III will not do anything for their offense. They must build around the QB they have already. In addition, Holmgren already stated that competition would be brought in for McCoy this offseason. That would mean that the don't attend to draft a QB high, but maybe draft Weeden, Foles or some other rookie QB or maybe sign a veteran QB through free agency to compete with McCoy to help improve his game.


So maybe, just maybe, RG3 will fall to the sixth pick.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884666]Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.[/quote]

Very well stated SBXVII! I don't want a PM with a fused neck and a noodle arm. I don't want to trade up either. The poll is skewed. It does not allow for us to trade back like we did for Kerrigan, and net more picks. It also assumes that we would have to trade up for RGIII or Luck. There are no givens, but there are general trends. Any mock over on HailRedskins.com can tell you approximately where a player may be taken. Some mocks actually have multiple rounds or the entire draft.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=30gut;884741]This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.[/quote]
I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.


[quote]Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs [I]innate[/I] abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives [I]ahead[/I] of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.[/quote]
Fair enough, thanks for offering your opinion.


[quote]BTW-welcome to the forum[/quote]

Appreciate it, everyone around here has been very welcoming and the wealth of football knowledge that can be learned on this website is fully on display.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884699]No, those numbers represent a consistent decline, with one outlier year. Because they aren't huge doesn't mean they are not happening. He has been slowly declining thru his 30s, which is hardly shocking.[/quote]

Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884744]I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.[/quote]When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.

Oh, btw I'm DG on extremeskins.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884678]Probably already answered but I think you have to actually "watch" the team to determine their situation. What I mean is Luck was probably asked to sit in the pocket and deliver the ball [B]but was flushed due to a mediocre OL[/B] and yes he would have a lot of yardage because of this. RGIII probably had a whole offense designed around him where if he doesn't see anything down field with in a few seconds he would just take off and run. As an example I'd say a young Vick vs. a young anyone else with a bad OL. lol.[/quote]

Mediocore?!? Their OLine has 2 potential first rounders this year at LT and RG in Martin and DeCastro, and supposedly their RT, C, and LG (who are experienced juniors and sophmores) are projected to go high, even as high as DeCastro and Martin.

One knock on Luck is that he was good because he had a Great OL.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=30gut;884748]When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.[/quote]
Ya I remember them for sure, one of the few worth-while threads on ES. I was thinking about doing one with Tannehill, his NW cut-up is online, but I haven't found any others.

[quote]Oh, btw I'm DG on extremeskins.[/quote]
I had a feeling.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884746]Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.[/quote]

Wow. You're not even trying anymore.

Not much point in continuing this. Have a good one.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;884740]And Holmgren and Shanahan were on the Niners staff together so who's to say they won't work out a deal?[/quote]

"Yeah sorry Holms. I know we really could use an extra first round pick. But the thing is Shanny and I go way back."

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884530]Its a wrap folks. PFT says the fans of Washington don't want P.Manning.
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/11/theres-a-lot-anti-manning-sentiment-in-washington/]There’s a lot anti-Manning sentiment in Washington | ProFootballTalk[/url]

However some of you say we shouldn't listen to PFT with their hack writers. How funny he fails to list the commontators who are for having P.Manning here in Washington. Well the good news is PFT is only speaking for Washington, the very not bright people who would re-elect Mayor Berry after his "I accidently smoked from the crack pipe" incident. I'm so glad he didn't talk about the hooker he had bring it to his motel.

Maybe the writer should see what VA and MD thinks about P.Manning coming to the Skins.[/quote]

The point about Mike showing no ability to evaluate/develop QB talent so far in Washington is insightful, accurate, and a challenge to the RGIII club. Who's 100% confident Mike and Kyle can turn potential into Peyton?? Really?

...thought so.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884548]Kid, I have no clue who who you are nor do I give a flying ****. I haven't said the first thing to you so if you have your panties in a bunch it's your problem. I you don't like me, put me on ignore and go about your way. If you are going to insult people (much like you did with me and others) and not bring anything else to the table, then I suggest you go over to Extremeskins where you'll be much more suited.

I'm here to talk football and other things. We don't often agree around here, but there is a line of respect we try to maintain. I've apologized a few times when I've been out of line, but I recognize that and correct it. You on the other hand are bitter about something so that's on you.

I find it funny you talk about "character" and yet you sit behind a computer insulting people you have zero clue about. What does that say about your character...or lack there of? I do my work, and my boss doesn't have to ask me twice to do anything. I get incredible reviews on my job. I am the utmost professional at my job. I said that to piss you off and it hit the mark, and for that, I'm glad.

If you got anything else to add (or not add in this case), then send it via PMs. You are detracting away from the discussion going on. Have a nice day.[/quote]

Fail. I'm self-employed and work my butt off to earn a comfortable living...and help pay your salary bud. My "workweek" often includes weekdays, weeknights, and weekends. Bragging about wasting time at the taxpayers' expense (literally) should earn a lifetime ban...so you can be thankful I'm not a mod and I'll just say your welcome because I bought your last meal.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Is "WarpathDC" on Twitter anyone from here by chance?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=The Goat;884760]Fail. I'm self-employed and work my butt off to earn a comfortable living...and help pay your salary bud. My "workweek" often includes weekdays, weeknights, and weekends. Bragging about wasting time at the taxpayers' expense (literally) should earn a lifetime ban...so you can be thankful I'm not a mod and I'll just say your welcome because I bought your last meal.[/quote]

Unless you live in North Carolina, you don't pay jack of mine. I'm not a federal employee. Need help getting that foot out of your mouth? Lastly, I didn't say that to brag but you would know why if you actually read. #DERP

I'll be upgrading our core boxes to 6509-E series boxes this upcoming Sunday at 5am. What's your sorry ass going to be doing? Probably sleeping. Don't worry about the taxpayers getting slighted.

Lets keep this conversation off me. Send me a PM if you want to rant about how I'm a drain on the government or any other issue. Thanks.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

People need to chill the f*ck out, plain and simple. Especially anyone takes anything said here too seriously.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884767]Unless you live in North Carolina, you don't pay jack of mine. I'm not a federal employee. Need help getting that foot out of your mouth? Lastly, I didn't say that to brag but you would know why if you actually read. #DERP

I'll be upgrading our core boxes to 6509-E series boxes this upcoming Sunday at 5am. What's your sorry ass going to be doing? Sleeping. Don't worry about the taxpayers getting slighted.

Lets keep this conversation off me. Send me a PM if you want to rant about how I'm a drain on the government or any other issue. Thanks.[/quote]

I think we've all had a job (or two) working graveyard shift. Mine we're while I put myself through college.

Actually, North Carolina, like a hell of a lot of the states, receives more federal (tax) dollars than it pays. So if not your dinner, maybe a spot on that bridge you cross? It's really all the same.

But I'll give it a rest.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

no, donnie, these men are cowards

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Who gives a damn whether someone spens too much time on the site? If you aren't that person's parent it shouldn't even be brought up. What that person does during their "computer time" doesn't concern you. "Lifetime ban" that was hilarious. Man FA and the draft need to hurry up and get here.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

i would prefer PM if we have chance to get him , not racial discrimination , i really do not expect a black QB to lead a nfl team go further , or i can not wait for more 2 or 3 years if draft RG3 , and even do not know if it's a right choice . If PM to our team , i would very happy to collect his Redskins jersey .