Hall In, Taylor Out??

Tahoe Skin · 05-25-2005, 02:58 AM

Does anyone get the impression that we signed Cory Hall because either (1) the Skins know Sean Taylor may not be showing up for mandatory camp, and/or (2) the Skins are taking their first step to eventually unloading Sean Taylor? After all, Taylor's been downright rude to Gibbs, is obviously not the Redskin "character-type" that Gibbs likes, and is seemingly the Coles-type distraction that Gibbs is wont to unload: selfish, disgruntled and contractually unatainable. I mean if he wouldn't return my calls, and winds up holding out - I'd negotiate with teams and try to unload him for multiple high picks. Maybe not just yet, but maybe in June when he decides to hold out!

I know, I know - you would think Taylor knows he runs the risk of losing $$$ if he doesn't show up for mandatory camp. But maybe he's smoking that same Florida ganja that Ricky was smoking. Or, maybe, just maybe Rosenhaus is thinking that if Sean Taylor pisses the Skins off the way Coles did, the Skins will pull another bonehead move and trade Taylor just the way they gave in to Coles. So . . . Taylor gets traded, Taylor gets the sweet deal that he'd like, and the Skins get slammed like they did in the Coles/Jets deal. Do I hear Champ Bailey and the Denver Broncos giggling, and is that Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot smirking in the background??

Or maybe we learned our lesson in the Coles/Jets deal and will let Taylor sit for a year, call it a breach of contract, and then smartly spread his money around to upgrade our DE/DT/LG spots for the coming year? And then, we do what the Dolphins did!!! Go after all that bonus money the player got! Hey, how bout that: The Skins finally get smart in their negotiations. Or, perhaps it's just the contract lawyer in me that's tired of seeing teams stupidly tear up bilaterally negotiated contracts by caving in to the ridiculous demands of today's prima donnas. Or, maybe it's just late and there's doesn't seem to be any interesting news to purview.

But, if we are going to trade him, can we please get someone who knows how to negotiate with other teams? :smashfrea

I'm tired of having Broncos and Jets laughing at us.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 05-25-2005, 03:59 AM

There is no way that ST will be traded or cut.

For one, we'd take a monster cap hit next season.
Second, the guy's going to be an All-Pro game-changer.
Third, I'd take out the entire front office before we traded him.

jamf · 05-25-2005, 04:19 AM

i getting tired of hearing this shit.

manley was not a "character guy".
riggins was not a "character guy".

joe gibbs needs to take control over his players. if he cant, he should go back to nascar.

gibbs has done a very poor job of dealing with his players.

look, dont renegotiate with taylor. if he holds out, the team can fine him 6k a day.
and if he holds out after week 6(or 8, i dont remember) the skins can take away his years salary and some signing bonus. you dont get rid of him. you will never get anything near his value.
its best to just take the major loss and stand with integrity than give in to this BS.

btw, ST has 6 years left on his contract, he wont hold out for half his career.

please joe gibbs, dont fuck this up.

offiss · 05-25-2005, 04:20 AM

We heard the same kind of nonesense last year when he was firing his agents, and he would be a big holdout and on and on, and guess what he was one of the first guy's in, now anyone close to him say's he just want's to stay away from the media as long as possible because he's tired of them, and it's a contract holdout, has anyone heard Taylor say he's holding out for a new contract? People like to make up there own stories and he's probably tired of it. Taylor is not an outgoing guy, but that doesn't make him a bad guy, my money is on him being at mandatory workout's.

NY_Skinsfan · 05-25-2005, 04:37 AM

Look, the kid just wanted to completely get away from football for awhile...He'll be here when it's mandatory. This isn't about his contract. Next year when he has another year under his belt he will feel more confortable with how the nfl works so he won't need to get away like he does this year. Then next year he will show up to the not-so-mandatory, mandatory practices......and we will all forget this ever happened. Hell, in week one when makes his first big monster tackle for the season we won't even remember this happened.

That Guy · 05-25-2005, 05:25 AM

the kid may be a nutcase, but he wants to play more than anything else... he rushed a bad deal because he didn't want to risk not playing, and he was crying when he didn't start that first game...

its a bit like the LT deal... if he weren't so good, he'd be gone... but he's relatively cheap, he can play well and if he's not showing up to our camp (bundled with the offseason stuff) his trade value won't be nearly as high as you think it'd be...

he hasn't missed anything mandatory yet, so until he does (or starts stinking it up) i'm not going to be that concerned...

hall is semi-insurance, but the real motive was that gregg williams likes safeties that can cover more than CBs who can't... hall is super cheap and he was a starter; the guy they let go has 0 starts to his name i believe...

Redskins8588 · 05-25-2005, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahoe Skin

I'm tired of having Broncos and Jets laughing at us.

I dont understand why the Broncos are laughing at us? The Jets, maybe, but not the Broncos. Why because they got Bailey and a second round pick for Portis? So what, for Bailey being a "shut down" corner he did get lit up alot last year. As for the second round pick, wasnt that Tatum Bell? What has he done so far? Yeah, he will be a good back in there system, but so what!! Would you rather us have Candidate running the ball for us still? I would hope not!! And yeah Betts is a good RB when he isnt hurt, and just because he had one good game against the Vikings D last year, I wouldnt rush him into the starting position just yet...

CRT3 · 05-25-2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

gibbs has done a very poor job of dealing with his players.

look, dont renegotiate with taylor. if he holds out, the team can fine him 6k a day.
and if he holds out after week 6(or 8, i dont remember) the skins can take away his years salary and some signing bonus. you dont get rid of him. you will never get anything near his value.
its best to just take the major loss and stand with integrity than give in to this BS.

btw, ST has 6 years left on his contract, he wont hold out for half his career.

please joe gibbs, dont fuck this up.

How has Gibbs mishandled his players, I just don't get your statement. The only one that has left unhappy under Gibbs was Coles.

Has he renegotiated with Taylor? All he has said publicly is that he is disappointed that he is a no show at voluntary camp. If he starts to miss time then he will be fined under the guidlines of the CBA.

Gibbs has had plenty of head cases on teams in the past and always seems to find a way of dealing with each player individually. #36 sorry number 21 or is it 36, no its 21 will feel the wrath from the best fans on the planet.

Daseal · 05-25-2005, 08:23 AM

CRT - Gardner also asked to be traded. I wonder if it had something to do with Gibbs putting a lot of blame on our WRs while protecting Brunell and his system.

As far as Sean Taylor. Trading him is ridiculous. We'd NEVER get what he's worth (because in my opinion we may never see someone with his attributes again), and he hasn't done anything yet. The media lit him up last year. Let him relax and enjoy himself until camps become manditory. If he's not there when they're manditory -- start with the fines.

Paintrain · 05-25-2005, 09:16 AM

Please stop it with the Sean Taylor cut, traded, on the way out garbage.. Per his contract HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG! He is missing VOLUNTARY workout and team activities. Granted he is the only one on the team not there, but until he misses anything mandatory all he is hurting is people's feelings.. Good lord people relax..

MTK · 05-25-2005, 09:19 AM

Let's not blow things out of proportion here, Hall is being brought in for depth, I really don't think there's any need to look at this move any other way.

Taylor isn't missing mandatory practices. As much as it sucks, and as much as the staff would like him to be there, guess what? He doesn't have to be there. Once the workouts become mandatory, if he doesn't show then we'll have cause for concern.

Schneed10 · 05-25-2005, 09:35 AM

Yeah it's definitely way way too early to seriously think about trading the guy. I don't think he's a bad guy, I think he's just shy and reserved. He also is coming off his rookie season in which he played 16 games plus 5 preseason games, as opposed to the 11 or 12 he was used to in college. I'm sure that has taken it's toll on him. So if reports say that he just needs a break and he'll report when it's mandatory, then I am inclined to believe that until he proves otherwise. Let's cut the guy some slack, it's not like he's pulling a Randy Moss and walking off the field while there's time left on the clock, or pulling a TO and demanding to renegotiate after one year.

TheMalcolmConnection · 05-25-2005, 09:46 AM

I don't know about shy, my friend has a picture of Sean posterizing him at a basketball court.

However, I really don't think he's a bad guy either. Definitely an introvert and I think he'll be here when it's mandatory.

PSUSkinsFan21 · 05-25-2005, 09:58 AM

First let me respond to the question posed by the thread: I don't agree that we should look to trade or cut ST at this point. I would, however support plugging Hall in for the first few series of the first few games to let Taylor sit on the bench and think about why he's not starting for this football TEAM.

That said, I'm really shocked at how many people are so willing to make excuses for this guy. He needs time away from football? What? Is there any reason on earth why Sean Taylor deserves more time away from football than any other player in the league? Is there any other second year player in the entire NFL sitting at home right now taking an extended offseason because they're just not quite used to this whole NFL thing? Is there any other player in the league sitting at home, pretty much for no reason at all right now? I mean we talk about this guy like he's more fragile than our wives/girlfriends when it's a really bad month with heavy flow.

Look, I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I have a problem downplaying ST's absence as just a minor inconvenience or no big deal because the workouts are "voluntary". I mean for just one moment, step back and consider how ST looks to you in any other uniform. I mean picture Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald or Jonathan Vilma sitting at home right now, refusing to return their coach's calls, and simply not showing up for OTAs without a single excuse (except rampid speculation that they just wanted a few more weeks after over 3 months off to chill and keep away from the media). What would you think about those guys?

I'm just bothered by how much people are willing to cater to the 4 year old who wants to sit in the corner pouting, avoiding everyone else at the party because somebody said "boo" to them.

I'm sorry if I'm an insensitive prick (and many times I am), but this little boy has got some SERIOUS growing up to do. And I, for one, am concerned that that immaturity IS going to effect his development as a football player and his abilities on the field. And, Yes, I do hope I am dead wrong.

Schneed10 · 05-25-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

First let me respond to the question posed by the thread: I don't agree that we should look to trade or cut ST at this point. I would, however support plugging Hall in for the first few series of the first few games to let Taylor sit on the bench and think about why he's not starting for this football TEAM.

That said, I'm really shocked at how many people are so willing to make excuses for this guy. He needs time away from football? What? Is there any reason on earth why Sean Taylor deserves more time away from football than any other player in the league? Is there any other second year player in the entire NFL sitting at home right now taking an extended offseason because they're just not quite used to this whole NFL thing? Is there any other player in the league sitting at home, pretty much for no reason at all right now? I mean we talk about this guy like he's more fragile than our wives/girlfriends when it's a really bad month with heavy flow.

Look, I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I have a problem downplaying ST's absence as just a minor inconvenience or no big deal because the workouts are "voluntary". I mean for just one moment, step back and consider how ST looks to you in any other uniform. I mean picture Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald or Jonathan Vilma sitting at home right now, refusing to return their coach's calls, and simply not showing up for OTAs without a single excuse (except rampid speculation that they just wanted a few more weeks after over 3 months off to chill and keep away from the media). What would you think about those guys?

I'm just bothered by how much people are willing to cater to the 4 year old who wants to sit in the corner pouting, avoiding everyone else at the party because somebody said "boo" to them.

I'm sorry if I'm an insensitive prick (and many times I am), but this little boy has got some SERIOUS growing up to do. And I, for one, am concerned that that immaturity IS going to effect his development as a football player and his abilities on the field. And, Yes, I do hope I am dead wrong.

You love the "voluntary doesn't mean voluntary" argument. But I'm sorry it does. It is what it is. Is Taylor a pussy? Yes. Does he need to get his act together? Yes. Does he need to grow up? Yes. Does he need to get in touch with coach Gibbs? Yes. Does he have to show up for these OTAs? NO.

Are other players there, despite the fact these workouts are voluntary? Yes. Is this cause for us to question Sean Taylor's committment to the Redskins? Yes. Should we demand improvement from him? Yes. Should we cut him or trade him, or even bench him for a game? No way, not until he does something WRONG.

And that's your bottom line.

05-25-2005, 02:58 AM	#1
Tahoe Skin Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 100	Hall In, Taylor Out?? Does anyone get the impression that we signed Cory Hall because either (1) the Skins know Sean Taylor may not be showing up for mandatory camp, and/or (2) the Skins are taking their first step to eventually unloading Sean Taylor? After all, Taylor's been downright rude to Gibbs, is obviously not the Redskin "character-type" that Gibbs likes, and is seemingly the Coles-type distraction that Gibbs is wont to unload: selfish, disgruntled and contractually unatainable. I mean if he wouldn't return my calls, and winds up holding out - I'd negotiate with teams and try to unload him for multiple high picks. Maybe not just yet, but maybe in June when he decides to hold out! I know, I know - you would think Taylor knows he runs the risk of losing $$$ if he doesn't show up for mandatory camp. But maybe he's smoking that same Florida ganja that Ricky was smoking. Or, maybe, just maybe Rosenhaus is thinking that if Sean Taylor pisses the Skins off the way Coles did, the Skins will pull another bonehead move and trade Taylor just the way they gave in to Coles. So . . . Taylor gets traded, Taylor gets the sweet deal that he'd like, and the Skins get slammed like they did in the Coles/Jets deal. Do I hear Champ Bailey and the Denver Broncos giggling, and is that Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot smirking in the background?? Or maybe we learned our lesson in the Coles/Jets deal and will let Taylor sit for a year, call it a breach of contract, and then smartly spread his money around to upgrade our DE/DT/LG spots for the coming year? And then, we do what the Dolphins did!!! Go after all that bonus money the player got! Hey, how bout that: The Skins finally get smart in their negotiations. Or, perhaps it's just the contract lawyer in me that's tired of seeing teams stupidly tear up bilaterally negotiated contracts by caving in to the ridiculous demands of today's prima donnas. Or, maybe it's just late and there's doesn't seem to be any interesting news to purview. But, if we are going to trade him, can we please get someone who knows how to negotiate with other teams? :smashfrea I'm tired of having Broncos and Jets laughing at us.

05-25-2005, 03:59 AM	#2
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? There is no way that ST will be traded or cut. For one, we'd take a monster cap hit next season. Second, the guy's going to be an All-Pro game-changer. Third, I'd take out the entire front office before we traded him.

05-25-2005, 04:20 AM	#4
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? We heard the same kind of nonesense last year when he was firing his agents, and he would be a big holdout and on and on, and guess what he was one of the first guy's in, now anyone close to him say's he just want's to stay away from the media as long as possible because he's tired of them, and it's a contract holdout, has anyone heard Taylor say he's holding out for a new contract? People like to make up there own stories and he's probably tired of it. Taylor is not an outgoing guy, but that doesn't make him a bad guy, my money is on him being at mandatory workout's.

05-25-2005, 04:37 AM	#5
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 51 Posts: 838	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? Look, the kid just wanted to completely get away from football for awhile...He'll be here when it's mandatory. This isn't about his contract. Next year when he has another year under his belt he will feel more confortable with how the nfl works so he won't need to get away like he does this year. Then next year he will show up to the not-so-mandatory, mandatory practices......and we will all forget this ever happened. Hell, in week one when makes his first big monster tackle for the season we won't even remember this happened.

05-25-2005, 05:25 AM	#6
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 41 Posts: 17,553	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? the kid may be a nutcase, but he wants to play more than anything else... he rushed a bad deal because he didn't want to risk not playing, and he was crying when he didn't start that first game... its a bit like the LT deal... if he weren't so good, he'd be gone... but he's relatively cheap, he can play well and if he's not showing up to our camp (bundled with the offseason stuff) his trade value won't be nearly as high as you think it'd be... he hasn't missed anything mandatory yet, so until he does (or starts stinking it up) i'm not going to be that concerned... hall is semi-insurance, but the real motive was that gregg williams likes safeties that can cover more than CBs who can't... hall is super cheap and he was a starter; the guy they let go has 0 starts to his name i believe...

05-25-2005, 04:19 AM	#3
jamf Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 5,249	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? i getting tired of hearing this shit. manley was not a "character guy". riggins was not a "character guy". joe gibbs needs to take control over his players. if he cant, he should go back to nascar. gibbs has done a very poor job of dealing with his players. look, dont renegotiate with taylor. if he holds out, the team can fine him 6k a day. and if he holds out after week 6(or 8, i dont remember) the skins can take away his years salary and some signing bonus. you dont get rid of him. you will never get anything near his value. its best to just take the major loss and stand with integrity than give in to this BS. btw, ST has 6 years left on his contract, he wont hold out for half his career. please joe gibbs, dont fuck this up.

05-25-2005, 08:23 AM	#9
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? CRT - Gardner also asked to be traded. I wonder if it had something to do with Gibbs putting a lot of blame on our WRs while protecting Brunell and his system. As far as Sean Taylor. Trading him is ridiculous. We'd NEVER get what he's worth (because in my opinion we may never see someone with his attributes again), and he hasn't done anything yet. The media lit him up last year. Let him relax and enjoy himself until camps become manditory. If he's not there when they're manditory -- start with the fines. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

05-25-2005, 09:16 AM	#10
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? Please stop it with the Sean Taylor cut, traded, on the way out garbage.. Per his contract HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG! He is missing VOLUNTARY workout and team activities. Granted he is the only one on the team not there, but until he misses anything mandatory all he is hurting is people's feelings.. Good lord people relax..

05-25-2005, 09:19 AM	#11
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,408	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? Let's not blow things out of proportion here, Hall is being brought in for depth, I really don't think there's any need to look at this move any other way. Taylor isn't missing mandatory practices. As much as it sucks, and as much as the staff would like him to be there, guess what? He doesn't have to be there. Once the workouts become mandatory, if he doesn't show then we'll have cause for concern. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

05-25-2005, 09:35 AM	#12
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,421	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? Yeah it's definitely way way too early to seriously think about trading the guy. I don't think he's a bad guy, I think he's just shy and reserved. He also is coming off his rookie season in which he played 16 games plus 5 preseason games, as opposed to the 11 or 12 he was used to in college. I'm sure that has taken it's toll on him. So if reports say that he just needs a break and he'll report when it's mandatory, then I am inclined to believe that until he proves otherwise. Let's cut the guy some slack, it's not like he's pulling a Randy Moss and walking off the field while there's time left on the clock, or pulling a TO and demanding to renegotiate after one year.

05-25-2005, 09:46 AM	#13
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? I don't know about shy, my friend has a picture of Sean posterizing him at a basketball court. However, I really don't think he's a bad guy either. Definitely an introvert and I think he'll be here when it's mandatory. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

05-25-2005, 09:58 AM	#14
PSUSkinsFan21 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 48 Posts: 1,340	Re: Hall In, Taylor Out?? First let me respond to the question posed by the thread: I don't agree that we should look to trade or cut ST at this point. I would, however support plugging Hall in for the first few series of the first few games to let Taylor sit on the bench and think about why he's not starting for this football TEAM. That said, I'm really shocked at how many people are so willing to make excuses for this guy. He needs time away from football? What? Is there any reason on earth why Sean Taylor deserves more time away from football than any other player in the league? Is there any other second year player in the entire NFL sitting at home right now taking an extended offseason because they're just not quite used to this whole NFL thing? Is there any other player in the league sitting at home, pretty much for no reason at all right now? I mean we talk about this guy like he's more fragile than our wives/girlfriends when it's a really bad month with heavy flow. Look, I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I have a problem downplaying ST's absence as just a minor inconvenience or no big deal because the workouts are "voluntary". I mean for just one moment, step back and consider how ST looks to you in any other uniform. I mean picture Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald or Jonathan Vilma sitting at home right now, refusing to return their coach's calls, and simply not showing up for OTAs without a single excuse (except rampid speculation that they just wanted a few more weeks after over 3 months off to chill and keep away from the media). What would you think about those guys? I'm just bothered by how much people are willing to cater to the 4 year old who wants to sit in the corner pouting, avoiding everyone else at the party because somebody said "boo" to them. I'm sorry if I'm an insensitive prick (and many times I am), but this little boy has got some SERIOUS growing up to do. And I, for one, am concerned that that immaturity IS going to effect his development as a football player and his abilities on the field. And, Yes, I do hope I am dead wrong. __________________ "Hail to the Redskins!" and "Fight on State!"

Hall In, Taylor Out??

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