Lets make a deal

diehardskin2982 · 02-22-2005, 03:14 PM

What kind of deal would you like the Redskins to get for L.C? What do you expect the deal to be right now, releasing him, or trading him is a financial constraint to the Skins. Everything is a lose- Lose situation. So therefore let play 'lets make a deal' and come up with some sugestions on how to deal with this problem.

I never believed in something for nothing. Releasing Coles to me would just be absurd. He is a great player, who has value. So the skins are in the driver seat so, it may be the seat of a hoptie but its a seat non the less.

If I was the GM I would try one of these two trades. First I'd try a LC for Darren Howard and our 2nd rounder back. I'd offer nothing more, nothing less if they didn't accept the trade thats fine I'd move on. We have a good trade relationship with the saints, so it might work. Horn is getting older and stallworth seems to be a bust.

Another Idea would be a trade for boldin out of Arizona. The cardinals would get they're deep threat in Coles, and we would get our tough guy in Boldin. Boldin was injured last season so I hoped that brought down his trade value.
Bye Coles

Hello Boldin

I don't know what would happen, knowing snyder we may still be in the picture for the Moss trade now...

skinsguy · 02-22-2005, 03:25 PM

It seems that Coles is pushing to become a free agent, I don't believe we would actually aquire any type of deal other than just letting him go. Maybe the only deal I see, is telling his agent...we'll let Coles be a free agent and go to any team of his choosing so as long as he makes it easier on us, salary cap wise. Otherwise, I'm thinking about the only way out would be for him to retire.

Big C · 02-22-2005, 03:50 PM

id trade coles for a different position, cuz i think we could get a better player from another position. if we trader WR for WR, their skills prolly wouldnt match up well since coles has a bad toe and we are desperate. id trade him for DE abraham or a good DT/CB, maybe even a safety.

Beemnseven · 02-22-2005, 04:00 PM

As someone else has already stated in another thread, it was leaked that the Redskins were going to release Coles anyway. You don't EVER give away one of your players for a guy who from all indications was already expected to be released. That doesn't even take into account the reports of a nagging toe injury.

Just like Wilber Marshall of long ago, and the Champ Bailey fiasco just recently, the Skins are going to have another one broken off in the ass yet again -- getting nothing in return for great players that get pryed away.

Instead of all these free agents, why don't we try to sign Scott Peoli of the Patriots? Maybe that way we can stop the endless train of boneheaded, buffoon-like personnel decisions.

celts32 · 02-22-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What kind of deal would you like the Redskins to get for L.C? What do you expect the deal to be right now, releasing him, or trading him is a financial constraint to the Skins. Everything is a lose- Lose situation. So therefore let play 'lets make a deal' and come up with some sugestions on how to deal with this problem.

I never believed in something for nothing. Releasing Coles to me would just be absurd. He is a great player, who has value. So the skins are in the driver seat so, it may be the seat of a hoptie but its a seat non the less.

If I was the GM I would try one of these two trades. First I'd try a LC for Darren Howard and our 2nd rounder back. I'd offer nothing more, nothing less if they didn't accept the trade thats fine I'd move on. We have a good trade relationship with the saints, so it might work. Horn is getting older and stallworth seems to be a bust.

Another Idea would be a trade for boldin out of Arizona. The cardinals would get they're deep threat in Coles, and we would get our tough guy in Boldin. Boldin was injured last season so I hoped that brought down his trade value.
Bye Coles

Hello Boldin

I don't know what would happen, knowing snyder we may still be in the picture for the Moss trade now...

I don't think Coles is a great player. He had one great season in NY but that was 3 years ago and one bad toe injury ago. I would be shocked if the skins got more than a #2 for him, but it's more like a #3. Most teams will probably wait until he is a free agent and get him for free. Why would anyone want to trade draft picks or players for someone who is most likely to be released.

The Abraham trade is ludicrous also. The Jets would have to be insane to trade a premeir DE for a damaged WR. ABrahams value is somewhere between one and two #1 picks. Can anyone on this board make a case for LC having that sort of value?

I think the best we can do is get him to give back some money and just release him.

MTK · 02-22-2005, 04:08 PM

At this point if we just get the $5M in cap relief for his bonus I'd be happy. If we don't have to bite the full bullet for his release I'll take that as a small victory.

At this point I think it's best to just resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

If we can pull the trigger on a trade I'd be very surprised.

DCopper04 · 02-22-2005, 04:10 PM

To start things off, under no circumstances would I let Coles walk. We must get something for him. This means that he will have to convert a large portion of his bonus into base salary, and work out an agreement with the other team on a new contract. If he does not agree to giving up his bonus along with being traded, then we must keep him. We cannot absorb a $9M cap hit because Coles is unsatisfied with his 90 receptions.

The odds of us getting a great deal for him are slim, but I think we would do well to try and fill a void by either getting a solid player at a needed position or getting a draft pick (likely a 2nd rounder.) All of this speculation about getting Abraham is nonsense. Abraham's value outweighs Coles' by a longshot. In the best case scenario, I see us getting a 2nd rounder so that we can draft an interior lineman. That gets rid of a problem player and helps to fill one of our main needs.

celts32 · 02-22-2005, 04:18 PM

I would be thrilled to just get the 5 million back and move on. Look at it this way, in today's NFL salary cap era 5 million in cap space is like getting a player in return. With an additional 5 million in cap space they can sign a player equal to Coles in value. Actually, with 5 million in cap space you can sign almost any player in the league and fit it in to the cap. We don't need controversy this offseason. The player doesn't want to be here so get rid of him and move on. No one player on this team is more important than the whole. Gibbs is building an organization for the long haul and he has no intentions of building it with people that don't want to be part of it.

celts32 · 02-22-2005, 04:24 PM

And as far as the likelyhood of the trade goes...do you see any teams lining up to trade for Mushin Muhamed right now? Nope, becasue they know that Carolina is going to cut him. Trading Coles is nonsense...the Redskins are going to look into it for sure becasue they would be stupid to at least not explore every avenue. But in the end they will find cool trade waters and come to the realization that they need to just cut ties with LC and move on...

MTK · 02-22-2005, 04:25 PM

Well, it's not like we're getting $5M in cap space, we're just getting $5M taken off his cap hit. We won't be getting off scott free, but the hit won't be as severe.

Instead of a $9M cap hit, we might be looking at $3-4.

MTK · 02-22-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

And as far as the likelyhood of the trade goes...do you see any teams lining up to trade for Mushin Muhamed right now? Nope, becasue they know that Carolina is going to cut him. Trading Coles is nonsense...the Redskins are going to look into it for sure becasue they would be stupid to at least not explore every avenue. But in the end they will find cool trade waters and come to the realization that they need to just cut ties with LC and move on...

Muhammad is due a very large bonus, $10 or $12 mill I believe, so you're right, unless the Panthers want to eat that they'll more than likely end up cutting him.

No use in trading for a guy you know is going to hit the open market eventually. If we get anything for Gardner and Coles we'll be extremely lucky.

celts32 · 02-22-2005, 04:30 PM

Maybe I don't understand this fully, but if he gives back 5 million we take the other 3 against our cap this year like you said but we then have a 35 million dollar player off our books after this season. So maybe they don't get a full 5 million to use right now, but they are wiping off a big contract for only a 3 million dollar dead money charge. This should help the cap situation in the future when experts were speculating cap problems for the Redskins.

Basically, what i am trying to say is they have to get helped capwise by this at some point assuming he gives money back.

celts32 · 02-22-2005, 04:41 PM

I may be in the minority, because I know I am among many LC fans on this site. However, I think the LC signing was a mistake to begin with so if they can get out of it for only a 3-4 million dollar hit this year I will be okay with that. I don't really want to rehash the same old argument, but I just don't think LC is a #1 NFL WR. And I have just agreed to disagree with the Warpath LC fans...

diehardskin2982 · 02-22-2005, 04:59 PM

First, this was a shocker to everyone we weren't going to release coles until yesterday he was even mentioned as trade talk or as a cut, he was suppose to help ramsey mature as the #1 reciever. Secondly coles is good, he had a good year in NY and a two good years with us. Although he didn't score as much he led in receptions with a career high 90. That is why most in the media and the NFL are shocked by this occurance. Thirdly, not by any surcumstance do we HAVE TO LET COLES GO. He wants to leave, so did Ramsey when Brunnel was first brought in. So if it's in the skins best interest well release him, otherwise tuff luck bitch you still gota play for us. This is not a career where u get go to often he's still under contract!

Now with that said it not like we couldn't package a deal with both Coles and Gardner for someone big like Moss or Abraham. Open ur minds people we have NFL caliber stars, not high school scrubs!

Schneed10 · 02-22-2005, 07:36 PM

Cap Situation:

Scenario 1: If Coles is on our team in 2005, his cap hit in 2005 will be 3.357 million.

Scenario 2: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he doesn't give back any of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 9.28 million.

Scenario 3: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he gives back $5 million of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 4.285 million.

And if he is cut or traded before March 1, he will be totally cleared from our cap in 2006 and beyond.

I'm with Matty, I'd be happy with scenario 3, damage is minimal. I'm a realist, not many teams are in cap shape to take on a guy like Coles. The Cowboys are, but if we are talking a trade, there's no way we're sending him there. I think Coles is worth a first rounder as a player, he had 2 straight 1200 yard seasons, and last year he had 90 catches. He works hard and keeps a low profile during the season. Even though he's worth a lot talent-wise, I'd be surprised if we can get more than a 2nd rounder. A 3rd rounder is more realistic. But to tell you the truth, in today's NFL, we should be happy with just not getting hosed by a major cap hit. That is if you want to be a realist.

02-22-2005, 04:00 PM	#4
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 50 Posts: 5,311	Re: Lets make a deal As someone else has already stated in another thread, it was leaked that the Redskins were going to release Coles anyway. You don't EVER give away one of your players for a guy who from all indications was already expected to be released. That doesn't even take into account the reports of a nagging toe injury. Just like Wilber Marshall of long ago, and the Champ Bailey fiasco just recently, the Skins are going to have another one broken off in the ass yet again -- getting nothing in return for great players that get pryed away. Instead of all these free agents, why don't we try to sign Scott Peoli of the Patriots? Maybe that way we can stop the endless train of boneheaded, buffoon-like personnel decisions.

02-22-2005, 04:08 PM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,424	Re: Lets make a deal At this point if we just get the $5M in cap relief for his bonus I'd be happy. If we don't have to bite the full bullet for his release I'll take that as a small victory. At this point I think it's best to just resolve this situation as quickly as possible. If we can pull the trigger on a trade I'd be very surprised. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

02-22-2005, 04:10 PM	#7
DCopper04 Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 59	Re: Lets make a deal To start things off, under no circumstances would I let Coles walk. We must get something for him. This means that he will have to convert a large portion of his bonus into base salary, and work out an agreement with the other team on a new contract. If he does not agree to giving up his bonus along with being traded, then we must keep him. We cannot absorb a $9M cap hit because Coles is unsatisfied with his 90 receptions. The odds of us getting a great deal for him are slim, but I think we would do well to try and fill a void by either getting a solid player at a needed position or getting a draft pick (likely a 2nd rounder.) All of this speculation about getting Abraham is nonsense. Abraham's value outweighs Coles' by a longshot. In the best case scenario, I see us getting a 2nd rounder so that we can draft an interior lineman. That gets rid of a problem player and helps to fill one of our main needs.

02-22-2005, 04:18 PM	#8
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	Re: Lets make a deal I would be thrilled to just get the 5 million back and move on. Look at it this way, in today's NFL salary cap era 5 million in cap space is like getting a player in return. With an additional 5 million in cap space they can sign a player equal to Coles in value. Actually, with 5 million in cap space you can sign almost any player in the league and fit it in to the cap. We don't need controversy this offseason. The player doesn't want to be here so get rid of him and move on. No one player on this team is more important than the whole. Gibbs is building an organization for the long haul and he has no intentions of building it with people that don't want to be part of it.

02-22-2005, 04:24 PM	#9
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	Re: Lets make a deal And as far as the likelyhood of the trade goes...do you see any teams lining up to trade for Mushin Muhamed right now? Nope, becasue they know that Carolina is going to cut him. Trading Coles is nonsense...the Redskins are going to look into it for sure becasue they would be stupid to at least not explore every avenue. But in the end they will find cool trade waters and come to the realization that they need to just cut ties with LC and move on...

02-22-2005, 03:14 PM	#1
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Lets make a deal What kind of deal would you like the Redskins to get for L.C? What do you expect the deal to be right now, releasing him, or trading him is a financial constraint to the Skins. Everything is a lose- Lose situation. So therefore let play 'lets make a deal' and come up with some sugestions on how to deal with this problem. I never believed in something for nothing. Releasing Coles to me would just be absurd. He is a great player, who has value. So the skins are in the driver seat so, it may be the seat of a hoptie but its a seat non the less. If I was the GM I would try one of these two trades. First I'd try a LC for Darren Howard and our 2nd rounder back. I'd offer nothing more, nothing less if they didn't accept the trade thats fine I'd move on. We have a good trade relationship with the saints, so it might work. Horn is getting older and stallworth seems to be a bust. Another Idea would be a trade for boldin out of Arizona. The cardinals would get they're deep threat in Coles, and we would get our tough guy in Boldin. Boldin was injured last season so I hoped that brought down his trade value. Bye Coles Hello Boldin I don't know what would happen, knowing snyder we may still be in the picture for the Moss trade now... __________________ That got ugly fast

02-22-2005, 03:25 PM	#2
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Lets make a deal It seems that Coles is pushing to become a free agent, I don't believe we would actually aquire any type of deal other than just letting him go. Maybe the only deal I see, is telling his agent...we'll let Coles be a free agent and go to any team of his choosing so as long as he makes it easier on us, salary cap wise. Otherwise, I'm thinking about the only way out would be for him to retire. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

02-22-2005, 03:50 PM	#3
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,453	Re: Lets make a deal id trade coles for a different position, cuz i think we could get a better player from another position. if we trader WR for WR, their skills prolly wouldnt match up well since coles has a bad toe and we are desperate. id trade him for DE abraham or a good DT/CB, maybe even a safety. __________________ "I don't care what nobody say I'm a be me, stay hood stay real, cause I'm out here grindin'" -Joe Gibbs

02-22-2005, 04:25 PM	#10
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,424	Re: Lets make a deal Well, it's not like we're getting $5M in cap space, we're just getting $5M taken off his cap hit. We won't be getting off scott free, but the hit won't be as severe. Instead of a $9M cap hit, we might be looking at $3-4. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

02-22-2005, 04:30 PM	#12
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	Re: Lets make a deal Maybe I don't understand this fully, but if he gives back 5 million we take the other 3 against our cap this year like you said but we then have a 35 million dollar player off our books after this season. So maybe they don't get a full 5 million to use right now, but they are wiping off a big contract for only a 3 million dollar dead money charge. This should help the cap situation in the future when experts were speculating cap problems for the Redskins. Basically, what i am trying to say is they have to get helped capwise by this at some point assuming he gives money back.

02-22-2005, 04:41 PM	#13
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	Re: Lets make a deal I may be in the minority, because I know I am among many LC fans on this site. However, I think the LC signing was a mistake to begin with so if they can get out of it for only a 3-4 million dollar hit this year I will be okay with that. I don't really want to rehash the same old argument, but I just don't think LC is a #1 NFL WR. And I have just agreed to disagree with the Warpath LC fans...

02-22-2005, 04:59 PM	#14
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Re: Lets make a deal First, this was a shocker to everyone we weren't going to release coles until yesterday he was even mentioned as trade talk or as a cut, he was suppose to help ramsey mature as the #1 reciever. Secondly coles is good, he had a good year in NY and a two good years with us. Although he didn't score as much he led in receptions with a career high 90. That is why most in the media and the NFL are shocked by this occurance. Thirdly, not by any surcumstance do we HAVE TO LET COLES GO. He wants to leave, so did Ramsey when Brunnel was first brought in. So if it's in the skins best interest well release him, otherwise tuff luck bitch you still gota play for us. This is not a career where u get go to often he's still under contract! Now with that said it not like we couldn't package a deal with both Coles and Gardner for someone big like Moss or Abraham. Open ur minds people we have NFL caliber stars, not high school scrubs! __________________ That got ugly fast

02-22-2005, 07:36 PM	#15
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 44 Posts: 12,416	Re: Lets make a deal Cap Situation: Scenario 1: If Coles is on our team in 2005, his cap hit in 2005 will be 3.357 million. Scenario 2: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he doesn't give back any of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 9.28 million. Scenario 3: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he gives back $5 million of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 4.285 million. And if he is cut or traded before March 1, he will be totally cleared from our cap in 2006 and beyond. I'm with Matty, I'd be happy with scenario 3, damage is minimal. I'm a realist, not many teams are in cap shape to take on a guy like Coles. The Cowboys are, but if we are talking a trade, there's no way we're sending him there. I think Coles is worth a first rounder as a player, he had 2 straight 1200 yard seasons, and last year he had 90 catches. He works hard and keeps a low profile during the season. Even though he's worth a lot talent-wise, I'd be surprised if we can get more than a 2nd rounder. A 3rd rounder is more realistic. But to tell you the truth, in today's NFL, we should be happy with just not getting hosed by a major cap hit. That is if you want to be a realist.

Lets make a deal

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