Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I do 100% agree with you there.
I will say this though...remember the Spurrier era here? The send everyone out to catch and skrew blocking era? I guess I am just more hesitant to put Cooley out to catch when our O line is hurting. I know we need him to catch and open up the offense, but we need blocking too.

With Moss gimpy we need all the help we can get in the passing game. Cooley is too good to be relegated to blocking. We gotta score more!!!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GMScud

With Moss gimpy we need all the help we can get in the passing game. Cooley is too good to be relegated to blocking. We gotta score more!!!

We won't score more without blocking. The O line is the most important "overall" position on the field IMO. It all starts there.

I like the idea of two TE sets though. Let Yoder block...he can't really catch well. LOL.

[4mrusmc]

Back in the day when Joe ver.1 was beating up the NFL, we simply had a COMPLETE team at every position, with an emphasis put on the O-line. Our O-line was hands down, the best in the league. Nobody blocked better for the running game, and nobody pass protected better. Come the 4th quarter, other teams simply tapped-out from the pounding. Also, we were winning games by big scores, and doing so with no trickery. It wasn't fancy, just basic football played with heart, and a team that believed in what it was doing. This team has alot to prove from last year's disappointment, I'm willing to let them do it. Us as fans need to support them, but it is time to start playing like a team that has had the same Hall of Fame coach now for 4 years. This coach is a winner, and he has the Super Bowls to prove it, but that is long history. I'll just close by saying this, "Redskins, stop talking about doing something, and start doing something."

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

Back in the day when Joe ver.1 was beating up the NFL, we simply had a COMPLETE team at every position, with an emphasis put on the O-line. Our O-line was hands down, the best in the league. Nobody blocked better for the running game, and nobody pass protected better. Come the 4th quarter, other teams simply tapped-out from the pounding. Also, we were winning games by big scores, and doing so with no trickery. It wasn't fancy, just basic football played with heart, and a team that believed in what it was doing. This team has alot to prove from last year's disappointment, I'm willing to let them do it. Us as fans need to support them, but it is time to start playing like a team that has had the same Hall of Fame coach now for 4 years. This coach is a winner, and he has the Super Bowls to prove it, but that is long history. I'll just close by saying this, "Redskins, stop talking about doing something, and start doing something."

You bring the point up about the blocking. A while back I said here that if I had to start a team from scratch and I could have anyone I wanted, I would pick the best LT, RT, 2 guards, and Center in the league all first, then pick from there. You can have anyone play RB and just about anyone play QB if you have the best pass protection and run blocking money can buy. Gibbs knows this as well...Just look at Rypien, he was one of the worst QBs the Skins have ever had to start, but his protection was amazing and he had a couple good years here. I guarentee if Jason Campbell had that line, he would throw for 4000 yards.
The loss of Jansen and Thomas are hurting more than anyone wants to admit.

[The Zimmermans]

Let's look at the 4 undefeated teams in the league and their passing statistics.

Dallas Romo, TO, Clayton 1153 yards
Indy Manning, Harrison, Wayne 1051 yards
Green Bay Favre, Driver, Jennings 1155 yards
NE Brady, Moss, Stallworth 1099 yards


Washington Campbell, Moss, Randle El 792 yards

I factored in our average yards/game to calculate if we didn't have a bye.


Now, I know you guys are "happy" with 2-1, but I want 3-0....and 4-0.
We have what I think is a good QB and good WR's, lets play like it.....throw on first.....run on 2nd and third.....I don't care, just go for it!!!!!!!! The lions are gonnna score.....maybe 20+ points....they've done it every week, so we need to do the same.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

Gibbs style can work now. But the problem is he doesnt coach like he did in the past. He was to conservative now than he was in the past. When your up 14 points its not the time to sit on the ball. Its time to put your foot on the other teams ass and blow then out. Like Dallas does now and NE and the Colts. they keep on trying to score all the time. Keeping the pressure on the other teams all the time. We use to do that in the past with gibbs,

[skinsguy]

My thing is this. Let's rewind back to the Giants game. We were up 14 points in the second half. If I seem to remember correctly, didn't the Giants get the ball first in the second half? Didn't they score a TD on that drive? Maybe I'm wrong, but I was thinking this is what happened. So, basically, the Redskins had a 7 point lead when they received the ball. So, the 'skins get the ball back, do a quick three and out and the Giants come back and score again. Now, we're all tied up! So, is it the offense or defense or both? Hhmmm... Now, on the the real point....

If we throw three incomplete passes down field, stopping the clock each time we do this, then how is that any better than a ball controlled approach? Yeah, there is more time left for us to get the ball, but at the same time, it puts our defense back on the field just as fast, if not faster. Ok, well let's just pass on first down and run on second. Ok, well suppose that first down pass is incomplete. Are we going to run on second down? If we get a minimal gain on second down, we set ourselves up for a third and long. We throw an incompletion on that down, we still have to punt after a three an out, and we still stop the clock. This gives the opposing team more time and more opportunities to score.

I can see why Gibbs or any coach would want to apply a more ball controlled approach with a basically a rookie QB in the line up. Now, certainly you can say, "Well Romo is in the very same situation that Campbell is in." Yes, I agree, but the big difference is Dallas's receivers are doing a better job of catching the ball. Our receivers have dropped quite a few balls so far this year. If we had a few key passes caught from Moss, we would've beat both Miami and Philadelphia by larger margins. And, receivers doing a better job with catching the ball gives the QB more confidence to throw the ball down field AND gives the coach more confidence to open the offense up. But, that hasn't happened, and it sounds to me like those are problems with EXECUTION!

The point I'm making is this. You run more on first down. Even if you only gain a minimal amount of yards, you still have the opportunity to either pass or run again on second down. If either gives you a third and short, then you still have that option to either run or pass. And, you have higher percentage plays to choose from....plays that keep the clock running, keeps your offense on the field, and shortens the game.

This is what Gibbs is wanting to do for Campbell. He wants to shorten the game for the guy. Yes, being too conservative can bite ya in the butt and there is a fine line to follow with playing like this. However, it is better to bring a QB up like that, rather than to put him in the fire and expect him to win every game himself. Campbell is not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning...YET! He's Jason Campbell. He might be better than those guys in a couple of years, but we all have to learn patience. I've said this time and time again. Do I like to lose? Heck no. But, I like things being down right. I am much like Gibbs when it comes to paying attention to detail. I don't want to assume anything. With Gibbs, he's still trying to figure out what type of players he has. He is still trying to see what Campbell can really do for us. It's going to take this season for the coaching staff and the fans to really know what Campbell can do. And yet, we're still 2-1 and have a good chance at having a winning record this year. We all should see that Jason Campbell isn't quite there yet, but this is what is so exciting. The fact that he is just getting started, making his mistakes, but still leading his team to a winning record. We all want perfection right away. Well, it's not going to happen right away.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

Yes but Gibbs comments coming out of the half. Was that he was worried about pass pertection, even though we starting passing on the giants at the beginning of the game throwing deep to moss. He was so worried about the protecting the second half to run on first down, Instead of teams like dallas,NE<Indy who keep going for the jugular.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR

Yes but Gibbs comments coming out of the half. Was that he was worried about pass pertection, even though we starting passing on the giants at the beginning of the game throwing deep to moss. He was so worried about the protecting the second half to run on first down, Instead of teams like dallas,NE<Indy who keep going for the jugular.

But we have the right side of our line out because of injury. Wouldn't you think pass protection would be a concern? Like I said earlier, those teams are better than us at completing passes. Our receivers have dropped a lot very catchable balls this year.

Ah man...this topic starts with the notion that " Gibb's Football don't work" anymore as a fact.
What happens if the team gets rolling on a winning streak...do we start giving coach Gibbs credit for doing what he has always done?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by DCborn

Ah man...this topic starts with the notion that " Gibb's Football don't work" anymore as a fact.
What happens if the team gets rolling on a winning streak...do we start giving coach Gibbs credit for doing what he has always done?

He ALWAYS gets credit. No one can question him when we lose though. He is apparently a god.
I think we'll all gladly kiss his rings if he did what works...problem is he's not doing what works, he's stubbornly sticking to things that doesn't work!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DCborn

Ah man...this topic starts with the notion that " Gibb's Football don't work" anymore as a fact.
What happens if the team gets rolling on a winning streak...do we start giving coach Gibbs credit for doing what he has always done?

The intention of the thread was to ask why people think Gibbs' style of football doesn't work... when it clearly does since so many of his basic principles and overall influences are evident throughout the league.

Your point is well taken though, if the team gets on a hot streak the doubters will shut up and not say much of anything. That's just how things roll, people love to dwell on the negative and people typically have much more to say when things are going bad vs. when they are going good.

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The intention of the thread was to ask why people think Gibbs' style of football doesn't work... when it clearly does since so many of his basic principles and overall influences are evident throughout the league.

Your point is well taken though, if the team gets on a hot streak the doubters will shut up and not say much of anything. That's just how things roll, people love to dwell on the negative and people typically have much more to say when things are going bad vs. when they are going good.

I agree ...it's counter-productive riding that negative train...Why even go there.

[Skinsfanmania]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

"Gibbs' Football" permeates throughout the league. The single back sets you see all throughout the league, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Steelers offense that won them a Super Bowl 2 years ago, and has them at 3-0 this year, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Trips formations that the aforementioned Steelers and defending champion Colts use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The multiple (2-3) tight end sets that arguably the two best teams in the NFL today (Cowboys and Patriots) use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that.

Let's not forget the H-Back, this was also invented by Gibbs.

[BleedBurgundy]

I can't believe this thread is still going. When we score 28+ vs. the lions, what will everyone say then? That it was Al Saunders, not Gibbs? This bye week has taken, like, forever.