North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Just like I'm sure you'd be object at the thought that all atheists are Satan worshipers who kill little children and animals.

Why would anyone think that Atheists are satanists, given the definition of Atheist?

The rest is just defensive posturing. Religion is wrong.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. Voting against the Marriage Amendment would mean allowing the government to change the definition of marriage, and in turn, would mean that the Christian is agreeing to validating something that they believe is a sin; which in turn, that validation would be a sin within itself. It has nothing to do with Christians wanting to deny anybody rights.

Keep thinking that guy. This amendment not only snuffed the rights out for gay people, but also for the rights of man and women civil unions and domestic partnerships. SO, in order to "do right by god", they didn't mind destroying a crap ton of other rights for individuals (women, men, children) and benefits. Can you show me ONE verse in the bible that allows christian's to judge others, or even allows them to decide the fate of "sinners"? One verse? I'll be waiting.

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Really? How did you come to the conclusion that MOST people who voted for the amendment stated your above mentioned reason? Do you have a list of all names that voted in favor of the amendment and a quote from each and every person?

I wasn't coming to that conclusion, nor was I stating a fact. Hence I said, "If you were to ask", but I should have put the word "probably" in there to denote a hunch.

Originally Posted by skinsguy

You're obviously not a bible scholar. According to the Old Testament, under the Mosaic Law, it was called upon by God that ALL sin be punished by death. This isn't limited to homosexuality, but murder, adultery, robbery, rape, etc...we are no longer under THAT law according to the bible. Because Jesus Christ died on the cross for all sin, for all people, He bought salvation for humanity, so that all who come to Christ with a repentance heart has all sin forgiven. The bible also goes on to state that God was still a merciful God in those days after he spared King David's life when David committed sin. I don't remember you mentioning anything like that.

Wait....so let's go back to christian logic.

Random guy: Didn't the bible say this about your religion?
Christian response: We don't use the Old Testament anymore b/c Jesus died for our sins.

Random guy: Where does it say anything about homosexuality in the bible?
Christian response: It states clearly in the old testament.

Wait....so either you use the old testament...or you don't. You can't pick and ****ing choose guy. You are using verses to back up your silly logic and reasoning, but omitting others by saying they don't apply anymore.

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Secondly, the bible does state people from different religions should not marry because of being unequally yoked. I can tell you, for first hand experience, there are plenty of issues with that. Religion isn't just something people believe, it's a way of life, so having two people who are deeply rooted in their different faiths marry can be quite confusing to future children. Certainly you're not going to understand the importance, because you general seem to have a dislike for those of faith. I'm also not quite sure what this has to do with the thread anyway. And moreover, the divorce. If God puts two people together, let no one else separate. So, God hates divorce amongst His followers. The bible does state that divorce is permitted for reasons of adultery. So, if two people that God puts together divorce, that divorce is sin.

So since the divorce rate is higher in NC, than most states, wouldn't it be ironic and downright hypocritical that most of these people voting in favor of it are doing so because their religion says so? Since gay people can't marry, this would only mean the divorce rate is among the god fearing men/women of the state eh?

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Again, I want to know how many of those who voted in favor of the Marriage Amendment are divorcees, hooked on pornography, commits crime, and are heavy smokers, drinkers, and obese. Give me names, addresses, numbers, and your proof to back up what you claim. Otherwise, you're just spreading hate yourself. You haven't shown yourself to be any better a person than those you convict. I have no doubt there were some very ignorant people who voted for the amendment because of very ignorant reasons, but to sit there and say most people who voted for it does because of A, B, or C is ignorant in itself, because you don't know the reasoning that every person who voted for this thing had went through prior to voting day. You don't know their lives, you don't know their education, you don't know a thing about any of them, so don't sit there and be so smug in assuming you know people's reasoning as it pertains to this. It's all very opinionated assumptions, none of which were based on any facts at all.

I think you are taking my quote, and running with it even though it's not there. Let me share you my background. I grew up in a christian home. I went to a christian school. my family is still christian. I have seen how christians think and act all my life. I have never seen a bigger group of hypocrites in my life then the christian church.

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Are there any ignorant people out there who use their Christian faith for the wrong things? Sure there are! Just like there are ignorant atheists, ignorant Catholics, ignorant Muslims, ignorant Agnostics, etc.... nobody is perfect! But to put each and every religious person under the same label of hate shows as much, if not more ignorance and hate on your behave. You, my friend, fall under the same label of intolerance as those who you convict. However, even despite all of that, I would still give my life to save yours and your family if it was called for me to do so. I have a general love for all people, even those that are quite tough to show a hand of fellowship to. The biggest thing you need to understand is Christianity is not defined by those small hate groups such as the Westboro Baptist Church for instance. Just like I'm sure you'd be object at the thought that all atheists are Satan worshipers who kill little children and animals. The smallest and most radical groups are usually the ones with the loudest voice. Just remember that the next time you decide to through out your hate to others.

I suggest you look up what intolerant is. If I were intolerant, I would be asking for legislation to neuter these people so they could not breed their beliefs into this world. If I were intolerant, I would be requesting all religion banned and they muzzled. As it is, I am not. MY problem with these people is that their religion is affecting other people's lives.

Let's do the math here.

Gay marriages would impact the church or christian people in no way, shape, form or fashion.

Christian bigotry and "beliefs" deny people the right to have benefits, civil unions, and marriages.

Who's the "intolerant" ones around here? Looks like the vast majority (62%) of christians.


On a side note, I know 4 people right off the top off my head that voted for it and have been divorced(one of them married 3 times). Yet, had the nerve to post on facebook about the "Sanctity of Marriage". /facepalm

[NC_Skins]

Virginia Republicans Deny Judgeship to Gay Prosecutor - Yahoo! News


I guess god told them to vote against the gay guy as well. By voting against him, it proves our strong beliefs we have in god, even though I''ll most likely go out and do something later tonight that god said I shouldn't do.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Virginia Republicans Deny Judgeship to Gay Prosecutor - Yahoo! News


I guess god told them to vote against the gay guy as well. By voting against him, it proves our strong beliefs we have in god, even though I''ll most likely go out and do something later tonight that god said I shouldn't do.

http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post917166

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post917155

brah?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post917166

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post917155

brah?

I figured if everybody else was repeating shit, might as well follow suit. YOU LIKE??

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Virginia Republicans Deny Judgeship to Gay Prosecutor - Yahoo! News


I guess god told them to vote against the gay guy as well. By voting against him, it proves our strong beliefs we have in god, even though I''ll most likely go out and do something later tonight that god said I shouldn't do.

He was an activist judge which he has shown he could not be impartial to gay rights. If it was an activist judge who was against abortion and was voted down this would not even make the news.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Keep thinking that guy. This amendment not only snuffed the rights out for gay people, but also for the rights of man and women civil unions and domestic partnerships. SO, in order to "do right by god", they didn't mind destroying a crap ton of other rights for individuals (women, men, children) and benefits. Can you show me ONE verse in the bible that allows christian's to judge others, or even allows them to decide the fate of "sinners"? One verse? I'll be waiting.

Let me let you in on a secret – well, it's not so much a secret as I had posted it earlier in the thread, but obviously you were so enthralled with throwing out your hate that you completely ignored it, so I'll repost my thoughts. I stated earlier that both people who voted on either side of this amendment were not seeing the forest from the trees. The ones, like you, who are in such a blind rage over championing the gay rights flat out ignored those couples who are living together, raising a family together, but do not believe in marriage. And don't tell me you were including them because your several posts in this thread were all about the gays and nothing about those people. So, you were being just as discriminatory as those who wanted to deny these “rights” to gays. Instead, you wanted to use it as a chance to air your hatred of religious people by making this thread an “us verse them” thread. I went on to state that if the government truly wanted to provide special benefits to couples with children, then using marriage as a criteria was not the way to go. Personally, I feel all couples who are willing to take on the responsibility of raising children should be privy to these “rights” if the government is so insisting of using taxpayer money to fund this program, not just married people, and not just gay people. You, on the other hand, are going about this the wrong way, because you're headstrong. You think blasting the religious community is going to shame them, but all it's doing is making you look like a hater. If you were intelligent enough to take a step back and realize other ways of pushing for “equal rights” that were not so divisive and polarizing, then you'd probably have more support. But honestly, it's people like you that would cause me to cast my vote in the other way, and I didn't even vote in this.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I wasn't coming to that conclusion, nor was I stating a fact. Hence I said, "If you were to ask", but I should have put the word "probably" in there to denote a hunch.

Hence, your context was arranged so as to state a fact. IF you meant it as your opinion, you should have proof read your thoughts before hitting submit.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Wait....so let's go back to christian logic.

Random guy: Didn't the bible say this about your religion?
Christian response: We don't use the Old Testament anymore b/c Jesus died for our sins.

Random guy: Where does it say anything about homosexuality in the bible?
Christian response: It states clearly in the old testament.

Wait....so either you use the old testament...or you don't. You can't pick and ****ing choose guy. You are using verses to back up your silly logic and reasoning, but omitting others by saying they don't apply anymore.

Hhhmmm...OK, I'll dumb it down for you in your words:

Random guy: The bible said it's OK for us to kill gays.
Christian Response: No, the bible stated that God said all who sinned under the Mosaic Law during the Old Testament were sanctioned to death, by GOD. I never said sanctioned to death by MAN. This wasn't limited to homosexuality, but everything considered SIN. I also went on to state that God still showed mercy back in those times by sparing King David's life, yet you flat out ignored that like everything else. The whole thing about Jesus dying for our sins is kind of an important event that ended all of that. You know, the paid our way to salvation thing? You might want to read up on it sometime.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So since the divorce rate is higher in NC, than most states, wouldn't it be ironic and downright hypocritical that most of these people voting in favor of it are doing so because their religion says so? Since gay people can't marry, this would only mean the divorce rate is among the god fearing men/women of the state eh?

It would be hypocritical for those who did not repent of their sin of divorcing their spouse for reasons other than adultery would vote in favor of the Marriage Amendment, yes. However, there are plenty of non-Christians who get married and divorced, so to state that all people who have gotten married and divorced are God fearing men and women would be an illogical statement since all who get married are not of the Christian faith. Am I to assume, then, by your logic, that since you are not Christian, then you are gay?

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think you are taking my quote, and running with it even though it's not there. Let me share you my background. I grew up in a christian home. I went to a christian school. my family is still christian. I have seen how christians think and act all my life. I have never seen a bigger group of hypocrites in my life then the christian church.

Firstly, I sincerely apologize that you had a bad experience with being around a portion of the Christian population that is not living up to Jesus' teachings. I, too, have been around the same population, and I do see where you are coming from. Not all Christians are like that though, and you gotta stop putting everybody in one category. But, like you stating that Christians have no right to judge, neither do you. Usually, if someone comes to some sort of enlightenment in his/her life, along with that enlightenment comes peace; peace of mind, body, and spirit. I don't sense any of that with you. You tend to lash out and be very passionate in your rebuttals; not that passion is wrong at all, but mixing it with anger is like mixing fire and gasoline. Whenever one polarizes themselves far away from any and all people who opposes them, they usually wind up finding themselves very alone when it's said and done.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I suggest you look up what intolerant is. If I were intolerant, I would be asking for legislation to neuter these people so they could not breed their beliefs into this world. If I were intolerant, I would be requesting all religion banned and they muzzled. As it is, I am not. MY problem with these people is that their religion is affecting other people's lives.

I do know what intolerant is. I've witnessed it everywhere I've turned. In a lot of countries around the world, it is illegal to be Christian. Christians have been put to death for their beliefs. Even in this country, the ACLU is working hard to make it illegal to pray in public places, even if all involved wanted to pray. They are suing public institutions and schools for displaying the Ten Commandments, even though it is a historical document. How many televisions shows on TV are about God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity? I don't know of any. How many are about gay lifestyle, or how many are about sex, drugs, and violence? Quite a few! The point I'm making is, the secular population is still the most popular and is the ruling majority. The problem is that those against the Marriage Amendment did not do their job. If you actually think the whole state of North Carolina who were registered to vote came out to vote on this bill, then I have some beach front property in Kansas to sell you. You're beef should be with those who were too lazy to get out and vote against this thing. People in this country have the right to vote for or against as they choose, and you whining and complaining about it isn't going to change that fact.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Let's do the math here.
Gay marriages would impact the church or christian people in no way, shape, form or fashion.

You don't know what impact it would have. Maybe or maybe not. Never say never on anything that has to do with politics and the government. Who's to say that the state wouldn't eventually step in and force ministers to marry a gay couple, or that the ACLU would force them into some expensive lawsuit until they gave in. It could very well happen even though ministers and the church are supposed to be protected by the Freedom of Religion amendment, it still wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Christian bigotry and "beliefs" deny people the right to have benefits, civil unions, and marriages.

And atheistic bigotry deny Christians the right to have formal pray in schools, kill Christians in other countries, deny them the right to assemble in public, etc...at least gay people in the states can still get married, they just can't marry the one they love. Well, news flash, the amendment says nothing about marrying the one you love anyway. The government can care less if that man and woman love each other. Do you really think the government would have gotten involved in all of this IF there wasn't something in it for them? If not, you're extremely gullible.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Who's the "intolerant" ones around here? Looks like the vast majority (62%) of christians.

And where did you get that number and how do you know they are true, professing Christians to begin with? There are many people who use the banner of Christianity (such as the KKK for instance) to push their cultist hate agenda when we all know they're about as Christian as Bill Maher. And honestly, the stuff you're pushing out resembles the stuff I've seen from those hate groups.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

On a side note, I know 4 people right off the top off my head that voted for it and have been divorced(one of them married 3 times). Yet, had the nerve to post on facebook about the "Sanctity of Marriage". /facepalm

OK, 4 people out of how many that voted? And you're willing to place everybody who voted for the Marriage Amendment in the category as bigots, and you know of 4 people? Talk about judgmental. Sure, I'd call those 4 people hypocritical IF they didn't repent of their sins of divorce, but if they DID, then they do have the right to talk about the Sanctity of Marriage. But, if they didn't, then yes, they are hypocrites. I'm not denying people voted for this amendment for the wrong reasons, but to throw the hate toward a certain religious group and lump them and everyone voting in favor of this amendment all in the category as bigots is down right stupid for a lack of better terms. Personally, I don't think the government should have EVER gotten into the marriage business to begin with, because it has no place with that. It also shouldn't have gotten into the business of handing out benefits to married people anyway. It should have stayed as a choice of those insurance companies and other companies who wanted to recognize married people. At least, it would have spurred more competition and maybe companies that were more gay friendly. The way I see it is, all of these social issues are taking away from where the government should be spending its time on, which is economic recovery in hard hit places, and keeping this country safe from terrorist attacks. Instead, people are fighting over social issues in which the government shouldn't have ever been involved with in the first place.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

....I would be asking for legislation to neuter these people so they could not breed their beliefs into this world. If I were intolerant, I would be requesting all religion banned and they muzzled.

Ah, that would be me. NC......

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins
I think you are taking my quote, and running with it even though it's not there. Let me share you my background. I grew up in a christian home. I went to a christian school. my family is still christian. I have seen how christians think and act all my life. I have never seen a bigger group of hypocrites in my life then the christian church.

Sounds like your parents made poor choices when picking and joining a church.

[RedskinRat]

John Boswell - Irish Times

The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible. Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a type of Christian homosexual “marriage” did exist as late as the 18th century. Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved as a concept and as a ritual.

So yet again we see evidence of 'modern' christianity rewriting their tenets to suit the mood. This should prove entertaining for those still engaged in this discussion.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

John Boswell - Irish Times

The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible. Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a type of Christian homosexual “marriage” did exist as late as the 18th century. Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved as a concept and as a ritual.

So yet again we see evidence of 'modern' christianity rewriting their tenets to suit the mood. This should prove entertaining for those still engaged in this discussion.

So you went back to one article in 1998 with no supporting documents presented to say that gay marriage goes back to the 18th century.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you went back to one article in 1998 with no supporting documents presented to say that gay marriage goes back to the 18th century.

Yeah, why not? If you bother to follow the bouncing ball you'll find a whole slew of recently written articles and some books.

Just Google it:

Sex and Punishment - Eric Berkowitz

[mlmpetert]

FD is right, this was probably the worst example you could have used. Can we have the story around Chrsitian gay marriages that susposedly once existed?

Irish English is definitely different but when i see statement like "Contrary to myth" i got to wonder if we are reading advocacy journalism?

But to echo FD this is from 1998 and is from what appears to be Ireland's most socially liberal newspaper. It also requires a subscription to read and the part you posted isn’t even viewable and is perhaps without proper context.

And in addition of being without supporting documents or specific example(s) we don’t even know who the author is! Plus John Boswell had been dead for 4 or 5 years prior to this being written. So this wasnt some ground breaking news or discovery of his work, but rather an editorial trying to push a point.

Come on man. Its great to share narrative by others that offer interesting perspective that most of us probably woldnt otherwise hear, but don’t pass it off like its factual news you found that’s supporting your argument.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Yeah, why not? If you bother to follow the bouncing ball you'll find a whole slew of recently written articles and some books.

Just Google it:

Sex and Punishment - Eric Berkowitz

Maybe you can just link the examples or proof of gay marriage that Bidwell found.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Maybe you can just link the examples or proof of gay marriage that Bidwell found.

I'm just about to leave work and I have the day off so I'll attempt to do just that for the sake of the thread. Plus it'll freak my wife out when she sees me researching gay marriage.