Roster transition in the Shanny era

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You have to forgive Captain Ahab. He's hunting his elusive white whale(shanahan).

It's not fair to say I'm out hunting Mike Shanahan. I would have checked your house first if I was.

[Chico23231]

Tripp dont you think Shanny has done fairly well with the Skins draft? Points taken with the history of Shanny (you stretch a little bit on the Vinny statement), but Im always of the "what have you done for me lately" crowd. Last year especially seems promising. This draft coming up will be the most important, could be his last if his QB choice bombs.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The big problem with Vinny was how he didn't value picks and traded them away like nothing.

THIS was the main issue. I remember a interview where he basically said that a "proven player" is better than the draft picks, which was his reasoning for pissing them all away. He was a ****ing idiot to say the least, and I'm glad he's gone. It's also another reason why we were one of the oldest teams in the league because we had no young talent coming in.

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

He was involved but it's kind of foggy as to how much say he had when it came to shaping the roster.

According to Joe, it was collaboration of him, Vinny and Dan that made the decisions. Snyder on the other hand says it was Joe's show and Vinny reported to Gibbs. I'm more inclined to believe Joe Gibbs on that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Tripp dont you think Shanny has done fairly well with the Skins draft? Points taken with the history of Shanny (you stretch a little bit on the Vinny statement), but Im always of the "what have you done for me lately" crowd. Last year especially seems promising. This draft coming up will be the most important, could be his last if his QB choice bombs.

I think he's done pretty well. I think he sort of screwed himself along the way, but it's pretty remarkable that he's overcome that to even compete with the rest of the league. We've probably outdrafted 12-15 teams over the last two years, which is not insignificant, and impressive considering the circumstances.

His past inconsistencies aside, he's not going to be around long enough to be defined by what he does on draft day. He would have needed to have a heck of a draft in year one (as well as year two) to turn the team around quickly via the draft, like Atlanta did. The McNabb trade pretty much ended those hopes on the day it was made, and not being able to trade down from 4th overall iced that.

At this point, the 2012 draft is still really critical and potentially pivotal for the franchise, but we won't win in 2012 if we don't make smart moves with free agents and trades and have by far the best year yet in terms of shaping the roster. It's the most resources they have had this offseason, but because the Redskins don't even project as an average team right now, it needs to be a heck of an offseason to compete next year. They have to improve pretty much across the board and do it while finding a good quarterback. It would take an Atlanta 2008 or New Orleans 2006 type of offseason to win the division next year.

[CrustyRedskin]

Let the cake bake guys quit trying to pull it out an stick forks,tooth picks and your fingers in it we've seen that too many times

[The Goat]

Per the two articles in Redskins news (to the left) discussing o-line and WR roster depth I think it's pretty hard to argue the new regime has made significant progress in either facet. Younger? Along the o-line yes but still lacking quality depth and a starting RT altogether. At WR it's really neither unless Hankerson turns into a #1 or very, very solid #2.

[MTK]

Funny I thought the OL depth was pretty good considering how well they played down the stretch. But he also made the point some of that was due to scheme. We saw less of the stretch stuff and more inside tosses.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Per the two articles in Redskins news (to the left) discussing o-line and WR roster depth I think it's pretty hard to argue the new regime has made significant progress in either facet. Younger? Along the o-line yes but still lacking quality depth and a starting RT altogether. At WR it's really neither unless Hankerson turns into a #1 or very, very solid #2.

I'd say having a young franchise LT is significant, and that the line is younger as you note. I would say significant progress has been made on the o line, but that it doesn't yet equate to success. Rather they've set themselves up fairly well to draft/add FAs to make it at least a decent unit (we all agree it really sucked when Shanny took over).

WR is a position that we can't get too excited about, we still have one of the weakest units in the nfl. That said, Gafney had a really good year, Hankerson did well in limited time & Niles Paul did as well in the role he played. There was some "progress" but it's not that significant yet. Moss & Armstrong were well below last year's production. This is still a position of great need, 2nd only to QB IMO. However, I give Shanny his props for drafting Hankerson & Paul, both could play big roles next year & after.

[SBXVII]

This was a nice write up. It would be pretty cool to pick up maybe 2 of the WR's, the left Guard, and Flynn.

Who will the Redskins target in free agency? - Riggo's Rag - A Washington Redskins Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.

Then I would still try for RGIII with moving up, if no one will trade then see if RGIII falls to #6 (which I doubt happens), If RGIII is gone then I'd look to trade back for more picks and pick up the Rookie QB or WR late in round 1. Round 2 I would take whatever I did not pick in round 1 between WR and QB. Then I start picking OL, FS, CB and I don't know why people are hung up on it but LB.

Somewhere in all this I'd keep trying to trade back for more picks like they did last year.

[SkinItup]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

At this point, the 2012 draft is still really critical and potentially pivotal for the franchise, but we won't win in 2012 if we don't make smart moves with free agents and trades and have by far the best year yet in terms of shaping the roster. It's the most resources they have had this offseason, but because the Redskins don't even project as an average team right now, it needs to be a heck of an offseason to compete next year. They have to improve pretty much across the board and do it while finding a good quarterback. It would take an Atlanta 2008 or New Orleans 2006 type of offseason to win the division next year.

Shanny seems to have gotten better at drafts over the years and last year his FA signings were all reasonably priced guys who did contribute, at least if they could stay on the field in a healthy fashion. And it got away from the Vinny days of things like Hanyesworth.

I agree it will take a good offseason to really compete but with how he has been building the team I doubt he even tries to really compete next year. If he goes 8-8 next year he can justify his statements of being on the right path and, like we likely will, have a rookie QB he has an easy scapegoat of the growing pains of a young QB if our record is around the same as this year.

2012 offseason is really about building a roster to compete in 2013 and onward.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Funny I thought the OL depth was pretty good considering how well they played down the stretch. But he also made the point some of that was due to scheme. We saw less of the stretch stuff and more inside tosses.

You thought they were better?

I agree that the Redskins got a lot more multiple in the run game, started using trick plays to keep defenses honest, got away from making the naked bootleg a staple of the passing game, and even threw in small wrinkles off of established staple plays (the short toss off the zone game). And you would be surprised at how our season-long numbers for the rushing game came out, especially since we treated the running game as "the annoying thing that offenses sometimes do" for about ten games.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SkinItup

Shanny seems to have gotten better at drafts over the years and last year his FA signings were all reasonably priced guys who did contribute, at least if they could stay on the field in a healthy fashion. And it got away from the Vinny days of things like Hanyesworth.

Ultimately, the 2011 offseason was a lot of contract and cap dollars spent, and just not that much production for the effort.

The good news is that the Redskins didn't commit a lot of dead money like they have in the past to guys like Archuleta and Lloyd. The Bowen, Cofield, and Chester contracts aren't exactly dead in the water. They could all be improved players in 2012, which is one important element of free agent signings. Even the Atogwe contract isn't yet dead money.

Still, they all MUST improve to justify the deals they were given. 2012 is a make or break year for guys like Chester and Bowen, and it's an important year for Cofield as well.

I think the jury is still out on many of the free agents we brought in last offseason, but there's a chance they could look like very bad moves in a year. They haven't been discussed in this thread because none of them (except maybe Atogwe) would rank among the top 10 moves that haven't worked out re: Shanahan. But that doesn't mean everything is great or that the roster is in great shakes.

I agree it will take a good offseason to really compete but with how he has been building the team I doubt he even tries to really compete next year. If he goes 8-8 next year he can justify his statements of being on the right path and, like we likely will, have a rookie QB he has an easy scapegoat of the growing pains of a young QB if our record is around the same as this year.

2012 offseason is really about building a roster to compete in 2013 and onward.

8-8 probably isn't good enough on it's own merits, but style points count. If they have a year where the offense has a sensational season under Kyle Shanahan and a new QB puts up great numbers, Shanahan is probably safe for 2013 so long as he's willing to make gruesome cuts to his staff in the weak areas responsible for the losing.

If it's more of the same though, he's done.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You thought they were better?

I agree that the Redskins got a lot more multiple in the run game, started using trick plays to keep defenses honest, got away from making the naked bootleg a staple of the passing game, and even threw in small wrinkles off of established staple plays (the short toss off the zone game). And you would be surprised at how our season-long numbers for the rushing game came out, especially since we treated the running game as "the annoying thing that offenses sometimes do" for about ten games.

I though the depth was better than last year, yes

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I though the depth was better than last year, yes

*remembers who was depth last year*

Yeah, that's probably right.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

8-8 probably isn't good enough on it's own merits, but style points count. If they have a year where the offense has a sensational season under Kyle Shanahan and a new QB puts up great numbers, Shanahan is probably safe for 2013 so long as he's willing to make gruesome cuts to his staff in the weak areas responsible for the losing.

If it's more of the same though, he's done.

He's good through 2014, no questions. He's gone on the record too many times saying 'I told Dan Snyder if you aren't going to give me 5 years to turn this around then don't hire me' for Snyder to fire him after 3 years. What that does is take the onus off of him and makes Snyder look like he's gone back on his words and like the quick triggered impulsive owner that everyone thinks he is. That being said, he won't go into the final year of his contract as a lame duck. He will either get an extension or resign after 4 years.