JC is not what I thought.

[joethiesmanfan]

He hates Campbell he wants Colt we know the story. Colt is another Jeff Garcia he is too little and too slow.

[CRedskinsRule]

I really have gone from being a Campbell supporter in the OTA's and last year to being on the fence. So for my 2cents:

.01 -- Please stop saying 7 new systems in 8 years. If anyone doesn't know this fact by now, then what can they really bring to this discussion.

.02 -- Zorn has committed to JC, much like Gibbs committed to Theismann before they went 0-5, if Zorn doesn't give JC the chance to succeed, at the possible cost of his first season, then he WILL lose the team.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So it would be totally unreasonable to expect any competance from Jason Campbell for another two years?

No, but it's totally unreasonable to expect him to be quick, efficient and fully comfortable in the system in 6 weeks.

If he consistently improves all season, the wins will come. If he DOES take 2 years to get to a Pro Bowl level then we're winning a lot. I'll take that long term prospect of winning over a pretty performance one night.

[Paintrain]

One more thought on Campbell, for his first 4 years he was taught by Gibbs to be cautious, cautious, cautious and don't take chances to turn the ball over. What we've heard from Zorn is that JC has to trust himself and cut the ball loose. He's got to overcome 4 years of one way of thinking in 6 months. It's going to take time to not only get comfortable in the WCO but also take time trusting himself to take the chances that he was coached against taking before.

After the 4th down checkdown to Betts at the end of the game, you can see Zorn telling him 'I don't care, you have to throw it.' On the replay you can see that he was trying to get it to Randle-El who was somewhat covered but was beyond the first down sticks. Basically he's got to give his WR a chance to make a play in that situation, but his 'instincts' have been taught for him not to throw that ball. One thing about WCO QB, they have good stats, but also can have some high INT numbers. He's got to get over the fear of the turnover with the expectation that more good will come than harm.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

One more thought on Campbell, for his first 4 years he was taught by Gibbs to be cautious, cautious, cautious and don't take chances to turn the ball over. What we've heard from Zorn is that JC has to trust himself and cut the ball loose. He's got to overcome 4 years of one way of thinking in 6 months. It's going to take time to not only get comfortable in the WCO but also take time trusting himself to take the chances that he was coached against taking before.

After the 4th down checkdown to Betts at the end of the game, you can see Zorn telling him 'I don't care, you have to throw it.' On the replay you can see that he was trying to get it to Randle-El who was somewhat covered but was beyond the first down sticks. Basically he's got to give his WR a chance to make a play in that situation, but his 'instincts' have been taught for him not to throw that ball. One thing about WCO QB, they have good stats, but also can have some high INT numbers. He's got to get over the fear of the turnover with the expectation that more good will come than harm.

I think that's a good point and Madden touched on it as well. Along with all the different offenses he's worked in, along with those offenses comes different philosophies and ways of doing things. It's going to take some time for JC to unlearn the way he's been doing things the last couple of years and buy in to what Zorn wants him to do.

[doughtydoubter]

i just dont think he had the opportunity from the blocking schemes or from the wideouts to succeed in any facet. Perhaps he could have chucked it up and given it on his WRs but i dont blame him for not trusting them to make those catches...they are all midgets...

[JoeRedskin]

One game and I am already tired of the haters.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

One game and I am already tired of the haters.

It doesn't take long for the sky to fall around here. Hell it was already on it's way down in the preseason. The doom and gloomers are touching themselves today.

[irish]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

So, with JC out from behind center, this team is a Super Bowl contender?

With or without JC under center this team is not a SB contender.

Its not all JC's fault. He has an old slow o line that doesnt give him the time he needs. He also has midget receivers and that makes it tough. JC is just one part of a fundamentally flawed team.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

With or without JC under center this team is not a SB contender.

Its not all JC's fault. He has an old slow o line that doesnt give him the time he needs. He also has midget receivers and that makes it tough. JC is just one part of a fundamentally flawed team.

Good post, irish, but I'm not sure I'd use the term fundamentally flawed.

If there is a fundamentally flawed unit on the team, it's the offensive line. They weren't good in pass pro last season and probably won't be any better this season. But Campbell is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode onto the scene, and the defense is almost as good as it was last year.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think that's a good point and Madden touched on it as well. Along with all the different offenses he's worked in, along with those offenses comes different philosophies and ways of doing things. It's going to take some time for JC to unlearn the way he's been doing things the last couple of years and buy in to what Zorn wants him to do.

If this is the case, I think Zorn should take some blame for doing this to him. Zorn should be helping to build on what Gibbs/Lazor/Saunders were teaching, not tearing Campbell down to rebuild him again.

If it's the latter, it's much ado about nothing, and will only slow down his progression a bit before he reaches his prime.

[doughtydoubter]

It doesn't take long for the sky to fall around here. Hell it was already on it's way down in the preseason. The doom and gloomers are touching themselves

I think people are just freaked right now. They just wanted to see SOMETHING productive. New coach or not, we were a team on the cusp of turning that final corner. I think the transition from gibbs, to zorn...from a man we call a legend, to another with no experience outside of qb whatsoever is going to be a tough one that most people are going to have "sky is falling" attitude.
We just want some hope that this is the right move, the right decision, that he is a man the players will go to war for..and lay it on the line for. We dont need a coach that is "trying to figure out" his offense on us as his trial run...

[HogHeaven]

Originally Posted by irish

With or without JC under center this team is not a SB contender.

Its not all JC's fault. He has an old slow o line that doesnt give him the time he needs. He also has midget receivers and that makes it tough. JC is just one part of a fundamentally flawed team.

All the more reason to know the offense and get rid of the ball. The first play of the damn game should've been an incomplete pass out of bounds. Chuck it, don't hold it for a sack.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

One more thought on Campbell, for his first 4 years he was taught by Gibbs to be cautious, cautious, cautious and don't take chances to turn the ball over. What we've heard from Zorn is that JC has to trust himself and cut the ball loose. He's got to overcome 4 years of one way of thinking in 6 months. It's going to take time to not only get comfortable in the WCO but also take time trusting himself to take the chances that he was coached against taking before.

After the 4th down checkdown to Betts at the end of the game, you can see Zorn telling him 'I don't care, you have to throw it.' On the replay you can see that he was trying to get it to Randle-El who was somewhat covered but was beyond the first down sticks. Basically he's got to give his WR a chance to make a play in that situation, but his 'instincts' have been taught for him not to throw that ball. One thing about WCO QB, they have good stats, but also can have some high INT numbers. He's got to get over the fear of the turnover with the expectation that more good will come than harm.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. By that I mean that I don't think Campbell has to start throwing caution to the wind now to please Zorn. I'm sure Zorn isn't looking for a wholesale INT increase.

On 4th and 13, JC did what he could. Ultimately, the best chance to get the first down was to get the ball to Betts in space and ask him to break two tackles. There's a reason that 4th and 13 is a very low rate of conversion.

I'll buy the fearing the turnover argument (although I would argue that this is a good thing to have in the back of your mind), but I won't buy that the WCO has a higher INT rate than other systems. The traditional WCO is QB friendly: higher completion percentages, higher touchdown rate, lower intercepton rate -- all at the expense of the backs and receivers ability to make plays after the catch.

But then again, no one ever said we were going to a traditional WCO from Zorn

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

To put this loss on Campbell proves that you have no actual knowledge about football and are simply echoing the morons that always blame or praise the QB for the team's fortunes.

Agreed, 100%. Campbell looked hesitant and slow last night, but in my mind, that probably has a lot to do with the new offense. I don't understand the need to write him off after one effing game. When he had time, he completed passes. He threw a beautiful ball that hit the "hard working" James Thrash in the hands and body, but he managed to drop a sure touchdown. If that pass is completed, the outlook of the game changes and I imagine this asinine, knee jerk reaction of a thread wouldn't exist, or at least would be much smaller.