All things Middle East related

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by That Guy

that's pretty random. we have lots of people in the US that think hilter is a role model, so you might as well throw USA, wtf? in there too.

It highlights a pervasive attitude in that region, but if you have an example of a major shopping mall using an image of Hitler I'd be interested to see it.

[Chico23231]

Exclusive: How my brother tried to kill me in 'honor attack' - CNN.com

This is my biggest problem with the middle east and their culture; there treatment of women. It amazes me how they fail to realize how strong of a culture and how strong their countries they could be if they empowered women. Cant believe in modern times how oppressive you could be to your own daughter, sister, mother, etc. Its disturbing.

[RedskinRat]

Chico, that's old news.

Men need to take responsibility for their actions, not treat women like they're the cause of all that's wrong.

Shout out to the women of Topless Jihad and Pakistani Atheists. Google it and support both, please.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Chico, that's old news.

Men need to take responsibility for their actions, not treat women like they're the cause of all that's wrong.

Shout out to the women of Topless Jihad and Pakistani Atheists. Google it and support both, please.

How about the people aka the community should not force 12 year old girls to marry 60 year old men

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

How about the people aka the community should not force 12 year old girls to marry 60 year old men

When it's an established tradition based on the example of 'The Perfect Man' you'll have some stiff opposition in curtailing it.

[Chico23231]

Yeah, well obviously they need a culture shift. Please excuse me if I dont respect it. Change is natural

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.

[Chico23231]

Yeah violence is a small part of the oppression of women rights in the middle east.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.

Really? Just an opinion, BHA, or do you have anything to substantiate that?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Its a shocking story, but i would say theres just as much - if not more - violence against women in this country.

These "honor killings" are deplorable, and the vast majority of commnities in the middle east outlaw them. They beleive violence against women is just as bad as we do here. But i'd argue the sick b@stards in this country who beat/rape/kill girls and women here, just because it gets them off, are even worse.

Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).

It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better."

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).

It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better."

Word up Joe. At least there are laws to protect women against violence here. Over there its either no law or its so weak its left up to interpretation to whoever is enforcing it.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Really? Just an opinion, BHA, or do you have anything to substantiate that?

Just used my brain. The article stated:

The U.N. claims that 4,000 cases of violence against women and girls were reported to the Afghan Ministry of Women between 2010 and 2012.

thats about 1,333 cases of violence against women and girls reported per year. Doesnt that seem shockingly small to you? even on a purely annectodal level, when you think about similar crimes here?

However, since you wanted some substaiting evidence, about 2.3MM people are raped or assaulted by their current or former partner each year. 3-4MM women are beaten or assaulted by their husbands, male lovers, or exboyfriends.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...estic_violence

Now, I would imagine there would be some overlap between those two statistics, so lets go on the low end and say that equates to about 4MM cases of violent domestic abuse against women in the US per year.

you have 4,000,000 violent assaults against women per year in the US compared to 1,333 reported cases in Afghanistan. Now, before you the data is skewed due to the US having a much larger population, consider that the US has about 300 million people and Afghanistan has about 30 million (10 times more). So even if you multiplied the Afghan statistics by 10 to correlate the numbers, you'd have 13,333 attacks in Afghanistan to 4,000,000 in the US.

Granted, women are more likely to report crime here than in some of the more "backwater" areas of Afghanistan, but you cant argue with the numbers.

Also, interesting reading is this this UN report on violence against women:

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demograph...st%20women.pdf

The first statement in the report is that violence against women is universal. Neither the US or Afghanistan is on one of the charts shown, but surprisingly, Australia was the 4th most violent country surveyed, with over 50% of women experiencing physical violence in their lives.


Ultimately, my point is this: People get so outraged at these crimes against women in these other countries, but they dont share the same outrage when it happens here. In my opinion, its partly racism. "Its the middle east. Theyre muslim, so theyre so much worse over there." Bull crap. The truth of the matter is, violence against women is so common here (and in pretty much every other country in the "western" world) that we're immune to it. But people are only outraged when we see our "enemies" doing the same things. Its hypocritical and its shameful.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Violence against women - whether "honor killings" or "just because it gets you off" is deplorable. I find it hard to believe that the numbers are comprable but don't know the comparable stats. Even if comprable, however, the fact that women are generally treated as property subject to the law as opposed to people with rights under the law is endemic to many countries in the ME and is enforced by their courts - both civil and religious (in some cases, one and the same).
It's night and day. I seriously doubt any well-adjusted Western woman, regardless of class, thinks to herself "Gee, I wish I lived in Pakistan, India or
Afghanistan - life would be soooo much better."

Theyre not comparable. They are worse here. Although its beyond dispute that women have more "rights" here from a legal perspective, the majority of eastern and middle eastern countrys consider violence against women and children to be criminal. Even if Afghanistan, its illegal pretty much everywhere. Its just certain tribal areas that adhere to extremist religous law where this sort of thing is tolerated... yet, ignorant americans act like the whole middle east is represented by those small, isolated areas.

The fact remains that violence against women is universal problem. No matter what the country, some men mistreat women becuase they're @ssholes. I would imagine most abusers "justifiy" their actions to themselves for varoius reasons. The only difference in the situation described in the CNN article is that the @ssholes feel they are justified because of their religious laws.

[Chico23231]

I think we do get outraged here, but the point is, its culturely acceptable in the Middle East. Its clearly not here.

But like I said before, violence against women is actually a small part of equality rights of women over there. Violence is the end result, kinda like my article. There was an honor attempted killing only because the woman had no choice or say in the matter of who she could be with.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Theyre not comparable. They are worse here. Although its beyond dispute that women have more "rights" here from a legal perspective, the majority of eastern and middle eastern countrys consider violence against women and children to be criminal. Even if Afghanistan, its illegal pretty much everywhere. Its just certain tribal areas that adhere to extremist religous law where this sort of thing is tolerated... yet, ignorant americans act like the whole middle east is represented by those small, isolated areas. The fact remains that violence against women is universal problem. No matter what the country, some men mistreat women becuase they're @ssholes. I would imagine most abusers "justifiy" their actions to themselves for varoius reasons. The only difference in the situation described in the CNN article is that the @ssholes feel they are justified because of their religious laws.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong