Potential Government Shut Down

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

First I should say that I am no lover of the American military. I think we are an overly warlike people who only harm ourselves with our wildly inflated military budget. That said, such is not the fault of those who serve in the military. It is a large-scale social and psychological issue.

Soldiers are not like other government workers. They sacrifice their safety and peace of mind for a paycheck which often is not large.

If we don't pay them, then they sacrifice their safety for nothing. That is not fair. And this issue of fairness does not apply to other government workers like me who are not in harm's way.

I'm not talking about faults here. The point is they are part of the government and as such one can not discriminate on their behalf while screwing other government workers. It's a matter of equal protection for all government workers. Somehow this concept is lost or purposefully neglected.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I thought so.
I am quite sure you are worth your handsome salary…AND more. I would like to point that there are those that protect your right to earn it, in far away lands. People who protect your freedom and your safety in general. They do so everyday with their blood and sometimes their lives. To generalize their position as equivalent with that of the postal worker or Federal office worker seems somewhat disrespectful and thankless.
HTTR
No respect intended to the Postman or office people as well!

Please read more carefully...the inability to get paid and pay your bills is equal regardless who you believe to be performing a more important work.

One of the problems with North Korea is that the military dictatorships gets to eat before the people. That is to say they are more important than the general public.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'm not talking about faults here. The point is they are part of the government and as such one can not discriminate on their behalf while screwing other government workers. It's a matter of equal protection for all government workers. Somehow this concept is lost or purposefully neglected.

I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

I am a government worker with a non-military job. I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages, but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.

[firstdown]

So with all that the best they could do was to cut 37 billion. I know thats allot of money but not when you compare it to the size of their budget. Its like us cutting a few dollars off our budget. We have a bunch of chicken shits running this country who's only concern is re election. so to them the only thing I have to say is.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

I am a government worker with a non-military job. I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages, but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.

This. Very good post.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I perfectly understand your equal protection argument. You may apply "equal protection" when government workers take equal personal risk on behalf of those who are served. On this basis I would find it immoral if the government had shut down, depriving government workers of wages, while members of Congress continued to draw paychecks.

But military and nonmilitary workers do not take equal risks. Risks have to be balanced with rewards. Therefore the equal protection argument is nullified. Besides, there is an issue of compassion. Military families already have to worry about whether Daddy will come home; to deprive them of their wages in such a situation is just downright mean-spirited.

I am a government worker with a non-military job. I would have no problem if the government shut down, depriving me of wages, but the military still got paid. I don't take the risks that others do so I shouldn't be entitled to the same rewards.

You will be alright I'm sure, I wonder if the secretaries and janitors will be. There are a lot of low level government employees who will be hurting and I'm not interested in depriving them of a paycheck while paying military personal. The financial troubles of this country is partly due to the isolation of the military from any cuts and babying them at every turn in budgetary matters while throwing other government employees under the bus. Fck that!

[saden1]

Great work by Obama et al. They didn't blink and the republicans folded...now everyone is going to get paid for one more week. Until next Friday...let's hope republicans are more successful in shutting down the government.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by saden1

You will be alright I'm sure, I wonder if the secretaries and janitors will be. There are a lot of low level government employees who will be hurting and I'm not interested in depriving them of a paycheck while paying military personal. The financial troubles of this country is partly due to the isolation of the military from any cuts and babying them at every turn in budgetary matters while throwing other government employees under the bus. Fck that!

1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.

LOOL, you are the one who said you wouldn't have a problem with depriving you of wages. Do read your posts or I'm I supposed to read a certain way?

Absolutely it does bring about change. The next time there is a threat of a shutdown the president will have more leverage. Kudos to obama for setting a precedence.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

1) Actually you have no idea what my financial situation is. Further, the secretaries and janitors which you mention are my colleagues and friends, so I'm quite sure that I know their lives better than you do. Making an argument based on personal finances of which you are ignorant is fallacious.

2) Your complaint about isolating the military from other cuts is a good one. As I said above, I advocate a drastic reduction in our military budget. But that is a systemic problem which requires changes in large-scale planning and financial infrastructure. Not paying military families in the short term, as you have advocated, does nothing to bring about this overall, long-term planning and infrastructure change.

Furthermore you have no idea who I known and don't know and whether I know secretaries/janitors and thier financial situation. So for you assume I don't know anything while accusing me of assuming things is absurd.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by saden1

LOOL, you are the one who said you wouldn't have a problem with depriving you of wages. Do read your posts or I'm I supposed to read a certain way?

Absolutely it does bring about change. The next time there is a threat of a shutdown the president will have more leverage. Kudos to obama for setting a precedence.

1) Yes, I said that I would not have a problem with being deprived of wages while military families get paid. Nothing that I said above contradicted that. You still have no idea how much hardship that would or would not bring to me.

But you failed to understand my point so let me put things differently: I am a government worker. You are not. So don't lecture me on the life of a government worker. Shall I lecture you on what it is like to live in Seattle?

2) No, a short-term solution does not bring about long-term structural change. Only long-term solutions do. This point is not difficult to grasp.

It is not as hard to admit that you are wrong as you make it out to be.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

It is not as hard to admit that you are wrong as you make it out to be.

Well done Lotus. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening. LOL

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

Great work by Obama et al. They didn't blink and the republicans folded...now everyone is going to get paid for one more week. Until next Friday...let's hope republicans are more successful in shutting down the government.

Was it not Boehner who closed the deal? Aren't the $38.5B in cuts more than what was expected? Not sure I'd be congratulatiing Obama for this one. Personally I'm happy both sides were able to work together.

John Boehner closes the deal to avoid government shutdown - John Bresnahan and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

[BuckSkin]

Wow! Going through this banter going back and forth I want to point out that the Gentleman from Seattle is the personification of an oxy-moron. An Elitist-Socialist. Never thought I'd witness that.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

1) Yes, I said that I would not have a problem with being deprived of wages while military families get paid. Nothing that I said above contradicted that. You still have no idea how much hardship that would or would not bring to me.

But you failed to understand my point so let me put things differently: I am a government worker. You are not. So don't lecture me on the life of a government worker. Shall I lecture you on what it is like to live in Seattle?

2) No, a short-term solution does not bring about long-term structural change. Only long-term solutions do. This point is not difficult to grasp.

It is not as hard to admit that you are wrong as you make it out to be.

I don't know what hardship is and I can't possibly know what it is like to be a low level government employee? That's all you got? You have no clue what you are talking about so there is no reason to admit I am wrong.

So weak, so rubbish of a post.