Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Is the idea to be better in 2010 or better in 2010, 2011, 2012, etc? Can Sam Bradford, for example, be a better QB in 2010 than Campbell? Maybe not. But will he be a better than one than him two-three years from now? That's the question we really need to answer

But will the Jason Campbell we have right now be better in two-three years from now?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But will the Jason Campbell we have right now be better in two-three years from now?

I'm not sure he will be. I think he's sort of plateaued and what you see is what you get. I really don't have a problem with committing to him. I do have a problem with not making a decision one way or the other heading into his 6th NFL season.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure he will be. I think he's sort of plateaued and what you see is what you get. I really don't have a problem with committing to him. I do have a problem with not making a decision one way or the other heading into his 6th NFL season.

Good post.. I still really believe that we should give Campbell another chance, he deserves it, after all stuff Redskins FO made him to go through.. I didn't expect to see Campbell throwing 350's yesterday, beside the interception play, he played great.. Like I said couple days ago, Campbell is developing rapport with Thomas and Davis - in other words, he's starting to trust them.. Keep the offense intact, just until we have everything else positioned; if the offense doesn't get better by then, then we can change find a replacement for Campbell (That won't be the situation, but big IF)..

I really believe that's the way to keep Redskins in the hunt for playoffs next year..

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GridIron26

Good post.. I still really believe that we should give Campbell another chance, he deserves it, after all stuff Redskins FO made him to go through.. I didn't expect to see Campbell throwing 350's yesterday, beside the interception play, he played great.. Like I said couple days ago, Campbell is developing rapport with Thomas and Davis - in other words, he's starting to trust them.. Keep the offense intact, just until we have everything else positioned; if the offense doesn't get better by then, then we can change find a replacement for Campbell (That won't be the situation, but big IF)..

I really believe that's the way to keep Redskins in the hunt for playoffs next year..

This really isn't much of an "I owe you" type league though. If you can find a better solution you go with it.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

.....Blow this shit up!

Your boy Marty doesn't agree with blowing things up. And he even thinks Zorn should stay.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Your boy Marty doesn't agree with blowing things up. And he even thinks Zorn should stay.

What the hell do I know ...Marty's an idiot.

Just kidding. Well any coach in his right mind would be an idiot to say cut ties with any other HC in public. The only ones not affraid are the ones happy to be in the booth on some tv station. I'll agree that any HC should be given 3-4 yrs to get his system across to the players, however there must be some sign of improvement. Zorn came in and lit it up the first 8 games then when other teams figured out what he was doing he bombed. The team comes back healthy and one would think if it was all about injuries they would have started lighting it up again cause the OL was healthy. Instead they start out bad, injuries start picking up again, Zorn shows no improvement to his system or playcalls. The team goes out and brings in a "consultant" and basically the "consultant" takes over the job.

If you want to keep anyone from this coaching staff I would keep Sherm Lewis. He seems to have fixed or straightened out what the original coaching staff could not....how to put points on the board. If Zorn was a decent HC he should have found a way to figure this out. Gibbs did in his first tenure. He tanked the first 5 games, takes a look at his system and the players he has and made adjustments. They went what 8-8. Then the following season had a better record. That's showing improvement.

Ya want to keep the WCO to keep some form of continuity fine. You want to bring in a new HC, fine. You want to sweet talk the new HC into possibly keeping Lewis as OC or somewhere on the team....president? fine. In my oppinion the team has endured 15 yrs of "hey we are not that far off, we are only one player away from a SB." I'm ready, with the advent of no CBA, to finally blow this up and "Rebuild". Personally I like JC. I like his personality. I do have issues with his playing though but if the team decided to retain him for another year it most likely would be the best scenario at this point. But if we are blowing it up we might as well start off with a new QB as well and not throw JC into yet another change in terminology and scheme. If people are stating JC's growth has been stunted due to all the changes another change will not help him.

I think we need him one more yr though cause Collins needs to go. Colt is unproven and we have no one else worth their weight in gold. I did think Chase Daniels had a lot of up side. Apparently so do the Saints. I just wish we could get him back and let a new HC and staff work with these guys. Perhaps even JC if he's retained.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Your boy Marty doesn't agree with blowing things up. And he even thinks Zorn should stay.

I wonder if that's because he believes that Zorn might have it.. or if he knows what being prematurely ushered out here is like.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I wonder if that's because he believes that Zorn might have it.. or if he knows what being prematurely ushered out here is like.

I think Marty knows the value of continuity and he knows you can't build a consistent winner by changing your master plan every 2-3 years.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think Marty knows the value of continuity and he knows you can't build a consistent winner by changing your master plan every 2-3 years.

I can get with that. Worse coaches have lasted longer elsewhere I suppose.

[SmootSmack]

No coach is going to suggest another team fire its current coach. That's plain disrespectful

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

No coach is going to suggest another team fire its current coach. That's plain disrespectful

True, but his point was more about building continuity and taking what we do well and building on that. He made it pretty clear he doesn't think the Skins need to blow things up and start over.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

True, but his point was more about building continuity and taking what we do well and building on that. He made it pretty clear he doesn't think the Skins need to blow things up and start over.

From a small perspective that correct. Looking at the big picture....

If next year is a no cap year then we would be stupid to not blow it up. Get rid of all the old players and their contracts. Bring in youth. Start building around the draft and stop trading out picks for a has been. Start actually developing players we draft (as long as they get good scouts to pick good players). Stop constantly picking BPA unless we have no drastic needs at any one position, then pick BPA.

Get rid of VC. Even if DS did all I said above and said he was retaining Zorn and Co. though ...I would almost except if as long as he got rid of VC and the Scouts. If he did this I would almost say Ok I'm fine with this for right now for continuity sake. Bring in a true GM and hopefully better talent scouts.

Na, never mind, blow it up. I hope that if everything changes but DS keeps VC people chant, and chant, and chant, and chant...."VC must go" at every game.

[mike340]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure he will be. I think he's sort of plateaued and what you see is what you get. I really don't have a problem with committing to him. I do have a problem with not making a decision one way or the other heading into his 6th NFL season.

I disagree. I've seen more improvement in Campbell in the last 4 games (since Zorn had more time to work with him) than in the prior 2 years before that. He completed multiple touch passes in a single game for the first time ever, he was hitting down-field receivers in something other than a crossing route, and he was making decisions more quickly.

As far as Vinny, it looks like the draft choices from the last 2 years are starting to work out. We always talk about building for the future. If the inside plan was: this year is a year which we just want to survive, and the next we build the offensive line, then it's not too bad. While our offensive line is a disaster, the defensive line has been fixed (one of the top priorities) and the receiver corps is in the best shape in years. The defensive secondary is in very good shape considering the loss of (and need to "replace") Sean Taylor unexpectedly. (The Celtics were terrible for years after they lost Bias.) The Jason Taylor attempt was unfortunate, but we were in a very bad bind at that point as injuries had reduced our defensive line to a shambles. I think we have improved greatly since the days when we were giving draft picks for Duckett and obtained Archuleta, etc. As far as QB goes, it looks like things are starting to work out. Four weeks ago I wanted to sit Campbell and try Collins to see how much was the line and how much was the QB. His play since then has improved to a remarkable degree. We now need him to get his mojo back at the end of a game.

Here is what I am looking for:
I want to see them start putting teams away when they can. (They don't have many easy games left.) When they actually won by 10 against Denver I was amazed. It probably lost a lot of money for the cardiologists in Washington. It seemed to me that they also had it right against the Saints. Every time the Saints would score to get it to a one-score game, they came right back and scored again to make it a two-score game. (Except for Suisham.) In the past it's always been scoring from behind. So if they stop playing "down to" the level of the opposition, that will be the first time we have seen that in years. I remember the year when Mara died, we only lost 1 regular season game by more than 1 TD, but we had only 1 win by more than a TD until Collins came in.

If they can put other teams away and they play well I think we should hang on to Zorn et al. If Vinny's plan was to survive this year and fix the OL next year, then I'm OK with keeping him. I am saying that with the proviso that that was the plan before this football season began.

We will see what the next few weeks bring. Hopefully some good football and healthy young players showing that they have to stuff to succeed.

Dan Snyder also has a reputation for getting rid of coaches too quickly. But it didn't start that way. He kept Norv Turner way too long. So maybe he's starting to get it.

Lastly, several weeks ago most people were saying all sorts of horrible things about the Bingo caller and how Zorn should feel about it. (And it's a total fail that Sherm doesn't talk to Campbell during the week.) The official report was that Zorn had too much on his plate and this was devised to solve that problem. Until they got these guys, Zorn probably had more on his plate than any other head coach, and was still learning the job. Maybe we have to consider that they meant what they said. I'm a scientist. I don't give a damn (in fact I like it) if a solution to a problem is different from what's normally done, but most people don't appreciate that.

For the first half of the year I didn't make my family watch the Redskins. (My wife is from Mexico, and my kids are 9,7,3, and 1.) But now they're more interested, and my wife was yelling during an exciting part of a game recently (a first.)

As an aside, I find it amusing that we have only gone up one place in the FoxSports power ranking in the last 4 games. (That was after we beat Denver.) First they dropped the Broncos to avoid raising us, then they dropped the Eagles for the same reason, then after a while they didn't need to drop anybody, they just left us where we were.

As a last aside, please root for Army this weekend, since my cousin's kid is their (freshman!) starting QB. Thanks!

[CRedskinsRule]

^^ very well thought out post

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by mike340

Dan Snyder also has a reputation for getting rid of coaches too quickly. But it didn't start that way. He kept Norv Turner way too long. So maybe he's starting to get it.

Snyder didn't keep Norv around too long. Not quite two years; I guess that you're referring to the years that Norv was here before Snyder's ownership too?