Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Okay. Answer this question honestly.

Who would you rather have?

Devin Hester or Rock?
Josh Cribbs or Rock?

Like I said stats are important but they aren't EVERYTHING

As far as the 0 td comment. I think he has been in the league for 7 goingon 8 yrs. So he should havemore than 1 return for a TD..

Look at the versatility of the players on this list. Also look at their ages.

Most play a prominent role on defense or offense. Rock doesn't

THIS WAS NEVER, EVER THE QUESTION.

You can't have Cribbs or Hester to replace him. You're making a half-wit argument.

If you cut Rock to get a 3rd string RB on the roster who, if he isn't better, at least is younger, then Rock's contribution get replaced by people who probably aren't very good at them. Hey, maybe you get lucky and find another special teams demon in Devin Thomas. But you don't count on it, certainly, and you expect to take a hit on special teams.

Which is justifiable, if you are getting a LOT better on offense. But this is not what is happening here.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Okay. Answer this question honestly.

Who would you rather have?

Devin Hester or Rock?
Josh Cribbs or Rock?

Like I said stats are important but they aren't EVERYTHING

As far as the 0 td comment. I think he has been in the league for 7 goingon 8 yrs. So he should havemore than 1 return for a TD..

Look at the versatility of the players on this list. Also look at their ages.

Most play a prominent role on defense or offense. Rock doesn't

This is quite a nice false dilemna. If it were Madden or Fantasy, I personally would want Sproles. BUT this is the NFL, real contracts, real people. We have 3 or 4 people to consider, none of whom are a Hester, Cribbs, or Sproles. Rock is a proven top 6 returner for the past 3 years. That is a good thing. I would like to see DT tonight, see what he can do, and maybe we do let Rock go. But lets not kid ourselves and think Mason, or Aldridge, or Dorsey are equal to Hester/Cribbs/Sproles.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

This is quite a nice false dilemna. If it were Madden or Fantasy, I personally would want Sproles. BUT this is the NFL, real contracts, real people. We have 3 or 4 people to consider, none of whom are a Hester, Cribbs, or Sproles. Rock is a proven top 6 returner for the past 3 years. That is a good thing. I would like to see DT tonight, see what he can do, and maybe we do let Rock go. But lets not kid ourselves and think Mason, or Aldridge, or Dorsey are equal to Hester/Cribbs/Sproles.

Who the hell said that?

the statement I made was about STATS. I am saying that jsut because a player has formidable stats doesn't mean he is the best player. That's why I used Cribbs and Hester as an example. Mason, Aldridge or Dorsey are no where in the league as those guys. But one thing is for sure. Rock is not goign to get any better. Let's just let M.A.D go (Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey) and stick with Rock. then maybe TTB will be available in the future.

[SBXVII]

Stats a side, the team drills in the "versatility" among players issue. My issue is the fact people including the coach's want to comment on Mason's lack of playing special teams but want to over look Cartwright's lack of playing RB. As funny as you all think it sounds I think Mason is better then Rock maybe even better then Betts. Rock never gets positive yrds as a RB he gets lucky and breaks one for 30-40 yrds in a game when utilized as a RB during preseason against 2nd stringers. Mason lead the league in yrds against same said 2nds stringers. One would wonder why a RB in the league for 8yrs, according to ESPN, can't do better against 2nd stringers. Apparently he's not good of a RB.

Betts is not bad but is getting old which brings on the issue of injuries. Didn't he just sit out a preseason game due to one? I know it's only preseason and probably wants to heal prior to the season but the fact is he was nicked. At close to 30 yrs of age he's no spring chicken and the pounding will wear on his body just as it has Portis the last few yrs. Also can someone explain why the team is planning on using Betts as the third down back when on countless times he could not pick up 4th and 1 or 3rd and 2? Most of us on the boards screamed that Portis should have been getting those carries or Sellers.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Stats a side, the team drills in the "versatility" among players issue. My issue is the fact people including the coach's want to comment on Mason's lack of playing special teams but want to over look Cartwright's lack of playing RB. As funny as you all think it sounds I think Mason is better then Rock maybe even better then Betts. Rock never gets positive yrds as a RB he gets lucky and breaks one for 30-40 yrds in a game when utilized as a RB during preseason against 2nd stringers. Mason lead the league in yrds against same said 2nds stringers. One would wonder why a RB in the league for 8yrs, according to ESPN, can't do better against 2nd stringers. Apparently he's not good of a RB.

Betts is not bad but is getting old which brings on the issue of injuries. Didn't he just sit out a preseason game due to one? I know it's only preseason and probably wants to heal prior to the season but the fact is he was nicked. At close to 30 yrs of age he's no spring chicken and the pounding will wear on his body just as it has Portis the last few yrs. Also can someone explain why the team is planning on using Betts as the third down back when on countless times he could not pick up 4th and 1 or 3rd and 2? Most of us on the boards screamed that Portis should have been getting those carries or Sellers.

SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?

Good point. If we keep 4 backs not including Sellers. That may be a possibility. I just think if we could keep a 2 out of M.A.D. (mason, aldridge and Dorsey. We could possibly find a diamond in the rough who could possibly contribute on more than one unit.

That's my point of view.

Whether its Mason & Aldridge, Aldridge & Dorsey or Mason & Dorsey. We prepare for the future and could possibly find a replacement for Portis in a few years. So we can use our picks next year on OLs & LBs. If they dont pan out. We can draft a RB the next year. I just don't want what happened last year to happen again. Even if Portis gets hurt and Betts is still their. He will still need someone to fill in for him on some play. Also someone that can punch it in at the goal line. I just think versatility and looking to the future is key.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?

I'll be honest with you. It doesn't even have to be Mason so long as they have a young talent to bring up through the ranks. but I do take exception to people saying blatently ...Mason sucks. If he did the team would not have gone to the lengths they have to get him back. However since stats are important to some please locate Mason and Cartwright on this stat board which I feel is more accurate;

NFL Stats: by Player Category

I'll save you some time. Mason is 33rd on the list of rushers and Cartwright is 99th.

or try this one...

NFL Stats: by Player Category

The highest Skin on the Return list is Thomas at 23 and Cartwright is 68. My point is stats can be manipulated for whatever purpose. Since Rock has not been used as much this preseason in order to look at others lets look at last yrs stats....

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Rock was 225 on the list of Rushers for last yr. Obviously his leadership skills and tackling are carrying over to his rushing yrds. If he's such a good tackler why doesn't he fill in as Safety. I mean the team definitly needs a sure tackler in the back field.

Rock may have been 6th on ESPN's total yrds for the 08 season as a KR but NFL.com has him tied at 23 for average yrds 25.6 yrds average for every KR.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'll be honest with you. It doesn't even have to be Mason so long as they have a young talent to bring up through the ranks. but I do take exception to people saying blatently ...Mason sucks. If he did the team would not have gone to the lengths they have to get him back. However since stats are important to some please locate Mason and Cartwright on this stat board which I feel is more accurate;

NFL Stats: by Player Category

I'll save you some time. Mason is 33rd on the list of rushers and Cartwright is 99th.

or try this one...

NFL Stats: by Player Category

The highest Skin on the Return list is Thomas at 23 and Cartwright is 68. My point is stats can be manipulated for whatever purpose. Since Rock has not been used as much this preseason in order to look at others lets look at last yrs stats....

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Rock was 225 on the list of Rushers for last yr. Obviously his leadership skills and tackling are carrying over to his rushing yrds. If he's such a good tackler why doesn't he fill in as Safety. I mean the team definitly needs a sure tackler in the back field.

Rock may have been 6th on ESPN's total yrds for the 08 season as a KR but NFL.com has him tied at 23 for average yrds 25.6 yrds average for every KR.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

My point exactly. Maybe I didn't convey the message clearly. But that's what I mean. By saying stats are important but there are other factors. Age, Versatily (playing on more than one unit) and running ability...Rock is 29 yrs old. Betts 29 and Portis just turned 28.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'll be honest with you. It doesn't even have to be Mason so long as they have a young talent to bring up through the ranks. but I do take exception to people saying blatently ...Mason sucks. If he did the team would not have gone to the lengths they have to get him back. However since stats are important to some please locate Mason and Cartwright on this stat board which I feel is more accurate;

NFL Stats: by Player Category

I'll save you some time. Mason is 33rd on the list of rushers and Cartwright is 99th.

or try this one...

NFL Stats: by Player Category

The highest Skin on the Return list is Thomas at 23 and Cartwright is 68. My point is stats can be manipulated for whatever purpose. Since Rock has not been used as much this preseason in order to look at others lets look at last yrs stats....

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Rock was 225 on the list of Rushers for last yr. Obviously his leadership skills and tackling are carrying over to his rushing yrds. If he's such a good tackler why doesn't he fill in as Safety. I mean the team definitly needs a sure tackler in the back field.

Rock may have been 6th on ESPN's total yrds for the 08 season as a KR but NFL.com has him tied at 23 for average yrds 25.6 yrds average for every KR.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Another post related to stats..

[SBXVII]

Also exactly how much does Portis and Betts contribute on special teams. Since the bench mark is how much a player contributes on special teams.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also exactly how much does Portis and Betts contribute on special teams. Since the bench mark is how much a player contributes on special teams.

Someone has to play special teams, so if your 3rd running back is capable that is ideal. Although I do love Rock, and I see him as more valuable than most people commenting, I wouldnt be upset to see a change. Thomas looked great last week on KR's, and I think he has real "home-run" potential. Rock does play coverage units as well, but I cant believe someone else cannot step into that role. Everytime we hear about Betts looking good, he ends up coming up lame. He is a career backup, and I feel like Mason could fill his shoes, and he is younger. I havent been as impressed with Dorsey, although Id like to see someone supplant ARE at punt returner. Id like to see Alridge playing against some 1st-2nd stringers, he looked great against the guys that wont make the team.

[SBXVII]

I think if the team is happy with Thomas KRing then it doesn't matter if any RB can or can not KR. No different then none of the WR's actually KRed in the past except Moss and only on an emergency basis.

[tootergray34]

if the redskins had the right idea they would pick up the damn phone and call nemo broughton. best RB ever.

[Paintrain]

Only late in the preseason can there be a 40 post debate about our 3rd and 4th string RB, lol.

Here's my take, unless Aldridge really struggles, fumbles or gets injured tonight he's on the team. He becomes a Leon Washington type player, not a true backup in the true sense of the word to replace Betts, not a 3rd on the depth chart guy lock Rock. He's a change of pace player, getting 5-8 snaps a game with the hopes that he make a big play. By Vinny saying 5 backs (including Sellers) are likely means that it will be Rock plus either Mason, Dorsey or Aldridge.

If it were purely about the 3rd RB position, then Mason would probably beat out Rock because he's a better RB than Rock is, but Rock is that guy who does a little bit of everything on ST well and you can't replace him with a guy who doesn't play ST.

[SmootSmack]

I have a gut feeling that one of these four guys is going to get cut-Yoder, Sellers, Rock, Betts

I'm not advocating it, just a gut feeling.

I'll throw in Scott Burely and Doug Dutch just to feel more secure in my gut feeling