Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...

[dmek25]

I'm just using TV as an example. what if the poor have a nice car? or nice clothes? do you guys think they should suffer without just for health care? whatever happened to scratching each others backs?

[724Skinsfan]

What are the statistics anyway regarding how much of a burden the poor are on our health care? It seems to me the people getting screwed are the ones that have family members who are suffering from terminal diseases or at least conditions that take a long time to treat. What's the % of people living in the ghetto that are suffering from various forms of cancer? Probably the same as middle class America. What's the cost of buying the drugs?

Forget the "Great American TV" debate. That's not the issue. If the cable company charges $65/month for it's services, what healthcare plan can a family buy that costs that little? I mean, you're probably looking at what $250-$400 a month for a family health care plan.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dmek25

people that cannot afford health care live a life of hope. the hope that nothing happens to them or a family member. to a hard working family that just cant make it, to begrudge them something that might be able to give them a little pleasure in an otherwise sucky life is ridiculous

I think you are confusing "can not" and "will not". If a guy can afford the luxury of $40-$100 for TV per month, he can certainly afford healthcare, and more importantly, SHOULD afford healthcare.

These are basic simple decisions in life:
Do I buy beer, or do I buy my baby formula...FORMULA.
Do I go buy a movie or two, or do I buy diapers...DIAPERS.
Do I buy drugs, or do I buy food for my family...FOOD.
Do I buy DirecTV (or cable), or do I buy healthcare...HEALTHCARE.

If these people need someone like me to spell it out for them, then they really should be put on an island somewhere and disposed of.

These people are taking a gamble and using "I can't afford it" as an excuse. Sure, a lot of people have low incomes, but that means you should live a modest life. This isn't rocket science. Problem is, there are so many people that will tell them everyone else is doing better, therefore those people should help. When in actuality, people should be telling this guy to get an education or work hard to advance or something like that.
You need to ask yourself, how many truely hard workers are making only $5.75 an hour (that's fed. min. wage)? I don't know a single honest hard working person that makes that. The hard workers will move up somewhere and make more money. Even nurses aids (who wipe butt for living) START at around $8-$8.50 or more per hour. The lazy people of the world, and the complainers with their hands out make that, and have no chance of moving up the chain. It's time for everyone to stop blaming others for their mistakes, and stop expecting others to help them out. Take responsibility for their actions.
I knew a guy (I played softball with him) he went from job to job and was into drugs. He felt that he was given the shaft in his life and that people like myself were born with a silver spoon in my mouth (not knowing, or care to know the truth). He was so caught up in his own wrong ideas that he was very lazy and didn't want to work hard to get ahead. One day he took a general labor job at $10/hr that he had to get clean for...If I recall it was helping with paving roads, literally digging ditches. Everyone told him, just try working hard for them and see what happens. The job sucked, but he busted his ass every day, and he's now the supervisor making around 50k a year. This is not uncommon to get this kind of opportunity...it all comes down to the willingness to work hard. I didn't get where I am by being lazy, and neither did the majority of the people on this website. People tell me, "well you have a master's degree to fall back on"...they are right, I do, but I sucked it up and busted my ass to get that degree. I had no money, and hated school, but I gave an all out effort so I could have that degree to fall back on today.
Sure we all fall on bad times, some will see it as a challenge and give a solid effort and others will fold up shop.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

What are the statistics anyway regarding how much of a burden the poor are on our health care? It seems to me the people getting screwed are the ones that have family members who are suffering from terminal diseases or at least conditions that take a long time to treat. What's the % of people living in the ghetto that are suffering from various forms of cancer? Probably the same as middle class America. What's the cost of buying the drugs?

Forget the "Great American TV" debate. That's not the issue. If the cable company charges $65/month for it's services, what healthcare plan can a family buy that costs that little? I mean, you're probably looking at what $250-$400 a month for a family health care plan.

My job has family healthcare at $139 per month for families. Sure it's not $65 for cable, but if you take $65 and subtract it from $139, that's $74. Now where else can a person cut costs? Stop drinking beer, stop smoking or doing dip, some that are into drugs should stop that etc. How about use less electricity? Shut off the TV and go to library and read some books?
How many people can you honestly think of do all those things and work hard for living???
There are always ways to cut costs.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dmek25

I'm just using TV as an example. what if the poor have a nice car? or nice clothes? do you guys think they should suffer without just for health care? whatever happened to scratching each others backs?

How are they scratching ours? By sucking off us? By not being responsible for their actions? How are they paying society back, or how will they pay society back?
This is simple, if they have a nice car...SELL IT. Get an average car that works and will take you from point A to point B.
A long time ago, I worked for Schwan's (hated that job)...for those that don't know, Schwan's is food company that sells their product door to door. The truck is a giant freezer. I would go to homes that had better cars than me, better homes than me, they dressed VERY well, and they would pay me with food stamps. That irritated the hell out of me.
We as a society do not preach self responsibility. It's a shame.

You question of "should they suffer without just for healthcare?" Well, if they want to gamble and not have healthcare, then that is THEIR GAMBLE. Not mine. No one has the responsibility to help someone else just because they worked harder to get where they are.

Everyone that thinks that you should, good for you. Take everyone that thinks your way, pool all your money together and help them. No one is stopping you. Why insist that others need to take their hard earned money to help those that don't want to help themselves? I don't actually see you developing an organization to help these people...stop pushing your beliefs on us that feel it's their responsibility, not ours. Assuming every democrat thought the way you did, then all of you should get together and pool your extra money. Hell, you should cut back all your expenses too just to pay for those that don't have healthcare. Good luck with that.

[djnemo65]

Finally, the intelligent debate on health care you can't get in the liberal media. Indeed, the problem with America's system isn't spiraling costs, it isn't lack of available coverage for the already ill, it isn't limited or no coverage for the poor, IT'S CABLE TV. Why aren't the politicians talking about this? If Joe 6 pack would just sell his truck and cancel cable our health problems would be solved!

And Jsarno, seriously, how are you going to say you have a site arguing how good McD's health coverage is and then post McDonald's own site? Seriously, I swear you are a troll sometimes laughing at my expense.

[dmek25]

let me see. i know a guy that made all the wrong decisions in life, so the people that are really trying to better themselves, but just cant turn the corner, guess what? people like jsarno says screw you. he has everything he needs. so you guys are on your own. i cant believe how selfish some people are. its probably because i started out without, that i know there are people out there that want to succeed, but just cant. it seems like people that start out pampered, are definitely less compassionate for our fellow man

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I will never argue about Wal Mart...they are the worst at making everything as low cost to themselves as possible to have their products at the lowest prices possible for consumers. They do not take care of their employees.



Here is a site that talks about the coverage McDonalds employees get. It's very good coverage.
Health and Protection

Fact still remains, people have the ability to get the insurance, if they choose not to, that's their own fault and should not be my responsibility to take of it for them.

Great source there



C'mon dude that's mad weak, you've gotta be joking

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by jsarno

My job has family healthcare at $139 per month for families. Sure it's not $65 for cable, but if you take $65 and subtract it from $139, that's $74. Now where else can a person cut costs? Stop drinking beer, stop smoking or doing dip, some that are into drugs should stop that etc. How about use less electricity? Shut off the TV and go to library and read some books?
How many people can you honestly think of do all those things and work hard for living???
There are always ways to cut costs.

The thing is, the issue of affordable health care isn't limited to those who put entertainment before health. Try being diabetic and trying to find affordable health care. Not every business provides a company health care plan, and those who do provide it charge double the amount that yours charges you for family coverage. For instance, family coverage for my place of business is over $300 a pay period.

While I disagree with a government based health care plan, I do believe families should be able to have their choice of affordable private insurance.

And to add, I also believe individuals who are born with diseases such as diabetes or other diseases shouldn't be penalized because of their reliance medication to stay alive.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

I'm just using TV as an example. what if the poor have a nice car? or nice clothes? do you guys think they should suffer without just for health care? whatever happened to scratching each others backs?

Whether or not cable TV is to blame for our healthcare situation, and it's obviously not because this discussion was just meant to illustrate a point, your line of thinking is incredibly irresponsible.

I absolutely refuse to give one red cent to anyone who tells me they can't afford health insurance, but can afford cable TV, or a half decent car, or half decent clothes. Why should I scratch that person's back? They're not doing everything they can to help themselves, so why should I help them?

It's not much different from the bum on the street who begs you for a dollar so he can eat lunch, and then turns around and buys booze with it.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

The thing is, the issue of affordable health care isn't limited to those who put entertainment before health. Try being diabetic and trying to find affordable health care. Not every business provides a company health care plan, and those who do provide it charge double the amount that yours charges you for family coverage. For instance, family coverage for my place of business is over $300 a pay period.

While I disagree with a government based health care plan, I do believe families should be able to have their choice of affordable private insurance.

And to add, I also believe individuals who are born with diseases such as diabetes or other diseases shouldn't be penalized because of their reliance medication to stay alive.

This I agree with to a point.

Because my employer is large, has a high number of employees, and is in the healthcare provider business, top-notch coverage is only $90 a paycheck. I'm in a very fortunate situation. I do agree that it's bullshit that somebody who works for a small company has to shell out $300, $500, or $700 a paycheck for the same coverage.

We're buying the same product, why should the price be so different.

So if there's one thing the government can do without harming the quality of care delivered, it's mandate that pricing be consistent for all walks of life. A PPO (great coverage) should cost X for everyone. A HMO (alright coverage) should cost Y for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. But at least it's priced fairly that way.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

let me see. i know a guy that made all the wrong decisions in life, so the people that are really trying to better themselves, but just cant turn the corner, guess what? people like jsarno says screw you. he has everything he needs. so you guys are on your own. i cant believe how selfish some people are. its probably because i started out without, that i know there are people out there that want to succeed, but just cant. it seems like people that start out pampered, are definitely less compassionate for our fellow man

If a person hasn't turned the corner, but has a nice car, or nice clothes, or cable TV, they don't deserve any help.

If they're doing everything they can, then I'm all about helping. Problem is, for every one person you find who is genuinely trying, you find 9 others who have the cable TV, or the nice car, or the nice clothes, and yet still have their hands out.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This I agree with to a point.

Because my employer is large, has a high number of employees, and is in the healthcare provider business, top-notch coverage is only $90 a paycheck. I'm in a very fortunate situation. I do agree that it's bullshit that somebody who works for a small company has to shell out $300, $500, or $700 a paycheck for the same coverage.

We're buying the same product, why should the price be so different.

So if there's one thing the government can do without harming the quality of care delivered, it's mandate that pricing be consistent for all walks of life. A PPO (great coverage) should cost X for everyone. A HMO (alright coverage) should cost Y for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. But at least it's priced fairly that way.

I think you're seeing it basically the way I do. I realize it takes a lot of money for research in health care in order to find new treatments and cures for diseases that we face today. I realize that money has to come from somewhere. At the same time, all the research and discovers in modern medicine isn't going to do any good if nobody can afford to use it.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

And Jsarno, seriously, how are you going to say you have a site arguing how good McD's health coverage is and then post McDonald's own site? Seriously, I swear you are a troll sometimes laughing at my expense.

The point was to show what McDonalds offers. I was told by Matty that McD. has poor coverage, that link shows they have good coverage. Failing to see your point here.
I never said I had a site that shows how great McD's coverage is, just that because they are a big company they can offer good coverage. I proved my point with the link.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

The point was to show what McDonalds offers. I was told by Matty that McD. has poor coverage, that link shows they have good coverage. Failing to see your point here.
I never said I had a site that shows how great McD's coverage is, just that because they are a big company they can offer good coverage. I proved my point with the link.

I think people would have found your link less peculiar if you had just come right out and said "Here is a link to the official McDonald's site, showing the coverage they offer"