Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

No disrespect Matty but out of the group of receivers you mention in this post, Moss is the only proven home run threat. Defensive coordinators do not game plan for Garcon, but they had better account for Santana Moss when he is on the field.

When was the last time Moss broke free for a long touchdown of over 50 yards? 2008 punt return against Detroit? Moss is no longer the speedy young wideout capable of taking the top off a defense, and all the drops he had last year indicate the game is catching up to him. If he was, the Redskins wouldn't have sought an upgrade at wideout.

[REDSKINS4ever]

It does appear that the Redskins are all set at wide receiver. But if someone is still available somewhere in the draft that Bruce Allen or Mike Shanahan likes, then they will draft that player if they feel he can contribute to the offense or special teams in some way.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mooby

When was the last time Moss broke free for a long touchdown of over 50 yards? 2008 punt return against Detroit? Moss is no longer the speedy young wideout capable of taking the top off a defense, and all the drops he had last year indicate the game is catching up to him. If he was, the Redskins wouldn't have sought an upgrade at wideout.

2009 vs. Tampa Bay. A week after doing it in Detroit.

It's been about that long since Moss was a guy you design plays for.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

2009 vs. Tampa Bay. A week after doing it in Detroit.

It's been about that long since Moss was a guy you design plays for.

If nothing else, he should be an average possession receiver at this point in his career but I wouldn't even trust him to do that with all the drops he had last year. Sometimes it looked like he was just half assing it out there. Unless Griffin comes in and reignites the fire under his ass I don't see him being a #1 or even a #2 this season.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

2009 vs. Tampa Bay. A week after doing it in Detroit.

It's been about that long since Moss was a guy you design plays for.

If you'll recall, Moss caught a 49 yard TD last year vs New England. In 2010, according to NFL.com statistics, Moss caught a pass for 56 yards. Whether that went for a TD or not, I'm not certain.

[GTripp0012]

His catch rate dropped by 20% last year, even though Grossman's completion percentage wasn't measurably different from 2010 McNabb. Moss is still excellent at finding the void in the zone, but he's no longer excellent at bringing the ball in when open.

It's been about six years since he was able to beat a team's top corner in man-to-man without a schemed double-move and anticipation throw by his quarterback. The way to make Santana Moss an effective receiver again is to make him a secondary or tertiary option in the passing game that will draw the opponents third corner, or a soft corner with limited safety help.

Unfortunately, that description kind of fits Garcon as well.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by mooby

When was the last time Moss broke free for a long touchdown of over 50 yards? 2008 punt return against Detroit? Moss is no longer the speedy young wideout capable of taking the top off a defense, and all the drops he had last year indicate the game is catching up to him. If he was, the Redskins wouldn't have sought an upgrade at wideout.

Last year he had 49 yard TD catch.

But, it really isn't Tana's role any more to be a vertical WR he's much more of a slot guy now.
And 50 yard TD is kinda an arbitrary measure of performance.

40+ yard pass plays are rare enough and those are actually recorded.
So rather then go from memory Tana had 3 40+ yard pass plays in 2010 which tied him with Dez Bryant, Jacoby Ford, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

If you'll recall, Moss caught a 49 yard TD last year vs New England. In 2010, according to NFL.com statistics, Moss caught a pass for 56 yards. Whether that went for a TD or not, I'm not certain.

I don't remember the 2010 one, but the 49 yard one last year was on a trick play where he was so open that Banks missed the target by about 8 yards and he still scored.

Moss actually had a bunch of long ones in 2010, so I stand corrected on how recently Moss has been able to run away from DBs. Four plays in excess of 30 yards, which is a good season.

I think the quality of Moss' 2010 season was vastly overrated, but it was by far his best campaign in the last four or five.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think the quality of Moss' 2010 season was vastly overrated, but it was by far his best campaign in the last four or five.

I don't get the sense that his 2010 was overrated at all being that most people don't remember his production and seem eager to see him gone.

I think breaking his hand had a lot to do with the drop in his catch rate.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't get the sense that his 2010 was overrated at all being that most people don't remember his production and seem eager to see him gone.

Well, it was more an "at the time" thing. In the context of who Santana Moss has been since 2007 -- a guy who was behind Antwaan Randle El in the third down progression -- his 2011 season was disappointing (in terms of catch rate), but not totally or inexcusably below expectation.

I think you hit it on the head when you allude to the fact that the difference between Moss in 2010 and Moss in 2011 is health and natural aging. I just happen to disagree on which season was the aberration. I think Moss was in rare health in 2010, which allowed him to be effective late in the season and hit marks in receptions and yards and touchdowns that he hadn't hit since earlier in his career. Also putting a lot more "good" tape out there in the process.

Which caused the Redskins to vastly overpay him that offseason.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you hit it on the head when you allude to the fact that the difference between Moss in 2010 and Moss in 2011 is health and natural aging. I just happen to disagree on which season was the aberration. I think Moss was in rare health in 2010, which allowed him to be effective late in the season and hit marks in receptions and yards and touchdowns that he hadn't hit since earlier in his career. Also putting a lot more "good" tape out there in the process.

Which caused the Redskins to vastly overpay him that offseason.

I don't think they vastly overpaid him in 2010, did they have a slight soft spot for their own talent? I would agree that the guaranteed money suggests that.

We just see Tana differently then.
Tana has been the primary WR for most of his tenure as a Redskins without much help from his WRs corps and consequently teams could double him as they saw fit and he has still been a productive WR.
2010 was an example of what Tana could do in scheme that doesn't allow him to doubled easily.

This past season he broke his hand and imo that limited his production (and the production of the passing offense in his absence) moreso then his age.
Prior to the signing of Garcon/Morgan I would have thought that Moss could have continued near his 2010 level of production if he maintained the same role within the offense.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't think they vastly overpaid him in 2010, did they have a slight soft spot for their own talent? I would agree that the guaranteed money suggests that.

We just see Tana differently then.
Tana has been the primary WR for most of his tenure as a Redskins without much help from his WRs corps and consequently teams could double him as they saw fit and he has still been a productive WR.
2010 was an example of what Tana could do in scheme that doesn't allow him to doubled easily.

This past season he broke his hand and imo that limited his production (and the production of the passing offense in his absence) moreso then his age.
Prior to the signing of Garcon/Morgan I would have thought that Moss could have continued near his 2010 level of production if he maintained the same role within the offense.

The Eagles always use a deep safety to take Moss away because 1) it limits the Redskins offensive potential, and 2) their best CB (Samuel) was never a man-to-man guy.

But the Giants have just put Corey Webster on Moss in each one of the last 8 matchups, and prior to his TD against them this year (against Amukamara/blwon coverage), just effectively erased him and reduced him to a guy throwing his fists around. Webster typically doesn't even get a safety over the top, he just erases Moss from the stat sheet entirely one on one.

And obviously, Dallas never did figure out how they could slow him down, hence his reputation as a Cowboys killer. Then again, Dallas hasn't really slowed down any other receivers either. Either way, I don't think it's accurate to say he's constantly doubled. The Eagles, sure, but the Eagles are a zone team so someone is getting the deep safety no matter who they are playing.

I don't disagree with your point that Kyle's offense presented Moss with additional opportunities to draw one on one matchups, plus matchups against zone, which was a partial (arguably large) reason for his relatively successful 2010 season. I do however question the wisdom of giving those opportunities to Moss.

Of course, I also question the wisdom of these two WR signings, so maybe I'm just trying to have it both ways. Call me on that if you must, but I will say that I saw the Colts start to develop plays to bring Garcon out of the slot last year to get more favorable matchups, so it's possible that Garcon is going to replace Moss outright, now that Royal isn't in the fold.

Of all the (non-Moss) WRs on our roster, Garcon actually has the most experience coming out of the slot, which he did a few times last year.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But the Giants have just put Corey Webster on Moss in each one of the last 8 matchups, and prior to his TD against them this year (against Amukamara/blwon coverage), just effectively erased him and reduced him to a guy throwing his fists around. Webster typically doesn't even get a safety over the top, he just erases Moss from the stat sheet entirely one on one.

Perry Fewell is a cover 2 coach hence the Giants rarely leave their CBs on an island.

I'm not sure I disagree with anything else in your post.

[GTripp0012]

Testing

[skinsfan69]

Hopefully we don't take any wr's. The funny thing is Shanahan wanted to bring in ANOTHER wr in Royal. I will never understand this organizations obsession with wr's.