McNabb a REDSKIN!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

when i look at the trade, i look at it in terms of what we'd have used our 2nd round pick on.

1. I certainly like McNabb over any QB we could have drafted at 37 for several reasons - We traded MUCH more to acquire Jason Campbell and looked how that turned out for us. After 5 years, we've gotten nothing from the deal. McNabb will start immediately and play at a high level for 3-4 years. We have every reason to expect McNabb to play better than any QB we've had in almost 20 years.

2. If we hadnt drafted McNabb and stayed at 4 and 37, we very likely would have gone Clausen at 4 and an OT at 37. Now, if we stay at 4, we very likely will go Okung/Bulaga at 4. NO sane person is going to say that Clausen and a 2nd round OT is a better tandem than Okung/Bulaga and McNabb.

3. Bradford and Clausen are both vastly overrated in my opinion. Taking a gamble on either of them would have been very very risky.

4. We all knew that Campbell was not going to be the long-term QB of this team. By signing Mcnabb, we've taken the top QB available via trade off the market. By all appearances, the Rams are going to take Bradford. Somebody will take a gamble on Clausen. That leaves other teams wanting a franchise QB left with three choices: Jason Campbell, Colt McCoy, or Tim Tebow. McCoy and Tebow are long-term projects. Campbell can start right away. It may seem counterintuitive, but by signing McNabb, I think we've dramatically increased Campbells trade value. I'd be shocked if Campbell didn't yield a low 2nd or high 3rd rounder at this point.

5. This is the best yet - Bradford will freefall if he doesnt sign a contract with the Rams prior to the draft.... which means he'll sign with the Rams and be the #1 overall selection in the draft. That means one of Okung, McCoy, or Suh will be available at 4. If its Suh or McCoy, then SOMEONE is going to want to trade with us for the #4 pick. By signing McNabb, we've almost ensured that we can move out of the #4 pick and acquire more picks in the draft.

Lets look at the situation before and after this trade.

BEFORE: Jason Campbell, two picks in the first three rounds.

AFTER: Donovan McNabb and likely trades yielding atleast three picks in the first 3 rounds.

BOTTOM LINE: When we look back on this trade in context, the Skins did very very very well here. Its what Michael Scott would call a "WIN/WIN/WIN." Kudos to Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan here.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

That's my point, I didn't cherry-pick this, it was BIG NEWS. And I haven't talked to all that many people, but I haven't found one who would tell me in private that they liked it.

Keep in mind that it's far from a foregone conclusion that the Eagles will come out ahead, and I don't think anyone is saying that they love the McNabb trade inside the division from the Eagles perspective. I haven't heard that, at least. But the Eagles got good compensation for a player they weren't going to use anyway, and that's hard to argue.

Yeah, I hear you....I think another thing people may be forgetting I still believe there is a possibility of us drafting a QB still, just not with that #4 pick (unless Bradford would fall, that would be heaven sent but unrealistic). I still think we acquire a couple draft pics to get in a 3rd, 2nd round slot and then maybe grab a QB there.

[diehardskin2982]

^it is a foregone conclusion we will draft a lineman.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Are these experts as accomplished as Mike Shanahan and Allen? A lot of the ESPN guys have even mentioned positives for Washington on this trade which surprised me.

One thing that I haven't heard, "Washington is going to be missing a great leader once Campbell is traded".

No, in fact, none of them are half as accomplished as Andy Reid, who is feeling pretty darn loose this morning after planting McNabb on the Skins.

Reid>Shanahan.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I didn't say that. I said people are not doing their homework, and it's creating a huge gap in opinion that you just don't see normally with all the information available. To me, it's staggering, because opinion tends to be quite split among NFL analysts. The last time I can remember a consensus was that awful Delhomme extension. Even Favre coming back was split between people who thought he'd take the Vikings to the SB, and people who thought he was useless (I was in the latter category).

I'm not pushing personal opinion to be something bigger than it is. I'm just saying that it's incredibly rare for the voices of the masses to seem so far off. In fact, just yesterday, 70% of the Warpath was against McNabb here. Now, 66% are for it. You want to tell me what part of McNabb's game improved last night to make 150 Warpathers change their minds?

We're talking about a division rival so I expect most people voted no just because they thought it wouldn't happen.

Now that it's a reality people change their tune. Happens all the time, just look at the post healthcare polls. Overnight the polls in favor of it went up.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Not meaning to insult your opinion but you're NUTS. You're talking about a guy that didn't play in a pro offense in college...and in one year he's going to be better than a 34/35 year old professional NFL QB that has a long successful resume that's a boderline fringe HOF QB? No freakin' way. Colt McCoy = Alex Smith.

Donovan McNabb = Jake Delhomme. If that's the game you want to play.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Not meaning to insult your opinion but you're NUTS. You're talking about a guy that didn't play in a pro offense in college...and in one year he's going to be better than a 34/35 year old professional NFL QB that has a long successful resume that's a boderline fringe HOF QB? No freakin' way. Colt McCoy = Alex Smith.

I don't think McCoy is the next Alex Smith, for one thing he won't have the pressure that Smith faced.

However I agree that McNabb will be better than McCoy in 2011.

If McCoy sneaks into the first round he is probably being taken by a good team who already has a QB. My guess is that McCoy doesn't see the field in 10. If he is playing in 11 he is making all the stupid rookie mistakes that all first year QB's make.

GTripp has been against this before it even happened and is just being consistent. At this point he seems a lot like Sysyphus because McNabb is here and Jason will be gone.

Mike Shanahan knows more about offensive football than all of us, more than anyone that any of us have talked to and more than any of the "experts" in the national media. McNabb is the Mastermind's guy and in Mike Shanahan I trust.

Now that QB is off the list of needs, let's fix that O-line.

[johno]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

when i look at the trade, i look at it in terms of what we'd have used our 2nd round pick on.

1. I certainly like McNabb over any QB we could have drafted at 37 for several reasons - We traded MUCH more to acquire Jason Campbell and looked how that turned out for us. After 5 years, we've gotten nothing from the deal. McNabb will start immediately and play at a high level for 3-4 years. We have every reason to expect McNabb to play better than any QB we've had in almost 20 years.

2. If we hadnt drafted McNabb and stayed at 4 and 37, we very likely would have gone Clausen at 4 and an OT at 37. Now, if we stay at 4, we very likely will go Okung/Bulaga at 4. NO sane person is going to say that Clausen and a 2nd round OT is a better tandem than Okung/Bulaga and McNabb.

3. Bradford and Clausen are both vastly overrated in my opinion. Taking a gamble on either of them would have been very very risky.

4. We all knew that Campbell was not going to be the long-term QB of this team. By signing Mcnabb, we've taken the top QB available via trade off the market. By all appearances, the Rams are going to take Bradford. Somebody will take a gamble on Clausen. That leaves other teams wanting a franchise QB left with three choices: Jason Campbell, Colt McCoy, or Tim Tebow. McCoy and Tebow are long-term projects. Campbell can start right away. It may seem counterintuitive, but by signing McNabb, I think we've dramatically increased Campbells trade value. I'd be shocked if Campbell didn't yield a low 2nd or high 3rd rounder at this point.

5. This is the best yet - Bradford will freefall if he doesnt sign a contract with the Rams prior to the draft.... which means he'll sign with the Rams and be the #1 overall selection in the draft. That means one of Okung, McCoy, or Suh will be available at 4. If its Suh or McCoy, then SOMEONE is going to want to trade with us for the #4 pick. By signing McNabb, we've almost ensured that we can move out of the #4 pick and acquire more picks in the draft.

Lets look at the situation before and after this trade.

BEFORE: Jason Campbell, two picks in the first three rounds.

AFTER: Donovan McNabb and likely trades yielding atleast three picks in the first 3 rounds.

BOTTOM LINE: When we look back on this trade in context, the Skins did very very very well here. Its what Michael Scott would call a "WIN/WIN/WIN." Kudos to Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan here.

Great post BHA, and a solid Office reference to boot.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

^it is a foregone conclusion we will draft a lineman.

Yeah I can't see us passing on Okung now, or taking extra picks in a trade down if that presented itself. Either way, I think we come out of this draft with at least 2 OL.

[SirClintonPortis]

HomerMcFanboy » finishing up with the football outsiders
Even in a well-argued pro-JC piece, JC still was "not there yet".

“I think, when you’re talking about dropped passes, it really depends on the offense,” Farrar said. “We don’t want to say that Campbell would automatically be a Hall of Famer if he was in the perfect circumstances. There are things he needs to work on still. One of the things I saw when I watched film was a tendency to bail on a play and not stick with it until its logical ending. Meaning, basically, there are times when he makes a throw before he should. For example, one stat we tracked was he averaged 5.86 per attempt on third and eight or more. That’s obviously not going to get the job done.

“One of the things that separates the great quarterbacks is the ability to stay in the pocket for that extra second or that extra touch they can put on a pass so that the ball is in the perfect location when that receivers turns, with the ball right over his back shoulder,” he continued. “Campbell’s not there yet. I don’t blame him entirely, because this offense is all about time and rhythm and was new to everyone last season. A bulk of the dropped passes were the receivers’ fault, but some of them were Campbell’s fault as well. Yeah, the amount of drops was a problem, but it doesn’t stand out as much as a guy like Edwards or Terrell Owens – where a team has one marquee guy who does it a lot.

So, should we wait another 4 years until he's 32 for him to acquire these skills?
Yeah, Tripp don't falsely accuse ME of being "uninformed" when I'm just rehashing this dude's words when saying Campbell's pocket presence stinks. This article was the came to mind when I was watching Gradkowski.

[over the mountain]

gtripp, relax man. grab a dodgeball and plunk some punk kid in his head.

we dont have to analyze and cement our opinions on this trade today. we dont have to line up all the experts that like it and dont like it. it happened and is done with. barring a trade of mcnabb, hes our starting qb for the next few years which just doesnt feel right.

we dont have to prove our opinion is right and all others are wrong. everyone right now is assuming and guessing and, as a fan base, hoping for the best.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're hardly making an apples to apples comparison, but I'd say that Colt McCoy will be a better player than McNabb by 2011. I don't know if McCoy will make it to 37 though.

Bad call.

Also, not sure who your "sources" are but if they're guys who analyze stats and have no playing/coaching/scouting experience at any level, their opinions are just like everyone elses.....opinions. Not saying you have to play/coach/scout to have an informed opinion, but it gives a perspective media and stats guys don't necessarily have.

I'll take the opinion of MS, KS, and Bruce Allen over them any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I also respect Jaws' analysis, here's what he said: "Donovan knows how to win football games. The Redskins’ confidence level has to be going through the roof right now." — Former Eagles QB Ron Jaworski, now an ESPN analyst.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We're talking about a division rival so I expect most people voted no just because they thought it wouldn't happen.

Now that it's a reality people change their tune. Happens all the time, just look at the post healthcare polls. Overnight the polls in favor of it went up.

I think that's exactly it. I think now that people are emotionally invested in it, they're seeing the other side.

I have not talked to anyone who would be emotionally invested in either side, outside of people on TheWarpath this morning. The arguments I keep reading here are that we're a lot better today, and that we didn't give up all that much. Both of those arguments are demonstrably false, and I thought Joyner's article showed as much, even if I believe a lot of his statistics (and by extension analysis) are arbitrary. I can do an analysis that makes Skins come out a little bit better, but ultimately, his 273 yard figure is a pretty darn good estimate of an expected production increase. It's hardly guarenteed that we'll get an increase at all.

I'd like to hear someone make the argument that just a small increase in production can go a long way. To me, trying to argue that we've fallen into this great upgrade is being disingenuous to ourselves. Let's focus on possible reason that this upgrade is better than it appears on paper. I don't see that, but I could be overlooking something.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Donovan McNabb = Jake Delhomme. If that's the game you want to play.

Your point is not valid cause McNabb is better and has always been better than Delhomme. You're saying a college QB that didn't play in a pro style offense, that has limited arm strength is going to better in one year than a proven winning borderline HOF QB. Sorry but your statement doesn't hold up very well.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We're talking about a division rival so I expect most people voted no just because they thought it wouldn't happen.

Now that it's a reality people change their tune. Happens all the time, just look at the post healthcare polls. Overnight the polls in favor of it went up.

I agree. I think most people thought Phi would move DM just not to the Skins. IMO, this is the classic example of a team getting rid of a player a yer too soon rather than a year too late. I wish the Skins would learn how to do that.